New Technology Baffles Peeved Old Liberal


Yes, even him.

Warning: Contains the phrase ‘As the natives might put it, LOL’.

Vast Online Community Should Run Internet (Fintan O’Toole, Irish Times)

Best comment so far?

Previously: Old media Now Completely Freaking Out


55 thoughts on “New Technology Baffles Peeved Old Liberal

  1. Albertus

    “We comment with great vehemence on things we know absolutely nothing about.

    We bully and abuse others, especially if they are female: sexist, racist and homophobic language pours out in torrents.

    We spread slander with hardly a thought and with no limits”

    Enough about the Irish Times, get on with the internet thing.

    1. Bumps

      exactly what I was thinking…plus with the Irish Times you get several free helpings of moral superiority.

  2. Just sayin'

    Not a fan of him, but he has a point. This “independent journalist” nonsense is a bit naff – they mostly just recycle original stories from the traditional media.

    I’m sure most of us would be a little more careful with our comments if our photo and full name appeared next to them.

    1. Paul Moloney

      “This “independent journalist” nonsense is a bit naff – they mostly just recycle original stories from the traditional media.”

      I don’t think that’s strictly true; there’s are just the news collation services, to be sure, but the internet does turn up people who aren’t journalists but are knowledgeable in particular fields and willing to do expert, dogged research on particular stories.


  3. "everything in moderation - except net modding"

    And, conversely, that the absence of formal and informal sanctions (the law on the one side, and shame on the other) allows people to indulge their worst selves.

    “everything in moderation – except vital net modding”

  4. Sido

    I’d love a chance to be safely unjust – but I can’t help thinking a keyboard is the wrong way of going about it.

    At another level Fintan is a mouth piece for the 1%, a professional shiller.

    No reports yet from those Guardians of the Civil Society (The Old Media) – on how the collection of names for the New Poll Tax is going – perhaps it’s not worth reporting.

    1. C Sharp

      Burn him!

      I find the guy irritating, but saying he is a mouthpiece for the 1% is a pile of shite.

      Why is everything a black and white issue these days?

  5. hoopla

    people’s actions on the internet are always open to interpretation by others.

    i read of an Australian security consultant who changed one number in the URL of his logged in fund account and was taken in the account of his colleague, no new passwords, login or anything needed.

    the funds response for him doing the decent thing and telling them? they threatened to take his computer, fine him the cost of fixing their issues and froze his accounts.

    (anyone interested can google patrick+webster+first+state+super )

    so what if someone is so immature that they think that being sexist is funny? i have no problem with that and will return to b1tch-slap them as soon as i can be bothered.

    o’Toole is well named. i bet him and Kevin ” i know nothing about the internet but am going to write about it anyway” have lovely little bro-mance chats about how wonderful they are and how dreadful the internet is. good luck to them. the auld ignorant bores.

  6. bisted

    ….well, thanks to Fintan and Wikipedia I now know all about Gyges of Lydia….should come in useful at some future quiz….hold on….the internet has killed off thye pub quiz….doh!

  7. Ferret McGruber

    It is the unlimate irony that the establishment always trot out the ‘but they’re not accountable’ line when it comes to Anonymous, online postings and the internet in general.

    Not accountable. Not accountable.

    1. Continuity Jay-Z

      for examples of non-accuntability see ‘Magda’ and ‘Kate’. Print media is just a zombified corpse. The standard of garbage being pedalled on it proves as much.

  8. Yer man there

    Difference of opinions aside, anyone else think this is a poorly written article? Reminds me of those rushed English essays due in on Monday morning but you start it at midnight on a Sunday.

  9. Dave

    You can’t really steal ‘torrents’ you use torrents to ‘steal’. Fintan needs to brush up on the Internets.

      1. cluster

        If he knew the double meaning he would have been more careful, you would think.

        He is a decent columnist but often writes pure garbage on fields of which he has no knowledge whatsoever. He wrote a piece linking nuclear power, finance and engineering a while ago which was embarrasing in its logic and the lack of understanding. You could make a case for his conclusion but he wasn’t able to.

  10. well

    To comment on the previous article, crosbie holding publishes the irish examiner, which regularly runs terry prones columns and now rte which is run by terry’s husband is publish articles by the chairman of Crosby holdings.

    Meanwhile terry herself has ranted against the net in the past and her most recent column was against the freedom of information act.

    the independent and the Irish times are in on it too, all in the past few weeks publishing articles calling for the control of online media, they can smell their deaths coming and they wont go without a fight.

    1. paul m

      the internet was supposed to be the death of tv and radio yet they’re still here. the smartest in media will adapt (see BBC on how they had to develop a commercial strategy to fund their online content, as it isn’t covered under the broadcasting handout they get from the government), google is pushing into TV encouraging traditional media to create content for it and apple have the telly in its sights too.

      print isn’t dead. look at the kindle, the ipad. more often than not people are using these to catch up on news interspersing traditional media sources with new media content. the times is adapting it just hasn’t found a way to monetise its content as per the BBC. it doesn’t help that advertising here is at least 5 years behind its counterparts across the water (hence the Prone family fearing a Machiavellian style overthrow of their tenuous grip on media power). If our government are ignorant of the interwebs and embrace a one sided opinion from media bosses without actively engaging with those progressing in online media then they’re doomed to failure. As per Fintans best commentator, they wont be able to remove the freedoms people have become so accustomed to.

      Storyful are headed in the right direction (albeit a little slow sometimes on lol content). The Times online isn’t quite sure what it is yet keeping one foot in the print edition and another online, the indo is just a facsimile of its print edition with comments, and Broadsheet and the Journal are a hilarious porridge of fact, fiction, racism, bullying, comedy and clever journalism.

      out with the old and in with the new news online media socialism (NNOMS)

      1. cluster

        RTE in fairness has had quite a successful strategy online and it doesn’t rely on the, ‘broadcasting handout they get from the government’ except for broadcasting some of its tv content (which is what the BBC does as well).

        I do agree with your general point.

        1. paul m

          “RTÉ is unusual among state broadcasters in Europe in being heavily reliant on advertising and other commercial revenue. Approximately half of its €400 million annual budget comes from this source – the remainder from the licence fee. Independent broadcasters are solely reliant on advertising and commercial revenue and compete with RTÉ for it. Because these stations are completely dependent on advertising, the service they provide is now under threat.” – from tim collins article in IT.

          the BBC has a far more restrictive remit it isnt permitted to put advertising on its broadcasting, so its licence fee revenue is justified, and has had some of its funding curtailed due to protests from competitors about its ad revenue for online, and rightfully so. BBC generates a good deal of revenue from its archive and licencing video, audio and still imagery similar to getty images. They also do a fine line DVD sales of some of their programmes and building excellent complementary online portals that tie in with their programming, driving the user to the ad revenue.

          I know TV isnt the debate here but it is the youngest medium of the three under threat and it is one of the quickest to adapt so newspapers should be looking to this area for how to adapt.

          But the print bosses just cannot admit what the real problem is – the top brass are paid way too much, they were unwilling to invest a good while back in a proper online presence and court their future audience – the majority of their target audience at the time only interaction with the net was when their kids showed them how to book flights online.

          They who clearly dont understand what is going on think they missed the boat and are panicking. In fairness to the IT online they have communicated well with their audience and are trying to implement as much as they can, but its currently manning the water pumps rather than steering away from the rocks. Time to accept that the printed paper will become the secondary player that the internet once was.

          after all the medium whether its printed, radio, tv or internet is just the tool to get the job done – convey the message.

  11. Ttable Whey

    “We comment with great vehemence on things we know absolutely nothing about.”

    The most ironic statement in the history of the internet.

  12. Dalkey Sailor

    Please ignore the Toole.

    I’d rather talk to something that fell out of a dogs arse then engage with him in dialogue. He should return to his planet and leave earth alone – we mean no harm

  13. bisted

    …just checked @fotoole ….Fintan still has over 19000 followers but hasn’t tweeted since March last year….wait…wasn’t that the election when Fintan, McDreamy and the usual suspects were going to form a new political party….he was a prolific user of the ‘new technology’ then ….just sayin’.

  14. EMC

    So people think the internet should be completely free then?

    The cyber bullying which led to Phoebe Prince’s suicide.
    Child porn and paedophilia sites.
    Cyber crime, hacking peoples personal information, bank details etc
    And yes, Illegal downloading, and uploading in particular.

    The anti-ACTA lobby has had more than enough airtime to propose alternatives to ACTA but all I keep hearing is “free and open internet”. This is an area which needs regulation.

    For the record I think acta goes too far, but if people want to campaign against it then some credible alternatives need to be proposed.

    1. Sinead

      What in Gods name has murders and criminals got to do with democracy and free speech.

      Where people have a right to their opinion, a right to say what and how they feel. A right to have business that is not deliberately overtaken or blocked inorder to take away Democracy. Then pretend they just regular pats and mary’s ..doing their job..
      Any idea how many articles end up in print media after discussions in board rooms, editor offices bar stools that never have anything to do with news..Why do you think monopolies are formed?

      And you dont knee jerk proposals on ‘air’ nor should such be demanded in first place. It should be an open consultative process. Note ..Open..not like an Irish type of consultative process. Different meaning.

    2. well

      “The cyber bullying which led to Phoebe Prince’s suicide.”

      Your wrong there, phoebe prince’s bullying was in public, only a small amount of extended to online.

      “Child porn” existed before the internet.

      “hacking peoples personal information, bank details ”
      banks are not going to stop using computers now.thieves won’t stop stealing, should we ban the use of cars to prevent bank robberies?

      “And yes, Illegal downloading, and uploading in particular.”- this problem is much less disgusting and much less reprehensible than the other reasons you give yet its the one that governments are willing to throw away your freedom over, why? lobbyists, thats all this is about, rich lobbyists that want to hold monopoly.

      There are hundreds of sites like mega-upload, but mega-upload only got raided when kimdotcom decided to try become a LEGAL competitor to the companies that currently control the music industry.

      They don’t care about piracy, they care about competition.

      “For the record I think acta goes too far, but if people want to campaign against it then some credible alternatives need to be proposed.”

      So if we can’t propose an alternative to feudalism we aren’t allowed to protest it?

    3. Yer man there

      Yeah, the problem with the whole “the internet is too open” argument is that it is really vague. Child porn, bullying, hacking are all illegal activities and are a matter for the police. People who engage in this kind of behaviour are arrested and associated sites are shut down. This is how the internet has functioned up until now and it’s been grand.

      Most of the hot air at the moment is really the big media companies being sore losers because they can’t keep up with technology. I don’t really buy the “artists are losing out” argument because for every Metallica that misses out on a sale there are hundreds of small and independent artists getting their music out there to new listeners without the “help” of the big labels. Big media companies are still making money, they’re just not making as much as they’d like to.

      1. well

        “Metallica that misses out on a sale there are hundreds of small and independent artists getting their music out there to new listeners without the “help” of the big labels. Big media companies are still making money, they’re just not making as much as they’d like to.”

        The only thing this making harder is for the big labels to continue manufacturing the same pap they have been producing year

    4. Continuity Jay-Z

      In the 1970’s the Zodiac killer in San Francisco published his cryptic messages in newspapers. i think we should ban newspapers to prevent this ever happening again.

    5. neil

      All the examples you have given ARE illegal, and can already be investigated and prosecuted without any new legislation.

      Also as ‘well’ above has pointed out, these crimes or their offline equivalents have occurred since long before the internet was around, and continue to take place offline.

  15. Sinead

    If you did not bother to fix the vile beast you tolerated acknowledged and earned from?
    How can you comment or complain about another medium.
    No moral or civil concerns as you break such rules each & every day nor what if information like the old Silly Cow caught in bed with Slimy Pig. Tabloids do that every day.

    St Partick Get them human Snakes Out of Ireland Now! (and take back your day from multi nationals and political con artists with bowls of shamrock, please) that kind of comment really upsets as its sooo silly and disrespectful. You wouldn’t allow that no as it would encourage expression and would spring right back at you, must be controlled, repeat repeat….well ha ha That frustration you feel that loss of power..Well that’s how this country has felt about print media. Especially the old generation most now passed on. They really loathed your propaganda drivel. Just on their behalf I thought I’d get that in.

  16. mylod

    What Fintan O’Toole completely fails to recognise is that the internet is a medium. The effect of Cyber bullying can be achieved by delivering an anonymous letter, or making a phonecall from a phonebox. Vandalising someone’s Facebook page is the 21st century equivalent of defacing a poster.
    All of the heinous activities referred to existed in some form or other before the internet. When will people stop confusing the medium with the message?

  17. Dedalus05

    Is the irony lost on Broadsheet that they have largely copied an article from the Irish Times – when said article touches on the issue of copyright?

    You have made no attempt to provide a counter argument to Fintan, or provide context. You have just copied content from the Irish Times to drive traffic and increase your add revenue. The hypocrisy is astounding.

    1. sinead

      Ineed if you take the issue apart, you have a point. Although the Irish Times article was comment on comment and on someone who is commenting on other peoples comments on commenting on other places which in that unique particular Irish type fashion brings us right back to where we started.

      The difference remain in print there are no comments. In their world it’s ‘the big chair’ and the hammer bang, print letter a. or letter b. or letter d. depending on how the big chair agenda is going that day. Hmm! yea, but you still have a point.

      Only there are plenty of online journal sites that do have original comment on pieces. Unlike again, print. So you can probably get a better on line experience there. I don’t think rats with hats is quiet the right type of journal on line experience for you. You need more the full package with the journalist at hand where, this is more reflections on day to day happenings, moments and images. A bit like a cafe of ponderance I would say.
      Then when the birds are singing and the ducks are quacking and you feel like whistling, you might feel like some ponderance once more.

  18. robbgoblin

    Elpenor Dignam, you rule.

    Hers IS the counter-argument, Dedalus05.

    Anyway, I don’t know about y’all, but the internet is to me the most fantastic library that human civilization has ever seen. Comment vehemently on something I know nothing about? Nah, Tool(e), I’d rather watch videos of singing fish-heads…LOL, as we natives say.

    1. JimW

      Sorry but I had to laugh at Elpenor Dignam’s comment ridiculous statement – “internet communities demonstrate a remarkable ability to self police”. In his/her dreams.

      You only have to look at sites like Broadsheet, Journal, Facebook pages of personalities and organisations to know conclusively that if no (or loose) moderation is applied chaos rules and those who shout loudest tend to be the people who dominate irrespective of any intelligence to their postings.

      I am constantly amazed at the lack of self-discipline people have with regard to commenting especially when using their public profile such as Facebook or Twitter. All sense of manners, decency and common-sense go out the window. It’s surprising given that one of the first things any employers does these days is check whether a person has an online presence and if so what he/she uses it for.

      1. neil

        Perhaps if you only listen to the loudest voice that’s what dominates. However, should you take the time to read a variety of comments and reach an informed opinion about their relative merits, you might come away with a different view. That’s the beauty of an open discussion.

  19. Minderbinder

    A fairly surprisingly illiberal response from Tintan O’Foole (one of the Madam Editor twitter account highlights, that). The generational gap really is being heightened by the technological divide between those who grew up with the internet and those didnt.

  20. Ed Van der Hoff

    Fintan’s grandpappy protested Mr. Gutenberg’s device, as well. Said it could be used for pornography, inciting hatred, defamation, and of course, bullying.

    We’ve moved from a world of “push” technology to one of “pull” technology. No longer is my Friday night TV viewing dictated by RTE. I can now watch what I want, where I want. Either by the Internet or by PVR. Likewise, I can keep up to date on news stories that the print media consider to be forgotten, and not worthy of further discussion (or apology!).

      1. hoopla

        I blame the scrolls – ban the scrolls. Allowing people to carry durthy pictures and fhilltee words all over the shop.

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