If You’re In Brussels Tonight

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To coincide with the EU leaders summit.

Ireland Vote No For Us (CorporateEurope.org)

Previously: No Campaign Goes International

Thanks Lorcan O’Flaherty

16 thoughts on “If You’re In Brussels Tonight

  1. Paddy

    Please don’t ruin a lovely sunny evening in Brussels with another ‘occupy’ movement. The person who sent this in is clearly in favour of a No vote. Perhaps we should call a Yes vote rally? Place de Luxembourg!

    1. Just sayin'

      I’m pretty sure Place Lux will be busy tonight either way! Hope the local GAA aren’t training in Cinquantenaire this evening. The riot police might get the wrong idea when they see hurleys.

  2. MorkSkogen

    I don’t understand this. Whether we ratify it or not it will still go through they only need 12 of 17 nations to pass it. When I vote it will be based on purely domestic concerns.

    This is not Lisbon or Nice. We hold no cards. It will go through with, or without us. There is no holding Europe to ransom over bank debt. We are not the last bastion of democracy and we are not voting for the wider EU. The Train leaves on the 31st, we need to decide if it’s going where we want to be the rest of this is a complete red herring

    1. Niall

      Au contraire.

      Francois Hollande has explicitly stated that he will not sign the treaty in its current form. Afaik, only Greece has ratified so far.

      All eyes are on us to send it back to the table for modification, or to lose our nerve and accidentally resuscitate it.

    2. cluster

      I am leaning towards Yes but I’m not sure they will press ahead with it if one Euro nation votes against. Doing so, could create more Eurozone crisis, more worldwide discussion of democratic deficit, another demonstration of the weakness of the fiscal union between the Wurozone countries.

    3. Niall

      Also, little thought experiment. What do you think would happen to the European financial system if we were to default on our bank debt? Would you say that default would be a likely consequence of Ireland’s being unable to access cheap funding in the short to medium term? Given all of that, is the EU really likely to cut us off for the length of time it takes to renegotiate or expand the treaty, especially given the relatively modest sums involved, as against the potential for chaos?

    4. Clampers Outside

      “The facts point to just one completed ratification (Greece) and two parliamentary ratifications pending presidential assent (Slovenia and Portugal).Germany has deferred ratification. And there would appear to be a total of 22 countries including Ireland which have yet to ratify the Compact.” From NAMA Winelake last week.

      Only ONE country has ratified the treaty.

  3. Paddy

    MorkSkogen, It is true that for the treaty to go through a minimum of 12 Member States need to ratify it, but if we vote no we are ticking ‘I disagree’ and thereby no committing to play by the rules. This then leaves us outside the European Financial Stability Facility and when we go looking for bailout funds we will effectively be greeted by a ‘no Irish need apply sign’.

    1. Niall

      These same “rules” apply to us in any event, as a consequence of other instruments, albeit not wit the strong exemption from any constitutional accountability. The ESM element, especially the blanket immunity and sweeping powers, is worrying in the extreme, particularly given the fact that there’s no sweetener of any kind to balance this. Even prominent advocates on the yes side are taking it as a given that further negotiation/renegotiation will be required. As for the “no Irish” scaremongering, it’s simply not credible. The EU core and financial institutions have much more to lose from Ireland’s being unable to finance repayments on bank debt than perhaps even we do.

      1. Action Man

        You can be guaranteed that with a no vote, bank debt will still continue to be paid. Our ‘bend over and take what europe dishes out’ government will see to that.
        What we will be looking at is severe hike in taxes and severe cuts in spending. And you can be sure that with the Croke Park agreement in place those cuts will not come from the public service wage bill, it’ll be front line services.
        I’m still undecided BTW.

        1. Niall

          The abject spinelessness of our “bend over and take what europe dishes out” political class is something that needs to be factored in, for sure.

          Two points on this. First of all “Europe” is by no means as clear in its austerity/small gubbmint agenda as it was in the Merkozy era. The new French leadership have made a dramatic volte face:

          “The treaty won’t be ratified as it stands and it needs to be completed with an addition on growth,” Moscovici said in an interview with local news channel BFM TV.

          http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303448404577409463910527758.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

          So, we won’t be alone in rejecting the current formulation.

          Secondly, I think it’s clear that we’ve cut about as much as we can. By the by, I’m not sure that there’s a clear demarcation between public sector pay and service provision, but that’s neither here nor there.

          Would be politically suicidal for the blueshirts to go much further with this, although they’re clearly ideologically comfortable with it, the public aren’t, and I’m sure they must recognise that their mandate is a tenuous one, based on not being the other crowd. There’s also the Labour factor, they’ve obviously sold out every one of their principles already, but there has to be a point at which they have to protect the future viability of their party.

          Finally, there’s the simple fact that I feel more comfortable fighting the blueshirts and Labour to save services than I do with the potential actions of a totally unaccountable ESM.

          1. Clampers Outside

            “….we’ve cut about as much as we can.”

            We haven’t even started on politicians salaries; their ridiculous pensions; their early retirement pensions; their multi-pensions; allowances and expenses, etc. or the fact that we don’t need 162 of them.

            Lots of cuts and savings to be made right there!!

  4. Rick ter Schele

    Note that the event takes place at the Avenue de la Joyeuse Entrée. An event aimed at a Joyeux Exode.

    Ha!

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