Pay Up And Shut Up Latest


THE PROPERTY tax will be pitched at 0.25 per cent of current house value, a Government source has predicted.

The source said the new tax to replace the €100 household charge “would not be a million miles away” from the example cited in an ESRI report focusing on a tax rate in the region of €2.50 to €3 per €1,000 of house value.

Minister of State for European Affairs Lucinda Creighton told The Irish Times last week there should be no automatic exemptions from property and water taxes for pensioners or social welfare recipients, although ability to pay should be taken into consideration.

Shouldn’t it, though?

Property tax to cost 0.25 per cent of house value (Mary Minihan, Irish Times)

(Sam Boal, Photocall Ireland)

59 thoughts on “Pay Up And Shut Up Latest

  1. orieldude

    I don’t know what I think about this yet.

    But I do know that a property tax that exempts people on the grounds of how much they earn isn’t a property tax, it’s another income tax.

  2. Definition

    Meanwhile all those protected by the Croke Park Agreement are getting their automatic increments (aka pay rise) in their pay packet this month

    1. Miss Wilkinson

      Are they the same people that have had significant reductions in their pay in the last couple of year?

      ‘Protected’ me arse.

      1. Frodo

        Exactly, Ms Wilkinson.
        Tired of civil / public servant bashing around here.

        The salaries for most if not ALL below the age of 30 is laughably low. Too low to live on. Take home of circa 21k per annum.

        I got more than that in private sector at age 19 with no qualifications.

      2. Sido

        Raking it in Ms. Wilkinson!! And whinging like the greedy feckless scummers at the same time.

        I like the way they tell us that civil servants earn a third more than the normal industrial wage on average
        e.g. Prole = 600 ….. State employee = 900

        From the point of view of the Prole (non civil servant) that’s 1 and a half times more.

        1. Frodo

          Who tells us? The Indo? IT?
          Divide and conquer, although it only seems to work on the less intelligent who are unable to decide anything for themselves.

          1. Sido

            Ya the Indo (natch) – Don’t ask me who.
            They did a series recently on outrageous civil servant perks.
            Though stupidly enough missed the most obvious – the fact that the pay is 1.5 times better on average – quoting the lower 33%

          2. Cynic

            Frodo is right.

            It’s a media campaign of divide and conquer started by FF and continued by FG. The Irish Independent are leading the charge. It’s a classic tactic for a government to undermine the will of the people and weaken their resolve.

          3. Frodo

            Reply under Sido doesn’t seem to be available.

            I’m sure you’re actually agreeing with me here through sarcasm though Sido.We do all know the lower CS workers are on a terrible wage

          4. Sido

            Sorry Frodo – When people decide it’s OK to cut off basic services for the disabled, rather than re-visit the Croke Park Agreement.
            Then you have crossed a very serious moral line in my opinion.

          5. Frodo

            My issue here is the instant attacking of all CS workers, I know people who have worked there for 5+ years, and who’s salary has gone down over that period through various cuts.
            My other issue is the “average” salary.

            Essentially what they are saying is if you have a tea boy on 15k per annum, and a minister on 250k per annum, the teaboy’s salary is on average 132.5k per annum,
            In a private company the tea boy is on 26k per annum, the CEO is on 100k per annum – In the private company the tea boy is on 69.5k less than his CS counterpart. Therefore the CS teaboy can handle a few more cuts, after all that private tea boy has been on that salary for a few years and seen his taxes increase, he loathes the CS tea boy for complaining about his salary. So teh obvious choice in the eyes of the “proles” is to cut the CS tea boy’s salary further. Sure look at his benefits. Jammy git.

            Now lets look at that again. I think i see a problem….

    1. Sido

      I’m glad you asked that Fred – from the point of view of the property tax, gay’s will be treated as if they were merely the average citizen, rather than the hugely discriminated against minority that we know them to be.
      If you think this is unfair please contact your TD.

    1. Miss Wilkinson

      They seem to have a habit of getting people in ministries completed unrelated an area to then go and speak about that area. I’m guessing in this instance she got the short straw.

  3. Dave

    If I have to pay €600 – €700 annually in a property tax then that pretty much means bye-bye to the services that some of the money used to go to – (gas boiler service, car service off the top of my head) and I wonder what the hell I’m going to do about the car insurance when it comes in, and the tv licence is paid just before Christmas too. It’s a marvellous time to be young and Irish.

      1. Frodo

        I’d doubt your gaffs are worth 300k in the current market. There’ll have to be valuations done to get your current value.

          1. Frodo

            I’m sure independant valuations will be required.
            And surely current value has to be what the property would be sold for today, which while not an exact science wouldn’t be too far wrong.

          2. Sido

            Joking aside – yes it could be to far wrong. I’m told that houses sell for prices completely unrelated to the price advertised. Though who would know?
            Indeed by the law of supply and demand it would be difficult to put any value on some properties.

          3. woesinger

            Whatever else you say about a property value tax – it’d help shine some light on the true value of property in this country. AND if properly implemented (what’s the chance of that?) it’d help damp the fervour for future property bubbles.

            Which is why the vested interests in the property market will fight this tooth and nail.

            (What do you mean this isn’t the Property Pin?)

  4. budgie

    London’s council tax system, which is banded, works. It includes, but bot restricted to, bin and recycling collection (including, I might add, a day a month for bulky items), roadworks, local policing and community services, schools, leisure centres, parking, street cleaning, subsidising of public transport, social housing grants, housing and council tax benefits, support for voluntary groups, meals on wheels, facilities for young people, adapting homes for disabled people, play centres for children, cctv installation etc…

    It is not a perfect system but it is a graded system that is inclusive of all of this…i presume that when the government introduce the scheme, they will not only be getting rid of the household charge but also the crackpot ways that bin collection is organised?

    1. ex pat

      The London system is great for those of means; the better the area you live in; the cheaper your council tax as the relativity is dealt with at local level. i.e. a 2 bed flat worth £300k in Newham is in a high band whereas as a 2 bed in RBKC worth £1m probably pays less council tax. I agree with banding but I think in the case of Ireland it needs to be nationally banded and based on two blended scales that are added together. I.e. size and the other on value. i.e. 50% of the charge based on sq m say €1 per sq m and then €1 per €10,000 capital value. Average house of 100 sq m worth €200k would pay €300. A McMansion of 500 sq m worth €200k would pay €700; a 1 bed flat in Ballsbridge of 50 sq m worth €200k would pay €250.

      1. Sinabhfuil

        Lots of people on the dole whose houses are “worth” apparently large amounts. How are they going to pay €600 every year out of their €9,700 dole?

    2. Sido

      Durrrr – Implies that this tax will pay for local services – rather than pay off the ECB.
      Are Road taxes used to build and repair roads?
      No you will still have to pay bin charges.

  5. Sido

    Funny they were flying the kite at 0.20% in the Indo on Saturday (08/09/12)..
    Enda’s obviously asked Lucinda to chance her hand.
    She’s so good at explaining the benefits of being at the beating heart of Europe.

  6. Frilly Keane

    I will go to prison before I pay a property tax, based on the quotes above, on my gaff.
    I paid the household charge in lieu of water rates, and will pay a (eventual) metred charge like I pay my refuse charges. On usage.

    I consider the stamp duty already paid as priority tax enough.

    1. ex pat

      The sad reality is that Stamp Duty was paid in lieu of other taxes and to fund unsustainable public expenditure such as e-voting machines, healthcare computer systems that never saw the light of day, big pay offs for county councillors and anything Jackie Healy-Rae or Mick Lowry asked for.

      1. ex pat

        There is however a case for stamp duty paid at the height of the market between 2002 – 2007 to be set against council tax for a period of up to 10 years from the time it was paid.

  7. The Juice

    None of this money is going to go towards these local services. If they were interested in improving these they would have done so before. Its just another income tax to pile on the irish citizens and hand the money over to the trokia masters. When will it ever end?! They’ll be taxing us for breathing next.

  8. Cynic

    Lucinda Cretin is more of a threat to the independence of this country than Oliver Cromwell.

    She is a dedicated federalist, intend on reducing our fiscal independence in favour of stronger European Union run from Brussels.

    She is a puppet for large international companies who want to undermine employers rights and force down standards of accountability in order to reduce their operational costs and make even more profit for shareholders.

    1. Pedanto

      Born in a secret annex of the Kremlin, she took the name Rosa Luxemburg for her confirmation, before being converted to hardcore monetarism at a Bilderberg-organised drum weekend in Scariff.

      She hates subsidised canteens, especially if they serve Italian food, and wants to put ground glass in up to eighty per cent of the nation’s minestrone soup.

      She stole my bicycle and replaced it with a drawing of a bicycle.

      (This is fun!)

      1. woesinger

        I heard she was grown in a vat from cells taken from a mole excised from Margaret Thatcher’s right arse cheek.

        She was weaned on the blood of trade unionists and the flesh of the working man.

        While still an infant she was dipped her in a holy well in Ballinspiddle, rendering her invulnerable to sin, apart from the heel her mother held her by.

        She has been known to order widow-tear and champagne cocktails at the Dail Bar.

  9. kolmo

    The tone of the arguments for new taxes and increases in existing taxes is that we have not being paying for state services up until now and we have been getting a free ride – which is, of course, horseshit. Lucinda Creighton revels in the glow of a hard nosed Thatcher, she can’t wait to dismantle the state/state services and hand them over to buddies to be run privately.

  10. D

    Ah Ireland, the only country where people who complain about the wealthy having too much fight against a property tax.

    1. kolmo

      No, it only encourages them, we don’t need politicians, they achieve nothing except add to global warming with all the waffle, they create crisis to justify their positions.

    1. Sido

      Well high lighted – And the big intellectual no brainer in this one.

      Though a commenter above maintains that they (presumably civil servants) can get “experts” to decide these complex issues. So the public think they are being ripped off.

      1. Pedanto

        If they base the tax on house value, half the empty houses in the country will myseteriously burn down. Site-based valuation seems a bit safer.

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