Your euphemism of the day has arrived.

Those on the benefit would face moving on to means-tested jobseeker’s payments much earlier. This would see thousands of people receiving lower rates. The move is aimed at encouraging people to seek work, or what policymakers call a “labour activation measure”.

 

Proposal To Cut Dole After Nine Months (Martin Wall and Carl O’Brien, Irish Times)

(Mark Stedman/Photocall Ireland)

66 thoughts on “On The Dole?

  1. Tommy

    So the decent worker who has the stamps finds they will have even less welfare benefits whilst the dole lifer and welfare families will have no impact. Another kick in the face to the worker.

    1. Captain Obvious

      Why would the dole lifer escape this? …. where did you read that, seriously, I’m interested to find out.

          1. l

            Welfare benefits were never that large to begin with. It annoys me when people talk shit about people on welfare, if it is really that much of a joyride then go for it. Sign on and see how you manage.

          2. Bobby

            Class!

            What have Garda violence (against the poor of course), left-wing parties and political activists have in common?

            None of them can radicalise the working-class like a good dole cut. This, my friends, should be interesting…

          3. Niall

            The duration of benefit would be reduced, so as Tommy says it’s an attack on the decent worker who finds themselves out of work.

    2. Niall

      Exactly, this is nothing more than a cash grab, you could actually call it a stealth tax, as it amounts to paying the same PRSI for less benefit. It would be as if an insurer says you can pay the same contributions but in the event of an accident we’ll only pay out 3/4 of what you’re owed.

      Government by Troika

  2. Fredtheninja

    While I reserve total judgement about exactly who the government will be targeting, I absolutely welcome the fact that people are having their welfare cut after nine months.

    Working in employment services I see people everyday who are offered positions with companies/courses to upskill who regularly refuse them as the welfare they are on means it is not worth their while to bother working a job.

    There are undoubtedly tousands of people who are barely surviving on welfare…but there are also thousands more, espacially in their 20′s and 30′s who are surviving and have a great amount of expendable income at the end of every week.

    1. atswimtwoturds

      So let’s make it harder for those who are struggling. Great argument in favour of this.

      There aren’t enough jobs. What happened to “it’s not your fault”?

      1. Zuppy International

        @ Fredtheninja

        What not just start shooting people who don’t take the crappy underpaid work on offer from you ‘employment services’. That’ll save a few quid.

          1. Joe Duffy

            You’re the one who seems to assume people in their 20′s and 30′s should move to their parents when they lose their job! I can’t see any other way of getting by on €170 a week.

      2. Damien Doyle

        It really isn’t as cut and dry as they refuse the job as they are doing better on the dole. If you are unemployed and face rent, electricty and heating bills and debt repayment it makes no sense to take up a job that results in a lower income once transport and the additional fees for work are included.

        Getting people to work needs to result in a net increase in disposal income, otherwise it just doesnt make sense. At the end of the day bills have to be paid. Reducing the dole doesnt mean that people can easily reduce their cost base to reflect the income change.

        In addition 14.8% of the workforce are not unemployed just for the laugh. it is only a small core that are actually scrounging off the system.

        1. SOMK

          Second to that, the people who loose most in terms of social welfare going back to work are parents. Often the situation can be one parent works and the other is on the dole and looking after the kids. Getting a job means loosing out on those payments, the extra cost in working (travel/lunch/clothes/equipment/social functions), plus the addition of childcare costs should there be no one available to look at the children (this is especially problematic for first generation immigrants with no family in the country).

          The behaviour of many employers in how they exploit the jobsbridge programme, would indicate that they pay as little as they can get away with first and complain about people not gratefully receiving their sacred jobs mana like a liberating army second.

        2. Joe Duffy

          It appears the good people in “employment services” only care for getting the stats down. Same position as government. No regard for the suitability or viability of the job. Ideally, a person would come off jobseekers allowance only when they find sustainable and gainful employment. That’s what they pay PRSI for.

          No need to remind our good friend that threatening notices regarding behaviour at welfare offices are not generally targeted at people who have lost their job in the last 12 months.

          By targeting the wrong group, the government can manipulate the public into thinking we should do away with welfare altogether – as it will cease to serve those who actually pay into it. That sounds like a long term elitist FG objective to me. Lovely stuff.

        3. Continuity Jay-Z

          5% of the population are dole monkeys. 10% were honest workers who have lost their jobs. Going back to records in the Celtic Tiger years should give the government and idea if who and how many of our air citizens are the dossers.

          It will be shameful if previous PRSI workers get the shaft here. Cut the junkies and the scammers dole. Cut the dole of the families of the delinquents and bowsies that Hoover up more than their fair share of resources. Cut the allowances of the welfare queens with their lifestyle babies.

    2. GH

      Would you like to swap places? I’m sick to the teeth of people lucky to have a job saying how good life is on the dole. Yet, I dont see any one of you prepared to swap place with someone on the dole.

    3. Nigel

      So, the wages are less than or not much more than the dole. I suppose paying better wages is out of the question.

  3. hello

    interesting article – “We should be supporting our jobless thousands, not punishing them”
    http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/unemployment-tom-boland-675758-Nov2012/

    It is a tiny minority of people who are “dole lifers” and who do not want to work. It is incredibly easy to forget about the thousands of people struggling both financially, socially and psychologically as a result of being unemployed. That should be the issue being addressed, not trying to catch out the few who abuse the system as they will always exist, whatever the rules.

    1. Tommy

      But these people with no interest in working are unaffected. Its only the people who have ever paid some prsi that are going to be hit.
      I’d be pissed off if I paid top money for social insurance and then when I needed it instead of having a year of a welfare fund I only had 9 months.

        1. Leela2011

          unfortunately this is more common, despite having professional experience and applying to any suitable jobs over 25k (or equivalent p/t or contract), I haven’t had one job offer in a year. I’m means tested now and get €15/week from welfare as I have savings. I only worry that when my savings are eaten away, I’ll get feck all support

        2. GH

          People are going “mental”, as you put it. There is societal carnage on the horizon by the psychological effects of not finding work. There seems to be a thinking out there that the unemployed are fed and are kept warm they should be happy.
          The emotional starvation of being unemployed is literally killing people. The profile of the average unemployed person is not the same as 20yrs ago. Then, it was indolent poorly educated people who were unemployed. Nowadays, in many cases, the person behind the hatch in the dole office would not hold a candle to some of the people they are dealing with in terms of experience and qualifications.
          That’s the tragedy.

      1. Sido

        I think the important point that a lot of people are missing here, is that this is not an austerity measure.
        It is a“labour activation measure” designed to reduce austerity going forward

  4. Louise

    I think it’s about time. The dole at it’s current rate is actually a disincentive to work – I’ve seen it myself in interviews which are offering above minimum wage yet are still rejected…

    1. Johnbee

      Really? where exactly are these above minimum wage jobs?, I’m sure there are plenty of people who would be interested.Maybe you could let us know.

    2. Sido

      I always find such claims difficult to believe. Assuming that you are not trolling.
      A) What was the job?
      B) What were the working hours? (specify if shift)
      C) What was the generous remuneration package (over minimum wage)?
      D) Were the logistics of arriving and leaving the job expensive or excessively inconvenient?
      E) Have the employers considered, or are using Job Bridge?

  5. martco

    mmm…very good Spinology there, looks like they’ve all recently attended some serious Orwell lectures, maybe ours!

    Royte…as we all know by now political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind (as the man himself would say)

    At the Institute of Communications we’re like total experts in this field so I’ve had some of the goys in Spingeneering knock up a few examples in the specialist field of Social Adjustment for you to try to translate into English…and we have a placement in an exciting Jobbridge role for one lucky player!

    Example: Austerity
    Answer: Poverty

    a) bailout
    b) fiscal austerity/consolidation
    c) structural adjustment/reform
    d) labour flexibility
    e) competitiveness
    f) restoring order

    Good Luck!

  6. Jay

    Not sure that this is the solution but its pretty clear something must be done to counter the amount of people on the dole refusing work. The argument of the income being lower than the dole, etc are utter non-sense. I have no doubt that taking on a “crap”, “low paid” job is beneficial in the long run (and sometimes quicker!). Im sure many of us with jobs today had to struggle at some point or another, I know i did. The entitlement from some people in this country is getting totally insane. Granted there are exceptions and certainly a lot of work to do on the SW side to find an efficient way to detect and help those who need it the most. For the young and single living at Ma’s : Move your effing butt.

    1. figsy

      This would seem to imply that all those lazy young single people need do is go and get a job, which is actually a fabulous idea, lucky for them there hasn’t been some massive economic upheaval recently which might make that incredibly difficult, oh…

    2. OnATroll

      Can’t they move their butts out of the country. Maybe to America where butt is a common phrase for arse, hole, buttocks.
      Anyway, a bit of competition for jobs is no harm, let the oiks fight it out for what low paid jobs there are here, and anyone with a bit of get up and go can have the adventure of their lives in a overcrowded flatshare in a former british colony, while I sit on my hole and pontificate on an internet forum, like this, like I’m doing now.

    3. SOMK

      ” something must be done to counter the amount of people on the dole refusing work” give proof not conjecture

    4. Leela2011

      Well I think I’ll continue to avoid low-paid jobs while I’m getting near-zero from Welfare. if I worked full-time in a low-paid job I wouldn’t be able to continue the Springboard course I’m doing, which has webinars during the day. And before you say anything, I applied for a relevant Jobbridge that would allow me to continue course and didn’t even get that. fucking sick of this country

      1. Jay

        Nevermind JobBridge, its a sham. They are putting everyone up for IT course but very few will be employable as a result. You are much better off starting at the bottom of the ladder (like im sure, again, many of us did) and work your way up. It seems to me that a lot of people just expect things (=jobs) to fall in their lap, thats not the way it works. Again, no-one says its easy but staying on the dole and lookup in the sky certainly wont help in any way.

    5. Nigel

      ‘its pretty clear something must be done to counter the amount of people on the dole refusing work.’

      Better wages and working conditions?

  7. jerry o'conner

    Might be the wrong place to bring this up but why not start taxing people earning 100K+ a bit more as well so? 1% 0r 2%? Might as well include everyone else?

      1. Joe Duffy

        Create tax bands for pensions at standard income levels and means test the state pension (but not ruthlessly).

        In economics, people need to earn more at the peak of their lives/careers, since they usually have family, mortgage etc. By retirement, the financial pressure is off. Therefore, if a family can get by on the industrial average, so can a retired person.

        Logic: pensions were tax free to begin with, so taxing wouldn’t be double taxation or grabbing (like we saw last year when they attacked the private pension accounts).

        Public sector pensions will bankrupt the state at this rate and this maybe the only way to reduce the bill. This or leave the Euro for a period and re-enter…

  8. Gallant

    So people aren’t emigrating soon enough for the government’s liking. At least they can leave 3 months earlier now.

    Is that the plan?

        1. figsy

          +1

          Oh, and while you’re here, would that loaves & fishes trick work in creating borderline criminal “internships” who’s sole purpose is to make the live register figures look prettier & provide companies with obscenely cheap labour?

          JesusBridge!

      1. dangermse

        Maybe that’s what the Gathering is really about. Come home spend a few bob but don’t forget to take someone back with you…..

        1. figsy

          We’ll finally see if the Yanks’ éire-boner is for real, “you love the Irish eh? well here, his name’s Brian, look after him, cheers”

  9. Kat8

    The people that will get screwed over by this will be the ones that were in full time work, then get put down to a 2/3 day week or the people that were in full time work and then only manage to get part-time work.
    So unless they’re getting really well paid for that part time work they’ll be better off going on the dole full time.

  10. Pablo Pistachio

    Let’s go fly a kite, up to the highest height!

    Next up, the disabled and the elderly. Sure they can’t put up much of a fight either.

    1. cluster

      I don’t agree with cuts to the dole or to home help.

      Other allowances to the wealthy however should be looked at quite closely. There has been a massive transfer of wealth in thsi country from the young to the elderly.

    1. Jay

      Ah but its too far, I’d have to get up early, cant do evenings, dont lilke that, bla bla and re-bla. Lazy-nation.

  11. LiamRyan

    Half the unemployed in Ireland are job snobs who see themselves above working in Tescos or McDonalds. God bless them

  12. domquixote

    It seems to me, (and nobody else has said it), that what we actually need to do to close this gap in our finances is to shut down all those loopholes that large companies, and the ultra-wealthy, use to evade their share of the tax burden. You know, offshore banking, fiscal paradises, transfer accounting etc. etc.

    Or, we can continue with the ever popular policy of helping the unemployed off their knees by the trusted method of kicking them in the teeth.

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