Abortion As A Form Of Contraception

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Yup.

“In the other side of the argument, in regard to the inclusion of suicide, there are no regulations there. It will be the duty of Government, in working with people, to put in a clarification and restrictions that this does not in anyway become abortion on demand or that abortion is seen as a form of contraception.”

 

Enda Kenny on France 24.

 

Interview: Enda Kenny (France24)

176 thoughts on “Abortion As A Form Of Contraception

      1. cyclecrunk

        you obviously do not understand the meaning of the word contraception. go educate yourself and come back to us when you are all up to speed with your own language.

        1. SiriusBrowne

          Yes I do understand the meaning of the word contraception as it happens. Do you understand the meaning of the word semantics? Oh good- now we can play scrabble…..

          What An Taoiseach is pointing out here is that the danger exists of Abortion being viewed/treated/used as an alternative to contraception/birth control ie the prochoice movement seem to think that an abortion is some kind of normal everyday “procedure” that is legitimate to get anytime someone doesn’t want to have a baby.

          You have obviously heard this turn of phrase used before (it is extremely common) but would rather play dumb because you are mentally incapable of debating the issue and would rather just insult people.

          If you are not however familiar with this language, I suggest you go educate yourself and come back to us when your up to speed on basic political debate over the past 30 years.

          1. Jess

            Why on earth would someone willingly forego the safer, cheaper and easier options of the pill/condoms in favour of just having an abortion if you get pregnant? It’s not just a walk in the park, and diminishing a woman’s important and often difficult choice to something trivial or frivolous is frankly insulting.

          2. OliverE

            you dont understand what the word contraception means, abortion doesn’t prevent getting pregnant. you also do not know what the pro choice movement is about. it is not about abortion being made into a “normal everyday “procedure”, it is not something people enter into lightly and it is not something that the pro choice movement are saying should be, it’s about rights and a woman’s right to her own body and her choice to have an abortion if she chooses. stop fear mongering as though everyone is going to toss away their pills and condoms so they can have an abortion instead, that’s a very low opinion of the women in this country you have there, well done

          3. Mar

            ehhh..women do not use abortion as contraception. If one does it would probably indicate an underlying issue like not properly diagnosed mental illness– the issue that needs to be addressed –preferably beforehand. But women do not use abortion as contraception–thats just insulting.

        1. wafflewaitress

          Because an abortion is not a form of contraception. It’s a stupid thing to say. Ergo, muppet.

          It’s quite worrying that he actually said that.

        2. Steve

          I think the point being made is that Kenny needs to a little more careful with his working, aka the whole ‘before vs after intercourse’ debate. The world wide web indicates that the definition of contraception is the “intentional prevention of conception or impregnation through the use of various devices, agents, drugs, sexual practices etc”. By definition abortion cant therefore be contraception because the foetus has already been conceived.

          Abortion prevents the foetus getting to term. But does that mean the morning after pill is abortion??? Geniune question.

          1. Jess

            The morning after pill is not an abortion. If it works correctly, it prevents conception by inhibiting or delaying ovulation so that there is no egg present to be fertilised. If conception has already taken place, you’re SOL.

      2. Pat Allen

        Contraception means a method to prevent pregnancy which means than abortion cannot be used as a method of contraception. The leader of our country, and you, don’t understand this. Muppet seems appropriate.

        1. SiriusBrowne

          Very strange. I am quite surprised that I have to explain this turn of phrase to people that appear to be literate.
          Again please see above.

          1. Pat Allen

            To say that the pro-choice movement think an abortion is an everyday procedure and not something to be seriously thought about is a total misrepresentation of their argument. You may think that people are being pedantic about the use of language by our dear leader but others think this subject needs to be discussed in clear and precise language. It avoids confusion.

      3. Sido

        @ Sirius Browne – Muppet is indeed a polite description of Kenny but I don’t think that is the point you were after making.
        Whilst Moronic Clown might seem more fitting it could be deemed less than polite.
        What’s your point here?

      1. SheIsTheCatsMother

        A muppet, because someone is pulling his strings?

        I agree, it besmirches the muppets – but then again, Jim Henson, Brian Froud et. al. were pulling their strings back in the day.

        Who is pulling Inda’s strings?

      1. herself.there

        Cos this is very insulting to women who have had terminations and to everyone who is campaigning for the right to choose. It’s feeding into this grossly untrue idea that should abortion become available a significant proportion of women will just give up contraception and opt of abortions instead. Abortion is not an easy option. But he really is making a gobshite of himself because he is making this comments in a country that already accepts the rights of women to terminate a pregnancy. Looking like right lap dogs of the vatican.. Morto!

      2. realPolithicks

        He is an idiot because the notion of using abortion as a form of contraception is nonsensical. Contraception is used to prevent pregnancy. Abortion is used to end a pregnancy. Pro lifers constantly throw up this smokescreen of “abortion on demand” and “abortion as a form of contraception” because they simply do not want to deal with this issue at all. It’s been 20 years, get on with it.

    1. David Higgins

      He’s saying that Abortion should not be “seen as a form of contraception.”

      What’s wrong with that?

      It isn’t a form of contraception, and any change in the legislation wouldn’t make it such either.

      I really dismay at these BS articles that try and make a controversy out of nothing.

      1. pedeyw

        In what way are they trying to make a controversy out of it? They are reporting on something Enda Kenny said in an interview. There isn’t really any controversial headline over it either. I don’t see the alleged attempt at controversy.

  1. Brendan278

    This was fine. I’m not an Enda sympathiser or pro life, but there’s really nothing wrong with what he says here. Looking for controversy like this makes other more pertinent BS articles lose credibility.

    1. sinabhfuil

      Hmm, choice: use a pill or condom, or have a painful invasive operation. Which contraceptive method to use…hmmm…

      1. Simon

        I think the point albeit wrongly put is that it MAY be used in conjunction for example just say suicide to be used as a form of contraception later on during the pregnancy, Well that’s what I got out of the statement, Not as a form of contraception.

    2. well

      so you’d block a woman from choosing to terminate a pregnancy if she was worried it May make her sick? Eg fistula , diabetes heart problem etc?

    3. Joe Duffy

      I agree too.

      When I walk out my door I am undecided as to whether I want an abortion or an ice-cream. I need Enda Kenny to prevent me from making a light decision.

      FG are in power for a reason. It will take you a while to realise that freedom of speech is not a concept the party is built on.

  2. Jolly

    Abortion can’t be a form of contraception.
    Contraception is a preventative drug, device, sexual practices, or surgical procedures that you use to try avoid getting pregnant in the first place.
    So saying that it’s possible to use abortion as a contraceptive method would be like saying that you could have an abortion without being pregnant.
    Stupid.

    1. Jack

      Obviously we’re getting massively into semantics, and it all depends on your point of view of when pregnancy occurs, but some morning after pills prevent a fertilised egg from implanting suggesting it’s contraception post pregnancy?

      Enda’s suggestion is probably pretty dumb because I doubt any women would really view abortion as a viable alternative to condoms, the pill etc – but the comments’ stupidity don’t arise from the hairsplitting reasons you’ve engaged in.

      1. Nilbert

        I don’t think its nearly as dumb as it seems. Obviousy he’s referring to contraception as a means of preventing the birth of an unwanted child. The catholics will be used to this rhetoric, and Enda is using it to dinstinguish good abortions (on the basis of medical intervention), from bad abortion (where women inadvertantly become pregnant but don’t want to carry a pregnancy to term). In this way he avoids direct confrontation with both ‘sides’.

        Its like how they used to have good aids (blood infusions) and bad aids (the gayness/drugs).

      2. Rumpleforeskin

        Exactly, it’s stupid. That’s the real issue here. Ignoring semantics, what he says is stupid because he is stupid should he think that any human being would see abortion “as a form of birth control”.

      3. Jess

        That’s not how the morning-after pill works. Regular BC pills can sometimes affect the endometrium, making implantation more difficult for a sneakily fertilised egg, but neither the most common forms of morning-after pill nor regular pill are designed to affect implantation.

      1. Jack

        Is this to me? I’m saying I think it was stupid of him to think/say that any woman would say “well I can hold off buying condoms now that abortion’s legal”? Is there more to read into his comments?

      2. Jolly

        I understand from it that either he has no understanding of what an abortion is or what contraceptives are – or worringly he thinks that women actually see abortion as an option to taking the pill or using a condom.
        It’s ridiculous.
        An abortion is expensive, painful, and not at all an easy option. It’s sometimes the only option left and the fact that he talks about it in this way shows that he has no understanding of that at all.

    2. Raskolnikov

      No, you’re wrong, I see his point.
      Think about it – pre-sex, a couple have no contraception and don’t want a child. But they want to have sex. “Well, I can always have an abortion if, worst-case-scenario, I get pregnant”.
      The abortion will then prevent her from giving birth in 9 months time, so it is being used as a form of contraception.
      Ridiculous as this scenario seems, I’d bet this conversation has taken place many times in the past.

      1. YellowElk

        Yes. Yes this conversation definitely takes place all the time. “Oh damn, we don’t have any condoms left and it’s raining out so I can’t be bothered to go to the chemist. Let’s have a shag anyway and if I get pregnant I can just nip down to the clinic and have an expensive, painful and invasive surgical procedure. I might even get a day off work. Great craic.”

      2. well

        what about in cases where a contraceptive fails? Should everyone be refused a choice because you find some abortions immoral?

        1. Raskolnikov

          Why am I an idiot? Are you completely blinkered as to what goes on in your country?
          Have you ever seen a Jeremy Kyle show? If so, do you think they’d find enough street urchins to be able to make a Jeremy Kyle show in Ireland? If your answer is no then you’re wrong.

          1. Drogg

            people on jeremy kyle aren’t intelligent enough to think about a conversation like that. Plus the religious right like yourself does better brainwashing inner city uneducated street urchins as you called them, into keeping their unwanted children, in homes that already have to many kids and can’t support them. Jeremy Kyle should be sponsored by christianity

          2. Raskolnikov

            You have inferred from what I have said that I am part of the religious right? You really are incredibly ignorant.
            I know that some people’s stupidity knows no bounds.
            Much as I hate to be categorised, I am pro-choice, but I’m not thick enough to miss the fact that some people will see abortion as a kind of morning-after pill.
            You evidently are.

          3. pedeyw

            @Raskolnikov But if abortion on demand does happen (and I think it will), who’s business is it but the woman whether she uses it as a form of birth control? It shouldn’t really matter whether anyone else considers her reasons for abortion ‘worthy’ or not.

          4. Raskolnikov

            @padeyw
            Are you really suggesting that there is nothing wrong with using abortion as a form of birth control?
            I know of a woman that has had 3 abortions, none of which were for medical reasons/feotal deformities. Whilst I am most certainly not on the side of the pro-life clowns, I do believe that there is something inherently wrong with having multiple abortions. (for non-medical reasons)

          5. Drogg

            @Raskolnikov what about over population, or the problems a child would have to deal with growing up with a mother that doesn’t want them.

          6. Raskolnikov

            @Drogg

            You are infantile, stick to the point. I’m not getting into the whole morality/immorality of abortion. I will reiterate that I am PRO-CHOICE. I just agree that if abortion becomes legalised then it shouldn’t be used as a form of birth control.
            Is that too difficult to comprehend?

          7. Jess

            “I’m not getting into the whole morality/immorality of abortion.”

            “I just agree that if abortion becomes legalised then it shouldn’t be used as a form of birth control.”

            This is a contradiction. There is nothing medically, ethically or legally wrong with having multiple abortions(so long as abortion is legal in the first place, obvs) so you seem to be injecting some of your own morality into the discussion I’m afraid.

          8. Raskolnikov

            @Jess

            I believe abortion should be legalised. Abortion should be used (aside from medical issues/birth deformities and the like) as a last resort for those that make mistakes. However, multiple mistakes, in my opinion, are unforgivable.
            Anyone is liable to err, only a fool persists in error.
            If you believe that there is nothing wrong with one person having multiple abortions as a result of making multiple mistakes then you are a fool.
            I can see you are on the same side of the debate as me, but let’s not be foolish and take a side of the argument and go to extremes.

          9. len

            Raskolnikov, people make more than one mistake in their lives. It can happen you know, women are only human. And it’s not all down to mistakes either is it?

            Ask yourself this: is it your mistake if your contraception fails you? Is it your mistake if you suddenly get sick on the pill and it doesn’t work? Is it your mistake if you’re forced to have unprotected sex? Is it your mistake if you have mental issues that make being on the ball during a sexual encounter?

            You really honestly can’t judge this way. It’s going about the whole thing backwards.

  3. Ki

    Godammit, he’s sussed out our dastardly plan. Us women are like, sooo lazy, and taking the pill is like, sooo much effort. Having an abortion several times a year is far less expensive, and not at all difficult. You understand women so well, Mr Kenny. I’m so glad you run this country.

    1. Kevin

      He’s talking nonsense, but here’s the thing: he’s not talking to you. He’s reassuring the idiots who, for whatever irrational reasons, are genuinely worried about this and, unfortunately he has to speak publicly, with everyone listening.

      1. Xiao Liu

        I tend to agree with this comment. He knows he can’t stem the tide, so he’s paying all the lip service he can to his own base; i.e. his words here are probably both disingenuous and in vain, yet also seem to stem from enlightened self-interest of a sort (“I can’t defensibly hinder the progress of this law, so I’ll at least try and save my political neck.”)

        I may be horribly wrong, of course.

  4. KeithFahey’s Moustache

    Jolly; True and I do loath Enda but, I think in this case he is speaking in simplistic language and what he is saying makes reasonable sense. Contraception should be prior to pregnancy and the legislation for Abortion should not be a tool for people as family planning I guess is what he is trying to say.

    I have said it before not my body or morality it is up to individuals to live with the choices they make but, I think proper legislation that allows for intervention for medical, psychological reasons or in the case of rape etc is perfectly acceptable and will cover the needs of the vast majority of the people seeking abortions. Plus it helps keep the pro life nutters at bay.

    For those who have had unprotected Sex the morning after pill and a number of other options are available so abortions should not be required. But like I said Individual choice

    1. Jolly

      I don’t think that’s true. Sometimes the morning after pill doesn’t work. Sometimes people get pregnant even though they use contraception. Sure some people make the mistake or take the chance of having sex without protection because in the heat of the moment they thought “fuck it, it won’t happen to me”.
      I don’t believe that any woman should have to explain or defend her reasons for having an abortion to anyone but herself. We don’t go around and ask people with lung cancer to defend or explain why they should get treatment even though they smoked and were aware of the risk of smoking, so why should women have to defend their individual choice that concern their body and nobody elses?

      1. KeithFahey’s Moustache

        Personal opinion but read it again slowly taking in the full wording i was not offering a personal opinion;
        Abortion should not be a tool for people as family planning I GUESS THAT IS WHAT HE IS TRYING TO SAY

        “I have said it before not my body or morality it is up to individuals to live with the choices they make”

        Regardless of your belief or opinion the passage of this legislation is going to be messy, I am again guessing that the GOV parties are trying to get legislation through that fits the needs of the largest % of the population, and there are multiple family planning options out there.

  5. missred

    Hate the way the reasons given against including threat of suicide by even TDs were very similarly echoing the ones given back in 1992 – recent discussions from public representatives and the public were like an unwelcome blast from the past. How can you not take the threat of suicide seriously? It’s as real as any other threat to a life as we can see from many young people taking their lives – permannent solution to temporary problems.

    As for Enda using such an inaccurate and patronising term as “abortion used as contraception”, oh give me strength……

    Pathetic

    1. SiriusBrowne

      The argument FOR including it is also the same as in 1992…..when no psychiatric evidence whatsoever was given in court…..

      1. Sidewinder

        A psychologist gave evidence. I’ve heard that psychiatrists gave verbal statements (but I can’t prove this).

        Psychologists are charged with the care of suicidal people in Ireland all day, every day. I don’t see why their testimony is insufficient.

  6. Arbs

    Shame on those women who rush off to the pharmacy for the next morning for the morning-after pill, using abortion as a form of contraception like that. We could not have a situation, as obtains in Perfidious Albion, where the majority of women hop into bed without contraception for some illicit fun thinking: ‘well if I become pregnant, I can always just pop off to the abortion clinic in the next few weeks or months’. Abortion is always an easy choice for any woman, more or less…

  7. Lucy

    This is insulting and patronising to women. I am always going to favour using a condom and/or the pill. Even if you decide to let me have control over what I do with my own body, I’m still going to favour this combination. I don’t think it’s much a leap to assume all women would be of this view. How Enda Kenny thinks it’s alright to make such an ignorant comment when Ireland’s schools don’t have a progressive sex education course (across the board) is just incredible. I left school only 7 years ago and we were given a lot of (Catholic) mis-information about sex. So, in summary, this is offensive.

    1. Lucy

      Not really sure what point you’re trying to make here. You’re sounding as though something’s completely self-evident, when it isn’t. In fact, all you’ve done is insult me, how very Catholic of you. The argument I made is fairly basic and logical, a choice of abortion is not a simple choice as using a condoms/the pill is. Please leave the insults to yourself, thanks.

      Just to be clear, whilst I still wouldn’t agree with his remark, it would perhaps be better received if we lived in a country where the contraceptive choices that are widely available to us were more openly discussed with our teenagers.

      And I am not the one trying to enforce my view on anybody else.

        1. Lucy

          My comment was in reply to another comment that seems to have been deleted (I was called a harlot). Wasn’t meaning to sound in any judgmental, made more sense in the context… I hope!

  8. Sido

    The so called “Pro Life” movement seek to maintain a hypocritical status quo whereby Abortion is outsourced to the UK
    Their argument is, in truth, nothing to do with morality. It is to do with maintaining the Republics fealty to the Roman Catholic Church.
    (For those of you who don’t understand the concept http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fealty)

      1. Sido

        @ Sirius Browne – You seemed to have mastered the Art of typing with your colon

        How can you deny that your intention is the maintenance of the status quo – Abortion on demand in the UK.
        And your f**kwit morality is in reality – fealty to the RC Church.

        Try and answer – and here’s a new challenge for you – Answer intelligently.

        1. pedeyw

          I think Sirius Browne is referring to the fact that you just posted up a broad statement concerning abortion as opposed to replying to the BS post regarding Enda Kenny’s abortion as contraception remark. You can see the difference, right?

          1. pedeyw

            Frankly, no. I wouldn’t have insulted you like that but I don’t see the relevance of your original post.

          2. Sido

            I’m sorry that you don’t see the relevance of my post.
            I’m seeking to the debate beyond Kenny’s mindless jibber jabber and into the realms of reality.
            What are you seeking?

  9. panzerkid

    It’s his use of misleading language that is at fault here. ‘Contraception’ means to avoid conception. Abortion doesn’t prevent contraception or pregnancy, it terminates a pregnancy that already exists.

    1. pedeyw

      Again, I think it’s a semantic argument. Contraception and Birth Control are often substituted for each other because in most cases they are the same.

      1. panzerkid

        I agree, it certainly is a semantic argument- and ‘birth control’ is (quite reasonably) used interchangeably with ‘contraception’ for a number of practices. But I think there’s real danger in misleading the conversation by mistakenly placing abortion under the rubric of contraception. It’s important the distinction remains, because if there is progress and clarity to be found on this issue it will only be through clear and careful wording.

  10. Oisin

    This is the same argument that the religious groups had against condoms or the pill, saying it was wrong and immoral, yet they became available and society went on and the world didn’t end.

    I know a woman who campaigned against condoms, saying that they were against the church’s teachings, and now she completely agrees with them and agrees with abortion, because she has children and wants them to live a full life without kids stopping them from travelling etc. Sounds a bit odd? No, because Ireland is a different place, more people want to travel or have a career and young people, in general, don’t want to have children because they have more options.

    If abortion is legalised, life will go on. (Very deliberate choice of words there)

    1. Nori Mackee

      I was told that Pharmacies that were the first ones to sell condoms were boycotted back in the 80’s. There was a strong movement against contraception. Ireland, because of the Catholic Chuch is not able to move with the times like the rest of Europe again.

      1. Sidewinder

        Not strong enough, nor containing enough people. A loud, well funded majority with disproportionate media coverage is what they had then and what they have now.

  11. ferg

    His exact words
    “…or that abortion is seen as a form of contraception.”
    There is no indication here that he sees it as a form of contraception. No indication that he would view this as a reasonable thing to think or believe.
    He may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I’d have him ahead of the sarcastic geebags on here any day.

    1. pedeyw

      Yep, I think he may be a addressing people who see this as a genuine possibility. The pro lifers use the nonsense “it’ll be used as a form of contraception” argument quite a lot.

  12. cousinjack

    Kenny, like his erstwhile famale Mayo FG colleagues, probably believes that the source of societal problems are fornication and lack of rigid catholic morality. (see Michelle Mulherin & Lucinda Creighton)

      1. cousinjack

        I think the natural desire for pleasure have facilitated fornication, surpressing natural desires generally have poor consequence (visavis ctaholic church dogma re priest sexual needs)

        The idea that generations of humans pre-victorian times were more chaste than us is pure hocum

        1. Pedanto

          That sounds terribly like a euphemism for arousal. “Is that a wrinkle in his pants or does Enda have a Cardinal’s hat on?”

  13. Jimbo

    There are 100,000 abortions in UK centres every year. Now either there are almost 100,000 suicidal women in the UK or there are a significant proportion of them using the suicide clause as a way to use abortion as the surest method of contraception.

    Now, I know there are many who will say, don’t want an abortion then don’t have one. Don’t want a pregnancy? Then don’t get pregnant. Its hardly like it’s the 1980’s again and there are no ways to prevent that, is it?

    1. Jess

      You don’t have to have a knife at your throat to qualify to win the abortion lottery in the UK. All you have to do is talk it over with some doctors and agree that continuing the pregnancy would be harmful to your mental or physical health, not your life.

      There is no 100% guaranteed method of preventing pregnancy short of a locked steel chastity belt. Abortions will always be needed by at least some few women so long as this remains true.

      1. Jimbo

        But is it failing so badly that there is a requirement for anything up to 25% of pregnancies that have to be aborted.

    2. Rory

      The UK abortion law does not require suicidal intent. There is a persistant lie that legislating for the X Case here is exactly the same as the UK abortion law. This is not true at all. The UK abortion law allows termination if it would be harmful to the mental health of a member of your family (amoung other reasons). The X Case requires the woman to be willing to kill herself rather than continue pregnancy. This is a big difference.

      Legislating for X Case is *not* the same as the UK abortion law.

    3. Humans Eh!

      My good friend has worked as a NHS nurse in London since 1989. She (as am I ) is pro choice and I believe that it is purely the choice of the individual woman to control her own body.
      However,
      I remember her telling me how utterly depressing it was to see the same women turn up again and again with some even having their fourth and fifth abortion, these were not all Jeremy Kyle guests either but across all social strata. Apparently one woman had six abortions within a twelve month period (all free on the NHS) I was unaware that a woman’s reproductive system could cope with that and still continue to function but it is a sad fact of life that some people will abuse a hard won right once it is available. Anyway I imagine that is what our Dear Leader was alluding to, he should have used the tern contra-natal instead so the semantic police don’t get in a spin. Personally I have a penis so I believe that I have absolutely no right to dictate to a woman what happens to her body and any choices she makes regarding it.
      The whole debate has become a religious one and is going to be a tricky road whatever happens. But as far as the religious argument goes,
      ‘ If men could become pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament’,

      1. Jimbo

        ‘ If men could become pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament’, Probably the most awful of all justifications for liberal abortion laws.

        If its wrong with the fourth, fifth or sixth pregnancy, then why is it so right with the first?

        The whole debate has not become a religious one. That is what is thrown out there when you want to dismantle anyones argument but can’t.

        In any case my greatest point of contention with pro abortion people is that something like this could and does happen. There are records to show that 490 babies survived the procedure of abortion in Canada over the last 10 years and were left there to die. More than one of them took an hour to do so. That is not the Ireland I want to live in and it is nothing other than barbaric.

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2065670/Woman-pregnant-twins-agrees-abort-sick-foetus-doctors-terminate-healthy-one.html

        What I am saying Jess, is that 25 % of pregnancies end in termination. Are various methods of contraception so bad?

        1. Sidewinder

          No they’re not.

          Indeed I think the figures show that not enough pregnancies are being prevented in the UK. But that’s not a reason to make abortion illegal. It’s a reason for better sex education.

          Perhaps if my school had a proper sex ed program (instead of a religious text that claimed condoms were only 67% effective) then so many girls would not have had babies (or abortions perhaps). How many of the 4,000 women travelling annually from Ireland were given proper sex ed? Or have access to birth control? It’s expensive for goodness sake. Birth control costs me €300 a year. Other women require more expensive methods because their bodies react badly to certain types of hormonal contraception.

        2. Jess

          And it’s estimated that up to 75% of pregnancies end in miscarriage before the mother even knew she was pregnant in the first place.

          I don’t think any number of abortions are intrinsically a bad thing. If you want to reduce abortion numbers, focus on sex education and making birth control cheap(or, like in the UK, totally free) and widely available rather than trying to shame women for having abortions when you don’t even know anything about the circumstances that prompted them to make that choice.

  14. factoftheday

    Ah yeah I was going to buy a pack of johnnies earlier on but then I thought getting pregnant and taking heavy drugs to cause the flushing of my womb would be really convenient and a complete doddle.

  15. Rory

    Just another example of the right wing groups thinking mental health doesn’t exist, that physciatrists just make things up as they go along, that anyone can prove they are suicidal. This is the standard mental health stigma alive at the top of government. Shame on Enda.

  16. ABM

    What’s this?! Broadsheet.ie spinning a 100-response, pro-choice yarn based on a handful of Enda’s words?!

    1. Sido

      No not really –
      ABM – As a “pro lifer” can you tell me is your goal the retention of the status quo with outsourced Abortion on demand in the U.K.?

      I did ask Sirius Browne but he/she felt too intellectually incompetent to reply.

      1. ABM

        I’m in favour of profiling and random interviews at all ferry and air ports. Any woman who wants to kill her own flesh and blood needs help, not encouragement.

        1. Sido

          Thank you – Though I take it you accept that under the current legislation your best possible outcome would be a maintenance of the “status quo”.

          1. ABM

            I’m in favour of clarification of X so that qualified medical practitioners and moral experts can quickly decide how best to deal with complicated issues that can and do arise. Legislation is neither desirable nor necessary. Hard cases make for bad law and no legislation can cover all the hard cases that are yet to occur. Leave the unborn’s health and women’s health to the experts running the hospitals.

          2. The Old Boy

            I am in convulsions of laughter after reading the phrase “…moral experts can quickly decide…”

          3. Sido

            @ ABM – So you are in favour of maintaining the “status quo” and not afraid to use bold text to emphasise this.
            Whilst you would like to run a more repressive regime you realise that there might be Human Rights difficulties under EU law?7
            Get back now?

          4. Sidewinder

            What in the name of sweet baby jesus is a “moral expert”? Can your arse type? Because that’s impressive.

          5. ABM

            People like Michael Nugent from Atheist Ireland will be representing Irish atheists on January 10th. He’s a moral leader.

        2. The Old Boy

          So you’re in favour of the repeal of the 13th amendment to the Constitution coupled with a pervasive profiling register of fertile women?

          1. Jess

            Profiling and ‘randomly interviewing'(ie. harassing) women for the potential crime of totally legally travelling outside of the country for a totally legal abortion doesn’t sound like any kind of common sense I’ve ever heard of.

          2. Sidewinder

            I f***ing dare you to try and “profile and interview” me, my mum, my sisters and my nieces in an airport.

        3. Sido

          @ The Old Boy – It’s easy you could just ask young women – traveling on their own.
          Hardly an imposition – “Are you an Abortion Tourist?”

          1. cousinjack

            and then internment for 9 months
            (like the Brits used to quarantine dogs)

            Under catholic morality:
            do women have as many rights as dogs?

          1. ocbjack

            Keep all the women of Ireland pregnant all the time so none of them can ever leave us.
            Or start impregnating all foreign female visitors to boost the economy or something
            Maybe we can work this into The Gathering somehow?

  17. Humans Eh!

    @ABM
    Ah Moral Experts!
    Raping Ireland’s Children for generations.

    Seriously though, can you answer me one question? are you male or female?

      1. Humans Eh!

        Correct, but fanatics do.
        Trolls are rarely (intelligent enough to be) consistent. ABM has proven consistent . Possession of a uterus or being the owner of a penis would make a difference to how their posts can be interpreted.

        1. Jess

          Determined trolls pick a theme and roll with it. Honestly I refuse to believe anyone could be as psychopathically dogmatic and misogynistic yet almost lucid as ABM appears to be; therefore, I call troll on it.

          1. Humans Eh!

            “psychopathically dogmatic and misogynistic yet almost lucid”

            And the winner of ‘The Golden Cleric…Is…….’

  18. Humans Eh!

    @ABM
    No rape jokes here my friend, all my lovin’ would be with full horny consent! but now that we are on the subject,
    Would abortion be justified in the case of pregnancy as a result of rape?

      1. Humans Eh!

        Only if its a cardinal, being raped by a clown, (Picture it) it’s kicking bishop Brennan up the arse only better.

        If that clown was hired by a victim of abuse (countless women) by moral experts (the catholic church), protected by the same moral experts (the holy see) and the cardinal is seared by the fires that consumed the countless heretics (free thinkers) and innocent women (witches) and Intelligentsia (scientists) over the centuries that have been victims of your morality then maybe rape could be seen as kinda having a comeback comedy.
        the hell that they invented isn’t half hot enough, but you know better, y’all goin’ to heaven with other moral experts.
        Enjoy.

  19. D

    I’m pro-choice, I live in the UK. I must admit though the number of abortions here, and the reasons (convenience etc.) does make me feel a little uneasy. I know people further up the thread are arguing that people don’t use it as a form of contraception but ignoring the semantics of the fact it’s not technically contraception anyway people definitely do use it because they just can’t be bothered having the child or it doesn’t suit etc. As I said makes me uneasy, but to be honest, on balance I probably favour abortion, even if it’s simply because having the child doesn’t suit.

    Here are some UK stats – https://www.wp.dh.gov.uk/transparency/files/2012/05/Commentary1.pdf

    1. Sidewinder

      It makes me uneasy too but not because I see abortion as wrong but I see it as worrying because contraception is better for your health (in most cases).

  20. Anne

    A harlot. ha.
    Do people still use that one?
    I wonder how Enda feels about women making harlots of themselves? Very unbecoming being a total raging whore really.. ah well.

    A woman should be able to do whatever she wants with her own body.. whether that be one or 10 abortions. It shouldn’t be anyone’s business but the woman’s.

  21. Suggestion

    Ok, here’s a suggestion for all those who are worried about silly women using abortions as a cheap “get-out-of-pregnancy” clause because they’re too lazy/stupid to take contraception.

    You wouldn’t trust them to be in charge of their own body and own future.

    But would you really trust them with a baby? And the responsibility to raise and look after a child?

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