109 thoughts on “Kitty Litter

    1. ABM

      Speaking of Savita, isn’t the coroners inquiry due to start soon? Or is that being kicked to touch for another while yet? Given that Savita’s death was the impetus for this government’s moves on abortion, it’s important for the truth to come out before the government rush in to clarify X.

          1. True Kilockian

            Irishwomen do have abortions though. They have them in England. If this is going to happen it is safer for women to have abortionsas early in the pregnancy as possible (there is a moral argument for this also)

            Women’s health is at risk if their medical records do not include information about the abortion etc.

            Also it is frankly treasonous to say that we Irish are prepared to export this problem rather than confront it. It positions Ireland as a constituent nation of a broader British polity and calls into question Irish nationhood itself.

          2. Jess

            Well they should get the choice whether to occupy their mother’s body without permission or not, but since a foetus generally doesn’t challenge a carrot for self-awareness or decision-making capabilities, it’s down to the woman herself what she wants to do about an unwanted or unviable pregnancy in her own body.

          3. Jess

            I mean, personally I’d like to think I wouldn’t choose to force my mother through all the pain and dangers of an unwanted, dangerous or unviable pregnancy but I guess that’s subjective!

            Being that I was born between the passing of the 8th Amendment but before the X case judgement and subsequent right-to-travel/information amendments, it makes me deeply uncomfortable to consider that if I really had been an unwanted accident, my mum wouldn’t have been legally able to do much about it. I’m sure she wouldn’t tell me about it now, but the idea is abhorrent.

          4. SiriusBrowne

            @Jess….WOW ….comparing a child to a carrot.

            Question:
            So when to do you start campaigning for legislation that will allow you to break the spine of a child with down syndrome that you give birth to because its an “unwanted accident” with poor “self awareness and decision making capabilities” ?

            wow….you really are a horrible, horrible human being….

          5. Sarah K

            I don’t think it helps the debate to be getting into personal insults.

            Despite how much you disagree with someone’s viewpoint or how they structured their argument it is childish and doesn’t achieve anything positive.

          6. Jess

            I’m not comparing a child to a carrot, I’m comparing the self-awareness and decision-making capability of a foetus to that of a carrot, because it has neither. Foetuses don’t ‘have a choice’ because they have no capability whatsoever of doing so. Children with Down’s syndrome may have impaired faculties but they can still think and feel, unlike a foetus.

            I have and would absolutely never advocate acts of violence against children for any reason. And before you get snide, abortion is no more an act of violence than an appendectomy.

          7. Bejayziz

            Can we start sorting out the availability of Pre-Natal Screenings in this country too…

            The Irish Medical Journal (IMJ), found that only 26% of consultants had access to prenatal screening for high-risk patients, and limited access for other patients…This is absolutely ridiculous, every woman should have access to this basic scan early on in a pregnancy!

      1. SiriusBrowne

        “clarify”- probably not the best word but what Im guessing you mean is that we should have the truth quick before the government rams through completely inappropriate legislation that has nothing to do with Savita, based on a campaign of spin and emotional blackmail by the prochoice movement.
        On this, I would agree.

        1. ABM

          Clarification is infinitly more desirable than blunt legislation. Extreme cases make for bad law and no law will be able to precisely cover every moral eventuality that can and will arise. Give medical professionals and moral experts (yes, the folk who sit on hospital ethics committees and are charged with making serious, life-changing decisions) the guidelines they need to make the best decisions on the ground. Irish women and their unborn babies deserve the best healthcare in the world. Giving our hospitals the freedom to make complex decisions by way of clarification of X is infinitly preferable to allowing judges and lawyers hum and haw down in the four courts while an expectant mother lies in excruciating pain.

          1. Jess

            Exactly. Repeal the 8th Amendment and let the decision solely be between a woman and her medical professional.

    1. paul

      Well lots of the cards addressed to politicians had signatures until it was discovered (being a small country n all) that the people who were named had never written such cards. The lunatic yank element is strong in this dying minority.

  1. Zackersetu

    Lovely use of 2 …oh yes TWO… different coloured pens. Those right wing purists are obviously getting perilously close to throwing all sense of decorum and reason to the wind … Just wait, next they’ll throw in a green pen and we’ll all be in the shit then!!

    1. Scatman John

      I suppose when you’re at the opposite end of the scale to the fire and brimstone, you’re bound to be shivering.

      Poor mites.

      1. Deirdre Marie O'Sullivan

        Hardly. It was probably a baby in the womb with a sign saying “you’re killing me here, man!”, smoking a big weed joint and swigging whiskey.

  2. Kevin

    ‘Stop trying to force your despairing ideology on the Irish people’ I just don’t know how you are supposed to debate with this attitude and complete lack of self-awareness

      1. Deirdre Marie O'Sullivan

        you run and hide!!!!!!!
        These people are the strangest and crazies of the world! Run and hide!!

  3. Lee

    I’d prefer online abuse (I know this isn’t the most vicious thing ever sent), this seems an awful lot angrier and creepier!

      1. Iorek

        We form ideas of people we interact with every day.. it’s not being prejudice. Every ‘pro-lifer’ I’ve met or seen on the street holding shock images have coincidentally come across as mentalists.

        1. SiriusBrowne

          So “seeing” someone on a street qualifies you to determine whether they are a “mentalist” (your words)…..no no, thats not prejudicial at ALL.

          1. Iorek

            The fact that they are standing on a street doing nothing but holding up a ‘shock image’ to somehow scare or manipulate peoples decisions without intelligent discourse would lead me to believe they are mentalists.
            That, and their hairstyles.

          2. SiriusBrowne

            So thats ALL pro-life people is it? sooo the majority of the country stand on street corners with pictures of aborted feotuses yeah? Sure your not picking an extreme fringe and using it to paint a large number of people who disagree with you as extremist catholics….or whatever it is you think in order to insult people and save yourself from having to debate an issue you can’t win.

            Latest polling shows over 60% are in favour of legislating for x WITHOUT suicide as a reason.
            And in 2002 almost 50% of the country voted for that stance- (a bizzare combo of extreme prochoice (ivana bacik) and extreme prolife (dana) collasced to defeat it marginally). This IS the prolife position. You who seek the x-case/abortion on demand are a minority.

            To clarify you said that EVERY prolifer (so 50+ %) of the country that we live in are “mentalists” (again tastefully put).

            Is it possible that you in fact are an intolerant dilettante who is frustrated that people don’t agree with your minority opinion and you refuse to engage in debate but rather prefer to manufacture some sense of pseudo-intellectual liberal snobbery and insult on those opposed to you as ….#sigh “mentalists”.

          3. Iorek

            2002 is now 11 years ago. How on earth can you be obtuse enough to think that qualifies as evidence that ‘pro-lifers’ are in the majority in 2013? You’re a prime example of a ‘pro-life’ mentalist.

          4. SiriusBrowne

            Lol, obtuse is right- its your side that keeps referrind to a supreme court judgement from 21 years ago.
            I also referred to the latest RED C polling. I’m afraid you might be nice and warm and feeling superior inside your liberal bubble but you are wildly out of tocuh.

        1. ABM

          He also has no trouble stigmatising people who suffer from mental health problems. It’s because of attitudes like his that some people feel they have nowhere else to turn.

        2. Sido

          ABM and Sirius Browne – You come here again to spill your seed on dusty ground.

          Why is it you both ran a mile when I asked you if your goal was the retention of Abortion on demand in the UK?

          You a truly a pair of useless twats

          1. SiriusBrowne

            @Sido
            Excuse me- I didn’t run from anything. I am unaware of you “asking me this” (?!?)

            I don’t really understand your question or point. But, my view, apologies if it wasn’t clear, is that abortion is wrong in all circumstances except where it is employed to directly save the life of the mother (not including the threat of suicide because no causal link between the risk to her life and continuation of the pregnancy can be shown in this circumstance). In such cases medical professionals generally do not refer to abortion but rather life saving medical interventions- if you take this definition then you could say that I don’t think there is ever a need for an abortion. (but this is semantics)

            My goal therefore would obviously be to ensure that abortion is not legalised in Ireland and to repeal abortion laws in all other jurisdictions in the world where it is legal because it is wrong. Unfortunately, that is very unlikely to happen.

            I hope I have explained my position to you and again I reiterate that I don’t know what you are referring to above about “running away”. Also, please clarify your question because I didn’t understand the point you were making.

          2. SiriusBrowne

            Also please don’t insult people because they hold a different opinion to you. It weakens your argument and tarnishes your character and respectability. Please feel free to ask me a question if you would like

          3. Sido

            I can hardly “tarnish my character” by insulting something as disgusting as yourself now – can I?

            Then you accept that the best case scenario you can possibly get is a retention of the status quo?

            Here’s another question are you male or female?

          4. SiriusBrowne

            the best case scenario is a retention of the status quo?
            Yes. That would be precisely what I’ve been arguing for…again I don’t understand your point?

            (Just try and stay off the insulting, you sound rather silly)

          5. Sido

            What’s your problem then?
            Do you not know that Kenny was born to kneel in the shadow of a priest?

            If you accept that you merely outsource Abortion to the UK then really what you are arguing about is Catholic entitlement.
            The unborn presumably don’t know what country they are being aborted in. Unless you would have us believe fetuses have a knowledge of geography.

            Male or Female by the way?

          6. SiriusBrowne

            Honestly not being facetious here but do you follow current events? The government has announced that they intend to legislate for abortion. Without the supreme court overturning x or a referendum, this means the government will legislate for de facto abortion on demand. So to answer your question- that is my problem.

            Let me try to explain. Abortion is wrong so we should try and prevent it as much as we can. Your argument, as confused and laden with bizarre insults and hatred for the church as it is, seems to be people can obtain abortions in other countries therefore we should legalise it here.

            To extend your logic Sido, if one country in the world legalises something- every other country should immediately ignore all domestic public opinion, legal practice and legislative process and automatically legislate for this.

            Therefore, you are stating that you are in favour of legalisation of abortion, euthanasia, stem cell research, GMOs, drug use, prostitution etc in this country

            Without being rude- this argument they do it elsewhere so we should too is silly.

          7. Sido

            Let’s get one or two things straight here Sirius – I don’t hate you.
            I do resent your stupidity though.
            I find it dumb and unthinking if you will.
            You suggest and make some unusual assumptions about me in your rant.

            Silly you.
            You fail to answer my questions about your sex – so we can safely assume you are a male.
            And one who thinks females are to be treated as chattels.
            In “other jurisdictions” women are treated like equals.
            My point about religious haters like yourself and ABM is that you might just as well be that nasty terrorist bastard in Pakistan who thought it was OK to get on a bus and shoot a fourteen year old girl because she had uppitty ideas about female rights.

            Hopefully you will give some thought to what I have said. Though I doubt it.
            You are probably destined to go through your life as an intellectual cripple. It needn’t be this way!!

    1. tarfhead

      Copied from Twitter

      “Very suspicious how all conspiracy theorists are all so f**king stupif. Can’t be a conicidence is all I’m saying”

  4. Big Man

    Anti-life? Would that not mean you would want to be dead yourself? Or would you just be anti life in everyone else? Not good business for trying to sell newspapers?

    I like life. I like being alive. I love being alive in fact. But I cannot call myself pro-life cause those crazy people already took its meaning away! That makes me sad.

  5. Giggler

    ” Stop trying to force your despairing ideology on Irish people”

    I’ll decide for myself, thanks.

    I love how many of these people seem to correlate people’s beliefs on one issue abortion, to marriage, religion, family and/or life. Give me a break people. It’s like saying, oh you don’t believe in God, so you’re a hitler supporter then is it? grrrr…

    1. Jess

      Funny you should say that, there’s a regular poster on the Irish Times comments who seems to think atheism = Hitler/Stalin/Mao supporters, and will interject his peculiar obsession into every possibly relevant juncture possible, and plenty of irrelevant ones too.

      Odd chap. Even worse grasp of grammar and punctuation than the postcard-writer though, so I imagine it’s someone else. They’re a strange lot altogether, these angry pro-lifers.

  6. Hilton Sicliar

    Why am I imagining the writer with their tongue poking out the corner of their mouth and a trembling frown with the pen clutched in a fist…?

  7. Sarah K

    I am not condoning this cowardly postcard but as usual BS continue with their biased posting on the abortion debate by only highlighting the behaviour of crazy people on the pro-life side, therefore inferring that all pro-life people are nutjobs.

    No mention of the death threats that the Archbishop of Dublin received? http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-probe-threats-to-archbishop-over-abortion-3333192.html

    There are crazy pople on both sides of the fence and in between them lots of sane, reasonable compassionate and caring people on both sides of the fence. Let’s have some equal representation here please.

    1. Le Catch

      Why should Broadsheet have ‘equal representation’? This is a privately owned site. They can post what they want.

      If you are coming here looking to get an unbiased news update everyday you’re doing it wrong.

      1. Sarah K

        I’m aware of that. I read BS for other reasons than catching up on news updates. I read the actual newspapers to do that but for a site that has such a high readership and their fair posting on other issues I feel that it’s becoming a bit tiresome to always see the same bashing of the pro-life side.

        It is a private site and of course they can post what they like but their readers are entitled to represent themselves also no?

        1. Jess

          Considering most of their content seems to be passed on by readers, why don’t you send them a tip next time a pro-life journalist gets a creepy postcard from a crazy opponent? I’m sure they’d post that for the entertainment value.

    2. Mani

      Ok……..I’ll see your deaththreats agains the Archbishop and raise you the bombings of abortion clinics and murder of doctors in the US!

      I like games!

      1. Sarah K

        There are killings and violence from the pro-choice side in the US too but it isn’t reported as widely in the main stream media.

        I myself was spat at by pro-choice women when I marched in a pro-life march (not with YD may I add) as a teenager during the time of the X-case. They were much older than me and shouted horrible abuse at me. I would never behave that way towards someone on the pro-choice side. As horrified as I was I knew then as I know now that these people were not representative of the pro-choice movement as a whole.

        Likewise the crazy people sending hate mail to Kitty Holland are not representative of the pro-life movement as a whole.

        1. Mani

          And yet, as reasonable as you would claim to be you still hang on to the ‘Pro-Life’ label, one which attempts to categorise any opposition as ‘Anti-Life’.

          1. Sarah K

            Personally I don’t like labels such as pro-life and pro-choice as the issue is not black and white and too complex for a simple yes/no label. However a catch all term is one I am left to communicate my stance in easier terms.

            Not all people who are pro-life would consider someone who is pro-choice as ‘anti-life’. Don’t put the words of some in the mouths of all.

      2. rayray

        Careful, last time I mentioned the correlation between US and Irish anti-choice movements on here I was accused of parroting ‘things I’d seen on reddit’.

  8. Kdoc

    Whatever about the hand writing, I believe the text has been plagiarised. I think it was lifted from a bishop’s speech, if I’m not mistaken.

  9. Kitty

    There’s been a lot more than that! I’ve been told to “be careful” … so much money on stamps

  10. paul m

    an post would probably deliver a horses head if there was correct postage on it just to keep the business ticking over.

    “ah Mary, thats a grand auld package you’re sending off there now, must’v cost you a pretty penny. off to Kitty now is it, ah sure she’ll be glad of the care package all the same. How’s she getting on with her new job? Do you hear from her much at all?”

  11. Tony

    Last week, Lucinda Creighton was waxing on about people on both sides of the debate sending out horrible propaganda to make their point, but I haven’t seen anything from the Pro-Choice side that’s remotely as disturbing as this kind of thing. Are there examples?

  12. Kitty

    It’s actually an A4 envelope.. two of them so far I’ve received. Sealed and written on on one side. Not signed and nothing in the envelopes. So far

      1. Kitty

        Await the inquest. I stand over every syllable of the story broken on November 14th in the Irish Times.

        1. ABM

          You’re in the business of selling advertising, right?

          I look forward to the results of the coroners inquest because they’ll show what a bunch of manipulative extremists the pro-choice side really are. It’s Praveen and his double loss I feel sorry for. It’s only made worse by the pro-choice side spinning endless yarns so as to pursue the agenda of abortion-on-demand.

          1. ABM

            No I’m not calling anyone a liar. He is a man of upstanding character. I await the facts. Not some opinion piece from the “paper of record”.

      2. well

        “Cristina Odone is a journalist, novelist and broadcaster specialising in the relationship between society, families and faith. She is a Research Fellow at the Centre for Policy Studies and is a former editor of the Catholic Herald ”

        ..sounds like a truthworthy source.

        1. ABM

          From savitafacts.com: “Kitty Holland (who is the daughter of an extreme left-wing abortion campaigner, Eamon McCann) said: “All one can surmise is that his recollection of events — the actual timeline and days — may be a little muddled…”"

          1. Kitty

            The Irish Times is run by a charitable trust.
            Again, I stand by every syllable. Await the inquest – again news of which was broken in today’s Irish Times.
            It will run in March, opening next Friday for document swearing. . I have no idea why mentioning my parentage has anything to do with the issue of women’s lives. Courageous indeed of the “facts” website you refer to, to bring it up.

  13. Bejayziz

    Can we start sorting out the availability of Pre-Natal Screenings in this country too…

    The Irish Medical Journal (IMJ), found that only 26% of consultants had access to prenatal screening for high-risk patients, and limited access for other patients…This is absolutely ridiculous, every woman should have access to this basic scan early on in a pregnancy!

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