Is this your local?

Kate O’Hara writes:

I thought I would show you the new campaign Family & Life are rolling out. The dummies (top) I find particularly bewildering. Also, arguing in the pub about the abortion issue is always a great idea, eh?
On Saturday there will be a peaceful counter demo to the [Pro-life] “vigil” created by several groups who are bussing in people from around the country – titled “We have lives too”. All welcome.


Silent ‘Vigil’ Counter Demo (Facebook)

Family and Life (facebook)

205 thoughts on “Pro-Life Beermats

    1. neil

      It’s a wide campaign all over the place, not just some hardline publican’s statement.

      I’m completely open to correction, but I think beer mats are supplied to the pubs by alcohol distributors, and they’re obliged by their contract with the distributors to put them out.

        1. funman

          There is obviously a bit of money behind this one. But seriously, why avoid them? Its a view, one of several out there. As a protest, you could deliberately let some of your beer slop onto the bar. That’ll teach ’em!

          1. Kevin

            Because we don’t go to the pub to discuss life/choice issues. Some of my friends are pro-life, but I’d prefer not to have that discussion with them.

  1. Peadar

    Because everybody knows personhood is determined by your fingerprint. That’s why people with no arms aren’t allowed to vote.

  2. Blobster

    Nothing objectional in these, smart marketing to be honest, although I agree 100pc that an abortion debate in the pub is the last thing anyone wants.

    1. Ace Rothstein

      Smart marketing? If I saw this emotive crap on the bar while ordering a pint, I’d be out the door before it had settled. It might be well designed and come across as inoffensive, but that’s what the best propaganda is always like. Completely irrelevant to the X Case which is being dealt with as well.

      1. Blobster

        Smart on the part of Family and Life I should say – a pub doesn’t really want to be deterring any potential business.

      2. Graham

        Just be sure to inform the staff why. Not in a ‘giving out to them’-way, just so they can inform the manager/supplier that they are loosing out on trade as a direct desult of these beermats.

  3. domquixote

    I’m leaving any bar that has those without buying anything. I go to the pub to have Guinness forced down my throat, not religion. For the record, where’s the bar in the picture? It might save me a wasted trip.

    1. Androidious

      I dont think theres anything religous to be seen here is there ? you dont have to be religous to have a pro life opinion ….just sayin

    2. Steve

      I could be completely wrong on this but I’m gonna hazard a guess with The Globe.

      It looks like its serving area and kinda looks like George’ St outside. Do I win something? A box of beer mats?

      1. GoodCod

        The Globe doesn’t serve Beamish IIRC and the top picture certainly isn’t the Globe. I love the Globe and would hate to have to avoid it.

        1. ed

          I’m going to hazard a guess and say the top could be the Q Bar and the second is perhaps Doyles in College Green.

          1. GoodCod

            It does look like Doyle’s and the railings outside the first one are the ones at the bridge so it could well be Q-bar.

    3. Kate

      Still trying to work that one out I’m afraid. Will let you all know when my sources get back to me!

    4. Blobster

      Saying that these beermats are shoving religion down your throat is going way, way, way over the top. Fanciful.

      1. herself.there

        You don’t thing our ban on abortion, which is totally out of step with the rest of the EU, has anything to do with the states relationship with the catholic church. Neither did the former ban on contraception, the illegality of condom machines, or our late coming to terms with the concept of divorce, the magdelene laundries. No No No No, the church has always taken a back seat when it comes to issues of womens sexuality, their right to self determination and in family and reproductive matters.

          1. Blobster

            Look back through various articles on here and you’ll see that I’m not.

            I ask questions, I try to contribute to the debate…that’s all.

        1. cluster

          Blobster, to be fair, always comes across as much more reasonable than ABM. Labelling anyone with a viewpoint you disagree with as a troll is destructive to a dialogue, he does have a point in that these mats are (cleverly) not directly religious.

          It is my experience, however, that strong pro-life/anti-choice campaigns are always led by the religious. In my view, this is because their arguments don’t actually stand up to a non-religious examination.

          I would also leave a pub that had these mats.

          1. realPolithicks

            I wasn’t actually “labeling” Blobster as anything. That’s your interpretation of my question. I don’t believe he is trolling, but there is a very definite “slant” to the comments he posts.

          2. Androidious

            its not always led by religious belief , many people just see it as ending a life and it doesnt sit comfortable with them , there is no nice outcome , its a very tough debate but it doesnt make them bad people

          3. cluster

            Suggesting he is ABM is the same as labelling him a troll. ABM is an incurable, irredemable troll.

          4. woesinger

            +1 Cluster.

            I don’t agree with Blobster, but he’s never been an arsehole about his views the way ABM is.

  4. well

    Aren’t family and life one of the homophobic groups too? Bet they wouldn’t put that on a beer mat

  5. Teddy Matty Pensulia

    I don’t think I would finish my drink. No, sorry I would and promptly. Then I would leave and be unlikely to return.

  6. thesingingdetective

    The most interesting aspect I find about these pro-life campaigns is the seemingly bottomless budgets. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion – although I wouldn’t be too happy been force fed an ethos in a pub – but there just seems too much organisation and finance behind it to be a cause run from a ground swell of public opinion.

    We already know money is pouring into America but I’d buy them several pints if they showed me their budget.

    Journalists – follow the money….

    1. Blobster

      How is a beer mat force feeding anyone anything? It’s advertising. That’s all.

      There’s been lots of talk about where pro-life organisations get their money from. I suspect if there was a real story there a keen journalist would have already shed light on it.

      1. well

        Youth defence are registered in such a way to keep the info hidden , you can bet they have questionable sources

        1. thesingingdetective

          @Blobster I can’t remember seeing beer mats being used to advertise a cause before, that’s all.

          It’s very expensive what they’re doing at the moment, and it has all been generated pretty quickly (Savita was 28th October) and is gathering momentum. Most others causes budgets generally stretch to a tin of paint, a piece of cardboard and a piece of two x four to stick it to.

          And I don’t think your point that a ‘keen journalist’ would find out the truth stands up; we’ve seen countless occasions where journalists miss very obvious stories from both a combination of being under resourced, blinkered or that age old ‘someone else must have looked into it’.

          1. Blobster


            Well first time for everything I suppose.

            I would think the report and hearings on the X case would have brought all of this into the public arena again regardless of the tragedy in Galway. Presumably campaigners on both sides were preparing for this.

            I just think the constant chatter that funding for some organisations is dodgy is childish – people who make claims like that should back it up with evidence.

          2. cluster

            It isn’t childish, Blobster. The onus is on such an organisation to clearly show how they are being funded or there will always be question marks.

            The whole tenor and style of the YD campaigns smacks of well-funded, US-type misleading political advertising being employed in Ireland. It hasn’t had a beneficial impact on political discourse over there and is unlikely to do so here either.

          1. well

            Up until a few months ago they advertised donations in dollars, I will stop speculating when they become more transparent.

          2. Blobster

            So what?
            You’re confusing international support with illegal/inappropriate funding. Also, I imagine you’re talking about a different organisation to the one who’s name is printed on the beermat. (I dunno though maybe one and the same).

          3. well

            Theyre all connected maybe read into it as you seem to be talking about something you know nothing about

          4. DAN

            How is international funding/support, on an issue of domestic legislation NOT inappropriate?
            We’re not talking about anyone with expertise giving information here, we’re talking about how our country is run, outside interference is entirely inappropriate.

      2. herself.there

        At the last pro-choice meeting I was at, we were there all day but there was no lunch and there was no tea cos we couldn’t afford it. To pay for the room a bucket went around and we all donated our own cash to cover the cost. We don’t have buses running thousands of lonely grannies for a day out for the blessed virgin, printed placards for the masses, huge led screens. We don’t have media campaigns that cost 100,000’s of euro. But we have passion and integrity and we have the rights of women in our hearts. And if you are worried because we seem bigger than you, thats because we are the majority now. And its not because we have money, its because society is moving on and growing up

        1. thesingingdetective

          I would disagree with you on your outlook on this issue, but fair enough.

          But your pro-choice meeting bears no resemblance to the money being spent by the pro-life campaign at the moment (versus very little actual spend by the pro-choice movement) which certainly runs into the tens of thousands of euro’s, if not hundreds of thousands.

          This is based on the fact that I work closely with the advertising industry and the plethora of posters/videos/billboards that I see is genuinely a substantial amount.

          We can’t verify the exact figures because, as stated above, the Youth Defence et al. refuse to state how much they are spending, which in fairness they are perfectly entitled to do.

        2. thesingingdetective

          I just realised I took your comment from the totally wrong standpoint, so apologies!

          Must stop assuming everyone on the internet is against me…

    2. Rompsky

      New massive billboard on the way to work in Galway this morning. Then a big truck with the same posters driving around our business estate. This is getting RIDICULOUS.

      Would love to know where the money is coming from. This campaign is bigger than any of the EU referenda or Childrens referendum.

      Almost makes me want to donate cash to the pro choice side. I wasn’t majorly involved in this until they started forcing this stuff in my face

  7. Hector Ramires

    All we need now is for these two counter protests to meet up and kick off on Saturday…

    They’ll be all over the media complaining about the each other, rather than picking desperate days…

        1. Hector Ramires

          Don’t be worrying, they’re on their way to you… Just like your post, they’re a bit late! :-)

    1. Sharrow


      Esp when it’s known that Youth Defense have brought hurleys to demos and have harassed people?

      1. Hector Ramires

        So youth defence bring hurleys and weapons, never knew that, no defence for that (excuse tth pun). So knowing that, the pro choice want to have a counter demonstration? I rest my case….

        One side as bad as the other!

        1. Justin

          A friend of mine had his arm broken by one of said hurleys.

          you’re very busy on this post blobster. doing social media work for YD?

          1. Blobster

            No. Hope your friend reported this to the gardai. Did it make the papers? Would expect an assault at a protest like that would have made the papers.

  8. F Hyde

    If you see these, please report them to the bar if they make you uncomfortable. People I know have had great results and had posters in toilets and beer mats removed – a lot of the time they’re run by outside agencies and the bar management themselves have no input. If management don’t agree to remove them, then I’d throw them in the bin myself personally

    1. Blobster

      “The beermats are upsetting me” – directly equivalent to people protesting cinemas who show filums they deem offensive! Seriously, people are very thin-skinned.

      1. F Hyde

        That’s not a direct equivalent. You’re either a troll or genuinely have no concept of what you’re talking about. Anti-abortion bullshit on beer mats is offensive so some people. It’s treating a complex, nuanced and important issue with disrespect – and it’s an example of anti-abortion agitators throwing money at democracy and reason.I wouldn’t support a business that endorsed that, and that’s my business. Your issue with people taking offence is more than a little hypocritical. Get over it.

        1. Blobster

          Well let me see…..I’m not a troll so……heh, wait!

          Seriously – getting upset about something in the media, boycotting venues that display said media, complaining to management about the media……..more than a hint of Fathers Ted and Dougal with their “Down with this sort of thing” banner there.

      2. DaithiG

        To be fair Blobster, if I was a publican and someone complained about a beermat and left.
        I’d get rid of them. No matter what side of the debate I was on.

        In fact, that’s a great counter campaign. If you find these beermats, go to the publican, tell him “it’s a pity your pints taste so good, but I can’t stand for this nonsense” and walk out.
        Let’s go on a massive pub crawl this weekend. Way better than standing out in the pissing rain.

      3. cluster

        Your cinema analogy is way off. I would be happy enough for pubs that I don’t frequent to have YD beer mats but I woul;dn’t grace them with my business.

        If it was a pub I liked, I would let the barr staff know, just the same as if they started playing sh*te music loudly or if the Guinness was mouldy or whatever else.

  9. Louise

    I work in marketing for a bar and restaurant group and we recently had all of our posters in the ladies bathrooms ripped down and replaced with Pro-Life bullcrap. So, I wouldn’t be totally convinced the bar is to blame

    1. Richie

      Fair point but surely the bar staff/manager noticed someone laying out the mats across the bar and replacing all the stock of mats in the dispensers with theirs. Good luck getting served if they’re that inattentive in what looks like a quiet bar.

    1. Sinead

      Are you kidding me? Isn’t it enough to have pro life propaganda shoved in letter boxes and in our faces on the street? Any pub that supports any of these so called pro-life groups doesn’t deserve business and sure as fuck won’t get it from me or any of my friends.

    2. neil

      I was in a pub in Greystones last night which had them. We took a load of them and tore them up.

      (Neatly stacking the debris in a pint glass for easy cleaning of course)

      1. herself.there

        unless you tell them why, they will just open another packet to replace the ones your tore up.

        1. DaithiG

          Exactly, Tell the bartender you’ll not stay with these things lying around and leave.

          Pubs won’t waste too much time removing them.

  10. Sharrow

    Even if the beer mats and in toilet advertising is contracted out the owners/mangers I am sure can veto stuff.

    If you see them make a complaint and I would not be having a drink in any place which has them.

    Yeah but seriously the money trail needs to be followed on such things.

  11. CherrySue

    I’ll preface this comment by saying I’m 100% Pro-Choice but chances are the Pro Life shysters behind these beer mats didn’t ask for permission from the bar staff before littering the place with them. I’d rather make the management aware first and if they’re fine with it then I’d be out the door.

    It’s fairly premature to boycott an establishment based on one person snapping a few shots of an empty bar, no?

  12. Simsisgod

    Anybody notice that the city where most people are talking about the family & life facebook page is Mexico City, Distrito Federal? Badges, we don’t need no stinking badges….

  13. colmahhh

    What’s the story with most of the comments on the Family & Life page being from Spanish Speakers and people from the University of Buenos Aires etc?
    I know they have backing from the US but why do these people give a shit about our little island?

    1. Kath

      I’m going to guess its because they’re not so much interested in Ireland per se but in a staunchly catholic country going secular. If Holy Catholic Ireland goes to the devil, what hope has any god/priest fearing nation? I mean, what’s next, available birth control in the Philippines? The *horror*.

      But that’s just a guess as I’m getting old and trying not to raise my blood pressure by looking at far right hate pages *clutches chest*.

    2. Blobster

      Globalisation. Human rights issues have an international following – who knew?

      Do pro-choice organisations not try to develop links and support amongst like-minded organisations and people around the world? Who seem to be campaigning 101 to me.

      1. Rompsky

        Havent seen any pro choice billboards, mobile advertising trucks, beermats, or large scale marketing campaigns yet.

  14. Drogg

    why do counter demos always have to be peaceful? if a pro choice movement protest got violent they would certainly get more press. i can see the pictures in the paper now of a group of angry women beating a priest with hurls and some brass knuckles.

    1. missred

      “Peaceful” as in don’t scream at or really engage with the other side. the hysteria when huge groups of pro-lifers get together is pretty undignifying and the counter demo does not want to stoop to their level. I think their points will be made visually rather than with chants

      1. Drogg

        but id rather see feminists kicking a bishop up the arse. plus going by history violent protesting generally gets the point across quicker then a peaceful one

        1. cluster

          While I would like few things more than watching a group of women kicking a Len Brennan character up the ar$e, it isn’t helpful or useful to the pro-choice campaign.

          1. missred

            Yeah I’d love to see that sort of thing in a sketch show or on a meme or poster, but it won’t do us any good to engage in too much shouting at them – you’ll only get exaggerated lies on their FB page saying stupid rubbish like: “Oh woe is me, those dirty pro-aborts abused us!” and other such b**lox

  15. Neddy

    Jesus – chill out, guys. Don’t get all whiny about budgets and propaganda like a bunch of children. Agree if you want to agree, disagree if you don’t. Nothing is being “forced down your throat”. If you’re really upset, then do something about it other than commenting on a website and threatening to hypothetically leave bars.

    These beer-mats are stating facts; what’s the problem? The more education (for everybody on BOTH sides of the argument) that goes around, the better for everyone. They’re hardly hunting you down at home or stealing your rights away.

    You’re a bunch of grown-ups (I assume) and you can make your own opinions up for yourselves. Surely you don’t believe you’d fall victim to propaganda, do you?

      1. Neddy

        There may be some discrepancies between different studies, I will grant you that. But are you really going to quibble over a few days when there’s a far larger question being asked (again, by both sides)?

        Pumping blood and beating are two different things in the unique context of fetal cadio development, by the way. Again, that’s semantics and there’s something more significant to discuss. I’m not going to change my views on abortion because a heart beat begins +/- a few days depending on where you research.

        I would guess that these are aimed at people who really haven’t given fetal development much thought. “It doesn’t look like a baby til X weeks, so therefore it’s not a life and sure abortion’s grand – right?” – those people.

        1. cluster

          Yes, so they have put together a slick campaign full of nonsense dates, ‘If unborn babies had soothers’ designed to leave an image in people’s minds (after they have been drinking) of a foetus as a baby.

          It is inaccurate, unscientific and involves using shed-loads of foreign money to exploit the uneducated in order to influence the course of Irish law.

          Do you really not see any reason why BS readers might have a problem with that?

          1. Neddy

            I think that education is a HUGE part of this whole debate. The Pro-Choice side never, ever make any mention of fetal development without being prompted to do so. It’s my opinion that this is because it’s where they feel their argument falls down. Better to play the “you’re taking my choice away” card than the “it’s not really a baby yet, right guys?” card.

          2. Neddy

            And I’m all for scientific fact driving a debate, by the way. I don’t want emotions to decide this, but unfortunately neither side can really avoid getting emotions involved! It’s one of those tricky topics…

            As for foreign money and exploitation – I’d rather give the populous the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their resilience to against propaganda / mass advertising, whether they’ve been drinking or not. If we couldn’t deal with it, we’d all drink nothing but Coke all the time. Crappy example, but you know what I mean :)

          3. well

            All fetuses look similar oddly enough , elephants dolphins humans all look quite alike look up the elephant fetus project.

        2. Matthew

          What I don’t get is why they’re using this tactic. These guys are on the life-begins-at-conception bandwagon, so they clearly don’t think you need a heart, or fingerprints, or a brain or anything to count as alive.

          I’d understand if they were arguing that “life begins at some point during gestation”, but I feel that position is more associated with the pro-choice camp than the pro-life one :p

    1. Ace Rothstein

      Excuse me facts? That’s the whole issue here. There is no such thing as an ‘unborn baby’ for a start. Doesn’t exist in any medical or legal terminology. Soothers? Heartbeats? Fingerprints? Irrelevant to the legislation for the X case which is what is stimulating the current debate.

      The whole advertising drive by the pro- ‘life’ crowd thing is emotive nonsense to shift people away from dealing with the impartial facts and towards simplistic, uncritical images of cute babies.

      1. Neddy

        “Soothers? Heartbeats? Fingerprints? Irrelevant to the legislation for the X case which is what is stimulating the current debate.” – Thanks Data. I’ll be sure to run that by Geordi when he gets back from Engineering.

        They’re giving some context and food for thought. Nobody is lobbying for the manufacturing of fetal soothers for in-utero implantation.

        Regarding the advertising drive, I agree with you. They are pulling on the heart-strings. But I think this whole debate is one that can’t be settled with cold, hard facts which is why it’s one so close to everyone’s hearts. If Pro-Lifers don’t want abortion to happen, what angle would you suggest they take? [not rhetorical, I genuinely am asking!]

        Those in favour of abortions make arguments for things like “What about the woman’s choice?” and “Terrible that she has to travel on an airplane”. What are those, if not emotive nonsense too, when scrutinised under your very own rules? Flying on a plane while pregnant is hardly akin to massive trauma, so that would too be an emotion-driven argument.

        I hate the word “unborn”. It doesn’t make any sense; it’s not like the baby was born and then magically un-born. It always makes me think of “undead” too, but that one makes sense :)

        1. cluster

          ‘What about woman’s choice?’ and may be emotive but they are accurate summations of an argument in favour of a position.

          The posters above are deliberately dishonest. There is a difference. To my mind it is the same difference as advertising 100% beef burgers as being juicy and tender and advertising horse-beef burgers as 100% beef.

          1. Neddy

            Sorry, I don’t get why they’re dishonest (I’m assuming you mean the posters / beer mats and not the posters in this comments section!)? Is it because of the numbers attached?

          2. cluster

            Some examples of the dishonesty:

            The use of the term ‘unborn babies’.
            The ‘factoid’ on soothers means absolutely nothing but is there only to give a picture of a small baby sucking a soother,
            The date being wrong on when the heart begins to beat.

    1. Neddy

      You got it. Let’s also start saying “Pro-Abortion” instead of “Pro-Choice” too, while we’re at it.

    2. Neddy

      Or, if you’d prefer, we could use the moniker “Got myself in a situation whereby I am / I made somebody pregnant but I can’t deal with the consequence”?

      Obviously, I’m excluding the horrific scenarios wherein rape, etc. causes pregnancy in that comment. They do account for a far far smaller percentage, however.

      1. cluster

        “Got myself in a situation whereby I am / I made somebody pregnant but I can’t deal with the consequence”?

        What is your point here? It happens; married couples who thought they were infertile, split condoms, teenagers who got drunk and made a mistake, rape, abuse….

        Whatever the cause, trying to punish such mothers helps no-one. Pointing out that they could have practiced abstinence doesn’t work. It didn’t even work when the power of strict sexual morality was at its apogee in Ireland. Society needs to be able to deal with unwanted pregnancies however they occur.

        1. Neddy

          It’s not punishment. You have sex, you run the risk of getting pregnant. Simple as. You should be grown up enough to deal with the consequences. I really don’t see how anyone can argue with that. I’m not saying everyone should practice abstinence all the time of course (life would be pretty boring), but it’s a cold inalienable fact of being a mammal. Teenagers get drunk and make a mistake – don’t get drunk and make a mistake in the first place. Deal with your actions.

          I don’t think that society needs to be able to deal with unwanted pregnancies however they occur; I believe society needs to UNDERSTAND the potential consequences of having sex. I guess that’s where we differ in opinion.

          1. cluster

            I agree that people should not make mistakes, they should never take drugs that leave them incapacitated, they should always understand the consequences of their actions, they should never be led astray, they should never have an unsuccessful vasectomy, they should always accept that the pill is not 100% effective, they should never be raped, they should never become sick while pregnant, they should never have children with a dead-beat dad….

            Face facts, humans are human. They f*ck up sometimes or sometimes things are made difficult for them. Trying to Force them to have children when they dont want the child is bad for all of us.

          2. Eve

            In the same vein of argument, you shouldn’t expect to be cared for medically if you get into a car crash, since you should take responsibility for having chosen to be in a car in the first place.

            Makes sense. Right.

          3. jean

            Abortion IS a consequence. It’s a surgical procedure that costs a substantial amount of money, and for Irish women, also requires travel and further expense. There is no consequence-free option for an unwanted pregnancy.

          4. Ki

            “don’t get drunk and make a mistake in the first place” – I genuinely find it bizarre that anyone can see the world in such black and white terms. “Just don’t make mistakes.” That simple is it? Wow…

  16. Bliao

    Beer up, lower defenses, have babies!

    Quadruple Pernod and black anybody?

    Excellent use of mixed messages there from the pro-life lobby.

    1. Neddy

      That was you who said that, not anyone else. There are actually people out there capable of having “just a few” pints and heading home, y’know. Hard to believe, I’m sure.

      1. Bliao

        So you are saying having “just a few” pints and heading home leaves one in full control of their faculties?

        You should tell the anti-drink driving lobby how wrong they have been!

        1. Neddy

          So, *you’re* saying that bees are made of tin and are the leading cause of testicular cancer in pygmy-shrews?

          No, I’m not saying that. Why do you think I’m saying that? I didn’t mention anything even close to that. I didn’t use the words “full”, “control” or “faculties”.

          1. Bliao

            Read my initial comment and pay focus to “lower defenses”, read your response and connect the dots.

            And everyone knows tin bees are the root of all cancers, not just that restricted to the nether regions of pygmy-shrews. Duh.

    1. Rompsky

      Blobster on February 1, 2012 at 11:51 am said:
      Personally I don’t have a problem with these. What’s the problem with these verifiable facts and one (kinda) catchy slogan “Life is Precious”?


      1. Blobster

        I did. Because I saw the post on BS and decided to comment.
        (Have I been here that long?)

  17. laura

    They had these a couple years ago too, the barman at International Bar put them out without looking needless say the regulars gave out stink and they were removed.

  18. cluster

    I have another proposal that the pro-life lobby should adopt.

    Forced kidney donation for men.

    It would work like this. All men are signed up to a register (Big Phil could draw this one up) and if a kidney is required for which yours is a match you will be contacted. You will immediately undergo a living kidney transplant. Remember you only need one kidney and you are helping to prolong a precious life. The men selected as donors will only have to give up work for 6 weeks.

    We could even do beer mats, with questions along the lines of, ‘What proportion of people awaiting a kidney transplant die before receiving a kidney? 10%.’

  19. Conor

    Just looking through the comments here and quite a few of them are about women and their rights to their own body. erm ; isn’t a foetus a body too?

      1. Conor

        Well that’s rude, to call a foetus a spanner. I mean, should I presume instead that you were calling me a spanner whilst avoiding a simple question because you know that a foetus is life?

    1. DAN

      So’s an amoeba, the point is which takes precedence, in terms of rights, does a non-sapient organism or a fully grown human have more rights?

  20. Stephen Lane

    Everyone seems to be getting a bit hot under the collar but I havent seen anyone contradict the content of the beer mats.

    Anyone want to argue that a baby’s heartbeat doesn’t kick in 18 days after conception? No? Anyone?

    Anyone want to argue that baby’s dont suck their thumbs in the womb at week 12? No? Anyone?

    Naaah – didnt think so. Lets all get uppity about beer mats whilst avoiding the substance of the matter to hand.

    1. Eve

      No, I’m pretty sure no one would be getting ‘uppity about beer mats’ if it weren’t for the content of them.

      The general issue with the pro-life campaigns is not whether they have access to foetal development timelines or not. It’s that they tend to solely focus on the foetus, whilst ignoring the rights of the woman carrying said foetus.

      AKA Don’t be so literal.

    2. DAN

      Ok, let’s go for the substance, does an unconscious, non-sapient organism have more rights than a grown human? I’ll go for the human.

  21. SiriusBrowne

    Why do you say “peaceful” are you implicating that the pro life vigil will not be peaceful?

    Why do you put the word vigil in commas? What is your problem with that word?

  22. agh!

    This is absolutely disgusting. These people are completely shameless. I just visited the Family and Life fb page in the link above and it is a demented hodge podge of religious zealots being strange in a variety of ways, ranging from open hatred of anyone who agrees with any sort of abortion, to Mexicans asking for prayers for family members who are having their wisdom teeth pulled, to old white americans lending their support and encouragement for the pro-life cause from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. Thankfully, there are a good few moderate pro-lifers in there speaking up, saying they aren’t generally in favour of abortion but at least support the upcoming legislation and are disgusted with the extremist pro-lifers tactics.

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