Taking It Back

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90312241 90312239   90312242Like bosses, in fairness.

This afternoon at Kennycourt Stud, Co Kildare.

Eamon Farrell writes:

Charlie Allen (yellow waistcoat) of the Rodolphus Trust leading about 250 people to retake the Kennycourt Stud Farm in County Kildare from receivers acting for IBRC (formely Anglo Irish Bank). The group cut through chained fences and removed the security men and their cars from the farm…

New Land War! Fight!

Previously: Middle Ireland Fights Back (Irish Examiner)

(Eamon Farrell/Photocall Ireland)

Update:

90312247 90312249The gates outside Kennycourt Stud the morning after.

Brehon Law?

430 thoughts on “Taking It Back

      1. Praetorian.

        You already are with USC,Household charge,property tax,incoming water rates and dont forget the new telly box reciever whatsit charge.
        So yeah…you’re paying his debt.

          1. jo porter

            hi, please bear with me, there is real people here, and children, stand with me with the irish people, against the government and the banks, although i dont know which is which, we need our country back, lets alll do it together at every opportunity, every where we can. comeon common common, if you are ever in trouble, im your man, i wont ask you any questions, no judgement, ill be there.

          2. jeqk

            Stud farms were tax-free from mid-70s to August 2008 thanks to Charlie Haughey. the guy sure knew how to look after his pals, eh?

        1. Paul Coyle

          I too benefited with Charlie Haughey (not a fan of his) regime on Tax Free Royalties for a invention..
          this system was originally set up to help companies retain profits for reinvesting in Ireland,I did this for 10 years.
          now I export 1.6mil per year employ 40+ people.

          Ireland’s Stud Farm industry is one of biggest in the world probably helped by this regime.
          this contribute massively to Ireland in indirect Tax
          anyway the corporation Tax is not a big contributor to Ireland at just 12% for companies but can be lower with research credits.

          Whats wrong with that?

    1. Original Cynic

      Evicting families who have lost their incomes from their homes and repossessing the assets of a failed business are completely different situations.

      This “Trust” sounds to me like failed business people banding together to protect their privileged lifestyles!

      1. Gerry

        It’s a business like any other. If it is run well in a favourable environment, it makes money for someone. If not it loses money. What have you got against this business? Would you prefer that it was a corner shop, local post office, a farm or a factory? They are all businesses. Somebody owns them and hopefully is making money from them. Don’t hold that against them. Without people running businesses there would be no money in the country.

        1. cluster

          If we are to pay for his stud farm, we should be given a proportional share in the ownership.

          I am supportive of stud farms just like any other business. I just am not willing to pay off their loans for them.

        2. Joe

          It is workers labour that creates money (exchange value) – not businesses who make profits off the surplus.

          And before you say it, businesses aren’t job creators – human requirement is all that should be required.

  1. Durt

    Sweet, I don’t fancy paying off the rest of my car loan, I might stop paying off my credit card bill. Will these dudes march down the bank with me?

    1. jo porter

      i wont ask you how much you owe, or who you owe it to, if you are being brought to court by an illegal justice system, being tortured by phone calls from banks who have no licences to lend in this country, ill be there for you. no questions asked, whether you have sky or not.

      1. SwayingRight

        Hi Jo,

        What happens if we all default on our loans? Will anyone in the country ever be able to get a loan again? Why was it illegal for the banks to lend to this man or to lend in general?

        1. Paul Coyle

          Bank evict Eugene McDermott = its now our problem they simply whas their hands,we have to rehouse and support Eugenes Family,time to wake up everybody.
          Banks in Bed with Eugene her let the Banks resolve this without it being our problem.

          1. SwayingRight

            Paul, that’s not an answer to any my questions. Please stop telling everyone to wake up without explaining what we need to wake up from.

            McDermott’s house was not part of the repossession but even if it was it will cost the State (i.e. the Irish People) less in the long run if this man were to be evicted.

            If somebody takes out a loan they should repay it.

            What about all the suppliers that are owed money for providing services and good, should they be burned too? For example a miller who provides animal feed – should payment on that animal feed be written-off.

          2. Paul Coyle

            Should repay if it a level playing field in commerce,yes I agree, but that is not what is happening,this is his family life work over 6 decades,if the Banks get it there will be no advantage to Ireland.the Bank need to fold like any other business,why should banks get special treatment and not Eugene? also Eugene will contribute to Ireland commerce the Banks will not for at least 20-30 years.Did you read the papers today the Banks are getting more special treatment with their losses,Its time to WAKE UP.

          3. Paul Coyle

            also Eugene doe not owe any feed suppliers or other small businesses,his suppliers and staff support his actions.

  2. ivan

    i’m no expert on trusts but I’m not sure that putting a property with a mortgage into a trust gets rid of the mortgage. The ownership might change but that’s about it.

    As for ‘getting off our knees’, this trust, with assets of two billion and 2000 members, is hardly made up of the plain people of Ireland.

    1. donnchup

      Oh! So they are’nt actually impoverished 19th century evicted peasant farmers..really? What! They’re just chancers trying to get their mortgages on their investments written off!! Say it isn’t so…

    2. Shane H

      Yeah, this trust business won’t work. You can’t transfer the ownership of a mortgaged property with the lender’s explicit permission.

      1. Paul Coyle

        What you say is normally correct in normal economic times.but Broken Banks have and are allowed to operate even though they are broke far beyond repair and have caused enough damage.

    1. harry price

      Ì did not buy any race horses and water way ireland tried to evict me without having ownership. this country is now run by a junta and its great to see the common people stand up for the irish constitution and it rules

      1. SwayingRight

        Hi Harry,

        Can you give some context please? Do you have an unpaid debt with that company? Did you offer your property as security for a loan? Why did they try and evict you?

      2. cluster

        This ‘junta’ just took against you, Harry, for no reason?

        You were just working away honestly, paying your taxes, bills and paying back any debt owed?

  3. Cian

    Guaranteed a suitable selection of these will be up in Naas DC for criminal damage and trespass by Monday.

    Also, a stud farm owner isn’t really something that sane people are going to consider a hard case / in need of help ffs. Pick your battles properly.

  4. Sidewinder

    Poor stud farmer. I mean the price of prize stallions these days, how’s a simple man to pay for his kids’ private education?

    It’s a tragedy.

    1. Gerry

      Ireland is known for the quality of its horses. The business has brought many millions into the country. Are you suggesting that we should shut down this industry or that we should only have poor people running the industry? Neither choice makes sense to me. Maybe you would suggest another option.

      1. cluster

        There is a big difference between shutting down the industry and not giving random speculators farms for free. You see that, right?

  5. Alex Francis

    So Eugene McDermott borrowed upward of 7 million euro, can’t repay the monies and the bank repossesses in order to recoup the lending.
    Idiots like McDermott and this outlaw organisation deserve to be pilloried

  6. john

    It really is a shame reading the above comments that none of you seem to understand what is going on.

    This is not about some chancer who is trying to get off of paying his debts.

    This trust was set up to stand up too the banks and the courts.

    For far too long they are the ones who have been acting illegally and we all moan about it but do nothing.This mans loan has been paid off to the banks already.

    Please start educating yourselves and open your eyes to what this is all about which is standing up for Irish people who are being evicted from their homes by banks which aren’t even controlled by our government but instead by Europe which couldn’t care less if we lose our homes as long as they get their money.

    Forget about this stud owner and ask yourself if you were in this situation would you fight for your home or just abide by what crooked banks are telling you.

    This trust hasn’t broke any laws it is the banks who are breaking the laws.Hence why the Gardai haven’t been able to do anything as the trust hasn’t acted illegally.

          1. Sgt. Bilko

            But there is a lawfully appointed receiver, as per the clear and unambiguous terms of the deed of charge or mortgage freely executed by the borrower. A swift injunction application will soon have this filthy rabble out on their holes.

      1. Paul Coyle

        this particular receivers deed of appointment is not valid not comply with Law and is therefore not a valid appointment

        1. Zod

          “common law” and “brehon law” are nonsense peddalled by woo woo merchants to try and squeeze money from people in desperate situations.

        1. FlockBuster

          The people that he owes the 8 mill just want to salvage what’s left of the failed investment, the mansion is secure, his cars are still in the driveway, his armani suit is looking fresh..
          However, this story is being sold as a great victory, halted an eviction, saved a family home, prevented this poor (failed business)man from a life on the streets.. which isn’t true, there was no threat to his castle, only an orchard he promised a lot of gold for, to make the garden look nice.. let them protect the apples, just don’t pretend to the servants they saved the castle :)

          1. Paul Coyle

            Most of the people there yesterday where the ordinary people you speak of.you are confusing this guy with the people who have sold us out to Banks and by poor Government,this man is small business the BACK BONE OF IRELANDS current Taxable funding.

    1. Alex Francis

      You’re saying Eugene McDermott has paid back the 7 million in borrowings in full, yet IBRC has acted illegally by seizing his property??
      If you can show this, emphatically with documentary proof, I would support you 100% as would any right thinking person. So lets see it. Link us to the the facts please

      1. Paul Coyle

        No Im saying he and his family have contributed to Ireland growth over 6 decades and put 10s of millions into our country,now hes in trouble,hes getting our support,we need people who create money not Banks who put a whole society into hock and seem to want to continue to destroy Ireland at the behest of Private Bond holders,the Game is not fair as the Government has interrupted normal course of commerce by propping up corrupt Banks and forgetting those who we need to most for the future wealth generating.

        1. Alex Francis

          He and his family have contributed tens of millions in the past but this time round he borrowed 8 million euro and can’t pay it back.
          Stop with your nonsense. You borrow you pay back. If you can’t, whatever you put up as guarantee is used. That’s reality.
          The likes of Eugene McDermott isn’t the solution to Irelands problems, he’s the root cause.

          1. Paul Coyle

            The facts are clear the Banks have conned us all,we need to fight them every way possible,on every front.give nothing up to them.these times are unusual ,normal commerce does not apply and wont until we make a stand.its us against corrupt Bank who have acted in a criminal manner.

          2. Alex Francis

            The facts are not clear Paul and you are doing a terrible job presenting your total lack of facts.
            Eugene McDermot took a huge loan of 8 million euro off (which bank?) and is now unable to service it. The bank is now taking the property he leveraged the loan on. Grow up, move on, and try to have more business acumen in the future.
            If the ‘facts’ are different to this, put the case into a blog or website in chronological order and let people make up their own minds.
            Otherwise your rabble rousing and ‘come all ye’ gobbledygook will fall on deaf ears.
            The cornerstones of revolution are ‘educate, agitate, organise’. Just saying ‘the banks are bad’ & ‘we need to rise up’, is empty hyperbola if you can’t substantiate it.
            Wise up Paul

          3. Paul Coyle

            Alex,I don’t care what you think if you cant be at least courteous.
            The Bank was Anglo,yes he owes them the money.
            But this Bank has played a major role in Breaking Ireland.
            What do you say we all role over and allow them to continue to destroy lives?
            what is more important Life or Debt to criminal organisations?

          4. Alex Francis

            How have I been discourteous?
            Individuals taking out 8million euro loans and being unable to service them are responsible for ‘breaking Ireland’. If there are facts to the contrary, present them in a coherent fashion

          5. Alex Francis

            I didn’t insult you Paul. I said you were talking nonsense and gobbledygook, that’s not an insult, it’s a fact

          6. Paul Coyle

            what about you Bilko,got anything worth contributing,or are you another one these guys who feel great behind a keyboard but when it come down to action ????? or even credible conversation?

          7. Paul Coyle

            Bilko ,not sure what you mean by producing a link to a site whitch may apply to those in the Trust,but I am not a trust person and don’t want to be.im not advocating the trust to anybody,I dont believe it will be successful,do you have me confused with someone else?

  7. gerard

    surely this is about stopping evictions no matter who the person is.the banks gave the loans.and probably had no license to do so.

    1. SwayingRight

      Hi Gerard,

      It would be better to know for definite whether or not the bank had licenses to give out loans. You are just speculating that they didn’t.

      Also I disagree that all evictions should be stopped. If somebody made an agreement to take out a loan and repay that loan then they should honour their commitment.

      1. Paul Coyle

        I agree with this, but unfortunately the current situation is not normal commerce as bust Banks have been permitted to continue when they should have been let fall,we need to return to normal commerce,where business fails and is not propped up distorting the natural flow of commerce.

        1. cluster

          Whether the bank was propped up or not, his debts would still have been owed in full.

          The banks would have been bought up by vulture funds who would have hounded this guy much more than the banks are doing.

    2. cluster

      Why would we want to stop all evictions no matter what?

      If he can’t/won’t pay his debt, pleb like me who is working away, renting my accommodation, will have to pay for his stud farm instead. Is that what you are suggesting?

      1. Paul Coyle

        Why do you think you will be paying his debt,them Banks are gone we are not getting our money back aib alone is broke beyond 50billion.
        The money is gone,gone,gone.

        all we have is what we have,If Eugene continues in his business he will contribute more than the BANKS HAVE.

        1. cluster

          Nope, somebody else can buy the stud thereby mitigating the losses the taxpayer is sucking up as a result of Anglo/Harry’s stupid bit of business.

          That person can then pay tax on their earnings.

          1. Paul Coyle

            Ok,
            But what happens to Eugene or people evicted from their homes?
            They more than likely will become a burden on my Taxes.

          2. cluster

            It is not proposed to evict Harry from his home.

            That is my understanding from the media reports. Are you suggesting otherwise?

            The dole is 165 euro a week, so worst case, that is 17k between them a year. They would have to live half a millenium before that cost would outweigh what they owe.

  8. Noel

    There’s always one. Or two in this case. Picture 2 and 4 have persons with tablets taking pictures.

      1. john

        Please tell me for what.

        They haven’t done anything wrong hence why they weren’t arrested.

        Please could you enlighten the whole country why they should be arrested

          1. john

            the property belongs to the trust the receivers are trespassing.

            as regards criminal damage the property belongs to them to do as they please with it.

            If what you state is true then they would of been arrested on those charges but they were not

          2. Paul Coyle

            There is no court order on this property it is Still in Eugene Mc Dermotts name on Land Registry,so who trespassing?

          3. damiangibney

            what may look like an assault was a simple case of self defence i was right beside the lads in the photo

    1. dermot murphy

      Does it really matter who owes what,or how much to who.The bottom line here is,an Irishman and his children got turfed out of his house,by an English Receiver.Before anyone here starts on about anti english this and that,I really dont care if it is a German,Russian,Chinese,or whoever the hell it is,when I get a call to help one of my fellow countrymen needing help,I will respond to their help cries straight away.Look at fingleton,Bertie,and all the other lot who owe millions.To most of the begrudgers on here,maybe someday I will be called to help one of you in distress.I wont refuse your help because of money you may owe,but solely due to the fact that you need help.Finances can be sorted out with banks afterwards.Wake up for Gods sake,switch off RTE,and get the real news.You all may think we are on the road to recovery,oh,never mind,watch what transpires soon,very soon……..

      1. Firstname Lastname (You caught me; it's Ella)

        There’s a fierce samey-ness about the Way some of ye talk,and punctuate.

      2. cluster

        I don’t care about the nationalities involved.

        If mortgages can’t be foreclosed when the holder refuses to pay his/her debt, then mortgages can’t be issued.

        1. Paul Coyle

          Do you want to post the following in my name:
          Cluster,
          Your taxes and mine are not being spent for the purpose they were collected, they are with the exception of a small amount, being spent on servicing the 64 billion plus Bank Bailout debt, I don’t intend to go into the Banking Disney World, all of the comments above have an element of truth, some more than others, the common denominator is the reckless, greed filled, and in some cases fraudulent conduct of the Banks which has been condoned and encouraged by Government who are protecting their own positions.
          Every entity that had a duty of care to the ordinary taxpayers of Ireland failed in that duty, now they want the ordinary joe to pay the price, if one has property, they have perpetrated the conditions where less and less borrowers can fulfill their payment schedules, they are not in default of the loan term itself and no consideration is being given to the improvement in economic conditions we are promised and bombarded with now on a daily basis, if things are going to improve at the level we are being told then it stands to reason that borrowers should be given time to recover in the same way the Banks have been given time ( and plenty of money) after all the banks caused the problem in the main.
          If one doesn’t have a loan then the attack comes in the form of many many tax increases, in the main, stealth taxes which chip away and erode quality of life while blaming it on people like the family involved in the above matter, its a victory on more than on front for the Banks and Government, divide and conquer and collect the cash.
          One could then be really unfortunate and have a mortgage and a job, middle Ireland, the coping classes, the pain is virtually unbearable, battling to make ends meet with no help and ever diminishing resources.
          I would advocate less nit picking of people’s language and grammer/ spelling, ( which can be down to the device they are using) and more understanding, plus education so we can truly understand who the enemy is, accepting the status quo and the old reliables has now. well and truly, been proven wrong.
          Chat conversation end

          1. cluster

            This is all raimeis.

            I am very unhappy that we bailed out (rightly or wrongly under the circumstances) the banks.

            I am not willing to follow that up by bailing out every two-bit, wheeler-dealer in the countryside who gambled and lost.

      3. John

        I’m from N.Ireland and can say that most of the people on here has no clue to what they are saying and only stating common law which are acts of the law and is not the real law of the land. Governments and banks (worldwide) are as one and are run by side kicks (underground) assholes if you like. Who has us paying for 2inch of earth towards land rates that they do not owe, water that is filled with cancer (asbestos water pipes) “don’t take my word, ring them yourself and ask” car tax and wow to much to place on here… Bottom line is they don’t give one toots ass about anyone of you or I and your right “Finances can be sorted out with banks afterwards” however the banks will go straight too Carlyle group for the sale watch this -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXfjd1ffpQ8&feature=share&list=SP7Vq61pMJqQCczPbX3UVcWiK1WZyY4bm2

  9. Bacchus

    I’m all for ordinary decent people standing up for what’s right but this isn’t about them or that.

    1. john

      the uniform was to make him stand out no other reason

      He is no arsehole just standing up for your rights, mine, and everyone else’s rights in this country

          1. cluster

            We have bailed out the banks but there are very few people happy about that.

            Our govt. decided that we should bail out the banks for the good of greater financial stability (or allegedly for other reasons – ECB pressure, Cowen’s bluff backfiring, bad advice from bankers, inappropriately close relations with bankers etc.)

            How right or wrong they were will be debated for a long time to come.

            None of this means that the taxpayer should start assuming the debt from every mortgage holder in the country.

          2. Paul Coyle

            you people don’t get it yet.

            we are not putting any more money into the Banks its not permitted under Eu regulation.

            The money we have put into Banks Nama, Ibrc is gone and will never be repaid.
            Aib alone is out 50 billion.

        1. john

          Correct this case is not about that.

          Banks have ran up debts they have been bailed out by us.

          This debt has been sold and resold and traded into oblivion.Educate yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitization

          Right now we as a nation when we pay a debt it isn’t going to any Irish bank there is no such thing they are skeltons for Europe.

          This whole trust is about questioning the right of banks reclaiming properties that they have already more than likely got their money back on.

          As I have said it could be a complete waste of time but for christ sake if it works it changes everything for all of us and will result in us giving the two fingers to investors who are making money out of all this misery

          1. damiangibney

            the money came from the banks as they have none to give since 2004 they where bankrupt as far back as that

        2. Drogg

          Rich farmer runs up debts, then gets new age hippies to defend him when he makes a mess of his investments. The reason they weren’t arrested is because the gardai don’t want a huge riot on there hands. In the next week the gardai in riot gear will call at the homes of the leaders of this farce, at 4 in the morn and arrest them. The banks f**ked a lot of stuff up, but so did idiots like this man who took huge loans and didn’t repay them. I don’t have to worry about this happening to my home cause I make sure I pay my mortgage every month and if I didn’t know I could, I never would have got one.

          1. Paul Coyle

            The reason the Garda could act is because it is Civil matter not Criminal,no court order.
            You are not paying this mans debts you are paying for a poor decision by Brian Cowen,the money is gone and wont be coming back our Banks are broke beyond repair they will never pay us back what we put in.every cent they get is lost from YOU AND ME,If Eugene keeps his Farm you and I will benefit via Business paying wages supporting local community taxes,Vat etc just like any small business.

          2. cluster

            Paul, if this farm is repossessed, it will be sold to somebody else who will operate the business.

            We already give tax incentives to stud farms. I have no desire to support this farm any further.

      1. PK

        Muppet. You know if I put a copy of the title of your house into my trust, it doesn’t mean it belongs to that trust?

        1. Paul Coyle

          you are probably correct about the Land registry title,I don’t hold much faith in the trust either,but yesterday was more about people stand up together against Banks.

          1. bruce01

            Why do you keep blaming ‘corrupt banks’? It was people, corrupt people. I think you may need to wake up, realise that dishonesty has got us this far, and accept that what you want to do is just as dishonest as what those running your ‘corrupt banks’ did.

          2. Paul Coyle

            currently it is not a level playing field the Banks are insulated from Bankruptcy but we are not!!
            under normal circumstances I would agree with you.

        2. Paul Coyle

          For me Its not about one Farm its about beating corrupt Banks,I will stand with anyone who fights Banks,I met some people yesterday who live on the edge daily,it was great to see them smile.
          That is what it is about.

          1. cluster

            You are not fighting the banks.

            The banks have effectively become rolled up with the state. You are fighting ordinary taxpayers.

          2. Paul Coyle

            not True.
            The Banks have been BAILED out and cant get any more,under new Eu regulations.
            Ah I hear you think, but we own them now.
            again no true we wont be permitted such involvement in banks shortly.
            all the money we put in will never come back its gone gone.

    1. john

      Jd going to guess Karl deeter

      You are correct the document proves nothing what happens in court will be the proof.

      1. Always Wright

        John, this is obviously something about which you have strong feelings, but you’re going to have to use some punctuation if you want to get your point across. I keep trying to make sentences out of your word-salad posts, but I can’t get them to make sense. What does “JD going to guess Karl deeter” mean? Is ‘deeter’ a verb? Help me to understand.

        1. john

          @ Always wright

          Cheers for highlighting my punctuation weaknesses (even if I do so myself)

          This is something I feel strongly about.

          However like everyone else I don’t know if this will work or fail.It is making me angry that people seem to think they are a bunch of chancers. They potentially risk going to jail for pursuing what they believe is correct.

          The attitude on here so far seems to be just to let the banks do as they please and we all just stay sleep walking into homelessness.

          The banks are being challenged about the legality of what they are doing by the people for once.

          These men should be applauded for making a stand and putting their necks on the line and reputations.

          Christ we have elected mp’s in the Dail who are getting paid crazy amounts of money and not acting in this country’s best interests and we just moan about them and do nothing.

          Now there is groups like these trying something different and we are moaning about them does not make any sense to me

          1. Robocop

            They are worse than chances. They are truly despicable people and I don’t say that lightly. They’ve already cause huge damage to ordinary people with their unpaid debts. Entitled Bullies.

          1. john

            Hi Karl,

            As you have been against this trust from the start

            Just wondering can you explain to me and everyone else here why these people haven’t been banged up in jail already if they are so wrong.

        1. cluster

          You white-collar criminals are never ‘banged up in jail’ unfortunately.

          There is a lot of loose talk about the shame and failures of the Irish govt and institutions. The one that I whole-heartedly agree with is that the system can jail a working class youth for a minor robbery but is seemingly unable to touch scumbags in suits and jodhpurs.

    1. john

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitization

      This has got nothing to do with Eugene mcdermott I wish people could understand that hence why he wasn’t at the property or mentioned in the papers.This is all about a trust protecting a property they believe is their’s and not the banks.

      Time will reveal who is correct and who is wrong not what my opinion is or anyone else’s on this forum or on any other.

      So lets all keep an open mind and see what happens

      1. Sgt. Bilko

        Whether they believe it or not, they’re wrong. Samples of the deeds of trust being used are circulating on the internet, they’re completely laughable, it’s cargo cult nonsense.

        The principles underlying securitization are well recognised in Irish law and by our courts, just because a handful of sub primes in the US made a bollix of their paper work doesn’t have any impact in this jurisdiction whatsoever.

          1. Paul Coyle

            Sorry left school when was 14 never got to grips with spelling.

            Good comment though!
            I take it you have nothing further contribute other than being our spell checker!!

  10. Paul Coyle

    Today is a great, brings another damaging day for Banks,
    Some people say McDermott owes the money to the Bank,the truth is the Banks have been paid many times over.
    Eugene Mcdermott His Father and His Grand father have contributed 10’s of millions to Ireland over the past 6 decades.

    The Banks are ripping us all off every day and its time we stood up against them.
    Remember if we didnt have to pay the interest on our Bailed out Bank Debt, we would are 2 billion above national Debt.

    I does seem like there is no end to money Banks need and its not helping us any.

    The Banks they say we own are not and will not contribute to US in the next 20 yeas.all that is happening is commerce is distorted by the unnatural support of these Broke institutions,let them fail we will survive they will be replaced.

    1. Robocop

      Whatever happened the banks he still owed the money. In your world who gets to have their debt written off?

      1. john

        Bank of Scotland lend him 8 million

        he stops paying his loan back

        Bank of Scotland stick his loan and other bad debts into a bad investment package with other bad debts and sell it off to cover their books to other investors who purchase the debt and continue to trade it.

        They have themselves covered long ago this is the sickening part of all of this.

        We are cannon fodder to these investors who don’t care about the impact of their actions we have bailed them out and kept the bondholders happy and got nothing in return.

        You,me, and every other Irish person has been bent over and screwed by banks and these investors.This stand off is an example of us trying to fight back as pathetic as it may seem to most of you it is at least someone actually trying something different at the expense of their own reputations and character.They should be applauded for their courage even if they end up in jail.

        1. Boredwithbeingbored

          Even if Bank of Scotland did “package” his loan, do you really think they got €8 million for it “to cover their books?

          Is that how you think finance works?

          The only people being “screwed” by banks are the ones who borrowed ridiculous amounts of money without any foresight and are now being asked to pay it back.

        2. bruce01

          “we have bailed them out and kept the bondholders happy and got nothing in return”: I always wonder what people think happens when the banks of a country all fold. Where does your money go in that case? Because a lot of people use banks, every day. They are pretty important in society, rightly or wrongly. Can someone paint me a picture of the bank collapse without the bailouts?

      1. Alex Francis

        Think it’s quite easy to understand. John is talking utter nonsense and expecting us to go along with it.
        Eugene McDermott might want to get a better spokesman as this twaddle paints him in a poor light

    2. Always Wright

      Well really now, I don’t think any of these Rodolphus lads know anything about composing a sentence. Capital letters are a complete mystery to them. They appear to be barely literate yet they think we should take their rhetoric and hubris seriously.
      If you’re going to blame your bad decisions and ill-considered investments on the banks, the very least you can do is learn to express yourself clearly. This sort of rambling bile-and-spittle is all too easy to dismiss.

      1. Goosey Lucy

        Jesus, I’ve had to read most of those posts 3 times to attempt to understand what was being said, never mind the thrust of the argument.
        While I’ve had my smug/silly grammar nazi moments in the past, I at least knew what was happening. I am extremely confused: Banks are BAD? Banks have ruined the country. Banks already have their money.
        Ex-owner is GOOD. Ex-owner contributed to economy. Ex-owner took out huge loan and now feels entitled not to pay it back.
        Is that it?
        Hmmm yeah, can’t see anyone feeling too sorry for this guy or the trust.

          1. cluster

            You’ve used that silly line of ‘no meaningful contribution’ or ‘nothing to add’ on almost every poster who disagrees with you, Paul Coyle.

        1. Paul Coyle

          seem to plenty of people who think they can make dismissive insulting comments and think its going to progress what I’ve been discussing/debating for past 12 hours.

          I see you upend you game after few of these short comments

      1. ANNE

        Would you like a wife called Helen then?

        We have a right wan for you to meet. You will LOVE her (and she, you)

  11. Sancho

    God, I wish I were persuasive enough to get the mob out giving the bank a hard time about my loans. I assume most of his money is hidden at this stage in British offshore islands so how does this chap manage to convince these idiots to go out and fight on his behalf. It’s amazing if you think about it. I mean, (almost) fair play. He’s probably been lord of the mansion for years. It’s probably his fault that prices in the area are/ were so high- cos he bought it with borrowed money. Yet, somehow, he’s convinced a large bunch of people to go out potentially get arrested, and support him. And then he has another group who go online to defend him. Amazing. Guy borrowers €8 million, pledges security, defaults, bank tries to takes security and these idiots think he’s been wronged. He must be really persuasive. Probably how he got the loan in the first place. Though he really should have convinced them to give it without recourse- then I’d actually respect him.

    1. Dhaughton99

      Not to mention the words ‘Rodolphus Trust’ and the yellow waist coat stinks of lord of the manor stuff.

  12. NBK

    How hypocritical is this? Marching to reclaim land previously owned by someone who borrowed €7 Million to stud horses, yet berating property developers who borrowed millions to build housing estates. Can somebody please explain how one is better than the other? Or is this just an example of hypocracy and stupidity within the Irish electorate? People screamed blue murder about property developers and how they should burn in hell etc etc, and people laughed smuggly as each of them went to the wall and lost everything (including their homes), but then they pipe up to the tune of The Fields of Athenry while they rally around a failed horse stud farmer (whose home wasn’t even threatened).

    1. Always Wright

      Well said. Since the last whimper of that rascally Celtic tiger the nation has bought into a number of false dichotomies. People versus banks. Homeowners versus developers. Public sector versus private sector.
      A generation overestimated their future earning capacity and invested the lot in an overpriced commodity, and now we’re all encouraged to find someone to blame.

      1. Pedanto of the Clan Pedanto

        A bit of country versus Dublin too. I’d say that’s a lot of what Quinn and this crowd traffic in.

  13. Sido

    Does Middle Ireland mean rich people, who aren’t billionaires?

    Is Top Ireland the likes of Denis O’Brien and McManus etc?

    It’s so difficult to know nowadays. Loved the yellow waistcoat, by the way. My sort of people.

  14. PK

    Taking it back?

    You really have no respect for the rule of law. All this nonsense about the Magdalene laundries and doing what’s right, and then you condone this charade.

    Broadsheet has really become a more smug Sindo

    1. El Friendo

      Broadsheet has always been smug. However, to compare it to the Sindo is below the belt. That’s low man, waaaay low…

        1. Paul Coyle

          you haven’t read the strings above this comment have you,maybe you might and your next comment might be more constructive.

  15. Teddy Mc

    You are all just in favour of the banks, this is just a regular working class person who happens to own our corrupt illegal banks 8 million, if it weren’t for that you’d think different, the amount doesn’t matter, the government and banks just trample all over peoples rights.

    At least we are trying to make a difference, and we all know that winning isn’t everything, as long as you try, even if it’s not the right way to trying something you can win maybe, they’re doing something, the rest of yous just sit their making smart arse remarks. This is about the people of Ireland, not just some law or contract.

    how would you feel if you had your farm pulled from under you? I’ts like the brits all over again but this time from within by smart arse smug people.

    This might not be legal, but the banks aren’t legal, and the government isn’t either, they don’t represent the people, they just take care of themselfs.

    Support this movement, and show up and give support, if you can’t do even that if you are two scared or don’t have time then send some money to help mount a legal challenge to the illegal banks who take back things they don’t even own.

    They’re are lots of us who believe this, yesterday was just a drop in the bucket, we’ll take this country back to its rightful owners one day and get the rest of you too see these lies for what they are, its all just lies and we’ve been conned out of our own land, this is about what taking farms represents, not the fact that there was any amount of money owed, the amount doesn’t matter, a persons farm is theres not matter what.

    1. Sgt. Bilko

      “, this is just a regular working class person who happens to own our corrupt illegal banks 8 million”

      Beyond parody.

      1. Goosey Lucy

        I know lol. Christ, makes me feel like “if he’s working class with an €8m loan, what am I?!?”
        An amoeba maybe?

    2. Jack

      “Regular working class”? “The amount doesn’t matter!” Are you codding?

      Eight million euro. Eight million euro.

      If there are legal questions to be worked through on this do it through the courts. Or break the law and do it with violence and claim manorial rights if you think that has more flair.

      But don’t you dare co-opt the troubles of those in genuine financial need in this country. Don’t you dare compare this business man who would shirk an eight million euro debt he gambled on for extravagant lifestyle to somebody facing poverty.

      That’s grotesque. It’s manipulative, it’s intellectually dishonest, it’s deceitful, it’s wrong.

      Ugh.

      1. Paul Coyle

        there are 2,000 of you fellow citizens in this trust,they have right to fight for their lives.
        The Banks security men where trespassing,they where ejected.
        most of the people there yesterday are normal Irish people.

        All they did was take a opportunity to improve them selves,I applaud them for that.

        there no other way of making new money other than taking risks,only in Ireland would these people be berated,shame on you.

        1. Pedanto

          If you thought they were trespassing, why didn’t you call the police?

          And please tone down the “shame on you” rubbish. You don’t have to talk to everyone as if you’re addressing a mob in a high wind.

          1. Sgt. Bilko

            That’s a very real contribution, let’s be clear on that. I’d pay for the rope and timber out of my own pocket.

  16. Serv

    A saffron waist coat!

    This is just another property invester getting bailed out by the people. It will be the ordinary taxpayer who foot the bill for this guy’s failure.

    It is not the people saving themselves.

    1. Paul Coyle

      His family contributed 10s of millions over the past 6 decades to Ireland inc,he’s not being Bailed out, the banks where bailed out and no bailing out any further will help Banks.
      remember the Banks where and are fully insured.
      This guy as much a Bank Victim as rest of us.

      1. Always Wright

        You have confirmed my suspicions. Everybody who has piped up here to defend this ‘taking it back’ nonsense has had one thing in common. Their posts are misspelled, badly punctuated and garbled.
        I can’t take anybody seriously who can’t order their thoughts into sentences. It is symptomatic of the stridently ill-informed and illogical thought processes that are driving this sort of action.

      2. Serv

        Oh well so has my family, and nearly every other family in ireland over the last 6 decades.

        So do we all get free money from you now too?

  17. Pedanto of the Clan Pedanto

    I’m a freeman of the land, so I am.
    I’m a freeman of the land, so I am.
    Oh away with your judges and barristers’ clerks,
    Your bankers and wankers and Germans and jerks
    I’m running three houses, I need those three Mercs
    I’m a freeman of the land.

    I’m a freeman of the land, so I am.
    I’m a freeman of the land, so I am.
    My trust is in Charlie, my land is in Trust
    The mortgage adjusters will have to adjust
    I’ll only get richer the more I go bust
    I’m a free man
    Of
    The
    La-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-nd!

        1. Pedanto of the Clan Pedanto

          No real tune. It’s pub-yawp ordinaire in D (the people’s key).

          Also, western musical notation has NO LEGAL VALIDITY in this jurisdiction and CANNOT BE IMPOSED on freeborn Irish Minstrelsy by German Bachsters and their “Irish” LACKEYS.

  18. Owen O'F

    If these poor deluded freeman gimps wanted to be truly useful they’d be looking after the Priory Hall people rather than some jumped up Celtic Tiger stud farm spiv.

    1. Tannoy

      Well said. Can we not focus our anger on breaches of regulations and people who knew they were taking shortcuts (malice) rather than those (bankers, developers, stud farmers etc) who gambled and failed (idiocy)?

    2. damiangibney

      excuse me i am no freeman ,not that the freeman is incorrect or i am not imply that there right or wrong ,but dont put all of us in little boxs

  19. Aine

    What a cheek to compare their situation to the land league!! They are property speculators who got it wrong and lost out and now everyone else has to pay their debts.
    It’s ironic they assault the LOW PAID security workers who are the ones that have been most affected by tax and wage cuts. Its one rule for the rich and another for the poor.
    If it was the low paid security worker who defaulted on his mortgage he would be out on the street. For the property speculators its a different case they can continue to live in their houses and get everyone else to pay their debts.

  20. The Hub

    Ah yes, the old ploy of attacking the messenger instead of attacking the person who sends the message. Matters not if a person can spell,the message is clear, all banks operating in this banana state operated illegally on many fronts, not enough deposit ratios, insolvency, loaning each other money to balance the books and then transferring monies back…and list goes on and on.
    Those who tried to better themselves by buying a 2 bed apartment or a farm believed the institutions they were dealing with were legal and lawful institutions but as we know they are not, so the people are not criminals however continuing to engage with these criminal banksters makes you a party to criminality, justice is what is needed in Ireland not pointing the finger at a family who only wanted to better their lot in life, until justice is done people have the lawful right to claim what is lawfully theirs.

    1. Sgt. Bilko

      Even if what you say was true or made sense, you’re just advocating that people not repay debts that they freely incurred.

      Ye’re a pack of scrotes.

      1. Paul Coyle

        Yes,another great idea Ireland pumps billion into Banks and we should let them take our Businesses and home also, that makes a load of sense,I’m all for people paying back debts ,but only on a level playing field.Our Irish and foreign Banks are corrupt,Have broken Irelands finances and may people.They have extorted money and cause may people to take their lives,I believe anther guy in Cork killed himself Yesterday from financial pressure.
        He would have been better of finding a couple of Bank executives and brought them with him.

        1. cluster

          Whatever nonsense you come up with about illegal banks and so, you are left with a clear set of facts.

          He borrowed 8 million.
          He committed to paying this back.
          He is not paying this money back.
          The bank are now re-possessing the property he bought with this 8 million.

          So why the protest?

          1. Paul Coyle

            Banks have broke the country not small business,that is why.
            As I said if the money goes to the Bank it will be gone forever at least if Eugene has it there is a better chance he will contribute to Ireland inc.
            The banks are corrupt,they are currently all trading insolently this a criminal offence,carried 5 years for Directors,still none in jail???
            Anglo who lent the money to Eugene have been cough extorting money from Central Bank,Crime also.

          2. cluster

            A combination of reckless banks and reckless investors have ‘broke the country’.

            I agree that the bankers were beyond reckless to expose themselves to so much risk by lending such a high proportion of their loan book on property in a small country.

            None of that gives the likes of this guy any right to demand that the property not be repossessed.

          3. Paul Coyle

            He has a right to fight.

            What actually happened was
            the government pushed the Central Bank to loosen the reigns on the lending rules.

            these guys set the boundaries for all of us.
            people and Banks took advantage of the new permitted rules as they where told by Bertie and others if they think the property boom was about to finish they should commit suicide.
            these people are our friend s and neighbors.
            they took a chance to improve themselves.

            what is actually happening now Banks are being allow to continue as if there was nothing wrong with their accounts but joe cant play by same rules.

          4. cluster

            No matter how strict or loose the lending guidelines, harry is still liable to pay back what he borrowed.

            True, guidelines were stricter in the past (and now again) to protect banks against this sort of eejit.

            The fact that Anglo employees may or may not have downplayed the extent of the trouble they were in does not liberate Harry from the responsibility to pay back what he owes.

          5. Paul Coyle

            not true the such a thing as contributory negligence.
            there no advantage to you or me if Harry looses his property to Anglo Swindlers.
            but there is a loss for you and me if he becomes a burden on the state.

    2. Always Wright

      If you can’t pay for it it’s not yours. We have no mystical ‘rights’ to own property. Those who blame the bank are forgetting that they bought two things they couldn’t afford; the property itself and the mortgage that paid for it. None of us are born with an entitlement to own a roof over our heads or land under our boots.

        1. cluster

          Two things to that piece of emotional blackmail.

          1) His family house is not part of this ‘dispute’.

          2) An 8m euro stud farm is not the same as a ‘roof over your head’. If he was having trouble with his debt, there is no reason he could not downsize his family home to help defray the bill.

          1. Paul Coyle

            And why should he not be allow to build his business back up to where it was before he got caught up in the huberous of Celtic tiger.

          2. cluster

            Because most taxpayers don’t want to assume his debts for him. Geddit?

            If I was being asked to give away my money to people who want to buy stud farms, I’d probably chose people who hadn’t made such a royal mess of it already.

        2. Always Wright

          God? What does anybody’s invisible friends have to do with this?
          Where, in what sacred text, does it say that your god has decreed that you are entitled to own the roof over your head (which is what I mentioned) or indeed to even have a roof over your head that you don’t own?
          The Judeo-Christian god frequently allowed his loyal followers to wander the desert without so much as a pop-up-pagoda over their heads…
          And if your god is so into shelter, why does he allow so many to live on the streets?
          Even if you’re weakminded enough to believe in gods of any description, surely you can comprehend that they’re not in charge of allocating housing.
          Although, now that you mention it… My god, Wrighteous, (you may not have heard of her but don’t be embarrassed) says I’m entitled to a Ferrari. And to only ever eat dessert. In fact she says that damiangibney has to bring me a Ferrari and dessert right NOW or she’ll turn his toes into eyeballs and give him cataracts.

    3. Jack

      What was it that the banks did, exactly, that stopped yer man from being able to repay the money he borrowed.

      Are you telling me that if he’d borrowed the same amount of money from a legal bank he wouldn’t have defaulted? Or he would still have defaulted, but he’d not have tried to steal the thing back afterwards?

      1. Paul Coyle

        If the Banks where operated normally they would not have lent the money in first place,also Eugene expanded his business with this money paying stamp duty and other forms of Tax along the way probably in the Millions,he need a chance to get backup and grow and contribute as his family have done for 6 decades.

        1. Always Wright

          So he didn’t ask for the money? They forced him to take out a loan? Forced him to spend it? But they can’t seem to quite force him to pay up?

          1. Paul Coyle

            He is broke and trying to make his life work again,is he not permitted to fight for his and his children s future.
            Again the playing field is not level.
            better Eugene has possibility of recovering his business instead of it going into Banks Black hole isn’t it?

          2. Always Wright

            Better? No! The man is clearly capable of making a much larger mess of his business than the average person. He should try to get a job in a Centra and keep his mouth shut about his past employment history.

          3. Paul Coyle

            yes, great idea Eugene should give up the fight against Anglo Irish Bank the most destructive organisation our country has Harbored and now protects?? ?
            He spent it in Ireland attempting to build his business, we need people to risks, this is natural commerce. although the proper controls where not there over the last 15 years or so.

          4. cluster

            ‘we need people to take risks’

            Correct but the reason it is a ‘risk’ is because it can go wrong.

          5. cluster

            That is good to hear, Paul.

            This man, Harry, is not so adept at managing risk. If he is unwilling to pay back his loans, then I would much rather the property be sold on to someone else that may be better capable of managing risk.

  21. Mai

    I left Ireland 6 months ago, for a few reasons, but one of the main one’s was because I worked my arse off trying to keep the roof over my head. When I got my mortgage for my house, I was working, getting up 5.30 am and leaving my house at 5.50 to drive 23 miles to get into work for 6.30, work until 4 and be back by 5pm. I was not on a good wage but it was ok as I could manage, but when the banks F..ked us over and the gov. of my country started putting up, and levee’s were introduced, and by the way, petrol went through the roof, I found myself not been able to keep up with my mortgage. Through no fault of my own, I fell behind on paying my mortgage. My employer then, (in my eyes,) took advantage of the recession and started laying off some of the workers and made life very hard for some of us that were left so that we would leave, as they could not fire us, without paying us redundancy, which of course he did not want to do. Anyway, with the agro at work every day and the stress of not being able to keep up payments I got very sick and started to loose my hair. I eventually decided to leave my house and land and country, as I could not work or pay.
    But after hearing tapes of conversations between two high up bankers talking about how they are going to screw the people of Ireland and knowing that nothing is being done about it, makes me sick. I am reading comments from people on this tread and some of them are annoyed that the people of the country are standing up for each other, against the banks. Why would they be shocked or annoyed? Why would the men and women of Ireland not be out on the streets shouting for these guys to spend the rest of their natural lives behind bars and the government that are protecting them sent with them. Put them all on a Island somewhere and throw away the key.
    Oh and by the way, the bank is sending me letters to my address now. I don’t know how but the are.

    1. Pedanto of the Clan Pedanto

      I’m full of sympathy for you, Mai. I’m sure the vast majority of commenters are too. I don’t have any problem with people standing up for each other. Is that what’s happening? This trust looks like a scam for rich people to shrug their debts off, onto taxpayers like you.

      Someone said the trust is fuill of “ordinary Joes”. If it has 2,000 members with assets of two billion, that’s an average of a million euro each. Not like many Joes I know.

      There may be some smaller-scale people in it. I hope not, because those are the ones who will get shafted when the Freeman mumbo-jumbo goes to court.

      1. Paul Coyle

        All the people in the Trust have nothing left its all gone they have nothing to loose,at least they are fighting Irish or least some.

        1. Pedanto

          I’m talking about the value of the assets they’ve put in the trust, as I think you know. Is two billion a fair estimate?

        2. cluster

          I’d like to think of myself as a fighting Irishman of some sort also, Paul.

          I just disagree that pushing up the cost of repossesions for reckless property owners and forcing taxpayers to pick up their tab is a positive example of ‘Irish fight’.

    2. Always Wright

      That sounds like a terrible situation to be in, I hope things start to look up for you soon.
      It’s not clear from your post, do you feel the bank shouldn’t be allowed to contact you to try to recover the outstanding payments on your mortgage?

      1. Paul Coyle

        Here is some reality for you:

        As best as we can explain it and keeping it simple:
        You take out your mortgage for, lets say €100.000
        The bank [normally within the month] sells your mortgage via a Special Purpose Vehicle to a bond investor for €120.000 [+/-].
        It is then in the Banks interest to push you into default, when in default the Bank then buys the mortgage back at €0.60 in the €uro [+/-].
        Then the Bank takes you off to court and gets judgement, the Bank takes the house and does a fire sale and here is the clever bit: the Bank comes back to you via the courts for the shortfall. And you are left paying them for the best part of the rest of your life!
        The sheriff takes the family home, realises the sale and returns the paperwork to the bank, the Bank then claims on their insurance. What I hear you say “that can’t be correct”, wake up, it is. They get paid around six times for the same mortgage.
        AND INSURE THE MORTGAGE AGAINST YOUR DEFAULTING

          1. Paul Coyle

            this reality of what has happened,do you think Banks made their money from 1-2% interest profit on loaned money.AIB made nearly 1 billion in 2005 on 35 billion loaned,do the maths.

          2. damiangibney

            no its not ,can you the bank prove this has not have been done ,,we can and will prove this in a court of law

        1. PK

          Have you any prices for actual trades of bonds? Show me the name of a bond that holds the mortgage of this stud farm.

          1. Paul Coyle

            The Farm has been secularized the Bank has admitted,but they wont give any further info on this,bur we are working on it

    3. Jack

      That’s truly awful Mai. Nobody should have to go through that, and I am sorry if the tenor of this thread has made you feel that nobody is on your side.

      It may be that we’re overdue a movement of civic disobedience. Maybe we are all morally culpable for not taking to the streets in protest of a righteous cause.

      But this shower? Isn’t it. At best these people are mistakenly peddling bad law and bad arguments. At worst it sounds like they’re deliberately co-opting anger over stories like yours to forge a crude axe to defend the wealthiest first.

      1. john

        Jack

        I am 28 my dad lost everything

        I am living in London away from the mess

        I have spent the previous 10years of my life helping my parents pay a mortage and paying esb bills and helping out.

        This trust may or may not work but they are making a stand against the banks/Government who have totally screwed us and sold us out to keep Europe and investors happy.

        Yes you can lable these men as a band of merry men/Idiots but the reality is they are standing up against the system that is destroying everyone’s life in Ireland.

        Yes there were property speculators who lived above their means but their crimes compared to those of the banks pale in significance.

        Everyone is saying “i am not paying for his 8 million loan”.

        Fair enough but you are paying throw the nose to bail out banks and our government and you have done nothing now ye are all shouting over this guy trying to defend his property for god sake why are ye all so bloody afraid of change and burring your heads in the sand while decent Irish people are committing suicide every single day of the week now and Seanie fitz and other bankers are wondering what to do with their bloody bonuses.

        The founders of this state would truly turn in their graves if they knew the situation today.

        1. Sgt. Bilko

          What a load of shite. Poor ickle property speculators. Poor ickle rape-and-slaughter capitalist, robber-baron scum who carried on like drunks at a roulette table, but don’t want to pay their tabs.

          Turn out the Army, open fire.

    4. cluster

      The people protesting here are the exact same as the bankers.

      They are all part of a group of selfish, reckless f***ers. A decent proportion of my taxes will go to paying for their mistakes, rather than a health system or museums or education, for the rest of my working life.

      You are not fighting the banks.

      You are fighting me and every other pleb like me that works hard and plays by the rules.

      1. Paul Coyle

        You Tax will not be affected by how poorly the Banks continue to do,Eu have already agreed Governments are not permitted to BAIL OUT BANKS AGAIN.
        But one thing is for sure is Eugene does not support himself you and will via our Taxes.
        Money we gave to Banks is gone and is no coming Back,I pay more in TAXES one month than most will in 10 years,I was there yesterday.
        The Banks have drained our money and want to continue. I will continue to fight along side anybody who feel same as me.
        There no benefit for you and me if Eugene losses his Battle only a downside.

        1. cluster

          IBRC have paid so much for the property they have taken over.

          They are going to recoup so much from these properties.

          The difference between these two figures is going to be of great concern to taxpayers.

          1. Paul Coyle

            Nama now runs Ibrc leftovers, is never going to make money it costs us 1,8 billion per year to operate.
            please people wake up,
            its another Bank but in disguise.
            I.8 billion does not cover the so far hidden Legal costs.
            bring Back Nama wine Lake
            Many of the loans and activities are problematic

          2. cluster

            If they don’t make money, the scale of these losses will matter.

            Many of NAMA’s loans and activities may be ‘problematic’. Far better that you concentrated your attentions that way rather than helping stud farmers rip off the public.

          3. Paul Coyle

            explain how he is ripping off the Public.

            also why should he be plastered as some sort social thief,I bet he has paid more into Ireland than you have and if so who is the leech on Ireland.

      2. Zuppy International

        “…Works hard and plays by the rules?”

        Whose rules? And how are they working out for you Cluster?

        1. Paul Coyle

          Yes the Banks broke the Rules and continue to do so.
          People need to wake the F up the Battle is against the BANKS all us guys need to stand together.

          1. cluster

            I agree that a huge proportion of senior bankers behave very dishonourably.

            But the very same applies to this manner of d!ckhead.

      3. Austbe

        Cluster,
        Your taxes and mine are not being spent for the purpose they were collected, they are with the exception of a small amount, being spent on servicing the 64 billion plus Bank Bailout debt, I don’t intend to go into the Banking Disney World, all of the comments above have an element of truth, some more than others, the common denominator is the reckless, greed filled, and in some cases fraudulent conduct of the Banks which has been condoned and encouraged by Government who are protecting their own positions.
        Every entity that had a duty of care to the ordinary taxpayers of Ireland failed in that duty, now they want the ordinary joe to pay the price, if one has property, they have perpetrated the conditions where less and less borrowers can fulfill their payment schedules, they are not in default of the loan term itself and no consideration is being given to the improvement in economic conditions we are promised and bombarded with now on a daily basis, if things are going to improve at the level we are being told then it stands to reason that borrowers should be given time to recover in the same way the Banks have been given time ( and plenty of money) after all the banks caused the problem in the main.
        If one doesn’t have a loan then the attack comes in the form of many many tax increases, in the main, stealth taxes which chip away and erode quality of life while blaming it on people like the family involved in the above matter, its a victory on more than on front for the Banks and Government, divide and conquer and collect the cash.
        One could then be really unfortunate and have a mortgage and a job, middle Ireland, the coping classes, the pain is virtually unbearable, battling to make ends meet with no help and ever diminishing resources.
        I would advocate less nit picking of people’s language and grammer/ spelling, ( which can be down to the device they are using) and more understanding, plus education so we can truly understand who the enemy is, accepting the status quo and the old reliables has now. well and truly, been proven wrong.

  22. Tom Darcy

    Those of you that do the Banks bidding, are as guilty as them, I have sat and listened and read horrific stories of our nations suffering, how dare any of you condemn the innocent for placing their trust in those that were required to uphold the laws of this country, but who violated every law and laughed at this Nations misery, how would any of you respond in finding your loving partner with his wrists slit, a Stanley knife beside his body, soaked in his own blood or A husband wakening up to find his cold stiff lovers body, who emptied a bottle of pills to find escape from this nightmare. I am appalled and ashamed to call myself Irish as I read the comments posted. One thing us Irish are great at is running down each other, one thing we are not good at is supporting each other, thousands of innocents take their life’s, yet you call yourself human, while you pontificate how sensible and foresighted you all were, your children, your family, your friends, your neighbors suffer at the hands of Criminal bankers, while you place blame on those that broke no law, I expect the AIB,BANK OF IRELAND, IBRC, Irish Permanent TSB are laughing as they read each word of this disgrafully despicable excrement you call opinions. If you want change for you families future accept we all need to stand together and but egos and mindless self-destructing opinions aside for the sake of our children’s future. To those that don’t understand how hurtful your words are, I will repeat what a child said to me, ” my daddy left because his head was painful, the man sent post and bad people said he was to blame, my mummy cries, where’s my daddy do you know, is his head still sore” in the name of god please stop and support each other,

        1. Pedanto

          If someone could make the phrase “I am appalled and ashamed to call myself” explosive, the world would be a lot nicer to walk around in. After some very dull funerals, obviously.

  23. Ella

    So… who has set up this trust and how much is he making out of scamming people to throw their lot in with his pseudo-legal babble?

    1. Paul Coyle

      they had lost all they had befor the trust came about,this is their last fling,probably wont work but there are 2,000 people fighting together and that is a great thing.

          1. Paul Coyle

            Hi pleased to Meet you i’m Mr Spanner.

            Is that it are you also finished with any real argument.

            whose the spanner now?

          2. Pedanto

            Well, you certainly got me there.

            If mild Tennysonian joshing is too much for you, there are a couple of questions up there you could address.

      1. Ella

        Paul – I appreciate that you feel strongly about this and that you’re earnest in your desire to do something in the face of the banking outrages.

        So look – this question is not about scoring points and you don’t have to answer. But has this trust taken any money from you? Have they gotten you to sign anything that could land you in trouble if things don’t end up working out in the end? I know you’re doing this because you believe in the cause, but are you going to be alright if something happens and the trust does fold?

        1. Paul Coyle

          I am not a member of the Trust,I’m not in trouble with the Banks I along with my Family run a successful business with 40 + staff.
          I don’t know the details of the Trust I expect it will fail in courts if it get there.

          I am sick of my taxes increasing with no obvious benefit to me or people I know.

          The Banks need to forced to behave in just manner and foist their problems onto us,if Eugene is ejected he then become our problem,Banks are free of that issue.

          1. Ella

            Okeydoke. I’d have felt bad if we’d all only argued with you instead of checking you weren’t going to be one of the ones further rooked here.

    1. Sgt. Bilko

      I can absolutely guarantee you not a single one, at least no-one with the least bit of legal knowledge, skill, experience or basic cop-on.

          1. Paul Coyle

            At yesterdays event there where a group of Irish people who know more about Land conveyance law that any law firm in Ireland.

          2. Sgt. Bilko

            AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAHHAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

            Would you ever just cop yourself on and get a job, like a good lad.

          3. Sgt. Bilko

            Here is the only bit of land law you chancers need to know -http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/act/pub/0027/sec0074.html#sec74

            That’s the bit that wees all over your trust codology. You stupid, arrogant pricks.

  24. orieldude

    Talk about picking the wrong battles…

    Just to confirm: The guy made a massive Celtic Tiger-era investment in his business, which has failed. The borrower has defaulted, the lender wants to seize the assets of the business, but this man’s personal assets are not at risk?…

    THIS is worth drawing a line in the sand over? A mob assaulting some guy in a minimum wage security job is the big fight worth having?

    This nonsense, like the Quinn-clowns, should be miles down the list of things to get angry about.

    1. Pedanto

      “A mob assaulting some guy in a minimum wage security job is the big fight worth having?”

      Orieldude, you’ve nailed it. Bravo.

      1. Paul Coyle

        What happened is we remove a Bank asset from property which the Band does not own.
        The Bank is/was Anglo these are the real crooks.

        1. Sgt. Bilko

          You posted above that you’re not part of the trust, yet here you’re using “we”? You lying scrote. Could you at least not insult our intelligence with such transparently nonsensical lies, and come up with a few fibs with a bit of wit and invention?

  25. Pedanto

    Paul, fair enough. It’s hard to keep track of all the simultaneous conversations. A few questions:

    1. You say the trust members are ordinary working class people. How do you square that with the average of €1,000,000 in assets they have assigned to the trust?

    2. The security guards were physically removed against their will. Do you not think that is an assault?

    3. If the security guards were trespassing, why not call the police?

    4. You say the banks are illegal. Can you point me to anyone with a law degree who has the same opinion?

    5. Do you accept the legitimacy of the Irish government?

    6. Do you accept the jurisdiction of the Irish courts?

    That lot will do for a start.

    1. Paul Coyle

      1. You say the trust members are ordinary working class people. How do you square that with the average of €1,000,000 in assets they have assigned to the trust?
      a.not sure but maybe some have property valued in the multi millions
      2. The security guards were physically removed against their will. Do you not think that is an assault?
      a.They where asked to leave first and would do so even when faced with 170 people (gutsy but stupid), who have been persecuted by Banks for the past number of years, these people are not happy campers ,Ultimately they were trespassing on private property. The Guard with Black hair threw a punch and received one back. assault or defence not sure.
      3. If the security guards were trespassing, why not call the police?
      a. no need to waste any more Tax payers money, any way the security men called the Garda and they did not turn up.
      4. You say the banks are illegal. Can you point me to anyone with a law degree who has the same opinion?
      a.People with Law degrees are they the ones advising the Banks on every move, Have you listened to the Anglo tapes, do you know it is a criminal offence to operate a Bank without a licence or in a insolvent basis, did you know AIB submitted false accounts to the Fed last year declaring their assets by 1billion more than they where so they could trade in Usa.
      5. Do you accept the legitimacy of the Irish government?
      a.It no longer a Democracy when private companies dictate.
      6. Do you accept the jurisdiction of the Irish courts?
      a. we don’t have much choice here, but we have begun some cases in European courts because to poor decision in Irish courts.
      That lot will do for a start.

      1. Pedanto

        Thanks, Paul.

        On the issue of assault. Asking someone to leave is irrelevant. If they were there legally, the security guards were assaulted. If they were there illegally, it was a job for the police or the courts, and physically removing them was an assault.

        Shameful stuff either way. Defending a mob of 170 against 2 (?) doesn’t sit well with your stance olf defending the weak against the powerful.

      2. Sgt. Bilko

        “6. Do you accept the jurisdiction of the Irish courts?
        a. we don’t have much choice here, but we have begun some cases in European courts because to poor decision in Irish courts.”

        Oh this is just delicious. In which courts? Give us the case references there, like a good lad.

  26. LovelyJoe

    The pictures of the security man being manhandled are pretty upsetting. I can’t see how assaulting some dude who’s probably being paid minimum wage in the name of a former millionaire makes a group some sort of defenders of the ordinary man league.

      1. orieldude

        See where I said about picking your battles?

        Your riposte to a point about assaulting a bloke on a minimum wage security job (I call bullshit on your ‘self defence’ claim) is to post footage of the eviction of more multi millionaires who are known to have purchased 21 properties in the boom and still own the bulk of them.

        You need to get your priorities right. How about protesting for the Priory Hall residents? Or on behalf of the parents whose disabled children have lost learning support, for example?

        1. Paul Coyle

          Look many of the people there have been a the receiving end of these Security companies,this day they employed one pretty nasty piece of individual who began goading these people who are already on the edge and looking for a avenue to vent.
          however there a bit of pushing about,no more than you would see on a football match. but no body was injured,

  27. Cavanmanontour

    If he went to Vegas and put the whole lot on red and lost we’d have no sympathy, can’t see much of a difference here to be honest, took a bet on property, levered the life out of his land and lost, sounds harsh but thats business.

  28. Paul Coyle

    Its getting dirty.People are being assauled by these security guys evrry week but Garda who see it happen wont bring charges.people are taking their lives 2 a week due to these Banks.

        1. Paul Coyle

          how do I present evidence over the computer,meet me and ill bring you to.

          this is one example of Garda doing nothing during a assault on a elderly man,there are plenty more:

          1. coco pops

            add nothing to your case. you don’t understand how other people perceive this, i and they see it as the long arm of the law doing its job.

      1. Paul Coyle

        yes its OK for Banks agents to beat the shit out of Farmers and their children!!
        but when it comes to removing Bank security from property they are trespassing on people become wish washy??

        1. coco pops

          you run a business, so you must understand the principle of property. the security guards were not trespassing, because they were there on request of the property owner.

          the property owner sent in some heavies to remove a farmer and his son because they were essentially trespassing.

          now if the gardai find something amiss in their investigation, i won’t be surprised, but the same will apply to a mob descending on some security guards.

          i don’t understand how you can run a business and employ fourty people and have such perfectly upside-down views on property.

          1. Paul Coyle

            cluster its no on video,but I will being you to meet a sixteen year old and his father in Enniscorthy who had the shit beaten out of them by Friends first Security men,I will introduce to a woman who had her horses brought out and tied up on a road and one of her horses had 4 of its legs broken by receivers security.
            I can introduce you to a farmer in Newcastle limerick who was knocked unconscious by two guys repossessing farm machinery.
            I can introduce you to friend who received a kneed in the face while assisting his son who was knocked unconscious in Malahide by sheriffs helpers.
            there is a guy in saint john of gods wit brain injury from Repos men.plus many more and still nobody arrested.
            you people live in disney lala land.

            I bet you don’t want to know.

            easier to comment being a digtial screen.

            well done.

          2. Paul Coyle

            Hey Robo.why dont you read some of the threads before you splurge ur shit again.
            im not a trust advocate,im against bank and government f***king up our lives.
            u want my address,bring it on.

          3. Paul Coyle

            if there was evidence I could publish id post it ,but are interested in the truth, up for a road trip,ill make the time if you will.

          4. Paul Coyle

            Bilko, I’m not hurting,thing are quite good for me.
            its 400,000 fellow ctizens who are hurting,I just help as many I can

          5. cluster

            No, Paul, I have no interest in a road trip with you.

            So far, you have not made a single cogent argument in favour of these actions nor have you backed up any of your claims with evidence of any sort.

            I understand that dealing with a debt burden can be stressful and I share your indignation at bailing out banks.

          6. Paul Coyle

            It is difficult to prove anything on site like this in such time but if you are interested I can introduce you evidence

  29. Pedanto

    Paul, have you no disquiet at all about the treatment of that security guy? He must have been terrified. Do you support what was done to him?

    1. Paul Coyle

      I was happy with what happened,but these guys where very aggressive and threw first punch,they where not injured in any way.they would not walk away.
      I was not pleased

        1. john

          The security guy was there as he was paid to be there

          He had no right to be there the property was taken back by the trust two days earlier

          The courts knew this.

          A farmer who had cattle on the land as he was renting it from the receivers had his cattle removed the day before.

          The courts haven’t acted so the receivers decide to send these two security guards in.

          They should never have been there.If you were standing in your kitchen and seen two people trespassing on your property you would ask them to leave if they refused to leave and one of them threw a punch at you you would do what ever you could to remove him.

          That is what happened.

          Look at the end of the day the courts and the banks are breaking the laws they have been for years and if you all think that this trust is for failed property developers then you are wrong there are hundreds of people in it who are about to lose their homes and this trust will be there to support them

          The best thing about this horrible event in Kenny court stud is that it is starting to unite all the groups who are trying to help people as up until now they have all been disagreeing with each other.

          The receivers will be back to this property and they will have extra force the only way to defeat them is with numbers no other way.

          If Eugene was on his own with those two security guards he would of been bullied out.

          Let the courts act now and we will see where this all ends.

          Enough of people standing on their own and being bullied it is time we all stood together and do right for each other instead of doing what is right for banks which aren’t even Irish anymore

          1. coco pops

            here genius,
            you seem to be arguing some moral higher ground.

            ask yourself this:
            was bailing out the banks wrong, yes or no?
            if bailing out the banks was wrong, is it wrong on the same principle to bail out a stud farm owner?

            from previous comments, you’ve already stated that bailing out the banks was wrong. you’re then using the same argument then to say that bailing out this guy is ok.

            well it’s not. two wrongs don’t make a right.

          2. Pedanto

            “Enough of people standing on their own and being bullied! It’s time to coagulate into a gang, find some other poor sap who’s standing on his own, and bully him!”

            Do you really not see this?

          3. coco pops

            if i was to pay a top class public relations company to damage the image of genuine people who have problems paying or renegotiating their actual mortgage, on their actual home. and they came up with this, i’d be blown away by the macheveliian genius of it all.

            you have no idea how damaging you are to your own cause.

          4. coco pops

            i never said you were dangerous. i said your actions were damaging to your own stated cause, alarmingly so. so badly that i’d put a sneaky bet on it being a conspiracy to damage the cause.

            using thuggery to support failed multi millionaire debtors is counter productive to easing the plight of families paying back their mortgage on their home.

            using thinly veiled nonsense that doesn’t disguise a complete misunderstanding of a lending system, further discredits the same cause.

            you are doing the banks a massive favour with your carry on.

          5. Paul Coyle

            Well coco pops,

            where do you equate someone not loosing their business or to to Banks = Taxpay pays more?

            The Fact are we can no longer permitted to support the Banks, new Eu Regulation agreed by Noonan lst June.

            the banks have to float their own Boat.

            Aib is in hock over 50billion even at best times 2005 it would take them 50 years to be debt free,more like 150 now.
            the money we put into BANKS is gone and will never return.

            they will not contribute to Ireland for many years and from looks of things after reading papers today they are permitted to mitigate their losses for 30 years.

            yes what a great idea let banks take business and property from people who can contribute to Ireland.
            no wonder we are f***d with this type of thinking!!!

          6. coco pops

            it’s pretty easy to see how it costs the tax payer more.

            this is the formula for a bad loan:
            (money loaned out) minus (money received in payments) minus (money from sale of property) = total loss from bad loan.

            the banks have provisions for bad loans and in addition that formula’s why interest is higher for risky propositions.

            what you are suggesting is taking a few massive chunks out of the side of the equation that prevent losses on the bank.

            tax payer owns the bank. it’s an investment of the state at this stage.

            capital cost of a business is the main one, i can think of no cases where any business over any time period produces as much tax revenue as it has money invested in fixed assets and capital. maybe a hot dog stand but that’s about it.

            if the banks balance sheet is frittered away by giving millionaire stud farmers free studs, the state loses.

        1. john

          Pk

          I have never stated i believe this trust tripe.

          It may work it may fail but they are standing up and fighting.

          I hope to god you never have to go through the horrors of dealing with receivers.

          Also I am well aware of my poor writing skills thank you.

          1. john

            @ coco Pops

            First lets clear something up I am certainly no genius nor do I proclaim myself to be.

            I have stated over and over again this whole case has nothing to do with bailing out this stud farm owner.

            It is about standing up against banks if you could just realize that whether it is someone with 8 million or 200k debt the amount is irrelevant.

            Do you really have to ask if I agree with the bail out it is quite clear I don’t we have sold ourselves for nothing.

            The banks aren’t there to serve us surely that must be clear to you.The government that are running us are going around in straight jackets as they are powerless to do anything as Europe dictates what they should do.

            So rather than all of us just going along with the whole charade why not make a stand and try rattle them up a bit instead.

            This whole stand could turn out to be a waste of time but like most sparks it will either be extinguished very quickly or it will grow.

          2. cluster

            The point is john, the amount is not irrelevant.

            If you are talking about a family home worth 200k, not everybody will agree but you will find a huge amount of sympathy.

            If you are talking about a stud farm worth 8m, not so much.

          3. coco pops

            this whole case or this whole cause?

            the banks are a business as any other, designed to rip you off.

            this is an ill thought out fools errand. it’s absolutely futile to stand up to the banks in this manner. when a family or smalltime landlord is standing up to the banks they tell the bank this is as much as they can pay, if the bank doesn’t like it they welcome the bank to reposess. it’s not your house until you’ve paid off the money you borrow for it.

            i’m all for making a stand but it very much depends on what the stand actually looks like when you make it.

            and this is thuggery in support of a multi millionaire stud farm owner. it looks much worse than the plain people of roscommon standing behind their man sean quinn.

          4. Paul Coyle

            I was involved yesterday and most of the people there don’t owe money anywhere near 8 mill.
            I personally helped 4 beople of very moderate income keep their homes from Banks and the Sheriff.
            they are still in their home and are not a burden on mt Taxes.

            This is a pain in the pocket for the Banks and this is what it is about for many of us,We just want them to stop behaving unalterly and begin discussions that will keep this issue away from the comment Tax payer

          5. coco pops

            you’d have served your stated cause far, far better by posting evidence of your assitence in the cases you mention here, instead of participating in this present farce or posting links to the killiney property tycoons.

            if by your own admission all you want to do is make the process more of a pain in the pocket for the banks… you know the banks have been bailed out, and taxpayers are paying interest on the bailout money and you can surmise more bailout money will be needed.

            then you can see logically, that you actually are placing a tax burden on yourself. temporary social housing is never going to cost more than the amount of capital to buy a house.

        2. Paul Coyle

          coco,

          we dont put money into banks anymore.Right

          our investment in Banks is not a good thing as they will never be worth anything and therefore we will never get our money Back.

          the only affect we have directly relating to Banks is related to interest and capital we have to pay Imf and their Buds.
          but as the capital is already given more or less that is faith comlet

  30. TK ickle

    Paul/Tom,

    I have a question. I don’t know the exact details of the 8 million borrowing but was it a case that it couldn’t (at this time) be paid back/monthly payments met or was the full remain loan get called in early?

      1. Paul Coyle

        Sory,dont know the exact answer .
        I recall hearing hes was making reasonable or full payments but Bank was not happy so he lost his equine insurgence and then he lost his credit line because of this. I do think he was unfortunate as the decisions made by Banks 4 years ago when this all begun where more draconian than now.

  31. Gerry

    I see some people are complaining that he did not pay the loan back. There is some merit in that point of view. But, a loan is a business arrangement between ultimately two or more consenting adults. They are both taking a risk. Why should the banks be risk free? Why should they not take some of the loss considering that they were more than willing to take some of the profit if the venture succeeded?

    I am quite sure that all borrowers, including Charlie Allen, would be glad to pay if at all possible. But, there is no reason for his life to be made a misery if he cannot. He is a grown man and you can communicate with him as such. This childish behaviour that the banks indulge in should not be allowed. It is far worse than not paying back a loan.

    1. SwayingRight

      You’ve stated that a loan is an agreement between two consenting adults, the usual practice is that you consent that the security for the loan will be repossessed if you fail to make the repayments on that loan.

        1. Gerry

          The banks should have been allowed to fail, but it is easy to say that now. At the time, there may have appeared to be no alternative than to save them. I expect that if the government could have foreseen the harm that saving them would do, they would not have done so. But, what I would now like to see is an equal effort to help the ordinary people of the country who fall on hard times through no fault of their own.

          As we know the current government are just picking up the pieces after a failed previous administration and in my view doing a reasonably good job given what they had to work with. They come in for a lot of criticism, but in two years or ten years we will know if what they did was the right thing in the circumstances. Just like we all know now that supporting the banks was the wrong thing to do.

          I think they are unusual times only because we are all doing unusual things. Another generation may look back on these times as the good old days.

      1. Gerry

        That is true, but I believe that the risk should be shared equally. If the banks get the farm (or whatever the property is) and you are kicked out with nothing, you are taking an unequal share of the risk. You put yourself and everything you have into the business/property and if it fails you end up with nothing whether you were making payments for two years or ten.

        The banks are far bigger, more experienced and have more resources at their disposal. Your loan is only one small part of what they do. Why should you take all of the risk? They are investing in your business and as they are fond of telling us, “the value of your investments may go down as well as up”. Yet, the borrower is expected to guarantee the bank’s investment and cover all possible losses. The small guy always loses. That doesn’t make sense to me.

        If it can be proven that the borrower was capable of paying and simply did not trouble himself to do so, then I would certainly agree that he should be encouraged to do so within the law, but in a civilised and human manner with due regard to the quality of life of the borrower and his circle. The borrower should not be made to feel like a criminal or pauperised if it at all possible.

    2. cluster

      ‘The word mortgage is a French Law term meaning “death contract”, meaning that the pledge ends (dies) when either the obligation is fulfilled or the property is taken through foreclosure.’

      The bank are taking a risk in that the mortgage-holder may not pay back the loan or they property may not be worth the value of the loan.

      Obviously a bank can decide to make a deal with the mortgage-holder if they decide it is the best option for them.

      1. Gerry

        If as you say the banks are taking a risk, it is surely an unequal risk. If the loan value was greater than the value of the property, then there is certainly a risk for the bank, but how often does that happen. If it does happen, the bank is still at fault for giving such a loan. I would think that it is more often the case that the property value is greater than the value of the loan or at least the outstanding part of it. Also, I think that the banks are usually in at least a break even position. What they usually cry about is not making a big profit on the deal.

        “The bank are taking a risk in that the mortgage-holder may not pay back the loan or they property may not be worth the value of the loan.”

        It is no risk if they can kick the borrower out, claim the assets and sell them off at whatever price they choose leaving the borrower with little or nothing. To me that is unreasonable.

        1. cluster

          The point about the asymmetry of the risk assumed is irrelevant. harry knew this when he took a loan.

          1. Gerry

            I was not speaking about him in particular. I am not familiar enough with Charlie’s case to discuss it with any authority. I never heard of him before. All I know about him is here and nearly everything here is in dispute.

            But, in this case like any other, I think it is a pity that we punish the triers. It seems that God loves a trier, but the banks don’t and neither do many of the people here. I hope that they are not representative of the views of the rest of Ireland.

          2. cluster

            I love a trier too,

            I just don’t think that anyone who tries anything should be cushioned from failure.

            Harry took a loan guaranteed against property he was buying. He is unable/unwilling to repay this loan so now he is losing the property.

      1. Zuppy International

        How is the bank taking a risk? They don’t lend actual money you know, they simply transfer some digital credits. They have no assets to back up these ‘loans’ (hence the huge amount of trouble they’re in). So if they haven’t lent you anything why do you have to pay them back?

        It’s a bankster scam. Fake debts are fake.

        1. coco pops

          you’re wrong there, the loans are backed by the property. they loan you the moolah, you buy the gaff, you pay them back the moolah plus interest.

          irish banks balance sheets are full of property in the asset column.

          when you take a mortgage on your house, it’s the banks house, not yours.

          1. Paul Coyle

            not correct again coco pops,in Irish Land law there are only two ways to move property one is by court order and other is via the Land register.
            neither of which where involved in Kenny court Stud.
            they don’t and cant own our property,they have a Charge on them.

          2. Zuppy International

            Disingenuous and untrue. The ‘loans’ are classed as the assets on the bank’s balance sheet. ‘Deposits’ are classed as liabilities.

            It is the individual’s signature on the loan documents that creates the ‘wealth’ that the bank then ‘pretends’ to lend to you.

            Usury was once a sin and a crime, now it’s accepted practice.

          3. coco pops

            i wrote property there as shorthand for loans backed by property. it’s the truth, it won’t hurt you.

            banks create money to loan out, if all of it is paid back, the money supply inflates or increases.

            if the borrower fails to pay back, the money supply doesn’t inflate or increase as much.

            if there is no process for inflation, then the wealthy have no motivation to lend.

            Paul I think you’re out of date with this Land Law stuff:

            http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/losing_your_home/home_repossession.html#la3b46

          4. Zuppy International

            @ coco pops

            “banks create money to loan out”

            You’re agreeing with me in spite of yourself. Fractional reserve banking is the scam. Any bank who makes a loan on this basis is acting in an unlawful fashion: they are not providing a true valuable consideration to their customer.

            Ask anybody who has ever taken out a mortgage… did they ever see any actual ‘money’?

          5. coco pops

            you think fractional reserve banking is a scam, well try operating without it, the options are boom and bust cycles or you cribbing you can’t get a loan to buy a house form your family because loans are 1:1 with deposits.

            Paul, your link was 4 pages, 2 of which were pretty much blank.
            Even islamic banks are doing it with fiat currencys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_bank#Riba

          6. Zuppy International

            Go to bed coco pops. You’ve done enough shilling for banksters for today. And you’ve long stopped making sense.

          7. coco pops

            This is the situation with that law as it stands right now:
            http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR13000120

            http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Explanatory%20Memorandum%20-%20LCLR%20Bill%202013.pdf/Files/Explanatory%20Memorandum%20-%20LCLR%20Bill%202013.pdf

            I was trying to help you out there by posting the citizens information link, that maybe at one stage what you were saying may have been correct in a certain set of circumstances. You’ve pasted the same link to a basically empty pdf twice now.

            Are you saying they have no legal basis to reposess this property or all properties?

          8. coco pops

            go to bed you’re not making any sense says the lad who comes out with this:

            “Any bank who makes a loan on this basis is acting in an unlawful fashion: they are not providing a true valuable consideration to their customer.”

            you what now?

          9. coco pops

            This is the situation with that law as it stands right now:
            http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR13000120
            There’s a link at the bottom of that page to an explanatory memo. I’d paste it here but I’d be moderated by the site for putting in too many links.

            I was trying to help you out there by posting the citizens information link, that maybe at one stage what you were saying may have been correct in a certain set of circumstances. You’ve pasted the same link to a basically empty pdf twice now.

            Are you saying they have no legal basis to reposess this property or all properties?

    3. PK

      >Why should the banks be risk free? Why should they not take some of the loss considering that they were more than willing to take some of the profit if the venture succeeded?

      They *are* taking some of the risk – like for example if the collateral loses value and the borrower goes, eh, bankrupt and cannot pay the original sum back. Like should be happening now.

      In the case the borrower does not want to share any of the downside

      1. Zuppy International

        What downside is there for the banks? The state has bailed them out and imposed and imposed a punitive series of tax hikes to pay for said bailout. Yet the banks still expect borrowers to pay back the original loans.

        In effect the banks are getting paid twice.

        1. cluster

          The banks are not being twice paid.

          Firstly they took a haircut on the assessed value of the loans transferred to NAMA and secondly many of these are performing worse than expected.

    4. Just the Facts

      Really?
      Owen McDermott Senior is a major property developer in this country. Go an look up Marshalsea or O’Farrell McDermott in the company registers or google them and the Naas/Kildare and other developments (try adding “Dunnes”). McDermott took a business risk and we have to bail him out? His brother also runs a property development operation in the UK and has appeared in the Sunday Times rich list. Again, you can look that up. Let’s see these 250 knuckle-draggers out defending the rights of Priory Hall residents. Stud farms my arse.

      1. Duwayne

        “Meting” … must be using voice recognition for replies …
        Still, lassie in photo No. 9 is culchie hot. Culchie very hot. I’ll stop now …

  32. Always Wright

    Anybody with any sense should leave this thread now.
    Leave Paul Coyle, John, Damien Gibney and their ilk to their spiraling madness.
    They’ll run into the brick walls of law and logic soon enough.

  33. Gerry

    I hope that the image of the security man being manhandled is not what it appears to be. I don’t know anything about them, but the security guys are probably just ordinary guys trying to make a living and pay their own mortgages. They should have been treated with respect. Their employers hardly expected them to fight and protect the property and it is unlikely that they would have put up much of a fight under the circumstances.

  34. me

    I walked into a high street institution on Saturday and placed a €5 security with the proprietors. I did this in the hope of a return on the deposited monies, which would arise if one UK premiership soccer team would beat another UK premiership football team.
    The actual outcome was not as I had anticipated and I have been forced to forfeit my €5 security.
    Enough is enough, now is the time for action!
    Join me as I march on Paddy Powers bookmakers to rightfully demand the return of my €5, sure, how was I to know the result was not going to be what I had hoped?

  35. Dza

    410 comments? Is this a record? 410 comments and no father ted reference? Careful now, down with this sort of thing!!! LOL

  36. Rob

    It serves no good to Ireland in the long run if everybody in financial difficulty is evicted, it’s just unworkable, a downward spiral – if all forbearance is cancelled and every property in arrears is repo’d, when the banks push them back onto the market, there will be a glut of supply, a relative shortage of buyers, and the prices will collapse further; so the outstanding debts will be greater, and the country will suffer longer.

    What these protestors and commentators supporting them are failing to do is present a realistic alternative to reposession. There is no compelling reason why people who were probably already relatively priviledged (like this stud owner) who embraced a high risk high borrowing culture, and lived high on the hog for years, should now be allowed to have their cake and eat it by hanging onto their ill-gotten gains for free – why not just take the farm and give it to a tennant farmer as an act of charity?

    What’s needed is an opposition to evictions with a viable alternative solution that is widely supported, not devisive.

    A solution is required that doesn’t throw away peoples’ debts, but also recognises that the fabric of society would be further damaged by harsh action now. Some sort of programme of debt restructuring coupled with a moratorium on contested evictions would make sense.

    Lastly, I read that he has debts of 7m euros, but the court case involved an outstanding debt of 0.8m owed to Bank of Scotland – not sure that the Irish tax payer is copping for that anyway? BOS are British?

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