The Traveller Card

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Further to the Mount Anville halting site brouhaha.

A leaflet distributed by Fine Gael local election candidate Josepha Madigan yesterday.

Anon writes:

Dear Ms Madigan…I am a resident of Goatstown. Your lack of detail and ill informed literature leads me to believe that you have given this matter no further consideration than a cheap populist attempt to drum up some anti-traveller sentiment in advance of your election campaign.

I couldn’t let this opportunity pass without taking the time to say a definition of racism is someone who believes that members of different races and ethnic minorities should be treated differently. Your literature indicates to me that you think that members of the traveling community should be treated differently. That they should not be housed in your ward and the Council should simply find somewhere else for them to live.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, some voters in this constituency do seek political representation that is fair, non discriminatory and represents tolerance and acceptance of all races and ethnic minorities.

Travellers have been marginalized, rejected and told to move on in South County Dublin for decades. Clearly there continues to be a prevailing climate marginalizing Travellers in South County Dublin. Distributing Anti-Traveller literature such as this is offensive and I hope will be received with similar disdain by your constituents. I will most certainly be raising it at the local residents association and indeed the many other community groups and voluntary associations of which I am a member.

You criticised an unnamed Labour Party Councillor in your literature for being in favor of the proposed sites on the basis that “everyone deserves somewhere to live”, you said that you feel “such comments should be consigned to the past”, alas I fear that racist views and anti-Traveller literature such as the material you distributed and the political campaign under which you are running are sentiments that should be consigned to the past….

Josepha Madigan (Facebook)

235 thoughts on “The Traveller Card

    1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

      Let’s get one thing clear. They are treated differently to the rest of the community. Racism may not be strictly correct but please provide a better word.

      1. Aunt Fló

        DNA analyses show that they are a distinct ethnic group. Racism is an entirely appropriate term.

        1. Mark Dennehy

          Out of genuine curiosity, do you have a link to those studies?

          (And that’s not in any way any kind of support for that headwrecking piece of dross of an electioneering stunt above).

        2. madouveh on the dole

          By that logic I could be my own ethnic group.

          Or are you just referring to the compound genetic deformities that consecutive interbreeding between cousins brings?

          1. Gee-bag

            The compound genetic deformities that consecutive interbreeding between cousins certainly marks you out as your own ethnic group

      2. scundered

        living in a f**king caravan doesn’t make you any different to anyone else… it only means you choose to live in a caravan.

        yet if these sites go ahead they would have a free pass to live in affluent areas which most people can only dream of… where is the equality in that? Let them pay €500k per caravan plot and that’s fair enough.

        1. Jess

          Being a traveller is not an activity. You can live in a house and still be a traveller, just as when you go abroad you remain Irish, you don’t suddenly become French.

          1. scundered

            well there is nothing stopping them buying a house, or renting a house so at any moment they can go…. you guessed it… travelling.

            Am still not getting why you or they feel they are any different.

          2. Pidgeon

            Oh I don’t know. The discrimination they face when trying to rent a house is pretty bad. Didn’t a house somewhere here get burnt down by the neighbours rather than let a traveller family move in?

          3. Jess

            Ha! Scundered if you think there is nothing stopping people renting out accommodation to travellers or buying then you really haven’t been paying attention. Trust me, unless you’re very good at disguising the fact that you’re a traveller then you haven’t a hope.

            And as for travelling? Stop for more than a night and you’ll be told to move on. Ewan MacColl said it best:

            “theres a by law to say you must be on your way, and another to say you cant wander”

          4. scundered

            Good point Pidgeon, I rent out a house, being honest yes it would cause concern to me if a traveller family made enquiries about it… only because there is a very well documented history of that community leaving properties like a disaster zone, selling all valuable contents, copper etc, at the same time I would have exactly the same feelings if it were a group of young students, I was once a student myself and was as bad as anyone when it came to partying and wrecking… it’s therefore nothing personal but an opinion based on not wishing to pay out unnecessarily.

            I guess one man’s discrimination is another man’s asset protection

          5. Pidgeon

            But scundered, you are the one saying they should just go and get a house like “normal” people and you can’t understand why they want to be treated differently. I think you answer your own questions there

          6. scundered

            well who’s fault is it that the problem exists? I feel sorry for those who are genuinely well behaved people just wanting to live like anyone else but it was that very community that created the stigma in the first place, therefore in my opinion it should be that community that takes steps to undo that. Otherwise distance yourself from it completely.

          7. Pidgeon

            “well who’s fault is it that the problem exists?”

            I’d say people with bigoted generalised views of an entire ethnic group based on their interactions with a few, or more likely, anecdotes from their mates or the media, have quite a large part to play in it. I’d say the type of people that would rather burn down a house than let a family live there are the problem. I’d say people saying “but they aren’t a race” are part of the problem. I’d say people who say the community started the stigma (which makes no sense at all) are part of the problem.

            Feeling sorry does f*** all. Maybe try thinking a little less Dale Maily about things and address your own generalisations about people for a start.

          8. Jess

            “whose fault is it that the problem exists?”

            Good question. If I’m a traveller who wants to rent accommodation and I’m being told no simply because I’m a traveller. Who should I blame? Should I blame the person who is discriminating against me, or should I blame some unnamed person I have no association with who happens to be the same ethnicity as me?

            Personally I’d blame the person who’s discriminating. Then I’d ponder why that form of discrimination is ok but the reluctance of a lot travellers to trust a community which regards them lower than dirt is seen as being ‘anti-social’.

          9. scundered

            You know you’re desperate for an insult when you bring the Daily Mail into the argument. lol

            So the robberies by travelling gangs never happens? So the camping outside business premises and demanding money to move on never happens? So the trashing of entire purpose-built housing paid for by tax payers and ripping out of their valuable contents never happens? So the selling of fake industrial goods at markets here and over Europe never happens … and I could go on.

            So this reputation they have is entirely unfounded and only a few incidents? It was all just the media/mates and everyone who believes in the bad reputation are just bigots. Yes that sounds totally reasonable, these patronising apologist retorts of yours are cringe-worthy, but must attempt to look PC at all costs eh?

          10. scundered

            @Jess, that’s good point… it’s an awkward one for both sides… it’s not right to treat anyone differently if you have no evidence on that individual, but people also have a duty to protect their assets basing it on a wider knowledge and make a risk assessment based on that… they would be an utter fool not to. Awkward one.

          11. Pidgeon

            Why, where did I say people don’t commit crime? What I don’t do is try and pin it on everyone in one ethnic group which you seem more than happy to do

            I think you are starting to get your stories about what travellers do and what Roma do a bit mixed up. Maybe time for a lie down. You must be tired after all that bigotry.

          12. scundered

            No actually I said I would similarly be worried about renting out to students, for the very obvious reason that they have a well deserved reputation for partying etc… but you can call that bigotry if you feel the need to Pidgeon-hole it. Thankfully I and most readers know better.

          13. Jess

            “it’s not right to treat anyone differently if you have no evidence on that individual”

            They why do you when you admit its wrong? You’ve said you want to protect your property, but you admit that the way you are doing it is wrong, and since you say you are basing this on no evidence, incorrect. Yet you continue to do it and defend it as right.

            You are having an emotional reaction to a prejudice, which you admit is wrong. I can promise you that you have had more interactions with travellers than you realise because not all travellers look or sound like the stereotype, because many have had to supress it to get a job or a house.

            Perhaps a better approach would be to do some research on your tenants? Most landlords look for references and check them out. You can also check for criminal records. Wouldn’t that give you a better impression of what the person is likely to do to your property?

          14. Shadow Wifi

            Then again settled travellers burnt out my car in my driveway because their uncontrolled dog ran in front of my car on the main road; they also harassed me for months to pay bogus vet bills, and even had the cheek to try to fake a reciept from the vet I actually use. The police did nothing.

          15. Fair hill

            Burning out your car and trying to extort money from you is part of their culture, you are trying to take away their identity, and you are being very mean to them

            You should write them a cheque in the morning, and have one ready for next week, if you pay them once they willk be forever at your door.

            Guards are scared of them, but that’s also part of their culture, normal laws applied to settled people don’ apply to them.

          16. Jess

            I’ve been the victim of plenty of crimes. Burglary, muggings, arson, harassment the lot. I guess that means all you settled people are like that too.

            Or maybe anecdotes on the internet don’t actually count for sh*t

          17. scundered

            the amount of crime and types of crime is not anywhere proportionate with that of the settled community Jess, cop on.

          18. Jess

            Prejudice is against individuals. Its prejudging based on a narrow and often inaccurate subset of characteristics such as skin colour, gender, nationality, ethnicity etc. This is why its generally held as a bad indicator of people’s character.

          19. scundered

            Prejudging someone based on their background and community that the individual chooses to be part of is not some “shot in the dark” guess though, the decision is based on hard fact and a much wider scope than just the person themselves, and rightly so. It’s not a bad indicator, it’s just being wise to minimise risk.

          20. Jess

            Its not based on hard fact. And you’re said as much in your own words

            “it’s not right to treat anyone differently if you have no evidence on that individual”

            No evidence is, i think we can agree, the opposite of hard facts.

            You’ve also gone back to travelling as an activity based on choice rather than an ethnicity. Being a traveller is no more a choice than being Irish or other ethnicity. And before you say living in a caravan is a choice, you are the one preventing them doing otherwise.

          21. Fair hill

            Isn’t living in a caravan an integral part of their culture, and as such their choice.

            Otherwise how would they travel ? And spread their rich culture throughout the Country and Countryside when it comes to the distribution of rubbish

          22. scundered

            Jess, the hard facts are in relation to the community that person chooses to be part of, like I already mentioned you do not make judgements based solely on the person, if it were about that then it wouldnt be right to refuse them, but in the real world if you dont want to have your property ruined then you get as much info as possible about the applicant and make a judgement by weighing up all the facts you can lay your hands on.

          23. Fair hill

            Speaking of which, have you managed to get your brain around one contribution that travelling culture gives to society, that doesn’t involve them taking from society ?

            Shovel in a few more anecdotes there apparently your anecdotes are different from everyone else’s

            Is that rather then argue the point about living in caravans you just insult me, you really are the sharpest tool on this thread you got me there.

          24. Jess

            How about this then, you put a clause in the lease saying ‘While on the property you cannot be a traveller’, you know like parties or smoking. since its a choice and all.

            If then the person chooses to be a traveller, like if a settled person decides ‘today i think ill be a traveller’ you will have cause to evict them?

            Seems like a compromise to me.

            Its quite funny that you’re not even staying consistent with your prejudices

          1. Con

            Because travellers can’t be stuck up. Only associating with each other. Banding together against outsiders. Shunning family for marrying outside of their ethnic group/community. Yeah, travellers don’t do any of that.

        2. Medium Sized C

          You are reducing their culture to house ownership.
          That is wrong.

          They have a distinct culture, complete with social structure and language.
          They are an ethnic group.

          You can disapprove of their culture, but you don’t get to write it off.

          1. CousinJack

            Modern Irish culture is almost entirely founded on property ownership, have you never seen ‘the field’.

          2. Medium Sized C

            Kill a yank over farm land.
            Son runs off with a traveller.

            People who don’t want a house can’t be trusted.

        3. Jess

          Scundered. There is a higher proportion of fraud offences carried out by the rich. The working classes commit a higher proportion of vandalism, assault crimes. Its why we have distinctions between blue and white collar crime

          Do you equally discriminate against all people who might appear to be affluent or poor? Or do you treat those people as individuals.

          You also haven’t answered my question. Why do you, as a landlord discriminate based on ethnicity, when other landlords find it more effective to discriminate on the basis on individuals by way of getting references and checking them out?

          1. scundered

            Jess, first of all nobody has any right to enter my home except me and whoever I choose to let into it, I worked for it, paid for it, my decision solely…

            I do get references on all tenants and check them out wherever possible, friends of friends are by far the best option as it is very easy to fraudulently create references nowadays.

            Like I explained before I would have cause for concern when renting to a traveller family because of their communities very well documented problem with crime and in particular the destruction of property. You can butter that up in your own over-dramatic wording if you like.

        4. Jess

          How about this then, you put a clause in the lease saying ‘While on the property you cannot be a traveller’, you know like parties or smoking. since its a choice and all.

          If then the person chooses to be a traveller, like if a settled person decides ‘today i think ill be a traveller’ you will have cause to evict them?

          Seems like a compromise to me.

          Its quite funny that you’re not even staying consistent with your prejudices

          1. scundered

            So you reckon to suggest a clause stating “no party animals or trashers” etc will actually be effective? lol

      3. ferg

        Surely being treated differently is what they want?
        She may be a geebag but having lived beside a halting site in the past I would fight tooth and nail to prevent one being built beside me again. If you have a problem with that then drive by virtually any facility provided by the state to travellers in this city and witness the destruction of property and dumping that is common. Pavee Point and the likes are part of an industry that self perpetuates by playing the racism/victim card and does nothing to actually make a positive difference in travellers’ lives. They are quiet happy for people to be treated as second class citizens because of their gender or sexual orientation if they perceive it as part of their “culture”. We wouldn’t give the religious a free pass with attitudes that are far more enlightened than those prevailing amongst travellers.
        If a traveller wants to live in Stillorgan (or anywhere else), buy a house or go on the housing waiting list like your fellow citizens.

        1. Jess

          well none of that is true. Pavee point are a fantastic organisation who help an awful lot of travellers. The accusations that they somehow support oppression of women and homosexuals is particularly incorrect.

          Firstly they operate programs for women who have suffered domestic abuse

          http://www.paveepoint.ie/what-we-do/programmes/violence-against-women/

          They support and have marched with the traveller lgtb traveller group. Here Rosaleen McDonagh (whos on the board of pavee point) accepting the traveller pride award for the Gay traveller support group from President McAleese

          http://www.ilga-europe.org/home/guide_europe/country_by_country/ireland/president_hails_inspirational_success_stories_at_traveller_pride_awards

          They run Youth programs

          http://www.paveepoint.ie/resources/youth/

          And many other education, addiction services for travellers

          They’re also very friendly and pleasant if you go up and ask for some information or just learn a bit more.

        2. Fair hill

          I’m with Fergal

          Having had property stolen, property damaged, threatened with violence, had to increase security where I live, seen my neighbours being burgled, been held up by sulky races, all by this ethnic group, I tend to look less favourably on living anywhere near this community.

          If anyone has had any of this happen to them and still feels compassionately towards them, then I’m awe of their compassion / stupidity.

          If they would only travel, maybe to another Country and stay there I would have no issue with them

          I would discriminate the same way to any ethnic group who caused me the same kind of problems in life to be fair to other scumbags.

          So much of how we live and how things are operated is framed to compensate for this community it baffles me why they are indulged.

      4. Fair hill

        Seen a TV3 show once where Travellers were saying it was part of their culture to live in Caravans by the side of the road and travel (which they don’t),

        Next breath giving out because they had to bring their kids up and wash by the side of the road in this day and age.

        The next picture should have been so someone having a cake then eating it too.

        Anyone defending their lifestyle choice, or behaviours has never had first hand experience of them, or is the most compassionate misguided soul in Ireland

        IMHO

          1. Fair hill

            Jess
            Instead of slagging off TV3 and the Daily Mail, can you explain exactly what it is they want, then can you explain it to them.

            If you have been a victim of all those crimes do you still feel you want to hang out with the perps, or most likely perps. If you do your a wiser victim than me

          2. Pidgeon

            Yes… because the Mail are known for their completely unbiased reporting of news stories

          3. Jess

            ‘They’ are a mix of individuals who have a varied of different goals, just like you or me (I know shocking). Its fairly easy to extract that the same needs for housing and freedom of association are met, as well as the basic right not to be told you are less than dirt from the time you are born.

            ” you have been a victim of all those crimes do you still feel you want to hang out with the perps”

            Of course not. But I haven’t given up hanging out with working class people, or irish people either despite all those crimes being committed by working class, settled irish people. Can you tell why I wouldn’t stop hanging out with them?

          4. Fair hill

            Who have varied of different goals (what does that mean)

            Goal 1 steal anything not nailed down, shoplift, look for thieving opportunities
            Goal 2 make a big ole mess anywhere we live, don’t pay for any rubbish collection
            Goal 3 don’t pay any tax anywhere and contribute nothing to society
            Goal 4 get pissed and smash up any pub stupid enough to serve us
            Goal 5 get as much stuff for free as possible, housing, land , see also goal 1
            Goal 6 disrupt other people’s life as much as possible and when challenged play we the victim card

            Is there any of these goals you would disagree with ?

    2. Pidgeon

      Let’s get one thing clear – that means SFA

      “According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,
      the term “racial discrimination” shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life”

  1. Caroline

    Madigan is a solicitor who has self-published one of the greatest terrible novels of all time, Negligent Behaviour. The passages describing compliance with Section 68 record-keeping are especially moving, although there really is a gem on every page of the book. Few readers will easily forget the description of Helene and Dan’s night in with a Marks & Spencer Dine In for 2 Meal Deal. Makes “Laura” seem like “Rebecca”.

        1. Garthicus

          Thanks. They had me at ‘sassy’

          Sassy solicitor Helene has spent the last few years getting what she wants and who she wants. Rising through the ranks of a high profile Dublin law firm, she has professional as well as sexual recognition. Her story is set against the last groans of the celtic tiger. She works among, has relationships with, and represents the movers and shakers who created it. Privy to the machinations of the top legal firm, Helene goes on a voyage of self discovery of both her own motivations and those of her profession. We learn how she rationalises the two, and whether they can ever be reconciled. As truths gradually emerge in her private life, an unstoppable chain of events are set in motion in her professional life. Do the legal structures so long the buttresses of all she believed protect her? Can she defend a profession that has nurtured her, or will she bite the hand that feed her? Josepha Madigan segues with ease between the legal and emotional worlds of her heroine, Helene. Set amongst recent Irish recognisable legal scandals, Helene’s tragic story of love and loss is a fictionalised expose of the moral dilemmas we frequently address. This is a no holds barred insider and explosive view of the Dublin legal scene. On this voyage of discovery with Helene, we learn not only a bit more about choices we all make, but also how a life can compound or confront these mistakes.

        2. Garthicus

          Oh god, this is amazing.

          “My belly heaves in and out like an Elephant’s girth being squashed with a measuring tape”

          1. andyourpointiswhatexactly

            All 11 of her buddies gave her amazing reviews. Maybe it is good for that genre, but I’d rather chew my own arm off than have to read more of that dross.

          2. Sadface

            from the reviews: “This would make a good movie too. Better not say anymore or I will risk giving something away!”…
            Steve McQueen’s next secret project?

        3. Anne

          Ha ha ha — funny how all her reviews only had the time to post one review on Amazon and then disappear never to review again. Methinks that there is a shocking load of sock-puppets in Joespha’s top dresser drawer!!

          1. Daddy's Home

            Exactly what I thought. She self published too. Such desperate blatant bigging up of oneself.

          2. Anne

            She self-published more than the book if you read the reviews, they all use the same syntax and grammar except where she drops her cases and adds in a lot of !!!! to disguise her writing style. The numpty.

          3. Daddy's Home

            Yes I see what you mean. Also there is a striking similarity in the tone of all the “reviews”. And the names she’s chosen for her “reviewers” – Ballsbridge! FFS. Blech.
            And not one duff review. How remarkable!!!!!!

  2. ruairi shelley

    posted this on her fb page i wonder how long before its taken down. i sure am angry!

    Hi, i just received your leaflet about the proposed traveler site at mount anville. This site has been ear marked as such for many years and the traveling community have been in this community for many many years,(longer than you i suspect) there fore as an interloper in this community denying people who have been here longer than you the right the live here is very sad and very small of you. Please leave the area and let our community get on with living normal healthy productive lives or reassess your principles about the other members of our community and stay and become part of the community rather than singling out certain members and denying them basic human rights; its a shame that you continue the principles of eoin o duffy more than half a century later . I hope you can open your eyes, as this leaflet will be something you regret hopefully sooner rather than later.

    1. narkie

      nice reply. Made me mad too. This land is too valuable for Travellers is essentially what she’s saying (and the lovely residents of the area don’t want them). But she’s dressing it up in some feeble argument and throwing in the ever-popular NAMA-bashing…

      and to all who think the land could be sold, and the money could be used for something else; indeed, all of those things ‘could’ happen, but none of them ever will. We all know that. So why not use the land for its designated purpose and be done with it.

    2. scundered

      how can the travellers have been in that location longer if there is no site for them? Was there one there in the past?

      1. ruairi shelley

        @scunder the traveling community have been in the area for many years, they have had their sites in this area taken from them in the past. this site was to address that.

        1. scundered

          ah thats a fair enough point so, however in the balance of equal rights I too would like a free place to live in an affluent area… therein lies the problem.

          1. scottser

            so by that logic you have a problem with all council tenants within the dlr catchment area because you perceive it as affluent?

          2. scundered

            I do think that’s unfair if people are working their asses off to buy a gaff and there are some in society who dont want to work and are handed a free place in a nice area, do you reckon thats fair?

            Am ok with free housing for people who are out of work through no fault of their own and actively seeking work, very understandable, but once they gain a job they should be paying the going rate for that property/area.

  3. DNS

    Eh….does it make me a bad person that I agree with her sentiment?

    If the land is worth 2-5m which could be sold & the cash used for other things, why give it away free, or indeed spend more council money developing it to make it into an accomodation site?

    I’m not from that side of the city so don’t have a vested interest (no ‘I don’t what THEM as neighbours’ from me) but there are so many undeveloped sites that would not have the value of this land around the city and its environs that could be used instead.

    I also don’t think its a ‘racist’ peice of literature (and I don’t vote FG). Sure there are some ‘reading between the lines’ sentiments if you want to see them but the points made in it are economic which I think have a basis in reality.

    1. Pidgeon

      Don’t councils have to provide a certain number of halting sites? Or am I imagining that?

    2. scottser

      if a site is allocated as social housing provision for travellers then the council will not be ‘giving it away’. it will receive an income from the site. not only that but the ongoing ‘hidden’ costs of keeping families in illegal encampments and homeless accommodations etc would be reduced. why would anyone deny another person the benefits of stability that a home would bring?

      i posted before about spending on traveller accommodations nationally has not hit targets. the provision of accommodation for everyone is now reaching problematic levels and the proposals from madigan here are ill-informed and divisive. it says alot about what she’d be like as an elected representative.

    3. whelp

      But it’s establishment racism!!!!*

      Stock response from keyboard warrior who doesn’t actually know any Travellers and wouldn’t dream of interacting with them.

  4. sheep

    “Josepha Madigan” ……correct me if I’m wrong, but that to me sounds more like a member of the traveler community running for election rather than someone campaigning against the traveler community.

        1. Lilly

          Her father is Paddy Madigan, solicitor with mad hair(piece). Once had political aspirations with FF.

  5. Owen C

    Eh, isnt all she’s saying is that basically there should be a cost analysis and that basically the Council should consider a different, less valuable site (ie the NANMA sites reference)? Clearly this is too scandalous a thought for some people.

  6. Jess

    Fair play Josepha.

    I’ve lived stone throws from halting sites in various places without any bother. I’ve lived in settled estates with no end of bother. This is populist bullpoop, I expect nothing else from the party of snobs and liars

    1. SwayingRight

      Jess, you’re contradicting yourself on the same thread.

      “anecdotes on the internet don’t actually count for sh*t”.

      Why do your anecdotes count for sh*t but not for anyone else?

    2. Connor

      Hi can you name a halting site in Dublin that you have lived beside in Dublin that has caused no bother and I will show you a folder of Garda reports that contradicts you.

      1. Kieran NYC

        Can you name a housing estate/’posh’ area in Dublin without a Garda folder full of ‘bother’?

        1. Connor

          No problem, do you want me to list some estates with no anti social complaints. I will happily do so if you match me one for one on halting sites and see how long our conversation lasts

  7. Frilly Keane

    Any of the site’s current residents students in Mount Anville?

    Just wondering like

      1. Frilly Keane

        Tru’dat

        And the fake tan knows no boundaries, intentional, obligatory, or otherwise in South Dublin.

  8. Mister Mister

    “I couldn’t let this opportunity pass without taking the time to say a definition of racism is someone who believes that members of different races and ethnic minorities should be treated differently. Your literature indicates to me that you think that members of the traveling community should be treated differently. ”

    Isn’t this what travellers want themselves ?

    1. Pidgeon

      She is being deliberately stupid with her interpretation of the definition and confusing positive discrimination with racism

      PS Interpretation is a fun word to type

      1. rotide

        Positive discrimination?

        So everyone shouldn’t be treated equally after all. Panti is going to be disapointed.

          1. rotide

            I completely agree. Equality is not treating everyone exactly the same.

            Equality is recognising differences and allowing for those differences.

            During the pantigate bore, noone seemed to want to hear that though.

            Of course, its the allowing part that causes problems. A wheelchair ramp is a no brainer, halting sites will always cause problems.

  9. Paul Davis

    Big win for the local residents if it does go ahead.

    Their property tax liability will be zero.

  10. Buggalugga

    Completely agree with josephea. Live beside a halting site and see how much you like it. People work hard to buy homes in good areas for a reason

    1. Pidgeon

      Yeah. Whatever next? Benefits scroungers in the neighbourhood? Black people? *shocked face* Immigrants?!!!

      *clutches pearls*

    2. jean

      I’ve been living 600 metres from a halting site in Dublin 8 for years and have never had any trouble from anyone from it, passing by it, etc.

        1. SBY

          Like a black fly in your Chardonnay travellers are the lowest per capita ethnic group of passport holders.

      1. padmundo

        Perhaps they have a better community spirit within that particular site and aim to be part of society. Take a visit to some of the other sites and let me know what you think…

    3. scottser

      i’d be more interested in the views of the residents of leopardstown, sandyford, shankill, carrickmines, booterstown and blackrock about how they feel living beside well run traveller accommodations. maybe they could tell you how well their kids are doing in the local schools and how they contribute to their communities.

      but by all means lock yourself away in your gated community, buggalugga. enjoy your illusion of safety.

          1. scundered

            You can see only the opposite end that was barricaded off several years ago, not the other end that I am meaning.

          2. Pidgeon

            Oh well in that case!! How evil travellers must be if they stop Google cars going up the road

          3. Fair hill

            Finally the penny drops, sort of.

            I don’t think the travellers had anything to do with stopping Google going down, more the case they were wise enough not to drive down or near it, with a car load of expensive kit.

            Though where did Google get that wisdom that seems to have been missed by some of the posters on here. Google did drive down a high percentage of the settled communities roads, not many problems reported, coincidence, could be?

            See also previous post Goal 1

          4. scundered

            …trying desperately to remove image from my mind of Google car driving around with no camera on top…

          5. Fair hill

            Could you ask the guys doing your drive if they know of anyone selling Sarcasm meters, I’ll take one, I’ve turned this one off and on again still not working properly….. Or maybe it is

            You could send it to me with the badge and Padraig Nally’s gun, once he’s finished on that sitcom he’s working on with George Zimmerman

        1. padmundo

          However I would hazard a guess that in this case the google street car was restricted by the height of the equipment mounted on the roof. Not that I have looked at the site but I imagine there is a height restrictive barrier on it.

      1. padmundo

        As I said above. Well run and community orientated yeah? Lucky.

        Have a look at the rest and run the numbers… then get back to me.

  11. Mark Dennehy

    If we’re going to complain about living beside halting sites, can we complain just as loudly about the chaps in expensive three-piece suits who destroyed our entire economy and left us under a mountain of debt in the process? Or the ones who make our healthcare, education and even justice systems a joke?

    I mean, fair’s fair…

  12. whelp

    The author felt so strongly about it all, they chose to remain ‘Anon’. Way to stand up for your principles. Surely true equality for Travellers would involve them paying equal rates to the settled community. Or even some rates. Are there any charges for occupying halting sites?

  13. Anonanomanom

    Face facts, the “stereotypes” about travellers are really stereotypes, there true. And this is coming from someone who knows loads of them. Anyone in my area will know the green lizard pub, well after the shooting it closed. When it opened back up for the few weeks I drank in there every Friday and Saturday with group including 5 traveller lads. Never any problems, till word got out they were getting served and then the place was full off them and there was killings in the place. Another example, my job based in Harold’s cross has been robbed 5 times now in a couple of months by travellers. And they were actually caught once robbing our garage and fuck all was done by the Garda about it. For the 1 or 2 who are fine good people there 100 are scum.

  14. TK Ickle

    I live near one of them camp things. fair play to them, they never sh1t on their own door step.

    They leave the burnt out cars down near the Dodder.

    1. padmundo

      I posted about that very place in a similar thread here recently. The playing pitches next to and behind them were unusable by any means due to the sheer amount of sh1te thrown in there. Refuse, knackered kids toys, used building materials, tv’s and other destroyed electronics. I’ve seen cleaner and tidier skips. It’s hard not to tar them all with the same brush when every halting site is surrounded by similar destruction.

      I also worked in halting site providing services. I got on with the guys there and never treated them differently. However whilst I was there they were openly purchasing stolen laptops. Never paid the bills for that job and all drove brand new cars and had the best of gear in their chalets. I did instead receive abusive calls when the services were stopped for non payment.

      There is an inherent abuse of any rules that is rampant in their community. They just don’t give a feck. A three year old Iranian boy in had his face slashed by a group traveller kids in the playground in Hunters Wood in Knocklyon. Nothing came of it. My brother moved out soon after. What chance is there if they let their kids carry on like that?

    2. hh

      “they never sh1t on their own door step.”

      The camp in the Glen of Aherlow, one of Ireland’s loveliest places, shows the opposite. Path leading to halting site was full of human feces.

  15. Lazlo Panaflex

    Fine Gael should dump goats, old nappies and broken washing machines through south dublin letterboxes and tell them travellers did it, that should get them some votes

  16. sinabhfuil

    It’s kind of an interesting dilemma for the council.
    Clash of ideas of how to house families who can’t afford to rent or buy.
    Idea 1: The council has limited money, so should build or rent in areas where land is cheap. If it owns land in areas where land is dear, it should sell that land to fund this housing need.
    Idea 2: Those who need housing shouldn’t be put into ghettos. They should be house in varying areas.
    Meanwhile, I seem to remember reading about a housing settlement for Travellers that was really successful, because the local women reached out and made contact with the incomer women – was it in Oranmore? Somewhere like that.

  17. orieldude

    There have been plans for a halting site there since at least the mid ’90s – I remember the protest leaflets against it from when I was a student in UCD around then.

    If you’re complaining about higher rates of crime or anti-social behaviour from people in the Travelling Community then insisting they be ghettoised into dis-used plots on industrial estates on the outskirts of towns, i.e. away from you and any areas of wealth, is not exactly going to lessen that issue.

    And if you think the depraved conditions Travellers often find themselves living in is self-inflicted and no excuse for bad behaviour then surely you should remove the barriers you think Travellers are using as excuses, to see if you’re right?

  18. Planet of the Missing Biros

    Travellers are not a separate race or an ethnic minority. They are at best a cultural minority.

    And South County Dublin does not exist.

      1. Clampers Outside!

        That too… just watched her video from the Ard Fheis… that poster is photoshopped to cartoon proportions.

        Which shows her as all image and no substance…. and creepy.

  19. Planet of the Missing Biros

    Snobs from DLR who would like people to think they are fine upstanding citizens are in fact just out for themselves and only want to live beside carbon copies of themselves. People who dodge their tax, get their children off charges because they know the judge, set up companies and then close them down to avoid paying debts. They are scum in leased BMWs who holiday in tacky dumps like Abu Dhabi.

    They are in fact the most bland of all people, entirely uninteresting, predictable, ignorant and an inexhaustible source of Late Late Show audience members.

    1. Napier Railton

      Try again.

      92% of DLR households have paid the LPT on arguably the most valuable property in Ireland.

      Additionally if I’m not mistaken DLR also accounts for a significant percentage of the entire countries tax take.
      All of those ‘leased BMW’s’ have VRT and VAT on them paid in addition to road tax.

      On your final point – a massive generalisation but it doth tickle my funny bone!

    1. Daddy's Home

      DAVEY (Ref Gypsies Passing Through)
      DAVI(E)S Family(Ref Journal of the Romany and Traveller Family History Society)
      DAVIDGE Charles 1791 DAVID (Ref Journal of the Romany and Traveller Family History Society)

      There’s a very good chance that you, yes you Paul Davis have a bit a the auld traveller blood flowing through your veins. And we wouldn’t be hating you for that.

        1. Daddy's Home

          I’m not disappointed at all. I’d rather be in the company of a traveller that a bigot. You’ve a lot to learn whateveryouliketocallyourself.

          1. Daddy's Home

            Nice one HappyDub. I think no matter what his handle is, he’s still a bigoted knob.

    2. squidward

      Well done Paul, for using a racist term against Irish people in general that you heard in a film by Guy Ritchie.

    1. Fair hill

      Let’s not forget the naive, politically correct, yet to be done over by Travellers and their charms brigade

      I hope they are gentle with you and bring some Vaseline for the first time

        1. Fair hill

          It’s like this, if you haven’t been done over by them then you will be, then see how your view might be coloured then

          If you have been done over and your still defending their thieving, mess making, violent culture then you really are special.

          What contribution does the travelling community make to society, just one I would accept one contribution

          They don’t even mend buckets anymore, just waiting for the new policy where we have to buy tin buckets so we can create the type of jobs they like to do as part of their culture, throw out all those cheap plastic buckets today, job creation for travellers, they need beer money now!

          1. Fair hill

            Does the badge protect me from traveller culture ?

            Or do you believe it protects you from traveller culture?

            Because you know if you do believe, then it will protect you, your whole life, always

            Can you send me Padraig Nally’s magic gun as well, I have some use for it.

          2. Pidgeon

            If this thread is anything to go by, travellers at my house right now, giving me a lovely new driveway. Which would be great cause I do need one. I don’t think I need protecting thanks, they seem very helpful.

          3. Fair hill

            You won’ be disappointed with that driveway, they are known worldwide for the quality of there driveways, they never scam people or extort extra money from elderly people, that’s some other ethnicity, the Maldovans, or the Luxemburgers.

            You obviously have everything you own nailed down as well, otherwise you will be disappointed in the morning. I don’ t know where that reputation comes from, can’t be from the fact hundreds of people have been ripped off by them.

          4. scundered

            Let’s hope it’s not like my neighbours driveway, a few days after “tarmacing” the stone surface just blew away in the wind, they still havent come back to fix it. Add some UHU into the mix when they aren’t looking.

          5. scottser

            ah fair hill, i know you don’t want to hear this but in the 4 times i’ve been mugged or attacked it was by a normal scobe. the one time our house was burgled it was by a lad up the road who’s folks were pretty wealthy but he owed money to a pretty nasty dealer.

            so i will be here, with my evidence based opinions and you be there with yours and we’ll both check the papers and see how many travellers get done in the courts today as opposed to settled scobes and we’ll see who’s right tomorrow, kay?

          6. Fair hill

            How is the rich guy up the road with drive ways ?

            It’s all a conspiracy, rich people keep their burgling and muggings out for the paper using the Communications Clinic, it’s only the down trodden, travelling bucket fixers the press have it in for, leaving my personal experiences aside, who were most definitely with people who were partial to the open road and some travelling.

            They quite often don’t end up near a court, firstly if it’s serious then they go to the UK, if it’s minor then the guards don’t want the hassle.

            Whereas your rich kid/mugging scone their banged to rights every time, it’s unfair I tells ye.

          7. scundered

            Scottser of course crimes by the settled community will outnumber the travelling but on a per ratio of the population count thats where your argument falls flat, then there is also the fact that the Garda are afraid of getting involved with travelling community, because the moment they do apologists like yourself come out playing the “I’m the victim because I’m in a minority” card.

            Several people on this thread now have asked about stating a few postitive contributions that the travelling community make to society, so please prove me wrong and change my opinion…

  20. Clampers Outside!

    I wouldn’t support dysfunction whether social, economic or otherwise in any family. Traveler ‘culture’ is rife with dysfunction. It’s built into it by the act of constantly moving about, and not giving kids a chance to get an education in school for prolonged stable periods of continued learning and make friends outside of the group they are in. Therefore I wouldn’t support it’s perpetuity.

    That said, this Madigan one is pretty vile and I don’t support her cause either.

    ‘Culture’ is a word bandied about as if it is something that is a constant, it is not. And not all ‘cultures’ are worth holding on to. Particularly those that are not willing to change, evolve and contribute to a society within which they live or from which they seek assistance. It’s a two way street… no sponging allowed, IMO.

    On a seperate but related note regarding ‘culture’…
    There was a lovely documentary on Northern Ireland’s Ulster Scots last week presented by Kevin McAleer. In it he met with many Ulster Scots and they talked about what constitutes Ulster Scots ‘culture’. The striking admission in that programme was by one participant who said of ‘Ulster Scots culture’… “it’s all a bit makey-up really”.
    Not recognising themselves (or being recognised as…? ) as either Irish nor English… the programme puts across the idea that it was out of a sense or need of belonging to a place that allows this “makey-up” culture to be going through a kind of “revival” as the programme put it, even though there wasn’t really anything there to revive….. (can’t recall it was BBC NI or UTV, sorry).

    The difference is rather simple (on one level)…. one has a sense of place and a culture of sorts is showing green shoots, the other just won’t settle down and as a result a lot of its ‘culture’ may be viewed as listless by those from whom it seeks assistance and without which it will dissipate.

    1. scundered

      Absolutely. The Ulster Scots thing only seemed to gain speed after government started handing out grants for Irish language and Irish cultural events… the other side behaving like a crying baby wanting a chocolate bar too.

    2. Fair hill

      The Ulster Scots thing will be floundering a bit when Scotland gets rid of the Westminster government they didn’t vote for. The Orange order has been very keen to brainwash acolytes from Scotland over the past 30 years to perpetuate this link, the majority of Scottish people have no interest in NI politics despite being predominantly a Protestant country. Thankfully the link is only kept going by a bigoted minority. And there’s virtually no travellers, too cold for the caravans and open road.

      It appears Darwin’s laws will prevail with regard to the Travelling community, generations of inter breeding and their lifestyle choices will see them dissipate. Being a victim of their crimes now does make me wish the process could be quicker.

      Like I said before I would feel the same about any ethnic grouping who inflicts there ways on me.

  21. postmanpat

    Saying Travelers don’t steal anything that’s not nailed down is like saying Germans don’t get up early to put towels on the sunbeds! We’ve all seen it! I’m kind of jealous to the amount of freedom they have and us saps don’t . You just have to get past the incest, the ‘disappearing’ of mentally retarded infants, (she wasn’t pregnant , she was just fat, ) the general infant mortality , low life expectancy, high suicide rate. Once you can get past those hurdles and don’t wind up dead, sure your on de-pegs back baye!

  22. Kiora

    Just as much crime exists in the settled community as there is in the travelling community, whether you acknowledge it or not. You can quote any number of crimes, illegal activities, or social dysfunctions within the travelling community till your blue in the face but it does not change the fact that the travelling community are entitled to the same equal representation and rights as any other citizen of Ireland. Anything else is just discriminatory. Full stop.

    1. DNS

      Correct – they should have the same rights as you & I. Therefore they shouldn’t be given free (or essentially free) land/accommodation for their caravans.

      I can’t afford the 500/600+k for a house in that particular leafy suburb. Can I buy a nice caravan or chalet instead and the council will just let me site it somewhere there? I might ask them to run some water and electricity up to it too. Maybe provide a free refuse service for me?

      Sweet.

  23. Victor

    It honestly astounds me that in this day and age people are harping on about this nonsense. The rest of us are struggling to survive while knackers (that’s what they are called in my book, I don’t engage in PC bullsh*t, but feel free to use whatever words suit you, I certainly intend to) are given free reign to do as they please and answer to nobody. I run a small family based craft shop. We have been operating in our yard for twenty years, I could spend years detailing the slew of incidents, but here’s on from three weeks ago: Our eldest was minding the shop on a Saturday afternoon, alone. A male knacker wearing a vest and strutting in like a pigeon with what can only be compared to a boxer’s belligerence, in the company of a female knacker entered the shop and stole a hand crafted item of high value and many of my man hours. The female placed it in a shopping bag and our eldest saw her at the last minute but was too afraid to challenge them. The Gardaí were alerted but never showed up. Twenty five minutes later they returned, when my eldest gave off a more mistrusting vibe, the male became quite intimidating and began to slate our produce verbally, as if robbing us wasn’t enough. They left in the most cheeky fashion imaginable, fully aware that everyone knew exactly what had happened. The inbred heads on them….

    People here want to argue that they are a different race, they are not. They are Irish just like us, the difference would be identical if any of the ‘settled community’ ( – to use a nonsensical liberal term that doesn’t exist) were to redirect the trajectory of their lineage by nailing their own sister/mother/daughter for 27 solid generations.

    People here also like to point out that the scones of the ‘settled communities’ cause as much crime and anti social behaviour too. Well… Absolutely no argument there. This is why ALL scum in society must be eradicated, en masse, and as efficiently as possible. I’m all in favour of equality there, no problem.

    1. Casey

      This is why ALL scum in society must be eradicated, en masse, and as efficiently as possible

      Hitler, is that you Hitler? There is a fella in New York that wants to talk to you.

      1. Daddy's Home

        That’s what I was thinking only I didn’t want to succumb to Godwin’s law as is so easy on matters like this. But now I see Victor goose stepping around his craft yard.

  24. Michael Cleary

    Have I missed something here. I thought the points Madigan is making make complete sense to me. Where in the leaflet is she been racist. Most of those advocating she is are coming across as bigoted morons themselves. Just because she used the word travellers site in reference to wasting money does not make you a racist. If she left out the word travellers would you be up in arms. I think not.

    so what is wrong with

    a) Lets see if there is a value on all the sites the council own.
    BTW some of the the scroungers are using Mount Anville in all there comments above. Why not mention all the other sites throughout the council that Madigan is saying should be assessed. There are a lot more in the constituency as a whole that should also be looked at.

    B) saying the use of a sites worth millions should be sold to the benefit of the the whole community not just a privileged few (those scrounging off the state) Now lets be clear I am saying that

    Nowhere in the leaflet did I read anything that stood out as racist or anti any ethnic group. all I read was an individual saying lets not waste taxpayers money by wasting valuable resources. I am sure if all the sites were sold then enough money could be spent on refurbishing existing properties owned by the council that are been wasted now and have some money left over to fill in the gaping pot hole on my road. Oh no lets waste million by not selling a site, spend more building a few houses and caravan slots and then make no money out of it.

    Or lets sell the sites, refurbish existing property to house those requiring it because the feel a right to have a free home at my expense, buy additional property if required in suitable value for money locations, refurbish our social amenities that everyone has a stake in (swimming pools, Gaelic grounds….) repair foothpaths, help the elderly suffering from crime………… Who cannot see the legitimacy in this as an idea.

    and whats this crap about saying she is slagging off a Councillor who said it not all about the money and then saying she is all about the money. Of course she is and she makes that clear. If a Councillor did say that then I think Madigan is completely right to say it is about the money. I don’t want a Councillor spending my money my hard earned cash on crap that has no value or benefit to the whole community. If building a site in some of the affluent areas of dublin should happen just to satisfy a misguided need to provide individuals who feel it is a right to be housed is not a waste of money then I again am missing something. everyone has a right to be housed but not when there is no benefit to anyone in doing so. Yes it is about the money and anyone who says it is not has obviously never had to earn a penny to feed their families or put a roof over their heads. They re the ones who feel it is their right to F&*K me up the rear and take my money because they couldn’t be arsed earning a living in the first place. Because a group are of a different ethnic background does not entitle you to anything special. You live in the country and should all be treated equally regardless of race colour or background. I dont see any other ethnic group clamouring for the right to live in leafy suburbia because it is their right and the duty of society to look after them. If we feel the need to house individuals because they have a right to it then lets do so. Lets buy cheap sites build accommodation tax the occupiers. Lets sell the valuable sites and buy cheaper ones and do the community a service by spending our money wisely.

    We have had years of wastage in government and local councils. I for one think that having someone fight to make sure my money is been spent correctly deserves support.

    If that is racist them so am I.

      1. Daddy's Home

        Michael sounds like one of those ranters who call certain FM radio shows late at night declaring that everyone is trying to shaft him.

          1. Daddy's Home

            No I can’t imagine anyone would be wanting to shift him. He’s too worried about what his money is being spent correctly and doesn’t have time for such dalliances.

          2. Michael Cleary

            Has anyone got constructive point to make or is it a continuation of the ignorance you have been showing in the arguments up to now. From both sides by the way. Casey your response calling me a racist is without doubt as offensive a comment one could give. You do not know me or what my background is. If I have said anything that makes me one please let me know and I will clarify the point. I do not object to social inclusion, social responsibility but I do object to wasting money on projects that do not provide value. Is that Racist.

          3. Casey

            Context, your own words: If that is racist them so am I.

            Hullo again you ole Racist you.

    1. Daddy's Home

      It’s subtle Michael, the bigotry, the racism, the fear, the hatred of people who don’t conform to your or Josepha’s standards or norms.

      Where does it end?

      I have read comments on this thread by people who think that travellers and their ilk should be exterminated. Think ethnic cleansing Michael, think concentration camps Michael. Think how subtle hatred and phobia can escalate and turn into genocide. Think Michel, just think. Everything does not revolve around you and your money.

      1. Michael Cleary

        Did I say it did. did I advocate any of the above atrocious comments. No I did not. If you read what I said it is actually about equality for all no mater who you are or your ethnic background. Using the sites as designated may well be the best use of the sites but I don’t believe it is. Since the designation of some of these locations I doubt anyone has valued them and asked could this money be spent to benefit more people that it is presently allocated to do. consider the sale of two sites for lets say ten million. ( arbitary figure because who knows?)Lets spend one million on purchasing land in a cheaper location and spending another million on building the most state of the art facilities for families to live in. Jesus we have 8 million left to build a sport facility near the new site or refurbish 40 derelict houses that are already in the housing scheme or provide a series of talks on social inclusion and the list goes on. It looks like anyone who advocates a value for money argument when it comes to this subject is a racist. I would argue that there is a case for reverse racisim here as well. I been called a racist because I advocate the best use of resources because it does not suit that someone can argue in favor of allocating resources in a fiscally responsible manner. I have not once suggested that I have an issue with any group. To assign me with the label and insinuate that I should be classed along the lines as you described above is reprehensible and offensive. What norms did I advocate. For that matter what norms dis Ms Madigan advocate. Again I ask is it wrong to ask the question is this the best way to spend money. If a site was designated as a storage facility for council artworks or trees to be planted or traffic lights I would argue the same. It seems that if it refers to travelers then it is an area that should not be touched. I ask you to take back you comments above and please disassociate me with the guilt by association stemming from a genuine refusal to bow to the idea that value for money and forcing our elected representatives to think in a way that benefits my whole community is wrong because it discriminates against anyone.

        1. Daddy's Home

          Michael, the land was earmarked for travellers. Forget about the monetary value for a moment.

          It it was earmarked for sheltered housing for elderly people – would you have a problem?

          Or let’s say it was earmarked as a day centre for autistic children – would that be fiscally responsible. Would we need to un-earmark it?

          The amount of tax payers money wasted over the past few years to bail out bankers doesn’t seen to have caused such consternation.

          Like I said it’s subtle, your bigotry and I believe Josepha’s id too. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what to say. I am reading between the lines Michael. Of course Josepha is not going to declare herself a bigot and nor are you, I would imagine.

          1. Michael

            I would advocate the same for any site that was designated in the 80’s regardless of its proposed use. Again if we can sell any site for huge money we should. Think of the state of the art facilities that could be built with proper funding. For me it is not what it was designated for or for how long. It’s about the best use of funds today at a time of austerity and penny pinching. Is it been advocated that we shouldn’t revisit sites in question because they were designated designated so long ago? . I disagree for all points previously made. I am not been subtle or trying to be. Fact. All sites that are assets of the council should be reviewed as a value for money exercise regardless of any longstanding proposed. Use. What is bigoted about that.

        2. scottser

          michael – just to respond to the point on wasting taxpayers money on providing accommodation to travellers:
          no-one has a right to housing. all citizens though have a right to have their housing need assessed by the local authority, who in turn must allow for population increase and plan for same through their county development plans. spending on traveller accommodation hasn’t met targets in donkeys years. The issue with problem behaviours are exacerbated whithout proper housing and that is true for everyone, not just travellers.

          the view that providing accommodation for travellers is a waste of money simply doesn’t stand up. if they end up in homeless services or at the side of the road we as taxpayers face incresed costs in providing primary care and outreach services, environmental and social worker interventions, child welfare and education officers etc. the ‘cost benefit analysis’ that madigan proposes, i bet, does not factor in this expenditure. it makes far more sense fiscally to provide accommodation in this regard, instead of flogging the land off for short-term gain.

  25. Michael Cleary

    So been fiscally responsible is racist. Wanting value for money is racist. Wanting to secure funds to benefit everyone in the community regardless of their background is racist. Hmmmmmm. I see your point. You have argued it so well

    1. Casey

      You are right of course, the important thing is that you are happy about what “YOUR” money is spent on and that all who do not confirm to your standards of good behaviour are exterminated.

      Would that be by lethal injection or do you prefer to go old school and poison them 100s at a time in a gas chamber?

      Would you pick through the charred remains of the bodies to find the gold fillings from their teeth once the extermination process had been completed? After all, the Nazis thought that this was “fiscally responsible” too.

      You are right, you are not just a racist. You are so much more than that. You, Sir, are a fascist racist.

      1. Michael Cleary

        Where did I advocate that anyone should suffer by my ideas. No if anything it can benefit all the community. See the response above to another post. It is no wonder that reason does not work when dealing with people like you. You are blinded by a chip on your shoulder and rhetoric that is meant to shock. You comments are reprehensible and you should be ashamed that you cannot argue without been offensive and shocking . I actually pity you that you have to resort to this type of comment. If it is offensive to you that people want our elected representatives to be responsible with our money the good on you. I ask that you retract your comments above as it is very abusive very offensive without any substance.

        1. Casey

          Once again, I refer you to your own words:

          This is why ALL scum in society must be eradicated , en masse, and as efficiently as possible. I’m all in favour of equality there, no problem.

          Unless, your spellchecker was having an off-day and you intended to type “hugged” where you typed “eradicated” then you are an advocate for genocide.

          I called a spade a spade. You are calling for mass murder. I retract nothing. Stay classy nasty little internet fascist racist man.

          1. Michael

            Casey You have me confused with someone else. Thanks bogman for pointing that out. I didn’t know where the vitriol was coming from as I didn’t bother to read past the few lines of unacceptable crap that that man was spouting.

        2. scottser

          in your case though ‘all the community’ does not include travellers. so which is it? if you want to benefit ‘all the community’ you have to include everyone.

          1. Michael Cleary

            Where did I say it didn’t include any group. Of course it does. They are citizens are they not and deserve to be treated equally.

    2. scottser

      i haven’t used the termm ‘racist’ in any of my comments. you’re being a bit defensive there mate.

  26. Prof Monkey for a head

    They drowned a horse in the river by my house last week. A sound bunch of lads….

      1. Prof Monkey for a head

        Now that you mention it maybe they didn’t. The horse had a particularly bad gambling problem. With all the debts mounting he decided to end it all by tying himself up by the river (horses are notoriously good with rope). Then when they found the body people blamed the travelers allowing his family to collect the insurance money. Very crafty.

  27. bobsyerauntie

    Vile piece of electioneering literature which plays to a discriminatory attitude against travelers that is ingrained in Irish Culture. The candidate herself looks like something from the south Dublin Stepford wives… her father was a Fianna Fail counsellor … creepy… say no more…

  28. Matt

    The vast majority of virtually any type of crime you care to think about which occurs in this country are carried out by Settled people. The people who are responsible for the current economic crisis, the massive cuts to health and social care, losses of pension, imposition of household charge, water taxes etc, are Settled people. The majority of those promoting racism and intolerance are Settled people. The ones making the decisions which prevent Travellers from both retaining their identity and culture and participating in ‘our’ society (which should not be, and in the case of Settled folk are not, mutually exclusive) are Settled people. Demands that Travellers as an entire group should be completely above the law and unimpeachable before ant will can be treated with respect, ignore all the complete gobshite, violent, abusive and criminal Settled people whose faults are never ascribed (at least by fellow Settled people) to their common Settled status.

  29. Fair hill

    Okay so 234 comments later and Still no answers, so I will ask again

    Can any of the bleeding heart Liberals defending this lifestyle and culture, please tell me any benefit, or contribution the travelling community makes to Irish or British life? genuine question, I just can’t come up with one

    Could it be the big old mess left behind and around them
    Cruelty to animals, especially horses
    Stealing anything not nailed down
    Violent threatening behaviour
    Terrorising business people, hoteliers and publicans
    Destroying other peoples property, to name a few of the behaviours which are attributed to this lifestyle (for some reason)

    Now before the BHL brigade say the settled community perform the same anti social behaviour, we know that, but overwhelmingly the evidence points to the cause of most of this behaviour, not anecdotally stems from the behaviour of members of this community.

    It’s not acceptable for anyone to behave in this way, regardless of their cultural hiding place.

    I wonder do a certain thicker percentage of the British population believe through watching Big fat gypsy wedding and personal exposure in some cases that the travellers are representative of the Irish community in general.?

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