Free Tomorrow Evening?

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Justice for the Tuam babies write on their Facebook page:

“[Tomorrow] at 7pm we will march from the Department of Children on Mespil Road (on the canal near Baggot St) to the Dáil. We will hold a candlelit vigil at the Dáil. At the Dáil the names of the 796 children who perished at the hands of church and state criminal negligence will be read out. As each name is read out everyone there will take turns to bring up a child’s shoe or a bib or a toy or flowers…something to represent their little lives. We are hoping to have a lament sung/played during the reading of the names. The reading of the names will be interspersed with poetry and short recounts of the conditions the children endured.”

Justice for the Tuam babies (Facebook)

39 thoughts on “Free Tomorrow Evening?

  1. Just sayin'

    This reeks of bandwagon.
    Justice? We don’t know what even happened yet! You don’t look for justice for someone when you don’t really understand what on earth happened. How about we find out first, then we get justice, whatever that means? Should we just hang the elderly nuns because we don’t like to think that our parents and grandparents thought single mothers were shameful and should be locked up and their kids given to “good” homes?

  2. Lazlo Panaflex

    This is getting out of hands, this culture of victimism has to stop and also constantly looking for apologies from people who were born at the time this all happened. On another note please join my march for justice for cro-magnon man who i found out my back gadren

    1. well

      I agree in a way, instead of seeking apologies we should be pushing these priests and nuns of the Cliffs of Moher.

  3. CK

    I hate the vatican as much as the next atheist but this looks like populist “we must do something” pitchfork mob rousing.

    1. Jess

      Good, this country doesn’t have enough pitch forking. We let people in a position of power away with too much

    1. Leo Dowling

      Moynes’ corduroy flapping in the wind as he racks his brain for a nicer rhyme for “septic tank.”

  4. Clampers Outside!

    “796 children who perished at the hands of church and state criminal negligence” – They know this already, how?
    I’d bet most of those who turn up still think 796 babies were buried in a septic tank. The best way to lose support for the likes of this is telling lies and half truths and making assumptions….

    Sooooo, where do I sign, but first I’d like a Pitchforkus 2000 and some whale oil for me torch.

    1. Lazlo Panaflex

      what if the septic tank was delivered with the babies inside of it already, there are just too many unknowns as yet!

    2. droid

      Amazing how people who ‘dont have a clue what happened’ are so quick to jump down the throats of other people they claim ‘don’t have a clue’ what happened’.

      If the entire history of the church & state in this country, plus the reliably predictable handling of social & health scandals by same is anything to go by, you’re going to be eating these words fairly soon.

      Quite clearly there was serious abuse and neglect occurring in these homes. The logical thing to do is have thorough and neutral independent investigations, involving the Gardai if necessary. The most likely way to achieve this aim is through public pressure, protest being an obvious method.

      1. cluster

        ‘If the entire history of the church & state in this country, plus the reliably predictable handling of social & health scandals by same is anything to go by’

        What does this even mean? What are you comparing it with?

        1. droid

          Do you need a history lesson? Start at the drafting of the constitution and go forward from there. Examine the interaction between state and church on core social issues like health and education. Stop at every sex/abuse scandal along the way and look at the state/church response. Assess the magnitude of collusion and cover up between the two bodies in the context of Ferns/Ryan/McAleese etc. reports.

          This exact situation has happened time and time again. We know the causes, we know the patterns, we know the likely perpetrators and the motives. The only thing to play out is the convoluted pattern of denial, blame spreading and diminishment of culpability which will result in a watered down (but still shocking) report which essentially confirms the initial accusations.

          1. cluster

            Those sex abuse allegations have happened in all developed Catholic countries. Has the response here been slower or less effective than elsewhere? If anything, we have been quicker to confront it.

            Sadly, the sort of treatment which these children experienced has a depressingly common echo with similar stories in the UK, Canada etc.

            Jumping to conclusions before you know anything approaching the facts of the case doesn’t help properly understand what happened nor does it help prevent such occurrences in the future.

          2. droid

            No other developed country has had to deal with such blatant, widespread and institutionalised abuse. No other country has faced abuse on such scale, affecting hundreds of thousands of people. There is little comparisons between isolated sex abuse scandals and the responses to them and the kind of abuse, neglect and slavery that went on in industrial schools, magdalene laundries and mother and child homes.

            And no, we dont know ‘all’ the facts yet, and we never will, but when a bunch of dead bodies are found in the back garden of a serial killer for the umpteenth time, then ‘jumped to’ conclusions tend to be correct. This is just the beginning. It will end with a bodycount of thousands, an official report exposing widespread neglect and mistreatment and Church organisations offering mealy mouthed apologies whilst moving what remains of any potential compensation funds into offshore trusts.

          3. Rob

            You have to stop thinking we are special here in Ireland. The same stuff happened in different degrees all over the developed world during this time. The whole of Europe was at war while this was going on! Millions died from War, Disease, Malnutrition and criminality in the same period so don’t start giving it all that “Oh Ireland our grandparents ( because that is whom you are talking about) were terrible people to let this happen”. A little bit of contextualisation wouldn’t go astray! Save your outrage for stuff that is going on today it would be much more productive!

          4. droid

            ‘Bad things happen everywhere!’ We’re not special’ ‘Dont be outraged’ ‘The past is the past’.

            I doubt you could find a more morally bankrupt POV to be honest (and lets just ignore the fact that at one stage we had more people incarcerated in psychiatric institutions than Stalinist russia).

          5. Rob

            Morally bankrupt! Nah just a realist. I said in another post the only things that might be litigious here are 1) The way these children were buried but I find it funny that the people knocking the church and their nonsense seem to think that bodies should be disposed of in a “Christian way”. The other thing is the higher mortality rate but how much higher in relative terms was it in these institutions? I don’t know do you?
            “(and lets just ignore the fact that at one stage we had more people incarcerated in psychiatric institutions than Stalinist russia).”
            Where did that FACT come from?

          6. droid

            Yes Rob, I do know, and so would you if you were paying even the slightest bit of attention to a topic you speak like an authority on. Infant mortality in the homes ranged from 3 times to 6 times the national average.

            This ‘FACT’ that you seem so skeptical about? Why not go and look it up? http://www.rte.ie/tv/programmes/behind_the_walls.html

            Argument from ignorance isnt a good look btw, but marginally better than ‘loads of bad things happened in the past so lets just forget it, ok dudes?’

      2. Clampers Outside!

        It would need to be 100% spot on that 796 children were buried in a septic tank and every one of them died of some sort of neglect in order for me to have to eat just one letter.

        I’ll be eating no words…. maybe you need to reread what I said.

          1. droid

            Sure. Please remember this conversation when the body count hits 4 figures and keeps on rising.

  5. postmanpat

    Priests and Nuns welcome to attend I suppose? Let’s see. This country was founded as a secular democracy, yet let the church run the family planning aspect of our lives. Which was fine for the people in charge because we needed to increase the population to grow the economy. Contraception was not available here legally (until the 1990’s). As a result couples (married couples of course) had ridiculously large families. And anyone having sex outside marriage,.(a lot of people it seems) and got pregnant had to get married quick smart of end up eating sh!t from some dried up crazy celibate virgins. The local priests were up the down the block sticking their nose in everyone’s business. Look, I get it . Different times. People were less educated etc. Now we know better? Or do we? A vigil? A Candle light Vigil? Sounds a bit too religious and “Christian” for me. I won’t be going. I find it ridiculous that the likes of Arch Bishop Martin is banging on about “we must do..(insert whatever here)” and calling for investigations. The state it trying to get the people involved in this nasty business, to help out? And hang themselves? It is like the police asking a suspected murderer for help cracking the murder case. I hate the Catholic Church as much as the next guy. But we have got to simply ignore the church to send a signal. How many of these candle holding saps working themselves into an “Oh My God” emotional frenzy going to change the future? I can already see 20-somethings crying like imbeciles, crying over people they never knew. .Most of the people attending will be in mass the following Sunday and have their kids baptised and the cycle will continue. You know some bishop will send a few clergy to go in “support”. The sneaky feckers! These kids will never get justice. I’m sorry but the organisations involved will drag their heels as usual until the last living witness is dead. The church is 2000 years old. Do you seriously think the organisation lasted this long by giving into state pressure? Come on! What the f*ck to you think the church is up to right this minute in Africa and South America? Hold a candle vigil every day for those poor people if you must. I think people suffering at the hands of the church today are the people we should really be thinking of. .Or, Stop supporting the church. They do more harm than good. And the whole belief is based on lies anyway. Christianity has no place in modern society. If contraception and abortion were available since the forming of this so-called secular state. , NONE of this would have happened. All the suffering would have been avoided.

    1. cluster

      Almost nowhere allowed abortion when the state was founded.

      There would still have been orphanages, and those children might still have been seen as a drain on resources.

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