75 thoughts on “Do The Maths

  1. sinabhfuil

    Let’s see now, if TDs work 8 hours a day for… how many days a year…? that would be… (tongue flattened at lip while figuring, figuring…)

    1. Brendan Gavaghan

      less than 300 euro to support 3 kids himself a car, a mortagage and a dog or 2 lol, they really do want us all to die don’t they

    1. Edalicious

      So blatant and cowardly a weasel word that it’s incredibly offensive. To think that ANYBODY would see that as anything other than what it is.

  2. NoBalls

    How many fuc**ing w&ankers does it take to put a YFG ‘proposal’ together? You do the math.

    1. cluster

      Strange. Mindless hatred against these young ‘uns here.

      I mean, imo, they’re obviously wrong and look a bit silly.

      But the level of bile directed at college kids for thinking up ideas reflects pretty poorly on the commenters here.

      1. NoBalls

        hate the game not the player?

        Cannot agree this time cluster. This type of low rent attitude must be terminated to be honest.

        Otherwise we will have a mindless cycling of boom and bust and no progress in social equity.

        1. cluster

          I think that they are debating something worthwhile. it is clear that we have a cost of living issue – in that, it is more expensive to live here than in many of our ‘competitors’. That makes us more expensive without yielding any real benefit.
          They may be looking at Germany which has no minimum wage or the other countries in Europe, most of which have lower minimum wages than us.
          Personally I think their proposal doesn’t work because it is a very harsh way to try bring down costs and risks making us more unequal even in the medium-term.I also think that there are lots of other sources of cost which could be better addressed and which would be less likely to act like a drag on the economy.
          I also don’t think that their taxation costing proposal makes sense.

          However…

          I don’t really understand why any form of thinking needs to be stamped out.
          By all means, defeat the with logic and pick apart their proposal but nasty, vitriolic abuse towards them because you don’t like the philosophical underpinnings you have assumed for them or because of the background you think they come from (some of the other posters) doesn’t help anyone. See Napper Tandy for some particularly stupid contribution below.

          1. NoBalls

            Thinking?

            I saw little or no evidence of thinking in this proposal cluster.

            I think the assumptions re philosophical underpinnings are mostly valid in this case – the phrase ‘pro business’ was directly referenced by the authors.

            I saw kneejerk reactionary thinking aimed at hurting the poor. Sorry.

            Earned income tax credit as a proposal is an Americanism which does not appear to have been costed and the proposal does little or nothing to address real problems of small businesses – rents with upward only clauses, rates, minimal SME bank lending, high taxes on employment etc.

          2. cluster

            Your final paragraph is much more useful and productive than any amount of sh!te about Blueshirts, West Brits or baby-faced capitalists.

          3. NoBalls

            I only used the nomenclature ‘fuc88ing w**nkers’

            Nothing about the right-wing ideology of the emerging fascist youth.

          4. cluster

            Germany doesn’t currently have a minimum wage (one of seven in the EU that doesn’t) and the minimum wage they are introducing will be less than Ireland’s current level.

        2. cretin

          is that not what we have already, noballs? a mindless cycle of bust and boom? Where would we be if we didnt have a widening gap between the wealthy and the poor…

      2. dara o rourke

        Young ‘uns .You are a bored and underemployed football correspondent working for some Brit red top. And I claim my £10 prize, guvnor.

        1. cluster

          Congratulations Sherlock.
          Unfortunately, you are wrong on one thing. This is my busiest time given that the World Cup is on.

      3. Brendan Gavaghan

        €4 a fupping hour m8, it’s slavery and pathetic and sooo wrong, nobody should be asked to work for that, it’s not enough to eat or pay rent or bills, nvm all together on top of housing levies and water taxes, it is attempted murder to pay a person this, and it is murder if they kill a person as they commit a crime to stay alive

        1. cluster

          The four euro value relates to those under 18. I presume the idea is that minors should not be the primary provider for themselves – i.e. won;t be paying rent, water charges, property charge etc.

          Anyway, the (misguided imo) intention behind such a move (other than the pro-small time capitalists atgument everyone else has assumed) would be to reduce the cost of living for everybody such that the values given above would be sufficient to support workers.

          Obviously, this ignores what would happen to people in the intervening years.

      4. SOMK

        But they’re young and supple and probably still have time left to learn how to backflip, haven’t been divorced, have no mortgages and have never known the true soul eating pain of having your dreams crushed by an uncaring and indifferent society, or baldness.

        AaaaaaaaaaaaaaND they’re in YFG

        Basically f*** them

  3. Liam

    It’s genius. If we move this money over here, and take that money from there, then all this extra money just magically appears.

    1. Brendan Gavaghan

      appears? its just reducing wages across the board when people are already fupped so bad they cant afford to send kids to school, and not by magic, just blatent efforts to starve poor people to death, increase crime, and widen the gap between those who work and those who were givin everything they could ever want or need by their parents who basically stole it themselves, whoever’s idea this atrocity is, they are guilty of incitement to riot and should be in jail just for thinking this might be a good idea

    1. munkifisht

      I also think looking at this that they are proposing a 33% cut to the minimum wage for those under the age of 18, and a 23% cut for experienced workers. They are proposing this at the same time as we are being told the economy is in recovery. They are telling us this when we have had the longest “negotiated” (or want of a better word) minimum wages in Europe.

      Even Greece, who’s economy was in much worse state than ours, only cut it’s minimum wage by 22% at the worst point in their crisis.

      1. Brendan Gavaghan

        minimum wage lol, I wouldnt work for minimum wage, that all jobs are bottom rung just shows how pitiful the governments of this land have been, and that they want to starve people out of college so only ‘rich kids’ can go makes me sick to my stomach, and worse by far, even more sickening than sending a repoman into a grannys house because she cant pay for water before or after cutting her money again, is the fact that some sicko voted for this

  4. well

    I used to work in a supermarket when i was 19, thats probably the most complex most jobs are going to be for most other people my age then and now.

    Why should back then, and the 19 years olds doing the same work today get payed less to shift some boxes and cans of beans ,it takes 15 minutes experience.

    1. Brendan Gavaghan

      should be €10 an hour for any kind of work minimum! not as if these quinn and ‘super’ everything groups cant afford it, they swim in money every night fs and then the ones who put them there get 4 f’kin euro a hour? I wouldnt mind a pingpong ball for 15 mins for 4 euro, the owner can gfhs and pay me a tenner per hour + 50% for the 40-60 hour range and 20€ an hour every hour he wants his pp ball minded after 60, it is what is minimum to live on in Ireland, no one should work for 1 brass cent less, it is not viable

    1. Brendan Gavaghan

      or thrown in jail for GBH (intro of either this, water fee, housing levy on their own would do)

  5. nige

    Stupid fuppers. An adult earning their minimum wage for 40 hours a week would not be paying any tax and so could not benefit from the additional tax credit.

  6. Clampers Outside!

    Ridiculous, over complicated, impractical, rhino poop, ageist against the young, and is basically just a reduction in the minimum wage that’ll be open to abuse….. I’m genuinely baffled how this even got to the point of being printed at all.

    1. Drogg

      See i think its a case of the yfg where the bullied kids in school, so now their taking their vengeance.

      1. well

        I think they’re the kids that didn’t have to work while studying. They probably think it’s easy.

    2. Brendan Gavaghan

      because they want you do die with so little care for the world that you don’t vote, it’s called a police state system and it’s FG’s election strategy since their inception

      this is what they do
      this is what Irish people gave their voice and mandate to
      a new famine

  7. More_Bermuda_than_Berlin

    I always smile when I see phases such as “pro-business policy” (first line of last paragraph).

    Why not just be honest and state “pro-business owner” or better “anti-employee”?

  8. Don Pidgeoni

    Seems like sensible and sound evidence-based policy* doesn’t it?

    *written on back of napkin after 6 hours in pub

  9. scottser

    sure why don’t they go the whole hog and get the state to pay all of the minimum wage on behalf of the employer. they can call it job-bridge or something.

    oh wait..

  10. Ahjayzis

    Parents of kids who join YFG should be done for child abuse.

    No one this young should be this sadistic and venal.

    1. realPolithicks

      It is remarkable that someone so young can have such a warped view of society already. This is the kind of thinking that comes from a mind that sees workers not as people, but as numbers on a spreadsheet.

      1. cluster

        There is an argument that our politicians tend to look at people rather than numbers on a spreadsheet, i.e. not as a system.

        We we end up with under-performing systems with all sorts of funny opt-outs and carve-ups which don’t actually work very well for most people.

        An example of this is how health policy is so heavily influenced by anecedotes about people who suffered adverse impacts because they lived more than 20minutes away from a hospital or about the pain a hopsital porter would feel if his salary matched a similar job in any other industry.

  11. Bobojoc

    Young Fine Gael discriminating against the young workers…….
    I believe Fine Gael train these future political enthusiasts by placing them in managerial positions on Jobsbridge schemes in the sweat shops of Bangladesh.

  12. LeScull

    Currently, minimum wage workers on €8.65 an hour have to work 36.4 (gross €315) hrs a week before they pay any “income tax” at all, though they will pay USC of €7.23 and PRSI of €12.60 leaving a net take home of €295 approx.

    Young FG’s proposal would leave the Gross pay for the same hours at €242. Less USC €3.86 and PRSI €9.68. leaving a net take home pay of €228.72
    The tax credits they refer to specify income tax and no reduction in USC rates or PRSI.

    The savings for the employer equate to 73.7 factoring in the employers PRSI contribution. #
    The pro worker policy which will maintain standards of living will cost minimum wage workers 67 euros a week net.

    A 22.4% reduction in take home pay.

    1. ___

      + 1,000,000

      Thank you.

      It’s obvious that whomever thought this up has no idea how people on the lowest incomes are taxed.

        1. LeScull

          People like that have no interest in facts, which is pretty obvious from their proposals anyway, but feel free to.
          They’re blocked from my work interweb unfortunately

          1. cluster

            What am I supposed to take no of here, NoBalls?

            LeScull’s original post was exactly the sort of comment I like to see. All the rest of the comments below wert unsubstantiated ad hominem.

    2. David Higgins

      Completely wrong.

      Gross pay remains unchanged since the new earned income tax credit maintains people’s income.

      I want to thank you for bringing USC and PRSI into this debate because you’ve actually just proven why someone is better off under this proposal. People’s taxable income is now lower meaning that the rates of USC/PRSI they pay will now be lower.

      1. Sidewinder

        Maths please. How a tax credit can do any good for someone who doesn’t pay any tax with their existing two tax credits is beyond me. If they’re someone with dependents and/or a disability you’re just screwing them over even more.

  13. Starina

    So let’s see…an 18 year old in their first year, paying around €450 a month rent for a small leaky room, €50 a week in groceries (when I was in college i scraped by on €35 but that was 5 years ago and I ate a lot of pot noodle. ugh), plus another €100 a month for various bills…divide by €4.92 and divide again by four weeks in a month (average) — you can just about do it but you would not have ANY space to breathe. god help you if you need a car to get to work, or you need to go to the hospital, or you have any regular prescriptions, or – shock horror – you just want to take a bottle of wine to your mate’s house on a Saturday night. Forget going out. Or buying clothes. Or getting a train home at the weekend if your family live elsewhere in the country.
    FUPP FINE GAEL!

    1. trobuff

      Taking a month as 4 weeks, they’d have to be working 38 hours a week to cover those expenses alone.

    1. Napper Tandy

      Fine Gael represent the kind of shady sleazebag who rolls up in a Black Range Rover and Pink Shirt, gets a load of work done for his business and then fupps off without paying his suppliers.

      That’s how business is done in Ireland, get everything for nothing, make a load of profit and fupp off without paying your debts. People like that deserve to have their assets destroyed.

  14. Napper Tandy

    Young Fine Gael, little baby capitalists in suits who hate the poor, despite being the kind of little jumped up wankers who create conditions that lead to poverty.

    They want a two tier society of low paid workers (doing skilled jobs) so their pink shirt Land Rover driving white collar criminal fathers can make even more profit out their various businesses run by middle managers.

    Fine Gael are left overs from the Old English and the Landed Gentry types who have always shown utter disdain for the Irish and Irish culture. They hate the poor, hate the vulnerable and would wipe them all out given half the chance and push the lower middle class into penury so they can get even richer.

    I fupping hate Fine Gael for what they’re trying to do to our society.

    1. cluster

      Your post neatly explains why FF were able to dominate Irish politics for so long.
      FG were slurred as wealthy West Brits.
      Labour were slurred as shoneens, commies and knackers.

      Your silly tribal attitude is exactly what is wrong with Irish politics.

    2. cluster

      You talk about what you think that FG is trying to do to our society (without any concrete examples) and then use a phrase like ‘left overs from the Old English and the Landed Gentry types ‘.

      Who are these Old English you have a problem with exactly?
      People with surnames like Fitzgerald (Hiberno-Norman), Tandy (Anglo-Norman) & Smith?

    1. cluster

      I love that you are suggesting that ‘Independent thinking’ is ‘bred out of YFG’ while at the same time calling these kids ‘Brainwashed c***s’ for daring to have the temerity to make a suggestion.

      What the f*** does independent thinking even mean to you? Except as an insult for people who think differently to yourself?

  15. SOMK

    Any YFG recommendations on how to combat the excessive cost of living issue in Ireland, with Ireland’s consumer prices being 18% above the EU norm?

    Wage have declined consistently since (at least 2009), whilst since (at least 2010) prices have been going up (in the first quarter of this year for example labour costs went down .2% and prices went up from May 2013-May 2014 .4%).

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/retail-and-services/irish-consumer-prices-18-higher-than-eu-average-1.1838207

    1. cluster

      Tbf consumer prices are partially a function of labour costs although I agree there are plenty of avenues to go down that don;t involve reducing the minimum wage.

      For example, Tesco’s margins in Ireland are allegedly the highest they have anywhere. The govt could force the likes of them to declare their Irish margins separately. Perhaps ask them to account for the differences between here and the UK.

Comments are closed.