Water_infographic_publicpolicy

 

So if you were to take away Irish Water and it’s contractors backed by Ireland’s favourite non-resident billionaire, why should we pay for water separately?

The folks over at Public Policy (a neo liberal think tank backed by Atlantic Philanthropies) produced this infographic with their arguments.

*lobs water balloon*

Public Policy

38 thoughts on “Tap Dancing

  1. Am I Still on this Island?

    Atlantic Philanthropies? The same group that closed down the Centre for Public Inquiries when it was digging up too much corruption and was scaring the hell out of Michael McDowell? Yeah, great organisation.

  2. Sinabhfuil

    Of course we should pay for fixing the showerhead-like Victorian public water piping in Dublin and the disaster that is the west’s filthy, infected, scummy water. And it’s going to be dear for the first few years.
    What we shouldn’t do is pay political cronies in yet another quango to make a hames of this.

    1. pedeyw

      Well, that’s kind of the problem. We’re going t have to pay for terrible service and filthy water for the first few years. The water system needs to be fixed but there’s no money. So we’re stuck with a half assed, awful system for at least the first 5 years, and then it’ll probably be sold off.

  3. Clampers Outside!

    Here’s a question for Broadsheet readers….

    I live in a small apartment complex of 46 apartments. Every household is entitled to ‘first leak fixed free’ or something like that. Seeing as there is the whole common area that the pipes are under, a common area owned by 46 individual apartments, do each of the apartments get one stab at ‘fix my leak free’.

    I think they should other wise some have more rights than others, yeah. A leak reaching Block 6 won’t cover a leak in Block 1 because that’s on the other side of the complex and so on…

    Anyway the question is:
    Does the apartment complex as a whole get ‘first leak fixed free’ x 46?
    Also, is there a time limit of the ‘first leak fixed free’?

    Thanks

    1. Medium Sized C

      Is that a rhetorical question? Cos recent discourse would suggest that Broadsheet is the wrong place to be asking that question.

      1. Clampers Outside!

        Well, you don’t ask you don’t get… I’m a big believer in asking, asking, asking… no matter how dumb a question might seem, assumptions are for the really, really dumb.

        So, no it is not rhetorical.

        1. pissedasanewt

          I would say the management company for the apartment block would have the leak fixed..

          What they should have done was setup started charging for water and property in the early days while the troica were here. So they could blame them. Then raise taxes and make cuts in subsequent budgets.

          But they did it all wrong, were arrogant, got a senior arrogant civil servant to lead up the whole thing and now they are fupped. By the end of this they will be paying us to pump water into our homes. “We’ll fit a meter, if you use less them 1000 litres a week we’ll give you 20 smokes and a six pack of dutch gold. “

          1. Clampers Outside!

            But the management company is hired and fired by the owners and do the work we tell them. We have an owner operated board that hires and fires management companies over the last… nearly 20 years. And our accounts are in excellent shape as a result.

            So… I’m thinking the management company could save more money (if pipes needed fixing) if each apartment got its’ ‘first leak fixed free’ entitlement… all 46 of them could mean the management company could have 46 years of free service if one pipe was found leaking every year… see where I’m coming from now….

            My reason for asking is that the ‘first fix free’ approach is causing confusion. Here’s one example – http://www.tullamoretribune.ie/articles/news/42617/local-confusion-over-irish-waters-first-fix-free-policy/
            from that link – “One Tullamore woman who has discovered a leak in her system but whose pipe is in the neighbours garden was told by Irish Water that they will only fix the first leak free if it is outside of the property.
            However, a press spokesperson at Irish Water told the Tribune that the first leak on the consumer side of the property will be fixed free, but the details will not be finalised until January. This contradicts what is published on the Irish Water website.” (I just picked the first story on this matter, there are plenty to be found).

            Add to that that, the common grounds may or may not be viewed as belonging to one apartment or all… who knows what IW will make of it, I’m just seeking clarification and IW have not responded to any request for such.

        2. Nawfil Musty Bang A Frilly

          You can call 1890 448 448 for any queries, it’s only 30 odd cent a minute, and you’ll only wait 45 mins or so for some helpful staff number to tell you, that’s a very good question, we value you, and your questions. Have a good day.

          This says you have to fix it yourself if on your property, otherwise call them, and they’ll eh, sympathise with you or something.

          https://www.water.ie/help-centre/questions-and-answers/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-water-leak-on-my-property/?category=general-information

          “What will I do if I have a water leak on my property?

          If the leak is within the boundary of your property it is your responsibility as the owner of the property to get it fixed. We would advise you to contact an accredited plumber who may assist you in determining the location of the leak and make a repair to the pipe.
          If the leak is outside your property please contact Irish Water.”

  4. Pablo Pistachio

    An infographic! This…changes…everything.
    Good idea for a website by publicpolicy. Start up a ‘think tank’ and whore yourself out to the highest bidder. Wish I’d have thought of it first.
    *thinks about all the water balloons he could have bought*

  5. ringusboreum

    I would have no problem paying for water, if they reduced the equivalent tax and vat they are already taking for it. !

    1. Karl Monaghan

      Great. And therefore increase the amount needed to be borrowed to cover existing services since we’re already running a deficit with the current rates and in the long term pay more interest to those lovely new bondholders. I wonder why the government has just done that then.

  6. Drogg

    Ok this has really irritated me so i will try and keep my language a PC as possible. But if this was about f**king water conservation then why the f**k is there no programs in schools teaching kids about the f**king importance of water conservation and why the f**k are the meters buried outside under the f**king ground where no one but irish water can f**king read them because if you want to reduce the amount of water you are using you need to f**king see how much you are f**king using oh and by the way we don’t need to worry about water conservation we have f**king loads of it, do none of these f**kers not realise we live in a wet f**king country where it rains most of the f**king time we need money invested in our system to make it better but we are not going to suddenly become so arid desert nation over f**king night if anything global warming is going to mean we will be rained on more like all the f**king flood you might have f**king seen recently.

    Apologise for the lack of punctuation and grammar.

    1. Quisling

      Seriously, Drogg? You’ve just hit the bingo of clichés there. Water is a finite resource. It is completely disingenuous to suggest that just because it rains a lot here, that should solve the problem. And OBVIOUSLY, it is up to schools to teach children about conservation and the environment. Sure soon parents will be able to outsource their entire parental responsiblity. And no, you don’t need to see how much water you are using to be able to reduce consumption, you just use a bit of common sense. Turn off running taps, wash only full loads, etc. etc. And global warming, really? You want to wash yourself and your stuff in rainwater, you go right ahead. But just take a look at the other countries where lack of water is a huge problem and imagine that some day that might be you living there, or your children or grandchildren.

      Grow the f**k up.

      1. Drogg

        So water is a finite resource even though it rains here loads and fills reservoirs i think you mean treated water is a finite resource?

        The reason i mention water conservation programs in schools is because just cause i teach my kids that its not good to waste water doesn’t mean other people do. It was a big part of the pro recycling campaigns and anti smoking campaigns when they started teaching kids in school about how bad it was to smoke and how good it is to recycle, so then when the kids go home they pressure parents to not smoke and to recycle and it helped make both those campaigns very successful. So if you want to promote water conservation teach kids when they are young and make it part of their lifestyle so they force parents and grandparents to follow the same path of acceptable use. But yeah stupid me wanting a teacher to teach something to kids how ignorant of me.

        I already turn off taps and only wash on full loads but until i can see a reading of my water consumption i won’t know how much more i have to reduce my usage to meet what is the ridiculous accessible level set by the government.

        I do look at other countries my mother in law lives in spain quiet an arid country that actually has water issues unlike Ireland because you seem to forget it rains here the whole time. But anyway her annual water charges for a single person living alone are €18 a year, €18 euro seriously and here a country where it is not dry after the caps are taken off a family of 4 two adults and 2 children could be paying €800 to €1000 a year.

        So yeah you keep telling yourself its about conservation when the €180million that has already been spent on Irish Water would have gone a long way to plugging leaks that are wasting 45% of our treated water.

        1. Quisling

          Fair enough, Drogg. It was not clear from your first post that parents should also teach about water conservation, as you do. I get incensed when people fob off parental responsibility to the schools (but that’s a rant for another day). And yes, the water infrastructure is crumbling. BUT if the money was coming from Irish Water, rather than out of a county or city council budget, then it might actually be spent on water, rather than be diverted to a set of traffic lights as requested in the local clinic by the voters – or some such parochial stuff.

          I used to live in France, where water is metered, expensive, and undrinkable (mostly). I actually don’t really have a problem paying for water IF that money is put back into the system. It might not be scarce now, but what happens in the future?

          1. Drogg

            Do you know in France a couple of years ago they revolted against the private water system and forced it all to be put back in public hands cause of the skyrocketing prices.

      2. Sam

        And no, you don’t need to see how much water you are using to be able to reduce consumption, you just use a bit of common sense. Turn off running taps, wash only full loads, etc. etc.

        Actually, it is a big help in conservation to be able to see how much you consume. You might know that in general obv using fewer, but fuller washes uses less water, but how much less?
        Is it for example more or less than taking an extra 2 minutes in the shower?

    2. Medium Sized C

      You are displaying your ignorance of the issue.
      Everything you said there is either wrong or falicious.

      But sure its ok, cos you went to a protest that time.

      1. Drogg

        You really have a stick up yer hoop for me, do i annoy you that much? Some of my answers to Quisling above might expand on my previous comment to annoy you some more.

  7. Xena

    It’s not about water charges. It’s about corruption. It’s about bleeding the middle and working classes dry. It’s about an ongoing, global campaign of financial enslavement. It’s about being cheated. It’s about being manipulated by a corrupt media. It’s about an elite doing whatever they want because they have the means to outwit the rest of us. It’s about empowerment, and disempowerment. It’s about environmental destruction by psychopaths. It has nothing to do with water charges, really, and everything to do with realising that you are a resource to be exploited.

  8. Mé Féin

    Call me a nitpicker, but it’s hardly an “infographic” if they start off with a political assertion like “we need water charges.” That’s not information, that’s an opinion.
    It’s really an opinio-graphic masquerading as an infographic.

  9. K Quinn

    More ‘We know best, pixieheads’ from people focused their own ideology (either green or libertarian) rather than actual outcomes. Some inconvenient truths left out of the graphic:

    * Because of our climate, our population size and our existing infrastructure, water is NOT a scarce resource in Ireland, and neither is treated water.

    * It is true that we should fix some of the pipes, but even with the current system, where we are losing 45 percent of our treated water before it reaches a tap, we rarely have a drought.

    * This means that if we took the money we wasted installing meters and setting up Irish water on fixing the most biggest leaks, say 10 percent of them, we would have lashings of water — far more than we actually need. This is just mathematics.

    * There would therefore be no reason to meter it, or conserve it — you only need to meter a scarce resource, and water is not scarce here. You might want to meter it for ideological reasons, the way some people might want to meter all roads, but you should say so openly.

    * We are not in a ‘crisis’ now with water. The only reason we are doing this now is because the Troika told us to, for ideological reasons.

    1. Freia

      You are, of course, correct on all points. However, there will always be those who are only too keen to push for yet more austerity, even those who will be affected by it, they get a kick out of it, a little thrill by being able to say, ‘Look how well I’m getting through this! Look at my accomplishment! I am a BETTER human being.’ They are to be pitied, god love them, as the other common trait they share is a terminal lack of vision, culturally/chronologically/anthropologically/environmentally, I could go on. They are small thinkers. An ability to think outside the prefabricated box they’ve been grown in, is unheard of.

    2. Clampers Outside!

      No.

      Long before this… back in the 1980s, maybe even to the 70s, the EU got onto Ireland about the ‘victorian’ water system operating in Ireland. Successive govts and mostly FF ignored the warnings.

      We were going to have to fix it wholesale at some point. And doing a patch up job, which is basically what you suggest, would also be a waste of money because an overhaul would still be required down the line.

      just sayin’

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