140 thoughts on “Meanwhile, On Carrauntohill

      1. funman

        Your impotence must be a torture you endure daily. But at least you have the internet. Onward, my brave soldier….

  1. Diddley Aye

    Damn straight. While they’re at it theres a good few carved Celtic crosses need tumbling. Oh and I hear Brazils got a statue of Holy God that has no place in a secular democracy.

        1. Always Wright

          Some things are of cultural, architectural or artistic merit. Some things are scrap metal from the era of floral orange wallpaper and ugly bungalows.

          1. pedeyw

            Nice bit of snobbery there. A cross that is “scrap metal from the era of floral orange wallpaper and ugly bungalows” has some cultural merit. A reminder, good or bad, of a past Ireland. You don’t like it. Fine. That’s the end.

    1. Hashtag Diversity

      Yes, the Vatican will close tomorrow, and it’s a great boost to the Yes side in the same-sex marriage referendum. Duh.

    2. Sancho

      I’m all for it. Public property. If you have a cross, why not emblems of other religions? Oh right, cos Ireland is a catholic country and we should use our public property to address the religious desires of the majority only. Not sure people would play that card if Ireland ceased to be an apparently catholic country. But who cares? Let’s get that cross back up!!! Ideally using taxpayer money.

  2. KirkenBrenner

    Good riddance indeed.
    Gotta admire the fact that someone put in the time and effort to get up there and do this.

    1. Always Wright

      I always thought the whole thing of putting a cross on top of a mountain was a bit odd. Was it to remind people that they are that bit closer to heaven than they were at ground level? Or to convince them that god (deliberate lowercase g, because I’m a bit controversial) made the view they’re admiring? Or to ensure that those living at the foothills have a constant reminder that god (yeah, I don’t care) is watching them?
      Anyway, I’m glad it’s gone. Will they need planning permission to erect a new one?

        1. Always Wright

          I’m not old enough to remember JP2’s visit.
          I’m sure you’re right though. I’ll meet you at the cross in half an hour with an angle grinder and a sledgehammer.

          1. Starina

            are you really comparing this very plain chunk of metal with the eiffel tower? it’s not art, it’s an imposition.

          2. pedeyw

            No, I was comparing the papal cross in the Phoenix park to Eiffel tower. They said that about the Eiffel tower, too. I actually don’t like it much but I don’t care enough to demand its destruction

      1. Diddley Aye

        Probably like towers in medieval Italy or minarets in Muslim countries, a demonstration of piety and “my ones bigger than yours”. Who cares, its a part of our history, most of the people involved are dead and you can decide for yourself what it represents. I always wonder about people who want to airbrush history, why are they so threatened now and why do they feel so brave when the fighting is over.
        Btw, I hope for your social wellbeing you dont seriously think you’re being controversial with the lowercase
        god an all.

        1. mauriac

          yes its a fairly basic symbol putting a cross on the biggest hill in Ireland and like post communist countries getting rid of Lenin statues or post independence Ireland melting down Victoria statues a bit of iconoclasm can be healthy… fair play to the anonymous Hezekiah

          1. Kath

            Well said. If anyone’s really interested in not airbrushing history that we should just leave it up there as is, to symbolise the fall of the church in Ireland (and globally).

          2. cluster

            Mountainyeah, of course it does.
            The world had 1 billion people in 1804 and there are 7 billion today.

            In relative terms (particularly in terms of power and influence), I’d suspect the Church is still dying.

      1. mountainyyeah

        Same kind of sniggering that accompanies the theft of relics, etc from churches. Some people have a blind spot where church history is of no relevance to Irish history.

  3. Soundings

    Further proof, if proof were needed, that the country is being overrun by godless Marxist-Leninist-Trotskyist-JoeHigginsist-Jihadist hooligans.

        1. Soundings

          That funny’s been waiting a century to see the light of day. I doff my cap to you sir (or madam, apparently women can be funny too)

          1. Anne

            apparently women can be funny too

            Have you just met a woman for the first time recently or were you always a misogynist?

  4. Alfred E. Neumann

    I wonder what kind of update they are hoping to post when they get there. “Cross still down, but hundreds of smaller crosses have sprouted from the ground where it lies. It’s a Christmas miracle!”

  5. Atlas

    Not sure how I feel about this. I’m all for dismantling the church’s power in Irish society, but tearing down monuments feels like erasing history. I also don’t like the fact that one individual took it upon him/herself to take it down, presumably without any input from the local community.

    1. cluster

      Exactly.

      ‘Tis the same as those that would remove traces of when Ireland was part of the UK, when many Irish people were delighted that hero like Wellington had spring from these shores (the oft-quoted line about a stable was never said by the man himself but by O’Connell)

  6. Guido

    Quite impressive when you think someone put the effort into carrying up a petrol angle grinder, probably a con-saw, to the summit of the highest point in Ireland.

      1. Mark Dennehy

        It’s not like he climbed a rock face (there’s a marked path) but it’s still a fair walk carrying a con-saw. Presumably in the dark, since that’s not as deserted a part of the world as you’d think and sound carries…

        1. Fredtheninja

          you’ve clearly never done this climb. There’s 8 marked paths, all coming from different angles. Every one of them is dangerous to varying degrees during the day, let alone at night time. Whoever did this was a local with good climbing knowledge. Also, there is no life whatsoever for a few kilometres from the peak.

  7. Fergus O'Leprosy

    Historic value my ass!

    What sane person wants/needs to be reminded of our shameful subservience to the Catholic Church?

    Cut down ALL the crosses, (and burn ALL the flags while you’re at it).
    They only serve as instruments of division, and have no place in a civilised World.

    1. Diddley Aye

      Like I referred to above, would you include Christ the Redeemer on the cutting list. What are you, the Unreligious Police

    2. pedeyw

      I think you’re confusing cause and symptom. People are very good at finding reasons to hate each other.

    3. cluster

      You’re right, Fergus. We need to get back to Year Zero without any of this complicated, ambivalent muck which is our inheritance from the past.

      You start rounding up the priests and I’ll herd up the lads with glasses.

  8. Fergus O'Leprosy

    PS.
    And don’t get me started on what I think of people who hold religious beliefs, of ANY persuasion.

    -If you want to waste your life like that, so be it, but don’t expect me not to laugh at you.

  9. Derek

    There was a papal cross erected in Cusco, Peru when Pope JP II visited. It was later torn down as the catholic church lost favour.

    I’m waiting for the one in the Phoenix Park to be removed.

    1. veritas

      Speaking of vandalism does anyone remember the news item from 1976 about someone defacing Ireland’s highest mountain with a couple of rusty girders

    2. cluster

      It should stay as it captures the apex of a movement of significant social significance at the time. The move away from the church was really just beginning to gather some small amount if momentum then.

      It should stay, just as the Wellington monument should stay.

  10. CousinJack

    No big water protests today, must have been the sinster elements at work

    (read it in the sindo tomorrow!)

  11. The bringer of facts

    Tear down the relics of the past.

    Ireland is becoming a true republic.

    Leave your superstition and icons of repression in your churches.

    Keep them out of my eyeline.

    Planning permission to put it back up??

    Hope so, I will be quick to write my objection letter.

        1. cluster

          You don’t become a true republic by unilaterally imposing your personal beliefs on the landscape and built environment around you.

      1. Alfred E. Neumann

        No doubt, but was it a lone Cistercian with girders to spare, or did someone get commissioned to put it there?

        1. Anne

          I’m not sure Alfred.. there was a wooden cross there from the 50s, which was probably rotting I suppose.

          It’s supposed to mark the summit. The pinnacle of the climb.
          Never did it myself. Was going to last summer with a bunch from the gym, but it meant getting up at 7am on a Saturday morning..I did a roll over instead. :)

  12. ahyeah

    Fantastic comments from Kerry cllr John Joe Culloty on this…. apparently it was “obviously the work of certain persons who want to bring this country towards godlessness and other abnormalities like gay sex”.

    Wow. Up there with ISIS leading the water protests.

    1. Anne

      Wow. Shocking he’s allowed get away with saying that in this day and age.
      What exactly is gay sex anyway? Would that be the same type of sex straight couples partake in?

      1. bagpuss55

        yeah there should be a law against people expressing views that don’t jive with your p.c fundamentalist beliefs
        #thoughtpolice

    1. cluster

      It doesn’t have to be a cross and it seems unlikely that we will be building many crosses over the next century or so.

      They doesn’t excuse this sort of fascist vandalism

      1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

        On the scale of criminality, destroying a cross ranks pretty low in comparison with the crimes of the Catholic Church. This cross is nothing more than a few pieces of metal bolted together. There is no god to be offended.

        The RCC can put as many crosses as they get planning permission for, on their own land.

    2. Mark Dennehy

      Or let’s try a cairn, like every other mountain does (often because the stones are put there by friends and family as markers for people who died on the mountain).

  13. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    1976 – That was about the time one could call ‘Peak pedo protection’ by the RCC. I am happy to see it gone. It has no historical or cultural value. If it was any other structure, it would not have been allowed to have been erected. It should not be allowed to be replaced.

    The RCC and their loyal followers needs to get the message that Ireland is not a theocracy. The Irish Taliban have lost power.

    If you want to keep the cross at the Phoenix Park, how about making it a memorial to the victims of the RCC. Listing the names of the victims, or the places they were mistreated, at the base of it, would put things in perspective.

    1. Hashtag Diversity

      @Labour have lost their power too. Ponder the reaction if the name-plate on the Rosie Hackett bridge was angle-grinded off.

      1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

        Let me know when Labour hide dozens of pedophiles. They will get their rewards at the next election.

        1. Soundings

          Probably not in the dozens, but as you know Labour and the Democratic Left merged in 1999. Democratic Left included Eamon Gilmore and Pat Rabbitte. Democratic Left was formed in 1992 when the Workers Party split. The Workers Party was intrinsically linked to the Official IRA, an organisation which was responsible for killings
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seamus_Costello

          And other miscreancy, eg counterfeiting
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seán_Garland

          (that’s the reason the Shinners occasionally taunt Labour about fake fivers in the Dail)

          It’s certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that the Official IRA had its own paedophile and sexual abuse issues. How were they handled? Probably in the same manner as the IRA. They’d probably be on a smaller scale because of the relatively smaller size of the Official IRA compared with the Provisional IRA, but in principle, there’s likely to have been some cases comparable to the ones PIRA is presently accused of covering up.

          So there!

  14. GiGi

    Would it not just be as simple as some “scrap collectors” who cut it down with an angle grinder and then realised that it was too heavy and difficult to get down the mountain. Maybe they intended to come back and chop it up into manageable, moveable pieces for scrap?

  15. Langer

    So carrauntoohil loses it’s most famour erection…… plenty up there in the dail that could replace it.

  16. Hashtag Diversity

    Why would anyone here seek to put a political justification (“we hate the RCC”) on a common act of criminality? That’s the propaganda machine of the terrorist at work. Oh, right.

  17. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    I have been up there, only once. It was a Mountain running race. I got to the top, looked around for about 10 seconds, then ran back down.

    It is a great sport, well run in Ireland. The race to the top of Ireland is on May 31st:
    Sat May 31 1:00 PM Carrauntoohil 1137m 12.50km 10/10 (difficulty)

    https://www.imra.ie/events/

  18. Casey

    I do not agree with what has been done but in the words of the church, now is the time for the healing to begin. So I vote they remove it (to keep it safe, like) to a more RCC friendly location and let nature take over the spot.

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