Dr Ali Selim (above) and ‘Charlie Hebdo’ (top)
Dr Ali Selim, of the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland has threatened legal action against any Irish media outlet which chooses to publish cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed which had been published by Charlie Hebdo.
Eoin O’Dell, an Associate Professor in Trinity’s Law School, writes:
Under section 36 [of the Defamation Act, 2009], there are three main issues to be considered. First, it would be necessary to establish that the publication of the cartoons is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by Islam. Since many Muslims believe that visual depictions of the Prophet should be prohibited, satirical cartoons of the Prophet are very likely to meet that standard.
Second, it would be necessary to establish that the publisher “intends” to cause outrage among a substantial number of Muslims. This would be hard to establish where the intention behind the publication is to illustrate a major news item.
Third, even if that is established, it is a defence for the publisher to prove that “a reasonable person would find genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value” in the publication, a rubric which would be easily satisfied by a major news story.
Finally, even if the terms of the offence are made out, the question would arise as to how the offence could be prosecuted. Dr Selim might make a complaint to the Gardaí and, even if they investigate, it would be a matter for the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) whether to prosecute or not. And although, at common law, any individual has the right to initiate a private criminal prosecution, the DPP can decide to discontinue it.
That there is some superficial plausibility to Dr Selim’s misconceived claim demonstrates just how unwise the blasphemy provisions of section 36 the Defamation Act, 2009 actually are. A referendum to remove the reference to blasphemy from the Constitution is promised for this year. If it succeeds, section 36 should be immediately repealed. Thereafter, we should be able to discuss and debate issues of faith and politics, rather than seek to have the law come down on one side or the other of such intractable issues. That is what democracy is all about. And, in that way, we honour the memories of those who died in the attack on Charlie Hebdo.
“That there is some superficial plausibility to Dr Selim’s misconceived claim demonstrates just how unwise the blasphemy provisions of section 36 the Defamation Act, 2009 actually are.”
Exactly. In this case, the law is an ass. As is Dr Selim.
it’s going to be funny watching people defend the indefensible. since when has being offended by a cartoon become more justifiable than murder?
Go on broadsheet.ie… I dare ye.
If you attacked Islam (a minority religion in Ireland) even half as much as you attack Catholicism (the country’s major religion) – relentlessly, on a daily basis – you’d be 6 feet under by now.
It’s time for Western civilisation to stand up to these terrorists. We need to focus our energy, not on the petty failures of our own Christian culture, but in confronting these Muslim nutters head-on.
Western civilisation is the greatest culture the world has ever known – a culture that’s rooted in Christianity that all Irish people have inherited. We ought to cherish it; not abandon where we came from.
Praise be! Hipsters and holy nutters are at long last united against brown-coloured people from a foreign land who practise a heathen religion…Praise the lord and pass the ammunition…
Thanks. Mines 5.56×45mm NATO if you dont mind.
Mines are holes in the ground…
The ol’ “look a squirrel” defence eh?
…is there anything to be said for another crusade?
We need to focus our energy, not on the petty failures of our own Christian culture, but in confronting these Muslim nutters head-on.
that’s very ‘christian’ of you abm. keep up the hypocrisy lad :)
Hopefully he can get elected to the Senate and sit with his fellow religious extremist Ronan Mullen.
Maybe he’s already in the Senate!
ABM you are right, it is time to stand up to these religious nutcases. It’s time to stand up to ALL religious nutcases, including you.
We need to focus our energy, not on the petty failures of our own Christian culture, but in confronting these Muslim nutters head-on.
Policies that killed 500,000 Iraqi kids under the age of 5 … petty failures ?
Child abuse, sectarian warfare, supporting fascists, pogroms and anti semiticism leading to a holocaust … petty failures ?
Pull the beam out of your own
arseeye first amigo…500,000 Iraqi kids under the age of 5? Sources please.
I’m not a lawyer but surely if the Defamation Act is being used, then the person who is defamed i.e Mohammed, and not anyone else, has to be the one launching the legal case!!??
This is the reason we need to get rid of those idiotic Blasphemy Laws – religion has no place in an inclusive society.
I agree that we have to meet these extremist nuts head on – if we don’t, the next thing you will face is the abolition of the Irish breakfast!!! think I’m joking? check the story of the Englishman who was ordered to remove pig ornaments from his window because Muslim neighbours were offended!
Ya if the charge is defamation locus standi is with the person defamed but blasphemy is something very different, just shnaked into the defamation act.
This law is completely ridiculous. The Life of Brian is perfect example of satire that is funny, that challenges the established ideas of religion. Dr Selims point is fairly pointless, any case is likely to fall flat on its face and rightly so.
And was banned in Ireland…
Until the 80s
Religion is a lie anyway
Way to further alienate your community Dr Selim.
As I understand it, most of his community in Ireland groan to themselves anytime this attention seeker takes the podium..
http://islaminireland.com/news/irish-muslims-organisations-praise-school-system/
It’s like if I went to another country and the loudest representative of “my people” was Ronan Mullen. Morto.
Publish and be damned. If someone wants to take a high profile case to the High Court then they risk costs being split and the publication will get TV coverage worth far in excess of costs awarded against them for months. I welcome Ireland’s multi-cultural diversity and taking the case of the Neuro-surgeon whose family were brutally murdered in the Leicester arson case many Muslims clearly plat a key role in this society.
This however is a freedom of speech issue.
I got 2 words for Dr Selim yo
Frankly Dr Selim… va te faire foutre!!
+1
Was thinking ‘ta gueule’ but you’re on the right track
on t’encule!
touchez a l’orange!
The chap is clearly saying these things to keep the waves of his massive ego trip growing.
This could end up being 9/11 times a 100
81?
81.81?
Drat beaten to the punch on a corny maths joke.
81.82
Dam
But you were the most mathematically precise!
…the current blasphemy law was introduced in 2009 by Dermot Ahern specifically to address concerns by Jewish and Muslim lobbies.
I’m impressed Dermot could even spell ‘blasphemy’
I’m impressed he could reach the table.
Pandering to concerns…
I thought it was because the constitution said we had to have one, and the laws we had only covered Catholicism? And so he had to make all religions equal under the law until the constitution could be amended…
He’s got my vote!
An illiterate merchant who lived 1400 years ago who slept in a cave, told everyone he was visited by an apparition of an angel called Gabriel, ascended to heaven on a flying horse, no less, is offended, is he? Does someone today have a direct connection to the thoughts of someone who lived 1400 years ago on the Red Sea coast of present day Saudi Arabia?
No. Nobody does.
All religion is man-made – every. last. one. None are special. None are exempt from ridicule. None.
The barbaric mutilation of children’s genitalia in the name of religion has a logical and linear progression – that is bombing and shooting in the name of religion – both are seen as virtuous and dutiful acts. How is that not open to ridicule?
well said
“If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him”
– Voltaire (thats twice ive seen his quotes today on BS)
god does not exist, which is why man invented him.
Clapton is god! and a bit of a racist
No, Shadow is God now, unless he too has been supplanted at this point.
Pesky kids.
If man invented him, then he must exist!
FGM predates Islam, just to clarify. It’s a cultural practice, not a religious one — it just so happens that Islam has become the predominant religion in regions that practice FGM.
I assumed the poster was talking about male circumcision which is far more widespread.
#notallcircumcisions
#someshortcircumcisions
No, I was referring to all, male and female infibulation – both are equally barbaric if done for solely religious/cultural tradition reasons.
Hear hear.
Sad, some pathetic attention seeker using this atrocity to further his own career. I hope he seeks to prosecute and is blasted out of the air by our all new and improved *super-constitution
*Constitution may not be super or indeed change anything anywhere ever
He condemns the attacks but, like all “moderate” muslims condones the idealogy that lead to them. Shameless.
He is no moderate
this is the dude who wants us to build separate gym facilities for muslim schoolgirls, isn’t it?
same lad….has a book to sell and wants to take a run at office as well.
He sounds great*!
*like a massive co**womble
B*ll*cks. That man is no moderate. He’s no representative of all Muslims any more than ABM is representative of all Catholics.
It’s a religion incompatable with our society. That’s a fact. We can no longer ignore how it views women.
*incompatible
Can’t even troll right
Yeah, Catholicism’s treatment of women is impeccable. And before you go on about “that was *ages* ago” I suggest you look up current Catholic church treatment of women in countries that aren’t in the first world.
And has rightly suffered all sorts of criticism and ridicule because of it. People are not afraid to do so because of threats of violence made against them.
Yeah instead it’s threats of sacking, shaming, excommunication – and for people of faith that’s being threatened with hell. Pretty serious threat for those who believe.
We should equally point out that every religion, with the exception of probably the odd fringe movement, treats women as unequal. Christianity, judaism, buddhism etc all have separate rules for men and women. Absolutely nothing short of secular feminism aims for equality between the sexes.
It should also be noted that Islam is not all Saudi Arabia or ISIS. The Most populous muslim country has had a woman president as had more traditional ones like Pakistan.
Feminism does not aim for equality between the sexes. You cannot speak for all feminists because no two feminists believe the same thing.
Wait, so you know what feminism is but feminists dont? lol good one Paolo me ol cobber!
The so-called cartoon is racist. I’m not a Muslim but am offended by it. Je ne suis pas Charlie.
How is it racist? Islam is not a race
Yet Muslims are represented by the same physical image
Also, p*** off
How else could muslims be represented? There are hundreds of millions of them.
The racists don’t get that though do they? Make em brown and whack a turban on it, amirite, amirite?!
exactly.
I’m always intrigued by people who use the words ‘so called’. I mean it IS a cartoon, what could possible make you think that it isn’t??
It would sound even more wanky and incorrect to say “soi disant”, so I think they should misuse that instead.
It reminds me of David Brent getting annoyed with Tim in the office and using air quotes around his name when he says it.
Steve Irwin was killed by a sting ray, a close relation of the manta ray. I find your username offensive so change it immediately or i’ll do absolutely nothing
You are correct, Islam is not a race. It is a religion practised by 1.6 billion people of all shades and colours worldwide, But the caricature of Muhammed is racist and, as such, is offensive. And it’s offensive not only to people of Arabic origin but to anyone who finds racism disgusting.
bullshit
Judging by his atrocious misuse of grammar, I wouldn’t take these comments too seriously
Sorry, I can only apologise for my poor grammar. Please show me where I’m going wrong…
Never start a sentence with “And” or use a comma straight after it.
And what’s your problem with starting a sentence with “And”?
Using a comma after ‘and’ is quite acceptable, e.g., Without the Oxford comma, the sentence above could be interpreted as stating that you love your parents, and your parents are Lady Gaga and Humpty Dumpty. Here’s the same sentence with the Oxford comma:
I love my parents, Lady Gaga, and Humpty Dumpty
(http://www.grammarly.com)
:)
Offence. That bloody word. Who can calibrate it? I don’t find it offensive. I wouldn’t find a p*ss-take of the Pope/Jesus offensive. It’s a bloody cartoon.
What do you find racist about it exactly that would drive you to be so offended on their behalf?
Is is the depiction of the beard, clothing or skin tone of a man from, what is now Saudi arabia, in the 7th century?
What would you find acceptable?
the cartoon is making fun of a religion, the same way it made fun of Catholicism and Judaism. are you trying to excuse the violence committed because it may be deemed offensive? are you insane?
Where on earth did I try to excuse any sort violence? This is something you seem to have imagined and while a healthy imagination can be a good thing, it can cause all sorts of problems such as delusional behaviour.. Maybe you’re suffering mental health problems and perhaps you should go to your GP…
your use of the phrase je ne se pas charlie is a disgrace, you should be ashamed of yourself.
So much for freedom of expression…That didn’t last long, did it?
LeScull is letting you know that he strongly disagrees with you. He is not hurting or killing you or stopping you from expressing yourself. That is the difference.
You are free to be a tw@t and he is free to disagree.
I’d like to think the offence taken by this person, the baseless accusations of racism and the use of the phrase Je ne suis pas Charlie; a particularly disgraceful thing to say, are just all ill though out mistakes.
Surely all their cartoons are racist? They do stereotypical caricatures of everyone in every country of every religion, in which case does that make it non/less racist? I honestly don’t know.
Absolute bullpoo. Please explain what is racist about it.
1- get “Dr” selims email address
2-teach him that we have freedom of speech by all sending him many many cartoons of anything we like (muhammad included)
3-???
4-profit!
….actually we don’t have freedom of expression here….we have a blasphemy law enshrined in the Constitution that is the envy of every religious nutjob worldwide.
Exactly why we should ignore the pathetic ridiculous law in the hopes that some nut job like “Dr” selim tries to take a case against everyone who published the cartoon thus embarrassing and ruining himself financially!
A very striking thought in the aftermath of all this. An Irish magazine would have faced legal action if any such cartoons were printed.
I hope this brings the spotlight onto that infuriating law and it is repealed.
No country has freedom of expression. None, zero, ziltch.
Killing cartoonists, while there are foreign military forces killing fellow Muslims, doesn’t make a lot of sense.
every media outlet across Europe should publish those pictures as a response
And that will help how? How about trying to be a bit grown up about it?
It will help by showing that freedom of speech will not be stopped by religious extremists.
How would it help to gag our press and prevent people from drawing cartoons of a mythical character who died over 1300 years ago?
See the entire other thread
Bono is Mohammed.
No, no, Bono broke his arm. He is not a prophet. Easy mistake to make.
Mohammedge?
If this was any other country, any other professional, I’d have sympathy for the cause of freedom of speech. But here we have a bunch of white, arrogant French journalists who set out to deliberately provoke a reaction. They got it. France is a racist country.
None of these jounralists were moslems, who what exactly were they challenging with their little ditties? Nothing. They wanted to shir the shit. Want to do something about ISIS? Put down the pen and paper, leave the dinner party wine unfinished, and fupp off and join the army.
Sure, freedom to offend must be protected? Sure, unless it’s the freedom to offend the same-sex marriage brigade.
Get over it.
#jesuischarliehaughey
Be that as it may, the correct response to people trying to stir the sh*t is to ignore them, not to murder them. Joining the army and killing the proponents of ISIS won’t get rid of their dogma.
Their complete lack of tolerance for anything other than their brand of Islam has to be debunked in other ways. Not that I know how to do it, but slamming those journalists as racists for doing what they did seems wrong to me.
Bullshit. Next!
Ahmed Merabet was killed in the attack on CH’s offices. He was muslim.
And CH caricatured, mocked and satirised all religions, continuing a long tradition of caricaturing, mocking and satirising religion established in France since the Revolution.
Publish more of them!
#JeSuisDenisOBrien
Section 36 of the Defamation Act 2009:
(4) In this section “ religion ” does not include an organisation or cult—
(b) that employs oppressive psychological manipulation—
(i) of its followers, or
(ii) for the purpose of gaining new followers.
Sounds like all religions to me!
Well done broadsheet.ie. I’m proud of you.