Last night.
The closing of the Sinn Féin ard fheis in The Millennium Forum, Derry
“The economic crisis and austerity policies of Fine Gael, Labour and Fianna Fáil have forced half a million of our people to leave. It’s time to bring our emigrants home,”
Sinn Fein’s goal was to build a real all-island Republic, adding people North and South realised it made no sense to have two health systems, two education systems and two currencies.
Mr Adams also said the party’s ideals were resonating with the electorate and that was why it was the focus of attacks from Fine Gael and Labour.
Earlier, a motion calling for abortion in limited circumstances passed at the party gathering in Derry.
FIGHT!
Gerry Adams says Sinn Féin wants mandate for government (RTÉ)
Meanwhile….
There’s always one….
At the YFG [Young Fine Gael] conference at the Radisson Blu, Ennis, Co Clare earlier.
Thanks Higgz
…… but no mention of two social welfare systems or how this shower of financial wizards intend to fund the amalgamation of both….
He’s gavin’ a quack read of his script.
+ 1 (touts will be shat)
He’s havin’ a quack read of his script.
Time for change.
Change is something more people will be begging for if Sinn Féin get power.
With a crippled wit like that you’d be a shoe in for Dail wag.
I’ve stood at the mirror practising that sound bite to an imaginary press many times.
They’re special CIA-MI5-KGB collaborated inflatable duck socks. Allows one to walk on water.
but two separate countries normally have two health systems, two education systems and two currencies, you know like Canada and the US…
Yeah – Interesting point and one that Broadsheet “Admin” have been keen to empthasise in bold, as if these were pearls of wisdom.
Why exactly, does it make no sense?
I think what Adams I’d saying is that we should rejoin the UK because there is no point having two health and education system on these two islands. No point in us having a president when the Queen can represent us and is better known world wide. Adams wants to make Ireland more lean and fire duplicate staff in dual health systems which should be combined. At least that what I got from him, although I don’t agree with what he says.
He’s saying reunification is a no-brainer. It’s a single island, artificially partitioned less than 100 years ago, and the offshoot now has, or very soon will have, a majority whose background suggests they want reunification.
Stupid that Dundalk has a different health, tax, policing system to Newry, or Letterkenny to Derry – two Northern Irish cities which would vote for reunification in a heartbeat. Roll on the Border Poll, and then the real reunification poll. A nation once again, four green fields reunited and thanks to Sinn Fein, and Sinn Fein alone as a political party, that will happen over the next decade.
No-brainer as in, you’d have to have no-brain to think reunification is a good idea.
We can’t afford the subsides the rest of the UK pays to prop up Northern Ireland. Expect massive tax increases if you want that to happen.
Anyone remember the 90s? Why would you want to mess with the Good Friday Agreement and reenact our claim over the whole island? There’s still a wall the divides parts of Belfast. We’re not ready to go back down that road.
Speak for yourself in YFG, where your biggest accomplishment in the next decade will be cutting a percent or two off the top rate of income tax, or in Fianna Fail where your main ambition will be to stuff as many of your cronies onto state quangoes, or Labour where you’ll be lucky to survive as a political party given the walloping you’ll receive in 2016. SF will achieve a reunified Ireland in the next decade.
The economics of Northern Ireland are deliberately masked by the British government. Sure, it does receive billions in “block grant” but all its income tax, VAT and corporation tax is collected by Westminster, so all they’re getting back is their own money! Northern Ireland will stand on its own two feet economically without much difficulty, it is a modern English-speaking reasonably well-educated society closeby to a massive market in Europe, and with a 12.5% corporation tax which it will have upon reunification, it would attract more foreign investment, and anyway its unemployment rate is half ours today, we’re the economic zombie dying under €200bn of debt.
As for the peace walls in Belfast, well, they’ll be just as ugly in a reunified Ireland as they are in the perverted subset of Ulster which has been cellotaped to Britain for the last 90 years.
And as for the Good Friday Agreement, it provides for a Border Poll, and then for reunification when it is wanted by a majority on both sides of the Border. The Republic’s position is clear, it wants reunification today, and there is now, or very soon will be a majority seeking reunification on the other side of the Border.
Reunification, here we come baby!
Hang on a second….you’re telling me sellotape is spelt with a c? Cellotape? Oh I’ve been making an idiot out of myself this whole time!
I’m not a FG supporter, I just don’t support your pointless and dangerous ideal. Maybe someday I will, but not now.
And you’re wrong: Northern Ireland costs £20 billion a year to run and only contributes £9 billion a year in tax. Where are we going to come up with £11 billion a year?
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/top-expert-warns-northern-ireland-economy-is-facing-meltdown-28779242.html
I can’t believe you’re dismissing the Good Friday Agreement or that you’re shrugging off that extremist elements could turn nasty again. Seriously, do you not remember the 90s?
Brytothey,
Ever gone shopping in Newry?
There’s a great grocery chain there called Sainsbury’s (like a better quality version of Tesco).
The profit generated by Sainsbury’s in Northern Ireland is pooled with the profit of Sainsbury’s throughout the UK and a single corporate tax payment is made to HMRC in London. This is one example of the taxes that are not accounted for when understanding the economy of the six counties, that is, corporate tax is not separated out for companies operating in the six counties.
It is a myth that the Northern Irish economy with a 6% unemployment rate and no debt, couldn’t stand on its own two feet. It’s the economy down here where we have 10% unemployment and 110% debt:GDP and a massive overhang of corporate and household debt, where we should be really worried (we’d probably get a net benefit from reunification down here).
Ah come on! You’re actually just making stuff up now. Even if that is true, the corporation tax from UK multinationals isn’t going to make up the £11 billion extra that Northern Ireland needs.
Plus the economy is only half the story. There’s still the whole thing about you wanting to dissolve the Good Friday Agreement.
There’s not 11bn in corporate, VAT and other taxes collected in Northern Ireland? That’s a bold claim which I honestly don’t you could back up, there are some meaty asset management operations for example centred in Belfast and billions pass through their books. But, the point is, the finances are masked by Westminster.
For Chrissakes, there’s a 33% deficit in Northern Ireland if you believe the Westminster figures. No country could survive on that basis. Most countries in Europe are around 3% deficits, and how is Northern Ireland any different? Even considering countries like Czech, Bulgaria, Latvia, why should Northern Ireland be worse performing? Truth, most likely, is it isn’t.
As for the Good Friday Agreement, you do understand the GFA allows for a Border Poll? And does allow for reunification when a majority votes in favour on both sides of the Border? No disrespect, but you don’t appear to understand that.
Certain criminal elements might be unhappy with reunification, but without the support and collusion of the British security services, I don’t think any such threat is significant in the context of inevitable reunification. And anyway, democracy should face down such threats.
That unemployment rate of just under 6% in NI is down to the fact that Northern Ireland has the highest rate of public servants through out the whole of the UK where the average is c.20% and NI is just under 30% of its workforce employed by the state.
Expensive
“there are some meaty asset management operations for example centred in Belfast and billions pass through their books.” – it will be like home from home for these lads then.
And with the added benefit of scrutiny by Dublin as opposed to Westminster.
Clampers, they’re making 20,000 in the public sector “voluntarily redundant” right now. And another 20,000 will need to go if the North wants its own corporation tax rate in the UK. What will the retired public servants do with their giant pay packets? Hopefully, start small businesses and create more employment, possibly emigrate like we’ve done. But even if all 40,000 went on the dole, the NI unemployment rate would equal our own.
Compared to our economy, with its debt especially, NI is in economic bliss.
“the offshoot now has, or very soon will have, a majority whose background suggests they want reunification” – This is nonsense. A very significant majority of Catholics want to stay in the UK. A referendum for reunification doesn’t have a hope of passing.
Complete rubbish back at you, and, on the other hand an undetermined number of Protestants will vote for the stability of a reunified country – it’s going to happen inevitably, it’s only a question of when.
But, if you disagree about the numbers, there’s one way to resolve it. It’s call a Border Poll, which is a poll for the six counties only to determine the position of its population towards reunification. I think the vast majority, Catholics especially but enlightened Protestants also who can see the writing on the wall, will vote for reunification. Again though, if you disagree, there’s one way to resolve it!
@Soundings – So you have no evidence. Just your gut instinct eh?
2011 – 52% of Catholics polled want to stay in the Union. 4% of Protestants want a reunited Ireland.
Overall 73% want to stay in the UK
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/jun/17/life-and-times-survey-united-ireland
Ask the question again in 2015 when Catholics, and this time ask it of the whole population in Northern Ireland not just a sample – if you were opposed to reunification, wouldn’t you considering saying you were a Catholic when the polling company called, even if you weren’t.
What is there to be afraid of with a Border Poll. It’s provided for in the Good Friday Agreement. I know the results of the Border Poll (when it happens and it will happen one day) will crystallise the inevitability of reunification.
Reunification, here we come baby!
I’m not opposed to reunification. I’m just pointing out that you’re just making stuff up.
Reunification is a long, long way off…baby!!
Soundings , hope you don’t mind me asking, but what age /age bracket are you?? If you are below 35 I’d say you wouldn’t remember coming home from school everyday to hear about some bomb, some kneecapping, some sectarian violence. A lot of parties, including SF ,contributed to the peace any SF supporters below the age of 35 now take for granted in NI.
An incendiary border poll is not worth the violence and death that would surely ensue from such a vote. I would be voting no and would hope right minded people in NI and ROI would act similarly.
Steve, the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland which voted upon on the same day as the people down here voted on removing the Constitutional claim, and all agreeing that reunification would take place when a majority on both sides of the border voted for it. Presumably you’re signed up to that, as am I. But what you’re suggesting is we don’t hold a vote. That’s deeply undemocratic and a welching on the terms of the GFA. Shame on you.
As regards an upturn in violence. Well, the with a Border poll, the dissident Republican threat would tend to go away, and they’ve killed what? 40-50 since the GFA (biggest single death toll was Omagh). Protestants might be unhappy, but they too have signed up to the GFA and anyway, without the support and collusion of the British security services which they had in Dublin and Monaghan in 1974 and against nationalists generally in 1972-1998, they’re hardly a credible threat and these days seem happy to focus their energies on drug dealing, extortion and people trafficking.
There’s no argument against holding a Border Poll, it will happen some day, it’s just a question of when.
Shame on me. Odd.
There are numerous pieces of the GFA that weren’t implemented immediately and are still being discussed, e.g flags and reconciliation. If they can be left nearly 20 years then the border vote can be left a hundred plus(if ever).
Dangerous talk when you start trying to count how many lives could be lost through an outbreak of violence.
Whatever about water charges , the bank bailout etc, IMO members of the oireachtas would not be able to look at themselves in the mirror if they voted through a bill calling for a vote in ROI and a reformed LVF attacked Saturday shoppers on Henry st. Especially when the counter is what we have now…peace and an ever increasing understanding between two communities on this island. Your border vote is not worth one life.
Away with your glib talk.
Your joking right?
what happens to all the public sector people made unemployed by having single systems? which will be added to by the half a million people mr adams would like to bring home. also, in a single system, where would ira/sinn fein peados go to live?
In fairness we’re not exactly dealing with MENSA candidates at the HTML syntax controls are we?
Are we doing the thing where we pretend that part of our island is part of our island but only in our heads thing?
I love that.
And when we ignore the currency is different and the sports stars and the bigotry and nhs and the accent and the scots thing etc etc forever.
Are you doing the thing where you pretend that part of our island is not part of our island?
There are 32 counties in the Ireland I was born in.
Well then you must be really fupping old. Cos no-one I know remembers there being a 32 county Ireland (even if you count Cork twice)
YFG – where does the “Young” part kick in? Seems to be average age of 30 going on 65.
@Soundings – “and there is now, or very soon will be a majority seeking reunification on the other side of the Border” – care to back this statement up with some….eh…evidence?
Very simply, the last Census in Northern Ireland was in 2011 which showed the Catholic:Protestant split was 45:48 with the other 7 being “other”.
In 1926, it was 34:62 with 4 “other”.
The overwhelming trajectory of history over the last 90 years and particularly the 2001-2011 period, points to Catholics and Protestants being even stevens today in 2015, or at latest, 2016. The reason for the population shift: Catholics have bigger families, are less likely to emigrate from Northern Ireland and are living longer.
Catholics don’t want to continue under the pomposity and antagonism of the Union Jack, when push comes to shove, they’ll all vote for reunification. Enlightened Protestants will also vote for the stability and inevitability of reunification. There’s probably a meaningful majority today that would vote for reunification. As each week passes, that majority just increases.
In 2011 52% of Catholics polled wanted to stay in the Union. You’re delusional.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/jun/17/life-and-times-survey-united-ireland
A newspaper opinion poll in 2011 is not an acceptable way of establishing the voting wishes for reunification. Bring on the Border Poll today when ALL the people in the six counties can vote.
What have the critics to lose? If, as they claim, the majority will want to stay in the UK, then that settles the question. If there’s a majority who seek reunification, then that paves the way for referenda on both sides of the border drawn in 1922-1925.
We will be a nation once again in the next decade. Baby!
I see. So your solution to winning a poll – is to confine it to the people who agree with you?
No – fair play. Democracy in Action. What’s not to like?
Odis, don’t know who your comment is directed at, but I’m supporting a properly executed Border Poll, which will look at the views of ALL the people in the six counties today, as opposed to a newspaper opinion poll four years ago. If a newspaper opinion poll was a valid democratic reflection of intentions, then why would we ever dream of having the expense of elections?!
Bring on the Border Poll baby!
Regardless of religion , people will vote with their heads and what will put more money in their pocket. Soundings as a Shinner , you should be able to understand the simplicity of my argument.
I believe Irish people are patriotic people, generous and good-hearted people, intelligent people who can read the writing (demographics) on the wall, and I believe we will vote in large numbers to reunify the island when the Border Poll is held. And it will be held, don’t be in any doubt about that, it’s just a question of when.
Every year, round about the start of June, Broadsheet likes to run a campaign highlighting the “stupidity” of hard line Northern Protestants, as if this were a subject for humour.
It occurs to me that these aren’t the kindly and pragmatic prods of which you speak.
It also occurs to me that whilst a lot of them seem to be knuckle dragging bigots, quite a few of them have the potential to also be very dangerous.
How do you propose to deal with these people, in your new utopia?
You did sign up to the Good Friday Agreement, didn’t you? You’re not one of those dissidents or minority Unionist bigots, are you?
If you’re suggesting our democracy be dictated to by the potential actions of a tiny minority of criminal elements, then that’s not a democracy I want to be part of. Anyway, as you did sign up to the GFA, which provides for a Border Poll, why the regrets now? Had a roommate back in the day who signed up to a new credit card, went on a spending binge and was totally shocked when she received the bill a month or so later. Why are you unhappy now with a Border Poll which you signed up to when you supported the GFA in 1998? Did you think it would never happen.
Hey Soundings – please feel free to ignore my question. And answer with a load of ****.
So ethnic cleansing it is then – but hey, you can’t make a good omlette without breaking a few eggs eh?
Did your foolish room mate finally repay his credit card bill, you’ve peaked my interest now?
Odis et al. The mask finally came off in the debate above, like an episode of V and the lizard underneath.
I don’t pretend to think that the views expressed by soundings above represent the majority in SF, but clearly it’s an element. A disgusting element. Considering we now have peace on the island which took decades to achieve. What soundings espouses is that the death of one innocent in belfast, armagh, dublin, cork etc is worth having the tricolour flying over every state building in the 6 counties.
If you hate FG, labour, FF, Greens, whoever that’s fine. Don’t vote for them in the next election. Vote for independents or whoever. But don’t vote or give transfers to SF because they will be the only party in the next election who’s policies, as outlined in the Ard fheis and perfectly illustrated by soundings above, will lead us back to the dark days.
Oh and no, I didn’t sign up to the Good Friday Agreement. I left that in the capable hands of Bertie and Tony.
The Easter 1916 centennial commemorations next year will be something that happens to someone else, won’t they. Surely you wouldn’t have the temerity or such a capacity for hypocrisy to participate in the celebration of a time when Irish men and Irish women put aside next week’s economic certainty for a chance for independence. And good luck to you with your fumbling in the greasy till, you certainly had like-minded ancestors a century ago.
For the rest of us, there will be a celebration of 1916, we’ll remember what was fought over and died for, and we’ll look forward to the implementation of the peace treaty in 1998, the Good Friday Agreement, including the Border Poll which seems to keep certain people on here kneeling behind the sofa for fear of the bogeyman. And we will look forward to a near-term reunified country, Dublin, Belfast, Cork and Donegal.
@ Steve – Soundings is a pocket Victoria Nuland – methinks
I’d imagine we’d have to have a vote on whether we wanted reunification with the north as well. I don’t see any way of that passing. At best it would be about 35% in favour I’d imagine.
An opinion poll on that could be interesting.
Absolutely Jay, reunification happens under the Good Friday Agreement when a majority on both sides of the 1922 border vote for it. Why bother with an opinion poll though for something which affects so many in our nation, let’s have the Border Poll, and that’s what’s being argued for now, with the anti-choice keyboard warriors cringing behind their settees trying to prevent people being given the opportunity to vote. The same keyboard warriors will suddenly discover enlightenment if democracy and the ballot box are denied on some of their own pet issues, and then you’ll never hear the end of their whingeing about being disenfranchised, denied democracy etc.
Remember, all that’s being called for now is a ballot, a Border Poll. We will get it, but when? Soon, baby, soon!
Northern Ireland may be part of the United kingdom but it never was and never will be part of Britain. NI has its own driving licenses, money(no queen pics) and even the courts no longer make reference to the crown. This has already happened.
So what with a vote? Nobody really knows but I expect the resistance is more likely to come from south of the border than from Britain. Middle class Catholics in the north are becoming increasing vocal in their distaste of flag waving Loyalists so the longer this is put off; the more likely it will carry.
Seems to be a whole lot of huffin an’ puffin agin a border pole. Wonder why?