94 thoughts on “Accentuate The Positive

  1. donkey_kong

    no debate just censorship while complaining the church/ state censored us for years.
    ah well…

    1. pedeyw

      The thing is the No “arguments” are not valid because do they don’t actually have anything to do with Marriage equality.

      1. newsjustin

        So what does that have to do with censorship? That you deem them to be invalid doesn’t give you (or anyone else) the right to censor them.

      2. General Waste

        Doesn’t matter whether they are ‘valid’ as you put it. We live in a democracy and the No side have as much right as the Yes to put forward their arguments. We the people then get to decide.

        The sneery, smug, self-righteousness of the Yes side is stomach-churning and anti-democratic. And I’m a die-hard Yes-voting liberal.

        1. ReproBertie

          In every general election people vandalise posters and politicians whinge about sinister elements when they know full well it’s the act of the disenfranchised. These isolated incidents are hardly evidence of an anti-democratic leaning on the Yes side but that hasn’t stopped the No side pushing that message.

          1. Paolo

            They may be isolated but there are hundreds of isolated incidents. Vote Yes, just don’t give the No side ammunition.

            “Yes, but their posters are misleading” is not an argument for subverting the democratic process.

        2. Nigel

          In fairness, though, that happens when you;re clearly and undeniably in the right. The vandalism adds some much-needed moral ambiguity to the whole thing.

          1. rotide

            TIL it’s ok to be an insufferable self righeous git as long as you’re ‘clearly in the right’

        3. pedeyw

          It has nothing to do with censorship. I’d expect someone to speak out, and even vandalise my signs if they said vote yes because trees should be red.

          1. Caroline

            You can get a nice cheque written for you if someone calls you a homophobe, when you in fact are no such thing, rendering that a big fat lie. You can censor that lie.

            Other lies are a bit more difficult to censor, so people have to come up with more crude methods.

          1. Paolo

            No, child porn is illegal. It isn’t censored, it is banned entirely. Nice strawman you have there.

          2. ReproBertie

            That wasn’t a strawman, that was a misunderstanding. I misunderstood the difference between censoring and banning.

          3. Nigel

            Er, given that it is banned by government diktat, that is in fact a form of censorship, whereas a bunch of mad dudes and dudettes culture-jamming political posters is not censorship, it’s vandalism, which, coincidentally, is also banned by the government. Seeing as the vandalism is, technically, a form of expression, banning that kind of vandalism is closer to censorship than the actual vandalism is. Not an argument many would have sympathy with, I’m sure, but there you go.

        1. pedeyw

          You can censor truth by taking court proceedings against someone who has an honestly held opinion, despite clear evidence that they’re probably right.

    2. louislefronde

      Ah criminal damage…

      In a democracy we have freedom of speech (subject to law) – if you have to deface posters or tear them down because you don’t like the opposing view point – it says you are not just intolerant, but undemocratic too.

  2. AlisonT

    Pretty sure this carry on will do more good for the no side than the yes side. Likely to increase the number of soft Yes voters who will stay at home.

      1. AlisonT

        Yes, that’s right. It shows intolerance and a fear of debate. The yes side have nothing to hide from yet many appear to be afraid of debate and a reasoned campaign. If they are stooping lower than the No side it will put people off supporting them.

        1. LiamZero

          I don’t think anyone on the Yes side is afraid of debate, quite the contrary actually. But debate is not about one side putting forward lies and obfuscations while the other points out those untruths. It’s about valid arguments being pitted against one another. The No campaigners appear unable to come up with any valid arguments however.

          1. LiamZero

            Enda Kenny would be afraid to debate the fact that his name is Enda Kenny. That’s why he hasn’t taken part in a debate since 1978*.

            * Rough estimate

          2. LiamZero

            Ah come now Louis, you’ll have enough difficulty finding one person to love you… having multiple partners will never be of any concern to you.

        2. jeremy kyle

          When it comes to me making a decision on whether to vote Yes or No I won’t be basing on which side took down or put up the most posters.

        3. Dubloony

          Well, here’s the thing. The No side are not actually debating.
          They have articles in newspapers, the occasional academic meeting, public posters, and the online stuff, but no-one is actually on the street, actually having a discussion.
          Plus they have letters from Bishops at Mass – not sure if churches are having debates during prayer now.

          They are broadcasting a position, not engaged with people at all.

          The yes side have some of the above and are bouncing around the place, knocking on doors, taking the comments on the chin, putting their points across.

          As for the posters, I’d prefer if they were left alone but a bit of street argy bargy is expected in any campaign.
          They should quit whinging and get out there if they really want a result.

          1. newsjustin

            So who are these No people on the radio and TV? Are they not real people, debating?

            The only person who has ruled out debating this proposition is the man leading the Government recommending it to the people.

  3. Anyways

    Very reaassuring to see but seriously those no posters are just depraved. no bearing on children the way no voters think it will, will actually be realised by a no vote so vote yes!

    1. rotide

      While this is obviously a joke, I don’t doubt that many here completely believe and agree with everything said.

  4. Miami Dolphin's Barn

    If signs were up saying “A baby deserves 2 white parents” would you still be as quick to defend their right to post such drivel?

    1. General Waste

      Yup, I’d point and laugh at the stupidity of it but I’d defend their right to be that thick. Also, we’re not being asked to decide on the optimum colour of parents on 22 May. The No posters may be wrong-headed, desperate, bigoted etc but they are legal and have every right to be there without being interfered with.

    2. rotide

      The signs don’t say ‘a baby deserves two straight parents’ now do they?

      Pay more attention

      1. jeremy kyle

        Well to be raised by a mother and father they would have to be straight, in all fairness.

          1. jeremy kyle

            Oh come on I’m really not trying to get into a debate about the feckin’ posters…

            bottom line is the BS on the posters and the whole debate over mothers and fathers are irrelevant to the referendum.

          2. rotide

            The bottom line is that this is anti-democratic censorship on a far wider scale than moustaches and glasses being drawn on gerry at election time and its being encouraged and appluaded here by people that claim to know better.

          3. jeremy kyle

            Yes, that is all true and it’s a mistake to play into the hands of the No side this way.

    3. Tidy Dave

      Equality has to apply to everyone – across the board. Even if you think the No-side are wrong. By all means, voice your view on them being wrong but taking down/vandalising posters is not a show of equality. Good arguments should win out in the end. If you cannot trust this and still feel the need to censor others, then you do not have enough belief in your own argument.

      For those wondering: I’m travelling back home to Ireland to vote Yes.

      1. rotide

        I stopped bothering saying i’m going to vote yes. If you voice anything that isn’t rabid devotion to the dogma you are a homophobic bigot. Or blueshirt. Or Israeli shill.

        1. Joe the Lion

          Even though youre undeniably a tedious one dimensional reactionary dimwit yes rotide I have to say that I agree with the substance of your arguments in this thread.

          I’m confident you’ll not want to see my freedom to insult and denigrate your stupid, floppy, limp wristed contrarianism denied in any way either. Ty

  5. Eamonn Clancy

    If you have time to deface no posters you have time to put up yes posters. Stop being anti democratic and damaging the yes side.

      1. yrtnuocecnareviled

        Oh there’s gold in that…
        “He said: “Homosexuality is a sexual sin, just as rape is a sexual sin. It’s a sexual sin from the bible.”
        He said the Yes campaign was trying to hijack his remarks to fuel their own agenda.
        “You would not agree if it was two brothers,” he said.”

  6. DazzaMazza

    I’m intending to vote yes in the upcoming vote. I’ve listened to both sides and Im heavily in favor of a yes vote. However pushing for equality while denying others the platform to express their view is immensely contradictory. Many of us may find the no sides views outdated and conservative but they do have a right to an opinion. They have a right to express their views no mater how we may disagree. And that’s the point, we can disagree. We can dismiss, we can differentiate between logic and lies. But we cant and shouldn’t support the silencing or suppression of the views of others because they are not on our side.
    Whats really galling about some of this is the fact that there are those who engage in social validation through the support of the campaign on social media platforms yet have not bothered to register to vote. Changing your profil picture on facebook is not a yes vote. Getting up off your arse to go to vote yes is a different matter entirely. We all know there are those who support a yes vote because its a populist view or seems to be winning on twitter or facebook. How many celebs will come out in support of a no vote. How many of your friends or family will silently vote no but are afraid to engage in debate. Changes to our society require debate and alternate views and opinions. We should value those inputs even if we fundamentally disagree with them. Intimidation, ridicule, sabotage and hate have no place here.

    Looking forward to a resounding yes vote.

  7. Kevin

    Leaving the posters unmolested is essential. The best advertisement for the lunacy of the No side’s arguments is the No side themselves. Seriously they should get more airtime, not less, so more people have the opportunity to fully digest what they are saying. And see how discriminatory, false and full of empty rhetoric it really is. I have yet to hear an argument from them that is not a thinly veiled version of ‘I just don’t like gays. It’s not what God wants. I secretly suspect all gay men are also paedophiles. I am better than them so they can’t have the same things I have. They should be happy we even let them be gay.’

  8. Eoghany

    I agree with taking down the no posters. There is one big difference between the yes and no posters. There are individual who are being personally attacked by the no posters, in that the posters are saying that their love life is less equal than everyone elses. Gay individuals are being personally attacked, and I’ve heard of some of them being very upset on seeing them. No individual is being attacked by yes posters. Go ahead, take them down.

    1. Tidy Dave

      The No-side posters I’ve read are not personally attacking anyone – they’re stereotyping. In the context of the changes to the referendum though, the difference isn’t important. What is important, and has been bandied about quite a bit, is equality. The thing about equality though, is that you can’t pick and choose when you apply it. That’s the whole point. Yes, the referendum specifically focuses on marriage equality, but why stop there? Why stand for any sort of inequality? If you take down/deface the posters you are not treating others equally. Yes, the No-side arguments may be full of what I (and presumably you too) consider to be bullplop and make very little logical sense – but argue it coherently, specifically refer to the posters and metaphorically tear the No-side a new one.

        1. Eoghany

          I still feel very strongly about it, and don’t begrudge anyone taking them down. But in the wider sense you’re making a fair point Dave.

          1. Joe the Lion

            Yes it is a very fair point

            But I suppose the equality agenda is an easy one to shill for if you’re not personally a victim of homophobia

  9. sendog

    if only people would pay more attention to some of the other issues going on in Ireland at the moment, things like austerity, income inequality, nepotism, nod and wink attitude in gov, various scandals and many of the usual bullpoo that makes up this cesspool of an island.

    I will be voting yes but in fairness lads, this is a minor issue in relation to some of the legacy issues we face.

    I would hope to see the level of discourse and debate that this sideshow has garnered from the youth of today repeated in the general election. But sadly i doubt that will happen.

    1. Dubh Linn

      Yes the denial of a civil right is only a trivial thing …… sure what harm did it do us as a community or a nation to deny civil rights to them what didn’t deserve them before.

      Sure once, we denied the rights of pregnant women to freedom and slapped them and their children in Mother and baby homes or Magdalene Laundries.
      Sure once we denied the rights of children to health and used the orphans in orphanages to experiment the smallpox sure on.
      Sure once we denied the right of women to be tried by a jury of their peers and dispensed with jurys in some cases altogether for both genders as it was not in the public interest.
      Sure once the Church thought it was grand to ignore the plight of children being administered to by pedophiles and just moved them to another parish “as punishment”.
      Sure once it was grand to shun someone in a mixed marriage …. as for them what married the black lads – outcasts!
      Once upon a time (not so long ago) you had no right to protect your sexual health in this country and the first shop in Dublin to sell a condemn was brought to court.

      Nowadays, we have access to contraception, condemns, fair trials, child protection laws. help for single parents and to marry who we w… DAMMIT ….. oh yes, there are still limitations on marrying if you are LGBT. Let’s get rid of that “little” detail, join the modern world and then we can roll our sleeves up and get on with solving the rest of the problems you list.

      What solutions do you propose?

    2. pedeyw

      At the very least there will be a lot more registered voters so turnout might be a little higher
      higher.

    1. pedeyw

      What I mean is just because someone acts in a way you disapprove of, doesn’t mean you can’t have the same opinion on a yes or no question. The rreferendum isn’t about what you think of people who deface posters any more than it’s about children’s whatever that the no campaign would have you believe, it’s about whether you think gay people should have an equal right to marry. It’s as simple as that. Anything else is a sideshow.

  10. Peter Dempsey

    Some of the No posters are offensive but let’s face it – even if they said just NO TO SAME SEX MARRIAGE and nothing else, people would still vandalise / edit them and a number of you would be ok with that.

    Does anybody else reckon there’s a few closet Yes voters ? People who announce they’re voting No and telling their friends that they’re against SSM but who will secretly vote Yes on the day.

    1. jeremy kyle

      Yeah possibly, then they’ll pretend they did it by mistake because the wording was confusing.

    2. pedeyw

      When you say edit do you mean physically so or do you mean like the photoshop work that was up here the other day? Because while I’m pretty iffy on vandalising posters, I actually think the photoshop thing is a good way to point out the silliness of the no side’s arguments without doing any physical damage.

        1. pedeyw

          Okay, I feel the photoshop stuff is fine, as long as it’s made known that it’s not real. I feel a lot of the anger directed towards it the other day was from people who were caught out and decided wasn’t funny because it made them feel a bit dim.

  11. Clo

    The only posters I’ve seen vandalised so far have been the labour yes ones at Saleen, Co Cork. So not just the yes side at it.

  12. Drogg

    There is a time for diplomacy and this is not one of them, the fight for equality will be a dirty one. I fully support the removal of these highly offensive lies and I just hope somebody calls to my door to campaign for a no vote so I can properly debate and prove wrong all their nonsense ideals. You can say “but what about free speech” and “what about democracy”. Well just because a few posters are torn down it doesn’t mean a no campaigner can’t go out and vocalise there issues but they don’t seem to be willing to do that because their arguments are made up of lies and nonsense. It’s time to stand up and fight for equality. It’s time to stand up and fight for an Ireland we will be proud to leave to our children. I am willing to talk to any no campaigner but don’t think this dog will not bark back at your lies.

  13. d4n

    The arguments over this are as bad as the arguments over equality.
    This isn’t censorship, it’s vandalism, they’re very different things.
    Free speech doesn’t cover lies.
    The people being ‘denied free speech’ here are only too happy to sue for libel and slander regardless of the truth of statements made about them.
    So in the end, the no side get to complain about being censored and slandered, when in fact they’re not even being corrected, and the accusations against them are true, and the yes side get accused of ‘subverting democracy’ for refusing to accept lies, and looking for equality (a necessity for functional democracy).
    The bullshit is unreal.

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