The Bitterest Bill

at

irishwaterbill

Capped charge for three months: €64.10

Metered charge for three months: €416.13

Full year for two senior citizens:  €1664.52

Yvonne Clarke writes:

This is a bill that was received by an elderly couple from Baldoyle, Dublin last week. The fee is capped but  as the couple had a meter fitted, the bill also shows the metered charge,

Please print the bill out. Over 8000 people have shared it now and growing…I urge everyone to share this and also print it to show anyone that thinks that the charges are “okay”.

Fight!

Dublin Says No (Facebook)

Thanks Nick Moran

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114 thoughts on “The Bitterest Bill

    1. munkifisht

      Maybe not. Could well be a broken pipe, dripping faucet or toilet. This will really add up.

      1. Pird

        Three teaspoons of water a second very quickly adds up to the same weight as your car in wasted water every day. A toilet that doesn’t quite stop its flush and leaves a slight running water sound constantly will do that.

        1. AG

          These two people are using over 400 cubic metres of water a year?
          That’s enormous. This chart from the UK says this would be nearly 3 times the max amount one would expect a house with 6 people to use. http://www.ccwater.org.uk/savewaterandmoney/averagewateruse/

          So something is seriously wrong here. If there is a leak, then the point of metering is to identify the leak. So that would mean that the meter has actually done a good job in helping to identify this.
          If there’s not a leak and it’s a mistake, then it’s a huge mistake.
          If it’s accurate, this couple is drinking a LOT of tea.

      2. kerryview

        A leak? If there is a leak how does the ‘actual’ water in equal the ‘actual’ water out? Did they wash the car, feed the plants, wash down the path, pressure wash the house? How does water in equal water out?
        I think I’m going mad.

        1. hers

          They measure the water that leaves the pipes at their house. If their house is leaking water at any point in the system, like the pipes have a hole and it’s pouring into the ground, then that’s what shows up.

    2. Gers

      Yes it is but does that change the result? It is likely a like but might not be a big one and I can imagine there will be thousands of bills like this. Pointing the obvious in this case does not change the outcome!

      1. paul

        Is that the reason they’re doing capped charges for the first while though? To give people a chance to realize how expensive a leak on their property will be, and fix it, before full charges come in?

    3. Original Cynic

      A faulty meter is has not even been considered before the FG “leak” propaganda has been planted!!!!

    4. LOL

      Has this story been planted here by Irish waters PR department to show how cost effective water meters are.
      1200 Liters per day is an enormous amount of water. with a bit of conservation they should be able to get by with 200 liters/day.
      So this is either a leak or a faulty meter.
      If we assume that this bill is the result of a leak on their property, now thanks to the meter it is identified and will be fixed.
      In year one this represents a saving to the Irish consumer of €1664- €260=€1404
      If we take the lifetime of the meter as 20 years then the saving is €28,080
      Now assume that 35000 such leaks will be identified in the next 20 years then the saving is €1 billion
      Three Cheers for the water meter!!!

    1. Cian

      Yes, but that doesn’t give as good rabble fodder. Wouldn’t be surprised if they end up with subsidence from that amount leaking actually

    1. Owen C

      Which is exactly the whole point of metering – to find out where there is clearly way too much water being used vs actual usage. This bill is actually an argument in favour of metering, not against.

      1. fmong

        ” This bill is actually an argument in favour of metering, not against.”

        ahahahahahaha!

        1. Paolo

          It obviously is. If you can’t see that then you are beyond help. This bill is showing one of the following

          a. The occupants use a LOT of water every day
          b. There is a serious leak somewhere on their property
          c. The meter is broken
          d. The meter has not been read correctly

          Worst case scenario, Irish Water fix the meter. Best case scenario, the people fix a previously unknown leak and save the country thousands of euro over the next few years.

      2. brytothey

        I agree. One more very wasteful leak found. Good work Irish Water. Keep upgrading our leaky system.

        1. 15 cents

          not good work. if it was good work, they’d have attached a letter saying theyve found a leak, and to not be alarmed, they will fix it. instead theyre basically just saying “heres a huge bill, its up to you to figure out whats wrong.”

          1. JL

            Why should Irish water come and fix a leak in someone’s house? Like they’re gonna come in and fix the jacks? It’s not a communist country we’re in.

          2. TheMightyOne

            +1

            I can hear the pay for nothing brigade already, “you found the leak, you fit it “

          3. Paolo

            They haven’t found a leak, they have found evidence of a leak. Irish Water are not allowed come on to your property to investigate leaks unless you explicitly request them to.

      3. Donal

        Couldn’t agree more… If this usage does not reflect what was expected, they need to alert Irish Water to this and figure out what needs to change. Could be a leak… Could be leaking cistern… Could just be devices that use lots of water (I have an ancient toliet that uses way too much water — will be getting replaced this year).

        The whole point of this exercise is to change the attitude that it costs nothing to provide water to the majority of people in the country. As a society, if we can change our habits and be more mindful of our use of natural resources it’s going to help all of us in the long run… :)

  1. A lan

    I love the perfection of 112.510 m^3 coming in and 112.510 m^3 going out. So the story here is no water was removed and nothing added. This is complete bollocksology.

    1. Paps

      I don’t think there is a meter running on the waste water pipe.
      It must be the assumption made that in = out.

    2. Atticus

      But unless it’s a leak into to toilet or sink, why are they being charged for taking away the same amount of water? If it’s leaking into the ground it won’t be going back to the treatment plant.

        1. Liam

          Exactly! If a certain amount was watering the garden or washing the car then it’s crazy that Irish Water can charge based on assuming in & out will be the same.

          Definitely not a “facepalm” comment (unless you’re Michael Noonan doing the usual dismissal of valid points crap)

  2. Fiach

    Seems like a big leak somewhere.
    The calculation for the year is 80 cent off.
    And if they were watering the garden (for example), IW didn’t remove the same amount that was supplied.

  3. Fluter Bad

    The water removed fee is bizarre. They presume what goes in must go out. But flasks of tea, bottle water, urine all go back into the system elsewhere.

    1. Just sayin'

      I’m going to bring water home from work and just pour it down my drain to beat the system.

  4. The Old Boy

    The UK Consumer Council for water lists 110 cubic meters as average consumption for a household of two people for a whole year. They’re either running a growhouse or there is a serious leak or faulty meter.

    Source: ccwater.org.uk/savewaterandmoney/averagewateruse

    1. Paps

      Yes but look at that big number they’re not even being charged.

      Rabble rabble laminate the bill , print it, share it , tweet it.

      1. The Old Boy

        What’s more concerning is that this didn’t throw up a red flag in Irish Water’s system somewhere. Anything over 100 cubes per bill on a private dwelling should be seen as suspicious.

        1. JL

          It’s the homeowners responsibility to fix leaks in the house. Why should some government organisation call over and do it?

          1. Original Cynic

            What if the leak was deliberately caused by IW in order to justify its water installation costs?

          2. Kieran NYC

            Irish Water are actually going to fix the first leak free for a customer, aren’t they?

  5. Owen

    HAS to be a leak / broken pipe. There is no way an elderly couple (or any couple) is using this much water unless they are having about 20 showers a day, or running a car wash business on the side. This is not a fair representation of water usage.

    1. Dubloony

      Don’t let facts get in the way of an online story of nasty IW picking on pensioners.

      Its a leak or they have a swimming pool. Go meters!

      1. 15 cents

        so why havent they included a letter sayin “you clearly have a leak. well sort it out. dont worry.” instead of just leavin them to figure it out.

  6. newsjustin

    Seems to be a leak in that property. Or they’re just mad for the ould water.

    They should fix the leak.

    Metering is great for this.

  7. ___

    There’s something really wrong there.

    Normal usage is about 140-150L/day per person.

  8. Randy Ewing

    Maybe its the same in and out due to them irrigating their hydroponic plant factory ?

    Damn hippy dope growing non payers !

  9. FOS

    There is a leak somewhere. Last year we discovered a leak on my mothers house between the water meter and the house, we estimated that the rate of water leaking out was about 7 litres per minute. It does not sound much at first until you do the sums. That amounts to 10080 litres per day, 70560 litres per week, or over 3.67million litres per year.

  10. 评论员

    prob just played oul drummer boy….

    ….they admit the number was “picked out of my arse.”

  11. Soupynorman

    Does IW give a poo if it is leak (on your property)?

    You still pay the full whack?

    1. John Nonymous

      They will fix a leak on the external supply line for free. Anything internal is private property.

  12. Jess

    Very good example of exactly why we need water charges.
    There’s clearly a very big leak on their property which has gone unnoticed and unfixed. Water meters have found it and water charges will ensure it gets fixed.

    1. Talismania!

      It’s really all just for their own good and the good of the shareholders, er society.

  13. Blimpler

    I could be wrong here, and I’d feel better mentioning it if others had done so before me, but I suspect there’s a leak on this property.

    1. scottser

      cynical old me reckons they’re operating a combined laundry and cannabis growhouse. i also suspect they are of asian origin. and possibly gay.

  14. YourNan

    you might want to stop reposting any auld nonsense you get from the plebs, this is actually a good reason to have metered and charged for water.

  15. jonotti

    So they’ve been pissing away water for years now costing the state a huge amount. The high charges will force them to fix the leaks on their property.
    Bravo for water charges which are ultimately going to save us all money.

    1. 15 cents

      pissing away money .. joker .. how would they know? would you go to that old couple and sneer at them for not digging up the ground to check for leaks? and now u think its class that theyll have to pay for leaked water they didnt know about. why didnt IW include a letter saying “you must have a leak. we’ll send someone out” ? coz theyd love people to not realise, and just keep payin for wasted water.

  16. fmong

    I’m laughing my ass of at so many of the posts above, clearly from FG apologists… “oh, it must be a leak” and “this is a good reason for metering!” ..it is fup! This is a bill from a company WHO GOT THEIR OWN BANK DETAILS WRONG ON THEIR BOOKLET! Total jokers, the company is in no way fit for purpose and is just another Quango for the boys!

    1. ReproBertie

      So anybody who thinks the usage reported suggests there might be a leak is “clearly” a FG apologist?

      Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    2. FOS

      Nobody is disputing that IW are a joke, I for one have little faith in them to manage water infrastructure for the country. But people also have to take their heads out of the sand and realise that they have to do their bit too to conserve water in their homes and businesses, we have to reduce or eliminate the waste before the country can see cost savings and more money can be invested to improve the infrastructure for the future.

      1. fmong

        But before that we have to dismantle the Quangos, investigate the corruption and then be able to ask The People to do their bit with a clean transparent slate. I don’t disagree with paying for water I DO disagree with that money going to some joke of a company employing the usual bunch of crooks. When someone is willing to set up a proper company or agency to look after this I’ll engage with the process… in the meantime… *FART NOISE*

    3. YourNan

      god yeah, people taking responsibility for their water consumption, blinkered fascists with only hate for poor pensioners, flawless logic.

  17. My Daddy is bigger than Yours

    so they have a leak in their house and people think that taxpayers should pay to fix it?

    How about they sort out their own mess, If this happened in my apartment my downstairs neighbour would let me know fairly quickly

  18. Corvo

    Unless they half filled an Olympic sized swimming pool (2’500m3), something’s gone wrong there.

  19. declan

    not to be accused of “Fine Gaeling” here but that’s a ridiculous amount of water. I live with three others and used only 26k litres or 35 big skips of water. The people here have used half an olypmic swimming pool

  20. scottser

    everyone keeps suggesting it’s a leek, but no vegetable would use that amount of water unless they’re running a farm on the sly. there’s more to this story than meats the eye..

  21. Bingo

    Even if there’s a leak, doesn’t the water go back into the cloud & is then downloaded to the reservoir server or something?
    And the process starts again.

  22. mike

    Time to think outside the tap here: It could actually be a leak, has anyone thought of that?

    .. something, something, olympic pool, car wash, something something OR

    … creating ice sculptures in the backgarden?

    1. Talismania!

      No way. That’s normal usage, which everyone in the country should have the god given right to consume or indeed pour directly down the drain with no charge or comment whatsoever from any authority.

      And if they choose to use it to create beautiful, temporary works of art from ice, that should be smiled on and encouraged.

      1. mike

        Oi, you, creating ice sculptures from free water in your back garden. NO!!
        With free water.
        And paying for the electricity to freeze it.
        No, I say NO!

        (c) Self-righteous brothers, Harry Enfield.

  23. #Selfie Face

    They couldn’t be using that amount of water, obviously a leak. Complete scaremongering!

  24. 评论员

    Step 1: Make sure your printer cable is connected to your PC

    Step 2: Open the PDF double clicking on the document

    Step 3: Open the printer options dialogue box (see fig:3a)

    Step 4: Check for leaks

  25. Steve

    Hopefully some helpful points for above. IW must assume that water out = water in as per Paragraph 9 of Section 22 of the Water Services Act No 2 2013, unless customer and IW agree otherwise. And i reckon the only way a customer can prove this is if they stick a meter on the outflow pipe.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2013/en.act.2013.0050.pdf

    On the issue of people getting a big bill but not being told that they have a leak. They will be. Regulator is sitting on this at the mo.

    http://www.water.ie/help-centre/leak-detection/first-fix/

    Good diagram on that webpage. Basically IW will fix the External Supply pipe but wont fix pipe work in your house. But sure should ESBN or BGN be made re-wire or re-fit central heating for free in your house???

    * Cue accusations of me being a stooge.

  26. Neil

    If there is a leak, then that water is running to ground, i.e. it is not removed as wastewater. It should not incur a wastewater charge as such.

    1. Liam

      Yup, and if they are using some of that to water the garden / wash the car, etc, then that outgoing figure is pure fiction – there’s no way they should be allowed to charge based on a fictional number pulled out of their proverbial backside!

  27. Menace O'Brien

    ok bit of a side note but it is actually possible to jam the signal used by the vehicles reading the meter’s wireless usage reports .
    IW use at a very low power level, and if you build a jammer like this: http://www.ladyada.net/make/wavebubble/ or buy one from China you can probably jam the van from reporting the actual use. You kind of need a programmable one that you can use to isolate the meter’s RF.
    Ideally however you probably want to spoof the values your meter is reporting, I should probably stop there before I get myself in trouble.
    Just watch out though, jamming signal is pretty questionable legally and buying this tech from the USA is covered by arms trafficking rules, so watch out :O

  28. BX

    Clearly this couple need to look at why they are consuming so much water!! And their neighbours or family might do more to help them than sharing a JPG. It is hardly representative of what water bills will be.

    That bill is 112,500 litres of water or 1,250 litres per day – 8 times the national average of 150L a day. So is it a Plumbing problem? Medical need? Wasteful? Garden? Swimming Pool? Washing cars? Our bill was €35.88 for the quarter – under the capped charge for 2 adults and a child.

    1. Liam

      How did you determine the “national average of 150L a day”, considering that we didn’t have any meters to date to determine what the national average actually was ?

  29. Liam

    Bear in mind also that the €1.85 charge on the bill is the “reduced” €3.70 in/out charge….. the original proposal was to charge €2.44 / €4.88 per 1,000 litres, which would increase the annual €1664.52 bill to an absolutely crazy €2160.33!

    Even adding back in their pittance allowance of 30,000 litres (30x€4.88 = €146.40) per household makes that bill over €2,000!

  30. Wok da Roc

    Guys. doesn’t anybody see that this is neither a leak or a faulty meter. Its simply propaganda..

  31. Sandy

    Folks, this isn’t propaganda, lies, or a leaky pipe! That bill is my parents’ bill. IW have been out to check the meter 3 days ago and the IW worker told my father that he detected no leak whatsoever. They’re obviously worried about this extra bill coming into their household, as anybody would be. I wonder are the meters faulty? I have read that they’re second-hand meters.

    1. Atticus

      If there is no leak, it has to be a faulty meter, or they’re using an incredible amount of water.

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