This evening
Anti-austerity protestors gather outside the Greek Parliament, Syntagma Square, Athens amid the EU endgame whatsit.
G’wan the Greeks.
Alexis Tsipras must be stopped: the underlying message of Europe’s leaders (Guardian)
Earlier: The Real Fear Is Political Contagion
Pics Clark Gilles and Denise Reese
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Well done. A demonstration that democracy still should exist and be relevant. Solidarity.
+2015
-330 bn
I would rather cut off my nose to spite your face. No one will have it easy in Greece for the next five years. I’d rather go hungry and you get nothing. The alternative is still to pay and go hungry.
Very true, this wont end well.
It’s a disgrace that they are collectively standing together refusing to give the shirts off their backs, and the ones who have no shirts have an issue with giving their skin.
Live stream here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/greecelive
They are free to default if they like and then they won’t have the big banking boogy man to blame. The problem is they won’t be able to pay the sort of wages or pensions they are accustomed to the week after so will be looking for more money. Like a junkie needing their fix without sorting themselves out. Why do they feel entitled to be richer than their neighbours. Why is Greece different?
^^^ This
you’re a scream looking for a mouth
Greek pensions have been slashed by 50% and are often the main source of income for families…
http://www.kmov.com/story/29366636/greek-pensioners-describe-nation-in-decline
Say I loose 50% of my legs over the last seven years, if I object to losing more leg the problem is that I’ve clearly become accustomed to having one leg, and will probably just end up looking for more leg if I’m let keep that, why should I feel entitled to have more leg than my neighbours, WHY AM I DIFFERENT?
Where’s your evidence they want more than member states? Why are you retarded? No, really? Dropped on your head?
They’ve been llving on borrowed money for decades and cooking the books. They clearly haven’t accepted their true status as a middling nation.
You could say the same about Italy and the UK. Deficits, and fiddling the books with the help of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase isn’t unique to Greece.
Do you still believe in the tooth fairy and Santy, and that Michael Noonan is some sort of financial renaissance man?
“and that Michael Noonan is some sort of financial renaissance man?”
He is. Shur he taught accounts out in the comp secondary school in Limerick.
That double entry is tottes tricky.
The Germans had massive debts written off from 1948-1953. Why is Germany different?
Owing lots of money is not a problem per se; it’s only a problem when your creditors become worried that you can’t service it anymore.
You’re ignoring the fact that the Germans had way more debt WRITTEN OFF than would get Greece back on track.
That’s completely irrelevant to the question.
Perhaps they should think about reducing their massive armed forces. If ireland has no fast jets, why has greece got a couple of hundred at 20 million a pop.
*kicks tyre
ill gives ya ten grand cash money for that good jet, bass
They’d have to leave NATO, – which I wouldn’t object to, but I can understand why a country in the eastern Med might have a few more jets than a small island in the Atlantic with only one neighbouring power – one which we couldn’t afford to compete with in military spending.
I wouldn’t really call Iceland a power, in fairness
They have a fully functioning Björk which can be rapidly deployed.
Bippity boppity boom.
Ha ha, just remembered that they held the Olympics!! Mental.
That’s like having to host the Eurovision for about 200 years in a row.
What’s the Alternative to austerity in this case? Greece never should have been allowed into the EU and if they do default then on paper they’ve done a runner with 100’s of billions of Euro of bailout money…except that money has been spent and they’re broke even without having to repay their debts.
It’s like someone buying a house, defaulting, not cooperating with the mortgage provider and then asking for more money, except the mortgage provider at least has an asset at the end to recoup some of the bad debt. Greece is focked without a further bailout and giving them a further bailout is like pissing money up the wall
Poor analogy. Only one person buys a house – a country is “run” by a “government”; a group of people (in Europe, usually old white men) that although elected by the people, does not always serve the people’s interests (you don’t have to look much further than here for evidence of that)
Em, so did the people not vote in some nut job who promised to end austerity, who promised to send the lenders packing? Don’t get me wrong, the ordinary Greek person who did actually pay their taxes perhaps voted out of ignorance, but the fact remains the country is focked and my analogy stands up quite well.
The major issue of tax avoidance is also down to individuals, regardless of the government essentially supporting it.
The people get the government they deserve.
What has age profile and skin tone got to do with a government’s ability to run a country? Government’s are elected, not imposed on a populace.
And the Greek people said loud and clear in their last election that they’ve had enough of right-wing corrupt Governments.
There’s been a lot of ‘circular aid’ going on, such as loans to the state which are effectively loans to the banks to pay off the banks creditors in the other EU nations. Only a small portion went to the welfare of the Greek people.
It’s similar to the ‘loans’ we got from the British, which effectively were for paying off British speculators in zombie banks. Washing it through the govt accounts put a label of ‘sovereign debt’ on it, which it wouldn’t have had if the brits had directly funded the banks. Banks, being limited companies can go bankrupt and take advantage of limited liability. Countries don’t have that protection, and major creditors would prefer to put the taxpayer on the hook rather than have to line up with other creditors to deal with a corporate liquidator.
+1
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33217910
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/161D7/production/_83738509_greek_funding_crisis.gif
@ Sam Sums it up.
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/06/16/greek-unwed-sons-to-receive-pension-if-deceased-father-was-civil-servant/
Greek pension system allows for unmarried daughters and now sons to inherit pension I’d deceased patent was a civil servant. No wonder they are in such a state.
that’s mad
Ted.
Ooh, fat thumbs on phone! should read “Greek pension system allows for unmarried daughters and now sons to inherit pension if deceased parent was a civil servant.”
So their concerns for pensioners covers a lot more than little old ladies.
The more that I learn about Greek governance, the less and less surprised I am that they find themselves in this situation.
Bottom line is the EU and the IMF (who broke their own rules to lend to Greece) are the only people that have been prepared to fund Greece for the past 5 years. There comes a point when the insolvent borrower lecturing it’s only lender becomes a bit too ridiculous. Not sure what mandate Syriza think they have from the Greek people, but they’ve driven their economy over a cliff whilst lecturing everyone else about morality and democracy.
The Greek people elected Syriza in January 2015; with a mandate to end austerity.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/29/joseph-stiglitz-how-i-would-vote-in-the-greek-referendum?CMP=share_btn_fb
How are they going to fulfill that mandate if they haven’t got any money?
FG was elected with a mandate for a “democratic revolution” – How did that one pan out?
The Greeks don’t own the Euro, they therefore can’t unilaterally decide what the policies of the ECB should be.
They can only decide their own monetary policies with their own money. And I wish them the best of luck.
You can just vote debt away. Actions have consequences, Syriza have played the hand they have and played it badly.
That’s true, but imagine going to one bank and saying ” I need a loan to pay the bank next door and then it pay you back”…. Goes next door “Any chance of a loan now iv paid you back. I actually borrowed off next door to pay you”. It’s what happens with countries. Money is pulled out of thin air and then excessive rates slapped on it. Why not loan the “made” up money for many 1% more than the cost to pull it from thin air.
Because nobody in finance trusts Greece anymore, nobody. That is a direct consequence of electing Syriza.
Syriza didn’t get Greece into this mess. It was the corrupt Governments that preceded them, the ones people in Finance had no problems trusting and lending recklessly to.
Fupp ’em. They’re up to their neck in corruption. Sling them out of the Euro and EU and let them live like the Gaza Strip. A-holes.
yeah, I think this is default no 12 for Greece, one might say a pattern in relation to attitude to finance is emerging.
You really are a twunt
Greeks elected a government whose bluff has been called. This is the start of a painful end for Syriza’s and unfortunately the Greek people will be the ones who pay for their gamble.
Syriza is the poster boy of the Loony Left in Ireland. Take of what happens.
There are only two realistic options left on the table at this stage:
Option 1: Greece says no to reform, defaults, Grexit, massive short term pain for Greece, probably better for the country in the long run. They’re in (or were in..) primary surplus now, at least.
Option 2: Syriza compromises, agrees to ECB terms, and implements more austerity. Less short term pain, but long term economic stagnation at best.
I’m not sure what all this protesting is hoping to achieve. The ECB is not going to hand over more funding without austerity measures being implemented, despite Syriza’s slightly naive hopes that it can play hardball to achieve this.
Neither option is good, obviously. But Option 1 is probably better for both the Greeks and the EU in the long run. The Greek state will escape more punitive austerity measures, and the EU will stop pouring money into a state that has yet to reform it’s tax code (tax evasion in 2009 by self-employed professionals along was €28bn, according to a study) or cut military spending (currently twice the EU average per capita). To take two glaring examples of failure to reform…
Wheres the money borrowed by Greece and the rest ending up, in the coffers
of German and French banks as payment for their goods, in fact lending money
to payback existing loans and interest, and when there’s an indication they won’t
get it, they print more or in this case electronically generate it to make up for the
shortfall, has it dawned on Junker, Merkel that if Greece can’t come up with 1 and
half billion, but by borrowing 7 billion, how will they ever payback 320 Billion plus.
Its now beginning seep into the minds of the European People that clique have
taken over the control of destiny of the Nations of Europe, who are not elected
and don’t like democracy or want it, if it has be, the elimination of this class with the demise of the Euro, so be it, its better before they take the people of Europe into a war
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMwc1c0HRQ
Meanwhile, Greek printer Inkaros dusts off old Drachma plates.