“For Us, All Lives Are Equal Lives”

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Dr Ali Selim, of the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland

Dr Ali Selim, of the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland, spoke with Seán O’Rourke this morning following yesterday’s attacks in Brussels which left 34 people dead.

Seán O’Rourke: “The Government here has said that an attack in Ireland, that the assessment is that it’s not likely but, at the same time, we cannot consider ourselves immune from the threat. Would you agree with that assessment?”

Dr Ali Selim: “Well I think we are very immune because the problem is happening in other countries. They have talks, they can have international dimensions. As you heard some of your guests talking about some social issues over there in terms of inequality, in terms of lack of access to work and some of the other problems, that they drive members of certain communities into ghettos and push them away from activities and rights the broader society is entitled to.
But, also, it has an international dimension. So if look at some countries who are bombing muslim countries and killing muslims over there and that affects the main muslims stream in the sense that these atrocities that happen in muslim countries, they’re not condemned in actual fact. They’re accepted. And they’re seen as something usual. What happened in Brussels is an atrocity and is condemned but what is happening in Syria, on a daily basis, is also atrocity but is not condemned. Previous to that, we had three explosions in Turkey. We haven’t heard about them in the West, nobody condemned them, nobody talked about them. So it gives muslims the sense that there is a duality, double standard, a high level of hypocrisy that we need to, we need to target. People are talking about integration, in fact in today’s time, in terms of globalisation, we have to talk about developing what can be classified as common values, common…”

O’Rourke: “Right but I suppose people are most interested in what happens closest to them and it’s understandable, for instance, that the Irish media is much more fixated on what happens in Brussels today than maybe they were about what happened in Istanbul several days ago.”

Selim: “And why is that? Why that?”

O’Rourke:Because it’s close, it’s local. And they identify with places maybe that they’ve been to, that they know people who are working in these other cities. It’s not that they, it’s not that some lives are more valuable than others, it’s just, it’s just the way, the people, it’s just part of the human condition I would suggest.”

Selim: “Well in today’s world, where we live in a small village, what happens in Turkey is as close as what happens in Brussels. So I find it really difficult to accept this argument but actually what I would say that, the muslims are exposed to ethnic cleansing in a number of places all over the world and this has been, has not been brought to light. And people in the West simply don’t hear about this. You see tackling the problem of, of what people are facing in Brussels…”

O’Rourke: “Yeah but just coming back close to home, and again, you might have an interesting insight on this. I mean for instance, following the massacre of holidaymakers, including three Irish citizens on a Tunisian beach in June of last year, the Dublin Imam Shaykh Dr. Umar Al-Qadri invited muslims to march against ISIL on O’Connell Street. Now, from an estimate, is it what? 15,000 muslim people living in Ireland, only 50 or show, sorry 50 or so, showed up for that march under the banner of ‘not in our name’. Would that suggest or could people interpret from that that there’s a lack of concern?

Selim: “It’s not lack of concern actually. The way, the main mosque…”

O’Rourke: “Or maybe it’s…[inaudible]”

Selim: “No the way the main muslim organisations looked at that, they looked at it in a way that if something happens, we issue press statements, we express our condemnation, but we do not demonstrate on the street for something like this. And let me ask you…”

O’Rourke: “Why not? As a matter of interest. Wasn’t it an expression of solidarity?”

Selim: “Well if a Catholic person commits a crime in any part of the world, will you be demonstrating on O’Connell Street? You won’t be doing that you see. But you might issue a press statement and that is how…”

O’Rourke: “No but I mean if the people claiming responsibility for it were claiming that they had the authority for this for some sort of perverted interpretation of Catholicism, well then maybe people might.”

Selim: “Well I think the right way to confront it, is to confront ideology with ideology – intellectuality with intellectuality and not by demonstrating on the street.”

O’Rourke: “And are you unambiguous in your condemnation of the radicalism that’s behind these terrorism attacks?”

Selim: “Well we definitely condemn all types of atrocities, we’re conscious of the faith of the perpetrators and the victims, we condemn what happened in Brussels but, at the same time, we condemn what is happening in Syria, we condemn what happened in Turkey. For us, all blood is blood, for us, all lives are equal lives.”

O’Rourke: “Dr Ali Selim, thank you very much for coming in…”

Listen back here

198 thoughts on ““For Us, All Lives Are Equal Lives”

  1. Tish Mahorey

    Donkey O’Rourke is not smart enough for this kind of conversation. He just doesn’t have the finesse of someone who is widely read and well informed.

  2. MoyestWithExcitement

    I don’t recall Sean matching on O’Connel St when the IRA were shooting dead pizza delivery drivers a couple of years ago. What a disgraceful angle from the national broadcaster, further consolidated with that last question. Selim is right, we care effectively immune but I could understand some emotionally fragile Irish Muslims hearing that interview and feeling like they’re unwelcome here.

    1. Terri

      Muslims are welcome in Ireland but those who try as little as possible to actually integrate into Irish society and expect us to abide by their ways are not welcome.

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        No they’re still welcome. Hate filled ignorant racists like yourself are not welcome though.

        1. newsjustin

          That’s a little over the top. Isn’t it reasonable to want some modicum of flexibility and willingness to be part of Irish society? Maybe it’s not fair to say that people who don’t adapt aren’t welcome, but reaching for the “hate filled ignorant racist” card as a response is silly and counterproductive.

        2. Terri

          Being Muslim is not a race, it’s a religion. Going by all your responses I think you are the hate filled person here. We get that you think its ok for these lunatics to blow up innocent people but the majority of people in the world do not.

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            Ah you’re on of those ‘Muslims aren’t a race’ guys. I’ll leave but alone now because I can’t deal with that level of stupidity but I’m sure you’ll continue to amuse us all with your hilarious racism.

          2. Terri

            @MoyestWithExcitement Ah so you’re one of those call everyone a racist, even though you don’t know what the word racist means guys.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            Sssh. It’s OK. You can’t actually see everyone laughing at you so it should be easy to pretend it’s not happening.

          4. Robert

            The term is Xenophobic, but whatever. No harm in expecting newcomers to your society to integrate, but then again many established residents do not.

          5. Rob_G

            Muslims aren’t a race – people of many races can be Muslim.; if someone were to be prejudiced against Muslims, that would make them xenophobes rather than racists.

            You need to update your subscription to ‘Social Justice Warrior Weekly’, it is covered in the latest issue.

          6. MoyestWithExcitement

            Did you read about that in your copy of ‘Oppressed White Christian Man Monthly”? Whatever word you use to describe the demonisation of a big group of people, it’s still utterly abhorrent. That you want to quibble over whether the best word to use is racism (which can be used for religious based social groupings as well by the way) or xenophobia says a lot about you. Also, xenophobia is about *countries*, not *religions*. So that’s one thing that statement says about you.

          7. MoyestWithExcitement

            I’m not trying to catch any flies, Molloy. I’m trying to squat them for fun. All that’s happening here is we’re making words appear on a Web page.

        1. Terri

          Maybe not at the moment but if you let enough people into a country who have no intention of integrating then that is what happens. Its already happening all over Europe so why would Ireland be any different. And before you or any other name callers here start shouting racist, I’m not. I have no problem with different cultures living in Ireland but the ones who want the native people to change to suit them can stay where they are.

          1. Nigel

            No, I think this is what happens when you have an ongoing conflict involving international powers causing a massive refugee crisis and generally destabilising everything it touches, and as time goes on it touches more and more places and more and more people. The problem isn’t the refugess, though they are a problem. THE problem is the ongoing conflict. Is it really that hard to understand?

        2. Terri

          Shut up Moyest you complete ignoramus, you keep saying racist but yet you cannot even comprehend what that word means. You have no valid responses to anything. We get that you support terrorism but calling people names and completely ignoring what they’re saying is just moronic.

          1. fluffybiscuits

            @Terri

            Not one of them has asked for the ‘natives’ to change and to be frankly honest even the term native implies that somehow there is some magical attributes that we must fulfill to be native (white catholic celtic straight people?) . The term is a load of b0llo<ks . People who come here expect to be treated as humans and with dignity and respect. Moyest is perfectly right in his assessment….

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            What Fluffy said. You can’t use the word ‘native’ and get offended when someone calls you a racist. Well, you can but be prepared to be mercilessly mocked. Racists don’t think they’re racist.

          3. Yep

            That’s right. Push people who question immigration policy into a corner a categorize them monsters. Shut down reasonable debate because you just KNOW these people hate people based on skin colour. Cause your always fupping right.

            The journal comment section goes worryingly right while this place is going to the depths of the regressive left. Congrats. You sound moronic and don’t even seem to know it.

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Push people who question immigration policy into a corner a categorize them monsters.”

            You mean like how people are pushing immigrants into a corner and categorising them all as potential Muslim terrorists?

            “You sound moronic and don’t even seem to know it.”

            Its like raaaay–eeee-ayyyyyynnnn, on your weeeeding daaaay.

          5. Anomanomanom

            Seriously Wtf is wrong with you. Are you an imposter, you’ve never been this idiotic before.

          6. Yep

            @ moyest

            I think the irony is in you labelling everyone who is against unvetted mass immigration as anti-Muslim with your opinion having no factual basis.

          7. MoyestWithExcitement

            “your opinion having no factual basis.”

            Yeah, opposition to immigration is generally based on emotion and not facts. It’s like a freeee riiiiiiide, when you’ve already paaaid.

          8. Rowsdower

            Its hardly a shock that Moyest holds such juvenile viewpoints and argues them like a child, just look at their history of utter stupidity.

          9. Yep

            @ moyest

            What the actual fupp are you talking about. What do facts usually evoke? …..emotions you numpty. YOU are the one being presented with facts but have no intention of thinking about them because YOU are so narrow minded.
            I can’t believe you have gone to such trouble in this thread to sound so idiotic. I hope you are still part of the 18-25 demographic because if any older you really need to reassess your thought process. Unbelievable.

          10. Yep

            You’re an idiot. We leave it there so. Trust me. After reading this thread I believe you are in the majority

          11. MoyestWithExcitement

            ”Trust me. After reading this thread I believe you are in the majority”

            Anyone?

    2. Dubh Linn

      Human beings are welcome in Ireland …. just as the Irish have been welcomed all over the world DESPITE “our ways”….

  3. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

    Dude makes some good points especially when you look at what factors help radicalise these people in the first place. We need to look at this instead of simply saying well only leftie pinko commies think that Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria has anything to do with what is happening here.

      1. Rowsdower

        This bombing was in Belgium wasn’t it?

        I suppose, all countries are “The West” now and equally responsible for their actions. Odd that when anyone even hints at Muslim collective responsibility that you and Moyest can barely type racist on your drool covered laptops quick enough,

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          Brussels is the capital of the EU. Go finish your homework now, there’s a good lad.

        2. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

          Belgium was involved in Afghanistan so yes they are seen as the “West” by people who are happy to use foreign policy as a reason to attack passersby. You don’t see similarities between military violence, terrorist violence and the “not in my name” pushback from citizens and Muslims?

  4. Andy McGowan

    “What Ali Selim has chosen to be outspoken against and the causes he has supported illustrates where his priorities and convictions lie, in May of this year Ali Selim attended a demonstration at the Belgian Embassy protesting the burqa ban which was organized by the (now defunct) extremist group MPAC IE which is led by the Wahhabi native of Gorey Liam ‘Mujaahid’ Egan who in the past year has infamously congratulated the Saudi government for executing a TV psychic for the crime of practising “witchcraft”, condoned the killing of homosexuals and stoning of women, as well as the enslavement of women and children in wars.”

    1. MoyestWithExcitement

      So Selim called on the Belgian government to give people the freedom to wear what they want. Good on him.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          No I say good on him for calling on Belgium to give their citizens the freedom to wear what they want.

      1. Janet, I ate my avatar

        Wear what you want yes. Completely conceal your identity in public with full burka NO. Can you wear a bikini in Iraq ? Integration is the only answer. Respect the norms of your adopted country.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          Excuse me, you have no right to tell anyone what they can and can’t wear. If I want to wear a burka, it’s not my fault that you are scared of Muslims.

          1. Janet, I ate my avatar

            Scared of Muslims ? I live in the Paris banlieue beside a mosque. Almost all my neighbours are Muslims .I’m happy here . A call for integration and moderation shared by my Muslim neighbours is radical to you ? Get a grip. You want to live as an extremist pick a country that accommodates those beliefs.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            Riiiiight. You live near Muslims. I bet one of your best friends is Muslim, too. The only rational reason that you don’t want to see people wear a piece of cloth over their head is because it stirs a case emotion in you; fear.

          3. Janet, I ate my avatar

            I’ve no problem with a veil. I live in a Muslin community and yes a lot of my freinds are Muslims and I’m passing on an opinion we have discussed and I happen to share. Don’t get be wrong I’m glad you want to protect people’s rights much better than the other option but only a reasonable discussed moderate response and lifestyle is going to help the people on the ground.Stop with the knee jerk cynicism come over and meet some real horrified Muslims by the extreme elements speaking g in their name.

          4. Janet, I ate my avatar

            All extreme religious signs in public scare the poo out of me including the crucifix. Laïcité toujours.

          5. MoyestWithExcitement

            When did we start talking about extremism? I’m talking about the freedom to wear a piece of cloth over your face if you want. You want to deny people that freedom because you are scared of Muslims. Personally, I don’t think anything when I pass by someone wearing a burka in Dublin. How do you think I should react when I walk by a burka wearer on Abbey St? Should I call the police?

          6. MoyestWithExcitement

            So she speaks for all Muslims does she? If I were to post a link where a Muslim says she wears one of her own free will, you’ll change your mind, yeah?

          7. Janet, I ate my avatar

            I’m suggesting you adapt and respect the social norms of your adopted country.

          8. Janet, I ate my avatar

            Can you go into. a shop with a motorbike helmet on your head or a balaclava in Dublin ?

          9. MoyestWithExcitement

            No but you can go in with a Turban. Should Turbans be outlawed as well, Janet?

          10. Janet, I ate my avatar

            Nope or the headscarf , you can see the person you are dealing with. I’m happy to wear the veil myself to weddings here. I’m not disrespectful just a call for moderation.

          11. MoyestWithExcitement

            “you can see the person you are dealing with.”

            You said it was about respecting customs and not fear, right? Yet you equate burqas with couriers being asked to take off their helmets at some office blocks because of fear. If it’s just about customs, you’d want the turban banned as well but you don’t, because you’re not scared of Sikhs.

          12. Janet, I ate my avatar

            I’m not scaird of people regardless of their religion I am scaird of extremists of any religion. A human face is a pretty basic social norm in the western world.

          13. Anomanomanom

            Just fupp off. Your a complete idiot. I can not walk onto any shop with my whole body head to toe concealed, like bikers removing helmets, remove the burka.

          14. Rowsdower

            If I wear a Balaclava into a bank, I presume someone has a right to tell me im not allowed to do that, no?

          15. ReproBertie

            You don’t need a balaclava. Motorbike riders are expected to remove their helmets when they go to pay for petrol. Clothing intended to oppress women and label all men as rape-happy sex fiends is fine though.

          16. MoyestWithExcitement

            A bike helmet might conceal someone’s identity when they’re robbing the place. That’s why *some* banks and offices have that policy. Let me remind you this is about a *legal ban* on burqas *anywhere*. Are you really comparing a woman walking down the street with a potential armed bank robber?

          17. Anomanomanom

            Yes i am. Like the many many case at Airport, that don’t get reported, of Muslim men with the wife and getting to passport check and wife being a different person. Until the burka is removed for passport check no one notices. And don’t say it doesn’t happen iv worked at Dublin Airport and I know one case there, I was dealing with it and iv heard (can’t confirm) many other cases here and surprisingly a lot in Manchester airport.

          18. ReproBertie

            I’m not talking about banks and offices. I’m talking about petrol stations. A burqa might conceal someone’s identity when they’re robbing the place every bit as much as a motorbike helmet.

          19. MoyestWithExcitement

            Is that a yes? Should we view anyone wearing a burka as potentially dangerous?

          20. ReproBertie

            You’re the one with the gross generalisations. You’re the one who views every motorcyclist as a potential armed robber.

            Instead of trying to win internet points why not deal with the actual point. Why should a motorcyclist be required to remove their helmet when paying for petrol while someone wearing a burqa is allowed remain covered up?

          21. ahjayzis

            Are you confusing the burkha with the hijab?

            I’d describe myself as fairly liberal, do what you want etc.

            But seeing each others faces is an essential part of how our society works, communication. Call me paternalistic but I don’t want women shutting themselves off from society because of religious brainwashing or the like. If you can’t wear a motorcycle helmet into your bank branch or on the witness stand or at passport control, ditto a burkha. Let’s not give religion any more free passes.

          22. ahjayzis

            I have massive questions about the burkha being about women wearing what they want. It’s not even mandated in Islam, it’s a cultural tradition from a specific region.

            There’s nothing empowering about them, I believe they endanger women. It prevents the wearer from engaging and integrating into society, which means they have no support network beyond potentially massively controlling families.

            I believe in an open society, there’s nothing illiberal or racist in saying leave your antiquated, misogynistic customs at the departure gate, women are equal here.

          23. ReproBertie

            According to google image search a burqa leaves just an eyeslit or netting but a hijab leaves the entire face exposed.

          24. MoyestWithExcitement

            “You’re the one who views every motorcyclist as a potential armed robber.”

            Pardonez moi? I said the reason some banks and office blocks have a no helmet policy is because of potential armed robberies and you think this means I regard all motorcyclists as armed robbers? That is just bizarre.

            Instead of trying to win internet points

            Says the guy so emotionally charged he interprets me saying why some places have a no helmet policy means *I* regard *all* motorcyclists as armed robbers.

            “why not deal with the actual point.”

            So what is the actual point, Bertie?

            “Why should a motorcyclist be required to remove their helmet when paying for petrol while someone wearing a burqa is allowed remain covered up?”

            We were talking about how Selim protested Belgium banning the burqa by law. WTF does that have to do with motorbike helmets and petrol stations?

          25. ahjayzis

            That’s my point. The Hijab is a scarf, my catholic granny wears something similar – the Burkha is actively shutting yourself off from society and interaction on the basis of gender.

            We ban FGM even for women who want to do it ‘willingly’ as a cultural tradition because it is damaging, I’d argue the custom of making women invisible is damaging too.

          26. ReproBertie

            Talking with you is like trying to juggle jelly. You never seem to remember anything you posted.

            “Are you really comparing a woman walking down the street with a potential armed bank robber?” This is you making a massive leap from my point about motorcycle helmets V burqas in petrol stations to saying that all motorcyclists are potential armed robbers.

            “We were talking about how Selim protested Belgium banning the burqa by law. WTF does that have to do with motorbike helmets and petrol stations?”
            Because I responded to a comment on balaclavas by saying that wearing a bike helmet is not allowed when paying for petrol. Then you started on about how motorcyclists are bank robbers.

            “A bike helmet might conceal someone’s identity when they’re robbing the place.”
            You said this. I asked how this differs from a burqa.

          27. MoyestWithExcitement

            “We ban FGM even for women who want to do it ‘willingly’ as a cultural tradition because it is damaging, I’d argue the custom of making women invisible is damaging too.“

            Not quite sure we can talk about having your genitals being mutilated when you are a child is the same as wearing a full body scarf when you are a fully grown adult. If someone wants to shut themselves off from the world, that is their right. Nobody has any right to stop them. If they are doing it because of brainwashing from their husband/religion, that is a separate issue which will not be solved because the rest of us banned her from wearing an item of clothing.

          28. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Talking with you is like trying to juggle jelly. You never seem to remember anything you posted.

            “Are you really comparing a woman walking down the street with a potential armed bank robber?” This is you making a massive leap from my point about motorcycle helmets V burqas in petrol stations to saying that all motorcyclists are potential armed robbers.“

            Mate, you seem to constantly misinterpret arguments and jump in the middle of them before you know what is actually going on. Talking to you is just frustratingly tedious because it ends up becoming so disjointed its just confusing. I was talking about the burka ban in Belgium. I RESPONDED to a comment about motorbike helmets. I noted that someone who said she was not afraid of Muslims but then equated them with couriers being asked to theirs off in certain instances. Then you come in with some weird comment about petrol stations. Can you just make your point, please and put me out of my misery?

          29. ReproBertie

            You’re right. I thought you were responding to me but I see now you were actually responding to Rowsdower.

            My point though was that it is ridiculous to insist that a motorcyclist paying for petrol remove their helmet (usually cited as being for security reasons) but making no such demands on a person wearing a burqa.

            You don’t have to reply. This is messy enough already.

          30. MoyestWithExcitement

            “My point though was that it is ridiculous to insist that a motorcyclist paying for petrol remove their helmet (usually cited as being for security reasons) but making no such demands on a person wearing a burqa.“

            Fair enough but I did not insist that. I was talking about how citing that as the reason to ban them indicates fear being the motivating factor for that ban. If private businesses want to implement dress codes, fine. That is a much different issue to what we were originally talking about which was Belgium legally banning an item of clothing worn by Muslims.

          1. Janet, I ate my avatar

            Lol where did you read that. I’m just suggesting you respect t the social norms of where you live. When I taught in Nepal.I covered my shoulders. Respect the society you join. Integrate and there’s less chance your kids will grow up feeling left behind and angry.

          2. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            The burqa is a tricky issue. I think if women want to wear it and aren’t coerced, grand, go for it. It doesn’t bother me. If women are expected and coerced into wearing it, that is another issue. But the reason these kids are angry is not solely due to a lack of integration on their part nor is it due to their mothers wearing a burqa or not. If you live in Paris you know this right? Pushing people out, creating ghettos is not helpful, it creates division and disharmony, it hinders integration.

          3. Janet, I ate my avatar

            Absolutely I am in no way suggesting the issue is that simple. However common sense will allow certain extreme practices are going to alienate your neighbours, colleagues and how about inter marriage. Integration is a massive point.

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            Janet, the social norm in western society is people can wear what ever they like, right? We’re supposed to be differentiating ourselves from the big bad Muslims by giving people freedom, aren’t we?

          5. Janet, I ate my avatar

            Nope you can’t wear what you like. if I wear a short skirt here there is hell and harassment to pay. You adapt to respect the social norms. If I go to the supermarket I’m not going to go in my underwear.

          6. Nigel

            The society we lives in allows for freedom of religion and is in general against legal restrictions on what people can wear. I would rather of people respect and integrate with those principals rather than that of countries that impose such restrictions.

          7. Janet, I ate my avatar

            Come try it here. The facts are in the community I live in you will be treated like a whore and I’ll embaress my husband.I might not like it but I respect my neighbours sense of respect. You adapt to wear you live. You meet people half way. In Nepal.I covered my shoulders.. they are fierce sexy. You want to wear a short skirt I save em for when I’m home and in Dublin it’s acceptable non threatening behaviour.

          8. Nigel

            But the harassment isn’t legal and is a horrible thing we would be better off without. It’s certainly not something we should emulate and neither should we make legal concessions to that or any kind of harassment directed at people just because of what they wear. As for wearing your underwear while shopping, if you want to make the case that a restriction on under-dressing is sufficient precedent for a restriction on what I’m sure we both would regard as over-dressing, then go right ahead – I don’t think it’ll be a winner, though.

          9. Janet, I ate my avatar

            You’re right I’m just pretty frustrated that some people don’t live in reality.

          10. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            @Janet – of course but part of that alienation comes from people being afraid, drummed up by the media quite often. It really doesn’t bother me if I see a women walking around in a burqa or if I have to talk to someone wearing a burqa at work (though different for me as women, I can ask them to take it off and they generally always do). I like living in a city where everyone is different and brings their own culture to it, that includes hijab and burqa-wearing women.

            Intermarriage is not really a point is it? More liberal Muslims do marry outside Islam but if someone wants to marry someone of their faith or belief system of any kind (include in that which ever you will), that’s not a lack of integration.

            If we are going to talk integration, it needs to be sensible. Putting people in ghettos, reducing their employment and educational opportunities, creates division. Hearing talk about how all Muslims are terrorists creates division. All of these things the West has been doing for the last 10 years – that completely plays a role and we need to check that. Do we need to improve English among the wives of some migrants? Yes, great do that. But its not all one sided and lets not pretend it is.

          11. Janet, I ate my avatar

            You are absolutely right especially your last paragraph. At least Ireland can look at the mistakes made in mainland Europe and try not to replecate them. For future generations and integration people have to meet half way.

        2. Terri

          Don’t listen to Moyest, he’s the type of person who thinks all those innocent people who died were to blame for the attacks, not the lunatics who blew themselves up.

          1. Marty

            You can legally go to the supermarket in your underwear. The pressure you feel to not do so is societal. There is no law against it. Why should there be a law against wearing more clothes than usual? Laws on fashion are messed up.

      2. Painkiller

        With no shortage of disrespect, you are a feckin deluded nut and nothing in your comments say you’ve spent 5 mins actually thinking what immigration policy might look like.

        The new left is as hard, deaf and intolerant as the old right..quick to marginalise, always right and where challenged, the reflex action is to get personal and attack.

  5. DubLoony

    Next time there is a “dissident republican ” attack, I expect hundreds of thousands to do a not in my name protest.

  6. blueswannabe

    He refuses to accept that Ireland, a small European country, that uses the Euro, the same bloody currency as Belgium, that is in the EU, whose second/federal capital is in Belgium, whose people regularly visit Belgium would feel closer to Brussels than Ankara… ah come on lads, ffs.

          1. newsjustin

            I think it’s what you believe to be the truth behind blues wannabe’s perfectly reasonable statement. But that’s because you appear to see racism and racists in every comment that isn’t your own. You take any comment, even quite benign ones and claim it’s hate.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            No not any comment, just the hate based ones. See, you come out with hate based comments or narratives pretty regularly so what you’ve done there is project that onto everyone else. You can’t be deemed hate filled because that term is being used against “everyone” this dieting the charge and rendering it meaningless. All you’re doing here is trying to convince *yourself* you’re not a raging bigot. I don’t care enough about you to change your mind so have at it but if you say stupid and hate filled stuff in a public forum, someone else needs to deride it.

          3. Janet, I ate my avatar

            Most of the anger is in your comments. You are aggressive in the face of different point of you. it doesn’t make for an effective discussion. Passion is great but listen to others too.

          4. newsjustin

            Wait, so what was hate-filled about bluewannabe’s comment?

            Was it not hateful of you to take his/her reasonable comment and attach hateful motivations to it?

          5. MoyestWithExcitement

            I didn’t say it was hate filled. You dont strike me as the type that can understand nuance though soooo….um…..sure, that was hate filled of me. You and your pals aren’t. Hope you feel better now.

          6. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Most of the anger is in your comments.”

            Anger and hate are different emotions.

            “You are aggressive in the face of different point of you.”

            I have a little issue when bigotry is presented as ‘just a different point of view’. That just makes yourself feel better. Someone could come out and say black people are intellectually inferior and should be kept in zoos. Are you going to call that a “different point of view”?

          7. Janet, I ate my avatar

            Don’t think my black Muslim husband would appreciate it but enjoy the drama.

          8. Janet, I ate my avatar

            I’m used to dealing g with racists and extremists and while your heart is in the right place yes there are different points of view

          9. MoyestWithExcitement

            Sure but some “points of view”, like bigotry, don’t deserve any respect.

      1. ahjayzis

        Completely unfair. Many of us have been to Brussels, we have friends and family working there, in many ways it’s our federal capital.

        It is human nature to pay more attention to a trauma that happens to your sister or cousin than you do to a sob story you hear on Liveline, to a neighbours burglarly than you do to a hold up in a gas station in Tennessee. If it weren’t the case we’d all be in rag order from permanent grief.

        I actually really think you should retract that, it’s a disgraceful slur in reply to a common sense statement of fact.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          It isn’t a slur though. Most people in Ireland do not know anyone living in Brussels, let’s not pretend that has anything to do with what the vast majority are feeling. You were on the right track when you cited human nature. We identify more with people that look like us firstly and live like us second so we feel more connected to white Western people in Belgium than we do brown eastern people in Turkey. I’m not judging people for feeling that, I feel it myself but we should be honest about what we feel and why we feel it. It has nothing to do with having relatives in Belgium and everything to do with empathy for people that look like us.

          1. ahjayzis

            You absolutely are judging people, and condemning them in the strongest terms. Cultural affinity is one thing, but you’ve reduced everything to skin colour and then projected that onto others.

            I barely followed the San Bernardino attack, I admit. Mostly white victims. Nowhere near as close as the Paris attack, I have friends who live there. I followed the Paris attack nowhere near as closely as I followed the Tunis attack – because I used to live there myself. And they’re ‘brown.’

            If I ignore a story about a person in Lagos getting murdered in favour of a story of a man in Lucan getting mugged it is coincidental that one is probably black and white. If the Lucan victim was black and the Lagos white?

            A European city is closer and more similar to home than an American city, an Australian city or a Middle-Eastern city. And then there is the totally understandable ‘disaster fatigue’ that comes from reports of violence in certain regions being a daily occurence.

            But you’ve simplified everything down to complexion, shorn of any context, cultural or political to completely debase someone.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            “You absolutely are judging people, and condemning them in the strongest terms.“

            Well then I’m judging and condemning myself. I literally said I do this too.

            “you’ve reduced everything to skin colour and then projected that onto others.“

            No, not colour on its own. I also said people that live like us. I’ve given my opinion that all, or nearly all at least, of our conscious thoughts are extrapolations of base human emotions. Anti immigration attitudes can be traced back to the primal fear of things that didn’t look like you because when we lived in caves, things that didn’t look like you might kill you. It’s a very similar thing going on when Irish people feel more affinity with Belgians than they do with Turks. Nowhere have I said there’s anything wrong with that.

            “I barely followed the San Bernardino attack, I admit. Mostly white victims. Nowhere near as close as the Paris attack, I have friends who live there. I followed the Paris attack nowhere near as closely as I followed the Tunis attack – because I used to live there myself. And they’re ‘brown.’“

            I’m not talking about you specifically, I’m talking about people in general.

            “If I ignore a story about a person in Lagos getting murdered in favour of a story of a man in Lucan getting mugged it is coincidental that one is probably black and white. If the Lucan victim was black and the Lagos white?“

            Replace Lagos with New York and ask the same question. New York would be further away than Ankara I’d think or not far off. They’re Westerners though.

            “A European city is closer and more similar to home than an American city, an Australian city or a Middle-Eastern city.“

            Right. Similar. That’s my point. Geographical proximity has little to nothing to do with how the vast majority of us feel here.

            “But you’ve simplified everything down to complexion, shorn of any context, cultural or political to completely debase someone.“

            To debase us all.If we can truly understand our motivations, we can make better decisions. This all comes back to what Selim said about the Ankara bombings not getting the same outpourings of empathy that the Brussels ones are getting. I’m saying that he’s right to a point, it is completely understandable how he feels but it’s completely unavoidable human nature; it comes from a primal motivation. Human beings are more drawn and feel more affinity for people that look like and live like them. If he can understand that, you would hope he’d feel less bad about it. If we understand it, we can explain it to him more honestly and maybe make more of a conscious effort to be more welcoming if and when we see an opportunity or just look out for any black spots we may have. Maybe. I’d be a fan of Stephen Colbert. He had a black guy on recently who made the point that he saw no black people on Colbert’s staff. You could see on his face that a penny just dropped. Is Colbert racist? No. But why did that happen? Because we are subconsciously more drawn to people that look like us first and live like us second and so Alan from Syracuse had a better chance than D’Von from The Bronx. It’s an unfortunate fact of life but if we realise why it happens we can actually do something about it.

    1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

      At the moment, Turkey is performing a great role as a stopgap between the EU and a whole lot of mess. We should definitely be Istanbul and the IS bombing there – Ankara was Kurds and a whole other issue.

  7. human

    Brace yourself the apologists are coming…….

    5 points for “nothing to do with islam”
    10 points for “what about the crusades”
    20 points for “wayyyyyacist!!!”

    1. MoyestWithExcitement

      I’m always amused by this approach from idiots. They anticipate the responses to their stupidity and just tell others to expect them. That way, the responses are framed as clichés that the idiots don’t have to trouble their tiny minds thinking about.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          I’m not sure you know what ad hominem means but I’m glad you said that. It’s another example of standard idiot behaviour; when someone points out the stupidity in what you’re saying and you’re not smart enough to counter it or humble enough to consider that you’re wrong, act like a victim and tell yourself you’re being bullied. That way, you don’t have to thonk because, obviously, idiots don’t like to think.

          1. ahjayzis

            Ignore him Moyest.

            He’s just a small person pretending their fear and cowardice is actually strength and decisiveness.

            There’s nothing brave or pragmatic about blaming billions of innocents or shutting out desperate people fleeing a common enemy.

          2. human

            wow your even more rabid and unstable than usual today….. I ‘thonk’ you need to take your meds :)

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            And another fine example of idiot behaviour. When you’re being completely embarrassed and you can’t provide a coherent counter, make out that the person laughing at your stupidity is crazy so you don’t have to give weight to what they’re saying and think about how you might be wrong. You idiots all follow the same patterns. :)

          4. ahjayzis

            Just ignore him, Moyest, honestly.

            There’s no arguing with craven imbeciles who puff up their chests to announce, proudly and defiantly “I’M AFRAID OF EVERYTHING” ;o)

        2. MoyestWithExcitement

          Oh I know there’s no point but it’s fun. People like himself derive self esteem by belittling others in public. It’s extremely easy to belittle those people in turn because their motivation is terribly low self esteem. If you want to make people feel small so you can feel good about yourself, you deserve a slagging on the Internet. I enjoy giving those slaggings.

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            You don’t need to tell me to look at my beautiful face. I thank Allah for these unfathomable looks every day.

    1. C Sharp

      This, but they will keep doing it. He can be relied upon to equivocate and get people’s backs up.
      Borderline apologist. Screw that guy.

  8. Polaroid Fluid

    nobody cares about the instanbul attacks because the turks have been murdering Kurds with impunity for so long that they have absolutely zero cause for sympathy, a 3rd world country run by a fascist despot, they reap what they saw.

    1. C Sharp

      Some of us do care, but it is absolutely normal that people will relate more to a place and a people that they have closer ties with. Selim is talking poo, and feeding the bigots in the process.

  9. Polaroid Fluid

    also “Dr” Ali Selim is an Al Qaida apologist, he should not be given any airtime anywhere, I hope he is under strict surveillance as I can imagine him being very well supportive if his fellow jihadists.

  10. Smashmouth

    Dr Ali Selim: “Well I think we are very immune because the problem is happening in other countries”

    what a stupid comment

    1. Robert

      “in today’s world, where we live in a small village”

      and here was me thinking that “global village” was a 90s marketing term, or perhaps some kind of societal aspiration. Didn’t realise it was something you could invoke in real debates!

  11. Lordblessusandsaveus

    Condemning terrorism without examining the causes of if is a fools game and intellectually dishonest.

    1. Kolmo

      Remove religion from the equation, would IS have a consolidating and motivating ideology to kill and maim around the world and still regard it’s actions as reasonable? All religions can be interpreted by the easily-led to justify the worst crimes against others, religion is a tool by the powerful to shore up their own positions, it is more divisive than anything else on earth and is unnecessary, the sooner people free themselves from the manacles of piety, the better

      1. ahjayzis

        +1

        I’m cringing at the “Pray for Brussels” tweets.

        Because that’s exactly what this situation needs, more fooking prayer.

        1. Nice Jung Man

          You’re a pretty sick and twisted individual if you’re mocking people expressing their solidarity with the victims of terrorist violence in whatever fashion feels right to them

          1. Anne

            Are you the moral police.. He’s allowed cringe at what he likes.

            I see we’re ‘Nice Jung Man’ today too.. Will the other fella – ‘Same old Same Old’ be making an appearance on this thread also, to back you up, you freak of nature..

          2. Nice Jung Man

            Hello Anne

            I don’t know what you’re referring to.

            You do seem a bit deranged though so I will ignore you if that’s ok.

          3. Nice Jung Man

            oh yes now I get it

            you’re talking about that guy who sleeps with his sister right?

            I saw you were having a barney with him alright

            I guess the two of you are pretty well matched

          4. ahjayzis

            Yeah, it’s a clear indication I torture puppies, alright.

            When you’re murdered for God, I’m not showing solidarity by invoking God.
            Chatting to imaginary friends is what got us into this mess.

            (You embarassing cretin, you.)

          5. Nice Jung Man

            That’s funny Anne, you have a great imagination thinking that someone would invent a persona just to abuse you – delusions of grandeur much?

            I was taking the p*ss out of same old because he is a bit of a clown in fairness and he had posted earlier on the thread claiming I backed him up or something, which I didn’t like

          6. Same old same old

            Lol @ Anne

            What a weirdo

            If you’re going to impersonate me love at least take the care to spell my handle correctly

            Nice Jung Man is a good piss taker I gotta admit

          7. Nice Jung Man

            @ ahjaysiz

            you’re clearly a horrible misunderstood bewildered fellow.

            No-one asked ‘you’ to express solidarity with the victims of terrorism.

            You’d clearly be unable to anyway seeing as you appear to lack humanity.

            Rather you were called to account for your miserable, denunciation of simple folks expressing their condolences in their own personal fashion.

            Try speaking to the point instead of waffling about yourself – no-one cares.

          8. ahjayzis

            Bless you, Jung/Same Old – we all know you try your best, really we do.

            Hope you’re doing okay, pet. And have a lovely evening :o)

          9. Same old same old

            Don’t know why you’re addressing me Ahjaysiz as I’ve stayed out of this thread. I think yer wan Anne was posting as an impersonation of me above though. What’s the story with you?

      2. MoyestWithExcitement

        If you took out ‘Muslim’, it’d probably be replaced by ‘Arabic’. This terrorism we see now has almost nothing to do with theology. It has everything to do with perceived hate for your identity.

        1. ahjayzis

          Without the faith component, would any of them become suicide bombers though?

          Only the lies of a holy book can drive so many people to that.

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            Probably not but I don’t think that’s an important factor. They’d just think of a different way of killing folks. Not to sound facetious but I don’t think the virgin in heaven thing is the reason most would make the decision to kill in the first place. They are primarily drawn in because they think The West hates Muslims and thus it hates *them*, so they want to react with violence. Once you have them in your terrorist group, it’s *then* you can convince them to kill themselves with a reward of virgins but the point is they already have enough hate in them to kill without the holy book.

          2. ahjayzis

            It’s not the virgin, but the idea that you’re not throwing your life away, you’re graduating with full marks to a new and better life. That’s the greatest lie ever told, used for millennia by the powerful to coax the powerless and desperate into giving them their one and only life.

            I do take your point. Secular Arab nationalism was crushed by imperial power propping up dictators, islamism was the fallback. Both come from a lack of real self determination.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            “It’s not the virgin, but the idea that you’re not throwing your life away, you’re graduating with full marks to a new and better life. That’s the greatest lie ever told,”

            No doubt but that’s why they decide to kill by suicide. Without that influence, they could just use a gun or plant a bomb and walk away like the ‘Ra.

            “Secular Arab nationalism was crushed by imperial power propping up dictators, islamism was the fallback. Both come from a lack of real self determination.”

            Precisely. It’s all about identity. Most things are. They’re not killing people for not believing that Mohammed is the prophet any more than the UVF killed people for eating wafers during mass. I just wish more people would realise that.

  12. Nice Jung Man

    I felt Dr Selim was given a very easy time on Vincent Browne last night but I had to admit he made a number of extremely valid points.

    As for the nonsense above about wearing the burkas ….

  13. nellyb

    Dr. Selim:
    “So it gives muslims the sense that there is a duality, double standard, a high level of hypocrisy that we need to, we need to target. People are talking about integration, in fact in today’s time, in terms of globalisation, we have to talk about developing what can be classified as common values, common…””

    Nellyb on ICC’s Girls-only camp in Louth ( tinyurl.com/jco9kur )
    Mr.Selim gives me the sense that there is a duality, double standard, a high level of hypocrisy that we need to, we need to target. People are talking about integration, in fact in today’s time, in terms of globalisation, we have to talk about developing what can be classified as common values, common…

    1. panga panga

      I don’t trust Selim one bit
      too strident and a misogynist
      talks integration but lives a separatist lifestyle
      met him on more than one occasion

      1. panga panga

        he held his book launch in Trinity on 9/11….
        said the date was coincidental
        Taurum Stercore

  14. classter

    My perception is that typcially Muslims living in Ireland are well integrated, certainly relative to other European countries such as Belgium or France.

    We should be extremely careful in how we respond to these atrocities so that we do not allow the likes of ISIS to succeed in driving a wedge between Irish Muslims & everyone else.

  15. rotide

    Dr Selim seems to think all the violence perpetrated on muslims in syria is western?

    Muslims kill a lot more muslims than the west does.

    1. MoyestWithExcitement

      No, he doesn’t think that. He thinks, rightly, that western violence against Muslims contributes to Muslims committing acts of violence against the west.

  16. ReproBertie

    I think we could do with setting up some large camps. We can move people into these camps and spend time explaining to them that fairy tales are for children and it’s time to put away their imaginary friends and fantasies about a life after this one. Then we can explain the importance of spending our brief lives looking out for each other and helping each other out rather than focussing on differences and spreading distrust and hate. When that’s done we can release them back into society to spread the message while we move more people into the camps to start the process all over again.

    We can start with the priests, bishops, ministers, nuns, brothers, imams, rabbis, clerics and all other conmen and women who make their living selling the fantasy.

    1. Anomanomanom

      Or just round up the evil hate filled bastards that openly preach bile and hang cut and quarter them.

    2. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

      People are a**holes, they will just find something else to replace it, science, an unhealthy interest in early 90s sitcoms, whatever. Then it will be the geneticists vs the psychologists, the Friends Army vs the Buffy Slayers.

      GO SLAYERS!!!!

      People can have their religion but it’s yours. It’s not mine so don’t tell me what to do.

  17. Owen O'F

    Ever since Selim threatened to invoke Ireland’s blasphemy laws should newspapers here reprint an ‘offensive’ Charlie Hebdo cartoon, I lost all interest in listening to what he might have to say. A thin end of the wedge trying to row back on Western secularism.

  18. Painkiller

    Some of the hysterical PC social justice friends on here could do with some constructive reading on demographics before they go attacking people.

    1. A Muslim is a person who follows Islam, a religious denomination – which in turn feed a wider cultural system.
    2. Cultural differences and tolerance is what this about, not race.

    I suppose monoculture is your easy answer as always. Avoidance and ignorance over understanding and appreciation. After all, cultural heritage is for the enemy – the privileged white, middle class man.

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