Theresa May
I was disappointed to see The Irish Times describe Theresa May as a “vicar’s daughter” in the headline “Tough and diligent vicar’s daughter with moral bent”. I have often seen Margaret Thatcher described as a “grocer’s daughter”. It seems female political leaders are always someone’s daughter. Never, however, have I seen David Cameron described as a “stockbroker’s son” or Tony Blair as a “barrister’s son”.
Grace Cuddihy,
Moscow.
Theresa May – ‘vicar’s daughter’ (Irish Times letters page)
Pic: The Boston Globe
Sponsored Link
”Cruddihy”
Mmf
What does ‘mmf’ mean?
male make female, bisex orgy
*male male female
What is she babbling, people often reference parents occupation in politics when of note, male or female- GW bush, Trump etc
Isn’t it just that it’s interesting she’s a Vicar’s daughter? I think it is. Not at all interesting that Cameron was a stockbroker’s son … with Thatcher it spoke to her modest origins. I remember similar things of “Honest John” Major.
Gordon Brown’s father was a minister in the Scottish Church & this is very often reference when discussing him
The vicar/minister thing is often used to explain certain traits.
‘Tis the same with Merkel.
+1
John Major was often pilloried for having run away from the circus to be an accountant. An obvious reference to his parents being carnie folk…
fair point
I have to agree
it is
Conveniently skipping over Gordon Brown.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1554039/The-making-of-Gordon-Brown.html
“The next prime minister is always referred to as a ‘son of the manse’, but what was his Scottish upbringing really like?”
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12761025.To_the_manse_born/
“To the Manse born”
Yes but Gordo was different because he was a Scot – also see any discussion of Gove where they repeatedly discuss his adoption. But still not to the same extent as the lady politicians.
Guess it something about the “other” innit and a conservative press trying to work out and justify people’s occupation of space.
So not sexism then.
“But still not to the same extent as the lady politicians.”
As you were
That is a very subjective verdict, DP.
It is clear the original letter-writer is wrong.
Its not really
‘Never, however, have I seen David Cameron described as a “stockbroker’s son”’
This is clearly, patently false. Almost everybody reading this thread knows that his father was a stockbroker.
Now, whether it is done more often in the case of female politicians than male politicians (as you claim) is a different matter. It is difficult to know how you would demonstrate this…
This is ridiculous. She’s new-ish to the ‘limelight’ and as a result writers are going to fill in the blanks as they would with anyone, male or female, black white or purple.
You’re tilting at windmills that aren’t there.
She isn’t new.
I’m sorry you interpreted my sociological wonderings about political identity and representation as windmills. Specsavers?
She is new to a large portion of Irish people that don’t pay huge attention to the british political landscape.
Hence the profile piece. Hence mentioning her background.
Fair dues but my comment still stands in terms of wider discussion of politicians.
She is still actually fairly ‘new’ in that she is remarkably low profile for somebody who has become PM.
The media has been a bit stunned by it all & have already run out of insights to share about her – ’cause they have so little.
We know that she is dogged, adept at in-fighting, once dressed down the police unions, once called the Tories the ‘Nasty Party’,has a fairly scant regard fro the privacy of citizens, had a vicar father, was educated in a comprehensive school & her long-term husband (whom she met in Oxford) works in the City. And that’s about it.
We don’t really know whether she really believes this compassionate On-Nation Tory stuff or not. We don’t know how she really feels about the EU or the single market. Or climate change. Or foreign policy – is she an interventionist or a dove? We have a much better idea what the views and thinking are of much of her cabinet than we do of her herself.
You don’t add “that aren’t there” to that phrase, as the expression is based on there being actual windmills there, and not the monstrous enemies they are perceived to be.
I head David Cameron described this morning as a Stockbrokers son.
You also completely miss my point. Yes, they would have as they reflect on his time as a politician, not in everyday discussion.
May is just starting today as PM. It’s not everyday discussion.
Speaking of missing the point….
It’s funny how respondents to every comment you make miss the point. You are deeply misunderstood.
Every comment? Meow!
Maybe we just need more sociology in schools or maybe a little more pondering the world?
GET SOME SOCIOLOGY INTO YOU AND START MESSING ABOUT
Cameron was/is constantly called out as being from privilege and wealth. That’s how the ‘rich boy’ side of the ‘ordinary upbringing’ coin was angled. It’s the exact same thing. Stop seeing sexism everywhere FFS.
just recently his late father’s stockbroking career and inheritance strategies came under huge scrutiny.plus Cameron has always been described as the son of a wealthy stockbroker
This seems more like a class thing. When they start talking about her clothes and appearance, that’ll be the sexism.
True but she does boast about her massive collection of crazy shoes.maybe she should take a leaf out of Angela’s book and adopt a suit like uniform ?
Well collecting crazy shoes is better than fornicating with a pig’s head any day. Or so I’ve heard.
The letter writer made it about sexism.
John Major was often described as the son of a trapeze artist.
…never understood that…if it had been a chartered accountant it would have explained a lot…
Oh yeah. Forgot that. So it’s most PMs then.
Boris Johnson’s was repeatedly spoken about in reference to his father during the pre-brexit discussion.
Bertie Ahern is oft referred as a son of a bitch
…ha!
hahaha
LOL!!!
So stop buying The Irish Times then.
Oh please….. *eye roll*
Cameron’s fathers occupation gets mentioned a fair bit. Majors was constantly – mainly because it was so odd.
You google “Tony Blair Barrister’s son” and you pretty quickly find the following
http://www.encyclopedia.com/article-1G2-3436300037/blair-tony.html
If Blair or Cameron’s da was a miner or a barman then we would never have heard the end of it.
I bet that in her first week she blows the entire UK budget on crazy shoes. Women!
Should have called her an Evil tory.
I think the vicar deserves a mention considering he self impregnated and gave birth.
Yeah. Gordon Brown was routinely referred to as a “son of the manse”.
That’s probaby because it’s a nice turn of phrase. “Vicar’s daughter” has a similar tone to it. And “grocer’s daughter” was, presumably to emphasise working class/small business background.
If Blair or Cameron’s father had been a butcher or a coal merchant from Hartlepool that would have been used to describe them.
No romance in “barrister” or “banker”.
there’s only one factoid I need to know about Thatcher….that she was a proper c _ _ t
(the A1 variety where you make the effort to pronounce the c really hard like a K)
Less talk of her dad and more talk of her wanting to repeal the human rights act, sending mobile ads around the country telling immigrants to go home, how she thinks immigration makes it “impossible to build a cohesive society.”
To be honest, a lot of politicians overly and constantly allude to their parents in their speeches so it’s possible this is her own quote. In the UK particularly, humble backgrounds vs high achievements create role model figures which they use to try and justify their oppressive class structure.
G’luck to her anyhow. Can’t stand the Tories but at least someone had the guts to tackle Article 50. Boris the Coward should be swiftly eliminated now from her government.
Sadiq ” I’m the son of a bus driver ” Khan .
Which was a central point of his campaign.
Its letters like this that make people snigger at feminism and right on thinking thereby negating the serious issues that feminism right on thinking address. Especially ones that begin with “I was disappointed…”
While this might not be sexism, you can’t blame someone who lives with sexism every day misinterpreting something as sexism once in a while.
Why can’t I? How do you know its once in a while? How do you know she lives with sexism very day?Seriously? How do you know these things?
Cause I said so.
I just do.
I just do.
Yes.
I just do.
Moyest- The Paddy Manning of BS
Trollny – The nobody of nothing.
No. Sexism makes people snigger at feminism. Letters like this make people snigger at letters like this.
Nope. Sexism is saying things like all men are rapists. Letters like this expose some feminists for the loopers they are, and hence, people snigger at feminism. Its quite simple and tragic really.
Saying feminists say things like all men are rapists expose people who snigger at feminism for the tragic, simple loopers they are.
G’wan Sir Nigel. Knighting like a boss! Oopps.. Like a mistress.
Tony the cowboy rides out of the argument and into the sunset. Like a boosh.
What argument?
Don’t go there Tony, it’s a cyclical loop of made up feminist nonsense, just don’t go there :)
Speaking of loops of nonsense…
‘What argument?’
Exactly.
In fairness, Letters like this makes people snigger at some “feminists” whose outrage radar is tuned at to 11.
Letters like this play into the hands of people who are just dying to snigger at SJW’s for their ability to see insult everywhere.
Like you two. That was either a stunning lack of self awareness on your part or your whole act is a pish take and I’ve misjudged you. Hmmmm.
Unfortunately that’s what happens when you second guess yourself Nigel. You tie yourself up in knots. You should try saying what you actually think sometime, and not what you think would look good to say. That way at least you will remember what you say and why. It’s just too difficult trying to be continuously perfect. And draining I’d say.
Did you just accuse yourself of being too lazy to think things through properly?
No Im pointing out to you the dangers of being incongruent. You will end up not knowing who you are and your own inner core of belief won’t have developed sufficiently to sustain you. Never mind what people think of you, just go with your own opinions. It will stand to you in the long run.
And then will the lambs stop screaming, Doctor Lecter?
Just try being yourself. For one day. You might surprise yourself. You will definitely surprise others. the pretence cannot last and you know it.
Tony’s working through some issues.
https://youtu.be/FyM8NVl4yBY
At least they are my own issues :-). You on the other hand try and see which issue is most popular today, read the correct thinking on it, and then try and sort it out for everyone else. (Thats the SJW bit). The thing is Nigel, these issues will pass, and will be replaced by other more fashionable ones, but you won’t have developed a Self to cope with the emptiness that remains. So please, try and ask yourself- What do I actually think, not what would look good to think. Good man. It will feel strange at first, and then you will feel the real Nigel emerge and Im sure you will be beautiful in your own special way.
You’re really committed to this tactic of indulging in unsolicited malicious amateur psycho-analysis in a half-assed effort to undermine someone you are incapable of holding up your end of a debate with, aren’t you? It’s… revolting behaviour, really. I hope you don’t pull this in real life.
Ah, is it getting to you? Like all those people you call homophobic, transphobic, mysoginist, sexist misandrist etc? It must get to them too when you diagnose and condemn them in the name of justice.
Like I said, when you actually develop a self of your own, and stop borrowing from Facebook, you will have the resilience which brings compassion rather than weakness which brings judgement. You won’t feel the need to win all the time, you won’t feel the need to be superior, your meaning will not come from hurting others. It will come from inside. It will be flawed, but it will be real. Good luck.
Trollny has a really acute inferiority complex, it seems.
‘Ah, is it getting to you?’
Oh wow. I really got to you didn’t I? And now you need to get to me? Wouldn’t it have been easier to just argue the point? Or do you genuinely think this is how that works? I feel like I’ve accidentally tricked you into humiliating yourself with all this. I’m kinda sorry? I’ll stop inadvertently needling you now. Have the last word if you like.
I suppose you could say it’s ammunition for that sort of thing, but anti-feminist types are perfectly prepared to completely make up their own ammunition, so as an unforced error it’s quite trivial. Theresa May will almost certainly be treated in a sexist fashion, unless we’re all in for a pleasant surprise, it’s just this isn’t an example of it.
Actually yeah, thats pretty spot on.
It’s worrying when I agree with you Nigel and thats a couple of times this week.
My fedora is slipping :(
Teresa May will be seen as a woman, because she is a woman. And although people judge men with sexist terms like “white male privilege”, “patriarchy” “old boys club” etc, her gender will certainly be referenced, but not necessarily in a sexist way. However, as Leadsom proved, some of her harshest sexist critics will be other women.
rotide: strange days indeed.
Tony: You’re hardly likely to see the first two not-particularly-sexist terms on the front pages of major national newspapers (lumping the third one in seems weird even for an anti-feminist) but nobody would be surprised to see comments about her appearance or dress or marital status or whatever she’s a mother or not on a front page. And of course women will criticise her, because there are plenty of policy grounds for other women to criticise her on.
Nigel, I live and work in the real world with actual women. Most of them agree that their harshest critics are other women. Its called being bitchy. This is why Madeleine Albright designated a special place in hell for them. It is natural for many women to comment on what other women wear, thats why there is a whole industry dedicated to it. Im sure Teresa has factored this in and is well ready for it, she seems to be made of stern stuff. I think you will find that she will advance the cause of women in many more ways than a Labour counterpart would.
Since I don’t think women send other women rape or death threats just because they’re women as a matter of course, I doubt they’re women’s harshest critics. Given May’s policies thus far I doubt many women will see her as advancing any cause other than harsh corporate Toryism.
Her mere appointment and the grace and grit with which she has achieved it is a powerful signal to women. And taking the extreme and rare version of criticism as an example is useful to make a point, but to ignore the everyday undermining criticism to which women are subjected to by other women seems to imply it is not important.. It is the fact that these stem from “normal” women that makes them so undermining. Rape threats come from obvious mysoginist nutters and most sensible women treat them as such.
“….but nobody would be surprised to see comments about her appearance or dress or marital status or whatever she’s a mother or not on a front page”
Nor would anyone, with their head not in the clouds, be surprised if it were a man being commented on in that fashion either. Welcome to equality.
Tony: ‘obvious misogynist nutters,’ of which there seem to be plenty, are still, y’know, harsher critics of women than other women, by definition. Extreme, yes, Rare? I wish. And perhaps that’s a function of where you work? I’ve worked in a number of majority-female work environments and didn’t encounter it that often. And men can be pretty vicious about each other, too, when it comes down to it. Yeesh.
As for Theresa May, she’s been handed a poisoned chalice and no mistake. It’s a bit like Obama taking office after the crash and post-Iraq. Make a mess, have a woman or minority clean it up.Thing is, for all his failings, I believe in Obama’s good intentions. Going by Theresa May’s record, not so much. It’s about to get a lot harder to be poor in England.
Clampers: ‘Is David Cameron getting bikini ready just in time for the next important round of intentional peace negotiations? Three pages of photos and analysis inside!’
Nigel… I know it’s hard young lad, but stick to reality, and not imaginary offences please. You really do sound like a flakey SJW when you do that, please stop.
Cool story Clamps.
Great to Teresa May is planning to appoint women to the Cabinet. Im sure women will still btich about her, but you’ll have that.
Tony: permanently unclear on the concept.
What concept? Is it something you’re developing? Like a conceptual thought? Or a project? Or a piece of conceptual art?
Aren’t you delighted about Teresa’s appointments though? No?
Slow on the uptake that there even is a concept.
What are you on about Nigel? Are you not delighted about the appointments? Or what is wrong with you? Do you think she shouldn’t appoint women? Why not?
You may find yourself
Wondering what you’re talking about
You may find yourself
With a hard right conservative Prime Minister
You may ask yourself
My God! Is Nigel happy about this?
https://youtu.be/I1wg1DNHbNU
Wow. She is a woman about to appoint women and all you can do is criticise her. No wonder so few women try for senior positions when this is the way they are treated by men. Don will not be happy.
Oh, man, you were building to that, weren’t you? So thoroughly invested in getting there nothing was going to stop you. Hope it was worth it.
Surrendering is always the first step. Be more careful with your hate speech and carry on.
My folks ran a public house for a short period, to quell a burning ambition and take career breaks. The posh folk in my UK workplace thought it absolutely friggin hilarious that I was a (their words) ‘Publican’s Daughter’, what being a beer-swilling Paddy an all. What japes.
The very first line of this story mentions he’s the son of a stockbroker…
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jul/13/he-was-the-future-once-david-camerons-political-life-in-pictures
Right so I actually read the article and it turns out that not only was it written by a woman but the reason for the headline is because of the comparison she draws with Brown, also a child of a religious minister.
Where’s clampers when you need him to point out the idiocy of people like this
What does it being written by a woman have to do with anything? You;re not saying that women can’t be be sexist are you?
Clampers is in a tailspin of feminazi hate. He will reply to your comment in a clear and logical fashion in March 2019.
Your words Don, not mine.
Equality first and always.
Go have a cry about Ghostbusters or something
You really are more obsessed with that film than nearly every fedora wearing slapped orse out there. They’ve all moved onto the latest kotaku scandal, you should move along too.
There’s trouble brewing on Dan’s column, go girl power, go!
Its a lazy metaphor, like fedoras but Im happy with it thanks.
I’ll give it pass thanks – I’m just visiting but you go ahead
I wonder what Grace’s dad did for a living.
Thanks Grace,
Its always important to know where posters are currently residing.
As an expat in Moscow, you must be special, sure you don’t want to tell us the
whole jackanory of how you came to be there and express a ‘forest for the trees’ view
on the state of Ireland and or feminist bugbears.
Regards
Joe Duffy.
“Tough and diligent vicar’s daughter with moral bent”
She”s tough but moral and this comes from her religious background.
“I have often seen Margaret Thatcher described as a “grocer’s daughter”.”
She’s done exceedingly well to rise past the Bullington club types and the inbred toffs to lead the conservative party and Britiain considering her humble beginnings.
Yeah lets not get sexist or insulting, until see how she gets on.
Then, the British press will be doing that if she slips up.
Sexism in irish media is something that baffles me daily.
I’m new to Ireland, might I add. It feels like I got back to the 50’s at times.
let the ad-hominem come
There may well be sexism in Irish media.
This is absolutely not a case of it though.