Traditional Route

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Yesterday.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) block members of the Orange Order from returning up Woodvale Road towards the Nationalist Ardoyne after the July 12 parades in Belfast.

Sam Boal/Rollingnews

Yesterday: Some People Just Want To Watch The World Burn

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65 thoughts on “Traditional Route

  1. Rugbyfan

    anyone who harbours a wish for a unified Ireland take a look at this and ask do you really want it?

    1. some old queen

      If Brexit and the subsequent breakup of the UK happens then so will Irish unification. That much is pretty certain. How it pans out afterwards is anyone’s guess.

      I sometimes wonder if the civil rights movement had to have continued without the troubles, would people be so obsessed with the past now? We will never know.

      1. Owen

        No, it’s not certain. Why would NI, standing alone, decide to join Ireland? Why can’t NI, like Scotland, be its own nation?

        1. Yeah, Ok

          It needs a teat to suckle on. Whether ours can sustain the big hungry brat is a different story.

        2. MoyestWithExcitement

          40% odd work for the British state. They are governed by religious fundamentalists and political idealists. They’d be fupped on their own.

          1. kirkbadaz

            Sounds like the free state in 1922… They might be better off staying on John Bulls tit.

        3. some old queen

          Because it simply could not sustain itself. Now maybe it will be some sort of joint arrangement in the interim but the long term objective will be self rule, whiter that be as part of a united Ireland or some sort of independent state. Who knows.

          In the meantime we have one set who want to march where they are not wanted and the other who bend over backwards to be offended.

          1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

            I think you will find it is the same side that “want to march where they are not wanted” and “who bend over backwards to be offended.”

      2. The People's Hero

        “Irish unification” will never, ever ever happen. Did I say never? It will never happen. Not by peaceful or notionally democratic measures and certainly not by violence. It’s too fractious. Self determination is their only way forward as has been ours.

        1. classter

          ‘Twill happen.

          Pretending there is some simple us & them is not true & never has been.

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            I dunno, tell that to the lads who burn our flags and riot over a flag on city hall and regularly vote DUP as the largest party. The Brexit result up there was a little encouraging I guess but we’re still a long way away from it. Still too much relative financial hardship amd resulting nationalism.

          2. The People's Hero

            Never, ever… ever…. Can’t ever…. The sooner the diehards realise this, a better future for both countries on this island can be had…

          3. classter

            It’ll take time & it won’t be simple.

            Remember that many of the now-staunch unionist communities were once hot-beds of the United Irishmen and that the Orangemen originally fought the foundation of the United Kingdom (admittedly for slightly different reasons).

            The best thing we can do is to run a mature, inclusive, economically-successful state. The Dev years – Catholic triumphalism & economic war – hardened partition.

          4. classter

            People’s Hero, I think you over-simplify the issue.

            It is not all about ‘die-hards’ or at least, not a small proportion of extremists.

            The actual level of threat to the UK as a political entity does not influence this behaviour.

          5. MoyestWithExcitement

            They did harden it but what’s done is done. The problem here is that a border poll is an emotional argument, not a rational one. If it were at all possible that you could guarantee each unionist a significant increase in quality of life in a UI, I’m confident most would still reject it. It’s about their identity. I remember Sammy somethimgorother (moustached fella caught naked somewhere years ago) responding to someone asking if he were Irish with ‘No, I’m British.’ Until such a time most of them think themselves British *and* Irish, it’s not going to happen. It’s not about economics or rationale.

          6. classter

            ‘What’s done is done’ is never true. We have not reached the end of history.

            Identities change over time & as I mentioned above the Ulster working-class/lower-middle-class identity has actually been rather fluid over a longer time frame.

          7. MoyestWithExcitement

            “We have not reached the end of history.”

            No, but we have reached a point where people up north regard themselves as British and foreign to Irish people south of the border. That could change alright but my point was that it won’t be happening for a long long time.

  2. B Hewson

    The ironic thing is they are both more like each other than anyone else on these islands.

    1. some old queen

      That is where it get’s really weird. Everyone looks the same, talks the same, likes the same things and yet, there is this huge division under the surface.

    2. Yeah, Ok

      The scum element of both sides are identical alright. Especially compared to the ordinary unionists and nationalists in NI who are quite different to each other yet happily live side by side.
      I do think the loyalist scum section is much more problematic than the republican side these days though.

      1. DubLoony

        Ignoring the insults for a sec but there is a huge problem with young undereducated boys in many of those areas. It was pointed out to me that in nationalist areas, assuming mass goign still a thing, Catholic church is interantional, GAA players will mix with kids of other areas & counties, dancers will take part in competitions, and they will go to school / college. In short, they mix around a bit. It may be a very particular narrow set but they actually get out of their immediate area more.

        As for the brthern. If they are chruch goers, a lot of denominations have a local preacher, sport not such a big thing, no dancing and definatley not a culture of school/college. They used to have heavy industry but that is long gone. Nothing has filled that cultural void. So they are stuck in a very insular world.
        No-one give a damn about them and they know it. Growing up with that, it has to leave a scar

          1. classter

            Well that is part of the point. The Lodge is a huge cultural & social resource (whatever your views on their less savoury aspects).

            Young working-class Protestant children face significantly worse outcomes than young working-class Catholic children.

            The people of Britain proper make it clear, on any chance they get, that they don’t care about their Irish offshoot.

    1. MoyestWithExcitement

      Rodgers ‘There was no embarrassment’. I hope you’ll be replacing that Keegan picture on your mantle with Brendan’s gobshitey face.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          Did I not send you a link to a parody Keegan account on twitter after you professed some fandom for the chap?

          1. Bertie Blenkinsop

            I DO like Kevin, as a footballer.
            He was a brilliant player for Liverpool and twice European Footballer of the year, lest we forget.
            However, I adore Kenny in every way.

          2. italia'90

            “However, I adore Kenny in every way.”
            We know that Bertie.
            But what about Howlin and Martin?
            Are you not so fond of them?
            ;)

  3. Daveq

    This fascinates me. Where in the western world does one side of the community celebrate its victory over the other side in such a bombastic manner?

    1. Daveq

      That should have read “Where else in the western worlds does one side of the community celebrate its victory over the other side in such a bombastic manner?

        1. Daveq

          Really? Does Spain have it’s own version of the Orange Order that celebrates its victory over its neighbours? Who are they? Tell me more?

          1. newsjustin

            The Moors. Lots of festivals in Spain, especially southern Spain celebrate the expulsion of the Moors (in 1492?). Spain’s patron saint is St James. Sometimes now as St James the Moor Slayer.

          2. Deluded

            I did not know that, newsjustin.
            I do know they have a parade down the centre of Barcelona every year in honour of Franco which seems, what’s the expression, tone-deaf?

          3. Deluded

            Ah, it seems that’s history; now it’s just a raggle-tag of skinheads, nothing like the drama in Northern Ireland.

      1. Daveq

        Thanks for that. But a crucial difference here is that the Moor community don’t still live next door to the Spaniards. They were expelled 500 odds years agoas you pointed out. The brethren up north still celebrate their victory over the people who still live beside them.
        As for Glasgow that’s the same conflict only with Scottish accents – a sort of Norn Iron lite.
        My question still stands is there anywhere else in the western world where one community still celebrates its victory over its neighbouring community. One it still lives next to. I can’t think of any.

        1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

          Australia celebrates Australia Day, January 26th, when Captain Cook landed in Botany Bay. This wasn’t a battle but it does mark the start of the end of Aboriginal control of their own land. It is commonly referred to as “Invasion Day”. The National holiday is similar to July 12th.

  4. AdvertisingOnPoliceCars

    Just give them all English football jerseys so they cant tell each other apart.

  5. Rugbyfan

    some of the flag burning young fellas have the same uniform as you would see on the bike stealing boyos you see around Dublin. Who dictates this ‘fashion’? Is there a chief scrote out there tweeting what to wear?

    1. Donger

      It’s all Instagram and hashtags these days. #ootd #instaskang #flegfest #iwokeuplikethis

  6. Fully Keen

    Any European grants available for separating the north physically from the republic?

    I’m sure it’s possible.

    1. Donger

      If they could pull of the chunnell 25 years ago surely they could manage chopping off norn iron now. Let them march and fly flegs to their hearts content. If they could cut us off from the regional BBC ni news too that’d be great. Fat angry men in ill fitting suits complaining about the placement of flegs

      1. Kolmo

        The thing is, the loud, permanently apoplectic types are a decreasing minority in the North, they are existentially crappin their pants, that explains the increasingly disney-like expressions of their ‘Brotoshness!’ to the world. It’s based almost entirely on goading others.

      2. Charley

        You are aware that only Antrim and Down have loyalist majorities, the other four counties are predominately Catholic.

  7. Mulder

    Is it true they be thinking about building a bridge between the North and Scotland, because they could not build one between the North and Republic.
    Some Traditions never stop.

  8. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    OK, this might be twaddle but, has anyone considered a Scotland-Ireland federation? Our friend up North could continue to have their own fiefdom but as part of a federation with Scotland and the 26 counties. It would help Scotland stay in the EU, would keep the nutters up north happy, etc. The EU would have to provide lots of $$ to keep the 40% in jobs. I realise it is extremely unlikely and can see a lot of issues, just throwing it out there.

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