Oh Say, Can’t You See?

at

hillary-911

Hillary Clinton leaving yesterday’s 9/11 tribute in New York

An ailing candidate and the mainstream media in denial.

Thud.

Emmy award-winning investigative journalist Sharyl Attkisson writes:

I watched the video of Hillary Clinton as she faltered, slumped and then apparently got dragged into her van, and I felt awful. Public officials put themselves in the public eye, but to have every step and misstep analysed the way we do today seems to be a no-win situation.

I wouldn’t want someone videotaping me when I had a migraine headache or – as I did several times in my 20’s working in Florida–became faint and dehydrated. I join with many Americans who wish Clinton the best, and a speedy recovery from what her doctors say is a case of pneumonia and dehydration.

But the incident raises questions about the news media’s coverage surrounding Clinton’s health.

Rather than reporting the facts, many in the media have taken it upon themselves to shout down the questions and to controversialise those asking them.

On August 21, after Donald Trump adviser Rudolph Giuliani suggested people research Clinton’s medical state on Google, a New York Times tech columnist [Farhad Manjoo] retorted in a tweet:

“Google should fix this. It shouldn’t give quarter to conspiracy theorists.”

In other words, the columnist was advocating that a conspiracy be committed to stop people from researching Clinton’s health, which he labeled a conspiracy.

Many others in the media also chimed in using the “conspiracy theory” moniker. It’s designed to convince the public to tune out the discussion, in much the same way as other common astroturf terms such as “debunked,” “bonkers,” “tin-foil hat,” “shoddy,” “discredited,” “quack,” “bogus,” “denier,” and “crank.”

Left-wing apparatus Vox chimed in with an article titled: “The bonkers conspiracy theory about Hillary Clinton’s health.”

The pro-Hillary Clinton smear machine, Media Matters, chided NBC News for “mainstreaming conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton’s health.”

Vice picked up the theme writing, “How conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton’s health went mainstream.”

CNN published an article “Debunking conspiracy theories” about her health. CNN media critic Brian Stelter urged the media: “Do Not Give Oxygen To ‘Conspiracy Theories’ That Hillary Clinton Is ‘Secretly Ill’.”

HuffPost wrote, “Let’s call the conspiracy theories about Clinton’s health what they are…”

ThinkProgress joined in with, “Trump campaign embraces conspiracy theory…”

From MSNBC: “Trump, allies push conspiracy theory about Clinton’s health.” NPR: “Trump adds fuel to conspiracy theory about Clinton’s health.”

You get the idea. Everybody’s on the same page.

In fact, questions about Clinton’s health, whether grounded or far-fetched, had little to do with supposed conspiracies.

Yesterday, a Washington Post reporter [Chris Cillizza] acknowledged that he, too, had recently argued the discussion was “the stuff of conspiracy theorists.”

But now, in the face of the obvious, he agrees there are legitimate concerns.

“Coughing, I wrote, is simply not evidence enough of any sort of major illness that Clinton is assumed to be hiding. Neither, of course, is feeling “overheated.” But those two things happening within six days of each other to a candidate who is 68 years old makes talk of Clinton’s health no longer just the stuff of conspiracy theorists.”

In other words, all this was “the stuff of conspiracy theorists” until the reporters who appear to have been proven wrong, decided it was not.

It’s almost as if we in the media take an editorial position with no factual basis, dare critics to prove us wrong, and then when events do, we modify our stance.

That’s not what the news is supposed to do. Reporters are, ideally, supposed to bring facts to light.

If we relegate our role to one of spinning and trying to convince the public of our position; then end up bringing up the rear after-the-fact, what good are we?

The News Media’s Miscalculation on Hillary’s Health (Sharyl Attkisson)

Previously: It’s Criminal What We Don’t Know

Pic: Getty

Meanwhile…

Hmmm.

156 thoughts on “Oh Say, Can’t You See?

  1. Tony

    Hilary needs to explain exactly what is going on. POTUS can’t be sick. Too many nurses and epipens following her around. And the pneumonia things just is plain false.

    1. The Real Jane

      Also, I hear she has a, well, let’s just say she’s not fully equipped with all the male, Trump like externalities. That’s her real health problem.

      1. Tony

        Of course. you are so right. This is a patriarchal gender issue, not a health one. Great to see you using her health to emmm… get attention?

      2. Anomanomanom

        And the fact that she is clearly sick. This little piece only mentions two instances, fairly close in time,.but over the last few months there have been loads of instances. And im not Hilary bashing, I hope she wins.

      3. Rowsdower

        Yes, its sexism to suggest the woman who had to be dragged into a Van and taken away because she couldn’t stand on her own, may have a health problem.

        1. The Real Jane

          No, that’s not what I think. I think that many people who are sexist are happy to promote the idea that Clinton is unfit to lead because of health problems, health problems which have been confected and inflated by misogynists. This has been going on for months. I’ve read about how she’s gaining weight – health problems. She laughed – health problems. She coughed – health problems. She sneezed – health problems.

          I’ve read that she’s had heart attacks, strokes, falls, various operations and is an alcoholic. I don’t know whether any of these things are true, but in her time as NY senator or secretary of state, they don’t appear to have prevented her from doing her job, so I would imagine that they are the figment of the imagination of people who simply cannot bear to have a woman as president.

          1. Nigel

            A tiny glimmer of understanding almost breaks through. The world can be a horrible place for other people. Sometimes they will tell you why. But that automatically makes them SJWs so you don’t have to believe them! Phew! Understanding dodged!

          2. Tony

            Yes. To view the world in the modern framework of a horrible patriarchy and using that viewpoint to frame every situation must be deeply self rewarding in a very disappointing way.

          3. Nigel

            That the truth might be disappointing but also rewarding is something you may have to accept about the world.

    2. Nigel

      ‘And the pneumonia things just is plain false.’

      Everything that’s wrong with journalism: when people just want to believe poo, they will believe it.

      1. Tony

        Do you believe the pneumonia story? if so…. “when people just want to believe poo, they will believe it”.

          1. Nigel

            Pollen and pneumonia: real things that exist and affect people who are alive. Therefore, they can’t be true.

            A polleny obstruction of respiration?

        1. Nigel

          I have no reason not to believe it, and neither do you, unless you actually believe the YouTubers, in which case you’re a fool, and while we disagree on nearly everything, I’ve never thought of you as that much of a fool. However, you do argue in bad faith and from laughably faulty premises a lot.

          1. Tony

            The heat, pollen, pneumonia- why was the comms handled so badly. Why is this the third or fourth health issue without reply? Come on, you’re not a fool either, but stop being blinded by your narrow patronising view.

          2. Nigel

            Why acknowledge random YouTube smears? What other random YouTube smears should they respond to? The ones about the murders? Pollen, pneumonia and a health report are all that’s needed.

          3. Daisy Chainsaw

            I could easily go on YouTube and ask why Donald Trump is so orange. What is he covering up with so much make up? Jaundice? Lesions? He did do a lot of partying in Studio 54 when other men his age were fighting in Vietnam. Why does a supposedly heterosexual man wear make up anyway?

            Why is his hair like that. Is he covering more than a bald spot? Maybe it’s to cover a scar from secret brain surgery?

            It’s so easy to ask stupid questions.

          4. Nigel

            There is no stupid, evil, lying question you could ask about Trump that comes close to the stuff he has actually said and done. That’s part of the staggering weirdness of this election.

        2. pedeyw

          Do you have an alternative or a reason why you think the pneumonia story is clearly false? I’m not trying to get at you, I’m genuinely curious as to the alternative reasons.

          1. pedeyw

            Actually that wasn’t directed at Nigel, I thoink we’re more or less on the same page. It was directed at Tony who makes big claims but rarely (if ever) backs them up.

    3. forfeckssake

      FDR had Polio. Are you aware that an epipen is used to treat allergic reactions?

      Using this as an opportunity to attack Hilary just shows that you support a racist, misogynist candidate.

    4. Anne

      “epipens following her around” Do you know what an epipen is for? They’re used to treat anaphylactic shock. Google it..zzzope

  2. Clampers Outside!

    ” It’s almost as if we in the media take an editorial position with no factual basis ”

    And so ends our self-awareness class for journalists. We’re so glad some of you are starting to realise what most people think of the media you work in.

    Next week, we’ll be able to have you repeat the word “almost”.

        1. pedeyw

          Yeah, within ten seconds of that video he calls him Emperor Obama, so I doubt I’m going to get any non biased information, and a plug for his book at the end. Totally reliable information, yeah.

  3. newsjustin

    Good point.

    The irony is, this stumble would be a non-issue (which I believe it probably is in fact) if Hillary’s campaign hadn’t gotten backed into this corner about her health.

    Best thing she can do is have a good rest and come back strong. Worst thing would be to push on through it and stumble/trip/faint again.

    1. mauriac

      “stumble” was exactly how it was originally described but how could anyone watch this video and buy that … https://youtu.be/pXPAmQMXDbA ? She had a fit and was dragged unconscious or paralyzed into the van .
      This article is spot-on .The media is understandably terrified of potus Trump and is giving the corrupt Clinton’s an easy ride.She should drop out now.

      1. newsjustin

        Well it just looked like a classic faint rather a more sinister sounding fit. But what do I know?

        The interesting thing her, apart from the fact that I hope she returns to rude health, is that her campaign team allowed themselves to be boxed into the corner on this. Like Trump and his taxes, it’s now looking like there’s something worth hiding.

        And, for the record because it matters to some people, I would, on balance, prefer to see Clinton becoming the next POTUS.

        1. mauriac

          Clinton would be much better but what a choice in a country of 300 million people ; a corrupt shyster lawyer or a sociopathic orange moron with a monstrous comb over .
          On her health : why didn’t they go straight to hospital ? Here’s an elderly woman supposedly suffering from pneumonia who has a fit and collapses and they rush her to her daughter’s flat ? Then she reappears looking chipper in a few hours . Makes me think she has a serious condition which her handlers are familiar with and not too worried about .

  4. Nigel

    ‘Left-wing apparatus Vox chimed in with an article titled: “The bonkers conspiracy theory about Hillary Clinton’s health.”’

    So identifying fairly blatant and obvious anti-Clinton conspiracy theorising smear merchants creating rafts of stupid YouTube videos as conspiracy theory smear merchants is NOT journalism? Journalists are supposed to lend credence and add credibility to these people? THAT’S everything that’s wrong with the media, if this is how you think it should work. There was no news about Clinton’s health until she had a health-related incident. Thinking that means the smear-merchants must have been right is to confuse correlation with credibility.

    Still, you have to admire how Trump’s steady diet of virgin’s blood and monkey glands is keeping him hale and hearty,

    1. Tony

      She is not well. She has stumbled publicly more than once. The public that are voting for her should know the full facts. Why is her campaign obfuscating and peddling this line about pneumonia? In the absence of clear, honest information, the media will create any story they wish.

      1. Nigel

        Either that or she has been succesfully smeared by alt-right goons. Since the alt-right goons are by their nature liars, I’ll just assume anyone latching onto their promulgation of the larger health issue, as opposed to the issue of the incident yesterday, are just doing so in bad faith. This is pure ‘when did you stop beating your spouse’ territory.’

        1. Tony

          Em, she fell over Nigel.twice. She couldn’t stand. Does your whacko obsession make you actually blind too? You’re going a bit Jim Corr these days.

          1. Nigel

            From such tiny seeds do vast conspiracy-smears grow. Get back to me with credible sources. The only thing I believe about this is that alt-right ratfeckers have poisoned the well on this story so that it can never be either proven or disproven, and will merely eventually fade away into the background noise when it’s done the job of distracting from all all the important stuff, just as with Obama’s birth cert and Kerry’s war record and all those little lies about Gore, all mainstreamed by journalists who seemed to think journalism was not about pointing out that stupid lies are stupid and lies.

          2. Nigel

            Your cynicism about the media is leading you to substitute random YouTubers for actual journalism. Perhaps selectively, but the worst part about Internet News is we get to pick and choose whatever pleases us best and flatters our preconceptions.

          3. Tony

            People don’t need journalists to tell them what they can see with their eyes. Just because it appeared on Youtube doesn’t mean she didn’t fall over. And Hilary’s history isn’t exactly an open book on such matters. What is interesting is where does the campaign go from here? Bring back the Bern? Try and stumble through for the rest of the campaign without confronting this? Hardly.

          4. Nigel

            You don’t need journalists. You need YouTubers with photoshop, a cheap-end editing suite and, apparently, the ability to read a closed book. Clearly journalism has no role to play here at all.

          5. Nigel

            I, er, largely agree with this. My stipulation would be that this incident, while it needs to be addressed, does not retrospectively grant any credibility whatsoever to any alt-right YouTube conspiracy smear. However, realistically, the media may well decide that it does, to the further detriment of a campaign that’s already a clown show on fire.. This is stupid, but there you go. The tweet suggesting she release her records and call for Trump to do the same is probably spot on.

          6. Tony

            Its not about an alt right conspiracy, or a feminist one or any other issue you spend your days on. Its about whether she is well enough to become president. Simples. And until she comes clean about the health issues, she wont have the trust to get elected. Then you will have your perfect outcome for years to come. God help us all.

          1. Bob

            We’ve already seen you’re a conspiracy theorist, so probably best keep out of this one as nobody believes you.

          2. pedeyw

            I see, you’re a rugged individualist who sees the world as it really is. And also you’re quoting David Icke.

          3. human

            We’re only making plans for Nigel
            We only want what’s best for him
            We’re only making plans for Nigel
            Nigel just needs that helping hand

          4. manonfire

            “I am me
            I am free”

            You actually think im quoting someone p!?

            Bitter little boy, how my opinions hurt you

          5. pedeyw

            I’m not bitter at all, Manonfire, you’re opinions have very little effect on me. I just don’t think you’re as free thinking as you think you are. Your personal biases are pretty clear, as I’m sure, our mine. Perhaps you weren’t quoting David Icke and you just happened to use the same phrase as the title of one of his books. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

          1. Tony

            Its not about him either. Its about Hilary’s health and how she deals with it. But keep looking for straw men and whatabouterys everywhere.

          2. Nigel

            a) I’m not sure what the straw man is here and b) since it’s a race between two people I don’t think it’s out of order to bring in the trust issues associated with her opponent when she is loudly declared to be untrustworthy based on incidents that have been addressed and a whole load of smearing.

          3. Nigel

            I think you and integrity may not be on speaking terms or on the same planet or in the same universe. Trump will probably fix it for you to get a nobel, though.

          4. Captain freegear

            On planet Nidge your either with Hillary or else your an alt right goon; now that’s an indemnic diversion of colonic masturbation

      2. forfeckssake

        Why are you sure it isn’t pneumonia? If they are telling the truth and you just don’t like the truth that doesn’t mean they’re lying.

  5. mildred st. meadowlark

    The menopause? That’s my guess. She’s going through the horrors of it right at the pinnacle of a long and frankly mad campaign, and she’s run down with it all. She needs a holiday.

      1. mildred st. meadowlark

        I don’t doubt it. It’s very easy to get pneumonia, especially if you’re run down. The menopause is extremely draining on a woman’s body, and considering her age it could well be a factor. Either way, I hope she comes back fighting.

    1. Mick Lamass

      She’s a bit past the change I would say.
      In fairness if you were running for president you’d get pretty run down too. Boring election. Boring media. Boring story.

      1. mildred st. meadowlark

        True, but the menopause can begin anywhere from early forties to late sixties in women and last anywhere from a year to ten.

        But yeah, she’s been campaigning non-stop for two years or so. She was bound to hit a wall at some point.

  6. Fully Keen

    Elderly lady has elderly lady issues.

    Could be denying a more serious underlying condition. Which could make for a fun year ahead.

      1. Fully Keen

        Who is talking about trump?

        She is an elderly lady.

        And if you’re asking, Trump is also elderly.

        Now what?

  7. rory

    “It’s almost as if we in the media take an editorial position with no factual basis, dare critics to prove us wrong, and then when events do, we modify our stance.”

    What was the ‘factual basis’ for theories relating to Hillary’s health before this incident? (Genuine question.)

      1. rory

        Assertions made in youtube videos are not neccessarily facts.
        If you want the contents of that video to count as ‘factual basis’, you’d have to cite reliable sources to corroborate it’s claims.

        In this particular case, the links provided under the video indicate that the source of the claim is a blogger called Hal Turner. He is an American white nationalist and Holocaust denier.
        https://web.archive.org/web/20070607135103/http://www.halturnershow.com/RedCrossRecordsProveHolocaustWasFraud.html
        (Sourced from his wikipedia page.)

        I think it’s fair to say that he is not a relaible source of info.

  8. :-Joe

    Eh.. what’s the big fuss?….

    Even if you’ve only ever read a single ghost story or the only horror film you’ve watched is the wizard of Oz you’d know you can’t kill a witch with dehydration and pneumoniae… on it’s own anyway…

    Plus, she has the endless power of profiteering through criminal war mongering, disaster capitalist greed, big finance first, treason etc. etc.

    Not even two kamikaze 747’s can take her out at this stage…

    I still think she’ll lose the fake election though…

    :-J

  9. rory

    Interesting fainting facts:
    George W Bush almost choked on a pretzel.
    Bush Snr. vomited on the Prime Minister of Japan.

  10. some old queen

    Yes there is an anti woman dynamic at play because nobody is asking about Trumps health even though he refuses to make his records public. But, you can be absolutely certain that both parties have had their candidates fully checked out beforehand.

    In whose interest would it be to allow either of these candidates run for office if in bad health? It is all nonsense. The woman had a cold/flu/allergy/whatever which then turned into pneumonia. She was advised to rest on Friday and she did not. And the reason she did not is because she was very active in the post 9/11 victim support campaigns.

    I admire her for turning up because she should have been in her bed. Good luck to her and I hope she has a speedy recovery,

    1. newsjustin

      No. His issue is taxes. I don’t think there’s an anti woman dynamic going on. It’s anything goes in this campaign, the opposition picks on what it perceives to be the other side’s weak points. Albeit, Trump does it in a far more abrasive, over the top, rude way.

      1. Neilo

        The kind of disease that got it done: Mr. Gorbals Chef*, tear down this wall! *Kisses scapular photo of Ron’n’Maggie.

        *Glasgow short order cook by day – Lorne sausage, his speciality – and head buck cat of the Evil Empire by night.

  11. rotide

    This piece is pretty indicitive of where broadsheet is going.

    This is ludicrous in the extreme and 90% of the replies are manonfires truther videos and other lunatics of his ilk.

      1. Nigel

        I disagree with rotide about a lot of things. I also generally find him one of the better critical thinkers who comment here. More rotides and fewer manonfires, please.

          1. rotide

            Likewise Nigel!

            You might be interested to know that I directly quoted you* in a pub discussion not 2 weeks ago. It is only through being challenged that we learn.

            * Non-attributed. ‘Random bloke on the internet sez’ tends to undermine the cut and thrust of boozy debate.

        1. Nigel

          ‘These people who are skeptical of my clinically stupid amateur political hit-job videos are so darn credulous!’

    1. some old queen

      Can we please ban same people with different usernames? It is not like it would be hard to spot who they are.

  12. jimmy russell

    ugh can we just stop talking about President Hillary Clinton’s health already? only bitter misogynists are propergating this ridiculous conspiracy theory.

  13. Junkface

    Donald Trump only eats buckets of fried chicken, steak, or burgers. He refuses to eat vegetables and is clearly a fat sod. I’d say there’s a serious level of cholesterol in his system, clogging up his arteries. HE is more likely to drop dead on the job than anyone else. Has he ever been scene exercising?

    They shouldn’t have pushed out Hilary into the public eye the day after a Pneumonia diagnosis but thats modern US politics for you. Hopefully she recovers and we can all get this election over with coz it is the Toilet bowl of all elections. Sweet weepin Jesus on the cross!

      1. Neilo

        If the Trumpazoid had never been seen exercising in public, then more power to him. These public displays of calisthenics and whatnot ill befit a gentleman of a certain age and, erm, heft.

  14. wedduck

    A 68 year old woman standing in the hot sun wearing body armour under her clothes, feels faint. Stop the presses.

  15. Fully Keen

    A presidential candidate collapsed.

    Is that not news?

    Is it because I have a mickey?

    My poor old mickey.

  16. Murtles

    This is what happened to Jed Barlett with not disclosing his illness and he got censured. But he got re-elected then so it’s not a biggy.

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