‘Utterly Ludicrous’

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Last night.

During a debate on the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2016, Independents 4 Change TD Clare Daly recalled her day in Naas District Court yesterday.

Her appearance in court followed a bench warrant being issued by Judge Desmond Zaidan for her arrest on October 13 after she left the court – before her case was called.

Grab a tay.

Clare Daly: “I am absolutely delighted that the Bill has been tabled. People often correctly give out about politicians but at least we have to go before them once in a blue moon and there is some element of accountability and right to recall whereas the Judiciary is completely and utterly a law unto itself. It is great that so many judges perform so well but we are stuck with those who do not. While I am glad Fianna Fáil introduced the Bill, the measures will only go some way to improving the quality of the judges we end up with.”

The idea that somebody could be in such a position of power because of political connections rather than merit and so on is absolutely reprehensible and I welcome the measures in this regard. However, we need to put the spotlight on this issue. Substantial reform in this area is critical. The lack of training and regulation of judges is a huge problem. When they behave irrationally, nothing can be done. The idea of justice not only being done but being seen to be done cannot happen in our State while the Judiciary is organised in the manner it is currently.

“I would like tell to story and I assure the Chair that the story, even though it involves a court case, will not go into details of the case in front of the judge but it is a graphic example of what I am talking about. It is incredibly fresh in my mind because it happened today and it involved me and a judge in Naas District Court. The history of this case is that I was summonsed to appear before Naas District Court on a driving offence. I allegedly drove at a speed of 59 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. Three weeks ago, I was called in respect of the case. The case was not listed for a hearing on that date; it was to be the first mention in court.”

“When I arrived in court, the case was No. 188 on the list and the judge is well known in the area, for whatever reason, for not starting judicial proceedings on time. Even though the court is scheduled to begin at 10.30am, he regularly appears much later than that. There is also a tradition of cases being religiously taken in order. In every court sitting I have ever attended as an observer, defendant or plaintiff, the judge normally goes through the list, dispenses with the cases in which a court date is being sought and keeps back the cases that are due for hearing in order to efficiently administer justice and ensure the management of the time of all the people who end up in the court on the day, including those who take time off work to attend because they have been summonsed as witnesses or defendants, solicitors, gardaí, prison officers and so on.”

My case was listed as No. 188 out of 188. The judge proceeded with the cases for the morning. I watched what was happening in them and then I instructed a solicitor on this minor driving matter and left the court at lunchtime. Later that day, I attended an Oireachtas committee meeting and I was not to know that the judge having reached case No. 175—–

Acting Chairman (Deputy Catherine Connolly): Is the Deputy relating this to the Bill?

Daly: I am. It relates to the fact that judges are not subject to any accountability whatsoever and to the huge costs the State can incur because of their irrational behaviour. When the judge was finishing up for the day, he had reached case No. 175 but decided to jump to the end of the list and call case No. 188. He called the solicitor before the court and asked him where was his client, even though I had instructed the solicitor, and what reason I had for not being there.

“The reason was I had been there in the morning and had watched how this judge had dealt with cases. I witnessed cases being called for which people did not turn up on similar charges or did not have a solicitor. No bench warrants or any other proceedings were dealt with. A judgment was simply given in those cases.”

“Judges are an incredibly powerful position. I respect our court system and I respect the fact that judges have discretion but that discretion has to be exercised proportionately and rationally and when it is not, there has be some body in place to call them to account. The judge could accuse me, without any recourse on my part, of disrespecting the court.”

“By doing that and issuing a bench warrant in those circumstances when I clearly was not a risk of absconding – the case not even listed for a hearing and he dealt with other cases earlier without issuing a bench warrant against those who were not there or who did not have a solicitor – the consequence of his action was that An Garda Síochána, which was an innocent victim, was subject to massive negative publicity that it had orchestrated this.”

A sergeant had to leave his post in Newbridge, drive in a squad car to Swords and spend the day there vacating the order at enormous expense to the State. I had to return to Naas District Court today to listen to the same judge lecturing me about disrespecting his court without giving me an opportunity to say anything about his irrational decision.”

“Our laws provide that nobody can do anything about that judge but he is causing huge problems with regard to the administration of justice given the inefficiency of the court sittings in his district. This needs to be radically reformed. I am glad that Fianna Fáil opted to introduce the Bill today because it is long overdue. This is only one aspect of judicial oversight and we need to go further.”

“I acknowledge a judicial council is included in the Government’s programme but some outrageous decisions and behaviour are taking place in our courts. In fairness, the presidents of the District Court, Circuit Court and so on can do nothing about it. That cannot be allowed to continue.

Judges have been appointed to areas or even communities in which they worked as a solicitor and this has led to conflicts of interest. They presided over cases involving people they formerly represented and proceeded to hear the cases, which is completely wrong.

“The option of challenging judges through a judicial review is not sufficient because one is putting oneself in a position of massive expense and accusing a judge of bias, which people do not want to do.”

“Other members have made points about some inconsistent decisions which have been made with far more awful consequences than mine. I wanted to use my case as an example of the utterly ludicrous behaviour of some of the people we have entrusted to manage our courts but no one can do anything about it.”

The saddest point about the case I referred to is that the judge in question is the sitting judge in Naas District Court. This means he can stay there for as long as he likes. From looking at him today, he has a few years left in him. The court could have him for about 12 more years.”

“The expense to the State of having 100 gardaí, solicitors and people tied up every day while he operates his court place, like I described, is utterly ludicrous and in radical need of change. I support this bill as a first step in that process.”

Transcript: Oireachtas.ie

Video: RTE

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49 thoughts on “‘Utterly Ludicrous’

    1. jambon

      Because he has been conferred with one of the most important/supposedly noblest responsibilities of any civil society and he has abused, consistently, not only his position, but justice itself. That is the behavior of a scumbag, no question. If you don’t get that, maybe read a few oul bukes about Western civilization, democracy and the importance of a judiciary that serves society. Some of them oul bukes have pictures in them, you’ll like them.

      1. Owen C

        Can you give me some examples of his “consistent” behaviour which you view as abusive to justice and civil society?1

        1. Owen C

          Awesome input as always Jambon. Today’s interaction by no means suggests you are a clown of the highest order.

          1. Mr Reality

            Hey Owen go read the Leinster leader, there is a court section of some 3 pages all of zaidan locking people up, aggressively fining etc etc, the guy is a well known lunatic, maybe you should have looked him up before jumping in there..

    2. De Kloot

      Because the fix was in. Because of the reason why CD was in Kildare to begin with. Because of Horse Racing Ireland. Because of the little club that affords Horse Racing Ireland’s CEO his overpaid job. Because the whole thing once again demonstrates and amplifies the corruption that exists in Ireland. And last but not least, if you become a target – an enemy of the State if you will, the State will leverage any and all of its resources to protect it. Yes I know what I wrote there. When I use the term State, I mean those who sit inside the tent… And, if you wish to continue to pretend you have no idea about all of this… good luck to you…. because once you see inside this ‘tent’, you’ll never unsee it…

    1. broadbag

      + 3 The judiciary are (in certain cases) an absolute disgrace and it seems they are subject to little or no oversight. The lenient sentences being handed out for repeat offenders are demoralising the Gardai, why bother arresting some scrote for a minor offence when you know they’ll be back on the street before you’ve filled in the paperwork?

    1. mildred st. meadowlark

      Precisely this.

      Whatever you feel about her, this is one thing that she is dead right about.

  1. Joe

    About time manners were put on the Judiciary there are multiple stupid judgements made every day that cost millions to tax payers. Judges need to be held to account. The justice system needs an independent body to appoint judges based on merit to end the biased political appointments/appointees as favoured by whatever political party that happens to be in power on the day.

    We need more outspoken TD’s like Clare Daly from all political hues to highlight judges absurd behaviour and stupid judgements

  2. Kolmo

    They are a closed shop, a grouping detached and self-elevated from society, with a laughable sense of self-importance, Ms. Daly and her politics are a threat to this very cosy set-up, of course they’ll go after her..

          1. Marc

            1) Woman is summonsed to appear in court.

            2) Woman decides she has more important things to do than hang around all day waiting for her case to be heard.

            3) Woman leaves the court to return home. (although she may have gone to work instead)

            4) Judge calls woman’s case and when woman is not present a bench warrant is issued to return woman to court to have her case heard.

            Which one of the above statements is incorrect?

          2. anne

            yeah I think society as a whole is a safer place when people driving 6 miles (in the old units) over the limit are locked up..36 miles an hour..ffs.

        1. Paddy

          She had more important things to do. Dail business is 100 times more important that having judgie woodgies pi$$ng about.

  3. Marc

    Woman is summonsed to appear in court.

    Woman decides she has more important things to do than hang around all day waiting for her case to be heard.

    Woman leaves the court to return home.

    Judge calls woman’s case and when woman is not present a bench warrant is issued to return woman to court to have her case heard.

    Seems to me like it is not the judge who was at fault and the woman chose to leave the court knowing a bench warrant would be issued so she could make a point.

    1. ivan

      If it was a case that he issued Bench Warrants for everybody else who was a no-show for traffic offences, you might be within the same postcode of being close to right. He didn’t, so you’re not.

      He evidently picked on Clare Daly in this instance; he skipped from case 175 to 188. Her liberty wasn’t at stake no matter the finding of the court and so the matter could, in any event, have been heard in her absence. She instructed a solicitor to be there which isn’t indicative of somebody giving two fingers to the court.

      1. Marc

        The judge is entitled to deal with cases as he sees fit – which appears to be the issue she has with the system. This, however, does not excuse the fact that she chose to leave the court as she felt she was more important than the law.

      2. Marc

        She stated:

        “The reason was I had been there in the morning and had watched how this judge had dealt with cases. I witnessed cases being called for which people did not turn up on similar charges or did not have a solicitor. No bench warrants or any other proceedings were dealt with. A judgment was simply given in those cases.”

        If she was happy to accept the judgement in her absence, accept the additional penalty points and not appeal the “alleged” speeding charge why did she take the case to court in the first place?

        Does that sound like somebody who does not have an ulterior motive for her actions?

        1. ivan

          The Judge *is* entitled, up to a point, but if he differentiates between how he treats punter A and punter B, then there’s a problem. So he issues a BW for Daly but nobody else, despite there being other no-shows? That’s the problem. In other words, he saw fit to treat Daly one way and others in a different manner. It appears (Garda Siochana an innocent victim) that the Gardai didn’t seek the Bench Warrant, rather the judge issued it of his own volition.

          As to the reason for her appearance? Here’s how it works. You’re caught speeding. A fixed penalty notice issues, and it goes to the house of the driver, by ordinary prepaid post. You’ve 28 days to pay €80. If you don’t, it goes up to €120 and you’ve another 28 days to pay. Paying that penalty means no court appearance but you get 3 penalty points.

          If – for whatever reason – the fine (either low or high) isn’t paid becuase, say, you didn’t get the notice, or you let it slide into the 57th day, a summons issues automatically, by the courts services on application by the Gardai. The offender doesn’t get to actively ‘take the case to court’.

          What exactly is the ulterior motive you’re suggesting?

          1. Owen C

            I dont think its unreasonable to expect a TD to be more respectful of the judicial process than the average Joe Punter. Perhaps that’s why the judge was harsher in dealing with her.

          2. ivan

            And if she hadn’t bothered her hoop to show up, I’d agree. But she did show, the list was long and rather than just skedaddle out the door, she left a solicitor there to speak on her behalf.

            I’ve appeared in front of judges and clients are a no-show because, say, they have to work or are ‘out foreign’ and the view taken by a significant majority of judges is that this is OK. Of course appearing yourself is ideal but the issue here is that, like it or not, we should all be equal in the eyes of the court, certainly at the point of where the case is called and the BW issued.

            Now, I’ll grant you that if, say, in a hypothetical example Mickey is up on court on a speeding offense and he pleads guilty to it, the judge will ask his circumstances and so forth. What does he do, etc. If, at that point in the case Mickey says ‘actually I’m in the Garda traffic corps but i was off duty’ then maybe the judge should come down harder on him because he shoudl know better. But THAT’S after the case has been heard and the conviction recorded.

            In this instance, purely based on recognizing the big head of red hair as belonging to That Wan What Does Be On The Telly, the judge went on a solo run. I can see no other explanation.

          3. anne

            A garda told me that if you pretend you never got the fine in the post..and you’re summonosed to go to court, the judge then can’t apply the penalty points to you and may only make you contribute something to the poor box. Any truth to that?

            btw..some judges are very reasonable about this money making racket. 9km over is a scam.

            50k a week these Go Safe vans were making. They have themselves reporting a loss now apparently..amazing what good accountants can do and registering to the Isle of Man.

            http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-throws-out-100-cases-of-speeding-over-outsourcing-30665588.html

          4. anne

            Wondering too what recourse do you have to fight any speedy fine? When I paid a fine there one time, I was whinging to the Post Office staff and your wan working there said you can ask to see that their radar equipment thingy is calibrated. It’s suppposed to be calibrated every so often. The doppler effect measuring your speed might be wrong if not calibrated..apparently.

            It said too on the fine if you challenge the fine and lose you get 5 points instead of 3…great democracy altogether we have.

  4. Joe Small

    She’s dead right about the unaccountability of judges and the poor standard of training they receive. However, her own personal moan about a speeding offence is hardly the judicial miscarriage of the century. Surely she has constituents who have suffered real and severe grievances at the hands of incompetent judges. Their story would have carried a lot more weight and impact than a self-serving story about a T.D. being somewhat inconvenienced.

  5. wearnicehats

    I really don’t care about any of this except that every time I see footage from this lot there is no-one to be seen in that room. Other than Clare Daly and the tax-dodger. MAybe they could not sit beside each other for a change and make the place look a bit busier.

  6. Mahoney

    is Jambon Claire Daly or something? I mean it’s one thing to say “no, you’re wrong, here’s why”, but replying “hurrr ur stoopid” to everyone with a different opinion than yours? jesus get a grip ion yourself.

  7. Fergus the magic postman

    At best, this was a case of a judge making a very bad judgement call (he had one job etc.), what with who the case involved and the current relationship history between Clare Daly and the Gardaí and the publicity his his bench warrant was bound to initiate.

  8. Brandy

    Why did Clare Daly not pay the fixed penalty fine?
    She could have avoided the necessity of going to court.

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