68 thoughts on “De Sunday Papers

    1. conspiritor#1

      No, this whole ‘Trump’ nonsense was just a cover for one of the Lucan lads getting their end away on telly.

      Donald trump as president – as if!

  1. Kenny Plank

    Millions protest against Trump.

    Number deleting Twitter accounts (his fave medium): Zero
    Number dumping Facebook stock (his fave fake news platform): Zero
    Number of U.S. citizens who will protest by refusing to file U.S. and State tax reports on April 18, 2017: Zero

    Some protest.

    1. Nigel

      Number not wearing clothes even though Trump wears clothes? Zero.
      Number giving up food even though Trump is known to eat? Zero.
      Number floating off into space even though Trump is on gravity all the time? Zero.
      Some protest.

        1. Twunt

          An very good article that shines a great big spotlight on the parts of Obama that his cheerleaders and sycophants refuse to acknowledge.

        2. Nigel

          Loves me some John Pilger and a reminder of Obama’s appalling record in terms of hawkish militarism is timely. But when it comes to opposing Trump n the US, being leftier than thou isn’t going to get you far. Obama, never anything other than a centrist, though liberal on some social issues, is leaving office with very high approval ratings, and Clinton won the popular vote by over two million. He draws a line from Obama to Trump, but the actual details are the usual vague stuff about ‘stigmatizing’ his voters and a failure to ‘challenge transnational capitalism’. Which is all well and good, because at the end of the day, you can’t delve into the actual events such as how the two candidates came to be nominated, how the Republicans have been demonising Clinton for thirty years, the ‘fake news,’ the FBI letter, the leaks, the hacking,,Trump’s supporters bulletproofing him against all scandal, without coming away with a profound sense of a godless, random uncaring universe that’d chill even the leftiest anarchist atheist.

          I guess what I’m saying is, deplorable and all though Obama and Clinton might be, they’re centrist, and the centre in the US is way to the right of the centre everywhere else, and this is a centrist protest. Having said that, there’s a strong chance that as a result of the right being such a bunch of complete and utter cocks, the centre may move leftward as a result. But this tendency for the left and the right to unite in making liberals the whipping-boys for literally everything bad might counter-act that nicely.

        3. Formerly known as @ireland.com

          The Pilger article did nothing for me. We know the USA does a lot of evil. Obama wasn’t perfect but he was not GWBush and he definitely was a lot better than Trump.

          1. Taanbuaagam

            Agreed formerly.

            It’s typically unreadable, predictable, belligerent biased tripe from a self- regarding blowhard. It doesn’t surprise me to see the likes of the goomballs who stalk this board praise it.

          2. jusayinlike

            Disagreed, Obama’s legacy; drone warfare, spent everyday of his 8 years at war, amassed more nukes than any other president.

            His record makes GW look like a school boy..

      1. Deluded

        Thank you Sido.
        I respect Pilger as a journalist and a documentarian but not as an historian.
        Regarding his perspective on the American war machine I would note that troop numbers were reduced from 150,000+ to closer to 14,000 in active war zones.
        Obama’s diplomacy and negotiations are utterly ignored in these analyses of the usual problem of Democrats mopping-up after the GOP.

        I think this line in particular betrays Pilger:
        “… pushing white workers into an ‘identity’ of white nationalism and helping the neo-fascists to organise them”…
        The snowflakes are upset that their automatic ascendancy has been challenged and are now crying that they are forced to be racist, when they are just being fearful and protectionist.
        It’s pathetic, unseemly and historically ignorant.
        In my view this is the last sting of the dying WASP, the legacy of the Obama years will be the desperate obstructionism of the illiberal elites and the exposure of the dark heart of their society so it can no longer be downplayed or brushed over.
        Hopefully we will all survive this bout of petulance.

        1. Nigel

          It’s peculiar that people blame white nationalism on identity politics rather than the other way around, given white nationalism’s ascendancy in the west for the last millennium or so and the fact that it was responsible for a few unfortunate incidents such as, eg, world war two.

          1. Deluded

            “No You!!!”
            That’s literally the tactic here.

            Have you read the Unabomber manifesto? The intro gives an insight into this mentality.

          2. Nigel

            One form of identity politics is giving out about the make-up of TV panels discussing issues around race or gender; the other form is families in Belfast getting burned out of their homes because of their skin colour. But sure, the former is the sort of thing that ‘drove’ people to vote for Trump and Brexit.

          3. Sido

            @ Nigel – I think you might be confusing the term Identity politics. Your example of WWII – for instance looks at the European theatre. Where the major protagonist was a Nationalist who happened to be white by virtue of geography.
            Whether or not you classify the Japanese as white, is another question, You would have to ask them. Or maybe some of the relatives of the Chinese and others that they killed often with bayonets or shovels.

          4. Nigel

            I was, of course, referring to white nationalism specifically, in the west, and therefore the European Theatre where the conflict began. The identity politics at play in the east are another matter, but I don’t think anyone seriously argues that they contributed to the rise of Nazi Germany.

          5. Sido

            Sorry Nigel – I have to disagree. You appear to be confusing the term “Identity politics” with Nationalism. (And National Socialism in this case).

            For instance my leanings “were” to the left. As I see it as a good thing that we help others, who are less fortunate.
            The current left sees arguments about what toilets sexually confused people use as being relevant to society. They whine about the unfair treatment of women, whilst ignoring the plight of women, who are brought up under the Islamic religion – that’s their culture, and walking around in a bag is liberating (apparently), just like being sexually mutilated, and otherwise treated as a chattel.
            They make every attempt to ban free speech or any idea contrary to their own. While labelling their opponents Alt- Right or populists.

            Whilst I still retain my basic left wing views – I’ve not yet worked out if I’m an Alt-Right or a Populist – maybe you could offer me some help there

          6. Happy Molloy

            Good post Sido.

            I think even Geldof captured it well when he asked why the young generation is campaigning about toilets instead of something worthwhile

          7. Deluded

            (I had always imagined the Unabomber as some kind of warrior-monk who lived in the wilderness.
            In fact he lived 4 miles out of town where he worked for his family, before being fired for harrassing his female supervisor.
            He did odd-jobs around the town while his family continued giving him money, unknowingly funding a campaign against the military-industrial complex despoiling his world i.e. travel agents and college professors)

          8. Nigel

            I’m not trying to be confusing about identity politcs, more tongue in cheek.

            As for the rest, it’s a big confusing complex world. It’d be great if one of the defining debates of the day was about the treatment of people, rather than a push for a war between cultures. People end up defending one culture against extremists in their own, while deploring the nastier aspects of the culture they’re defending gets sidelined or ignored. Opposing Islamophobia doesn’t preclude joining AI and campaigning for civil rights in Islamic countries.

            As for the toilets thing, I reckon making life safer for a vulnerable minority is a good thing and not as trivial or ridiculous as everyone seems determined to make it.

            You’re right, though, important things do get ignored and sidelined but people are often quietly and thanklessly working away on those issues and might not apreciate being used as a stick to beat on one side of more prominant debates.

          9. Deluded

            Cool.
            Sido is referencing the paradox of liberalism respecting religion that treats women badly, but having met second and third generation migrants in other countries I think there is hope of tackling these vexed questions.

            Did you know that if a woman wants to have a vasectomy here, for instance if she has long-term medical problems or pre-cancer cells, then the hospital board may demand to see her husband?
            (The trick is to say you had a vasectomy and then it’s game-on.
            I was reminded of it recently in a reference to Sharia courts)

      2. Deluded

        Not a great link but illustrates my point regarding who has betrayed these workers:
        https://www.google.ie/amp/dailysignal.com/2015/11/11/12-bills-that-the-filibuster-stopped-from-becoming-law/amp/?client=safari
        (The race thing is a messy side-line to the greater issue of the class divide. It’s not so much a case of BLM as poor lives matter. Trump’s words regarding law-and-order will have been chilling to anybody who doesn’t drive a perfect car or live a perfect life in a perfect neighbourhood)

      3. Deluded

        I think that glabalisation has little to do with the flight of capital, capital has always flown; rather that workers can now move to where the work is. If that is a concern then I would put a greater emphasis on helping others rebuild their countries and not supporting corruption and terrorism.
        Complex stuff. Maybe we will find examples of Obama trying that.
        (I had a chance recently to watch a documentary about Jack Abramoff and the rise of the Republicans post-Clinton. I mention it because of their illuminating attitude to Saipan and its workforce).

      4. Deluded

        I think the most desperate thing I have read this morning was a headline proclaiming Obama’s net worth has increased by 438%
        … to $7million* and this displays his liberal hypocrisy apparently – the widening wealth gap apparently has nothing to do with Republicans filibustering tax measures.

        *$7m doesn’t even get him into the top 50 senators https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-the-personal-net-worth-of-the-average-Democratic-Senator-is-twice-that-of-the-average-GOP-Senator

        I think the strain in race-relations has little to do with Obama’s actions and has everything to do with the advent of camera phones recording the treatment of the poors.

  2. Custo

    All this marching against trump is a little bit late no? I Mean, if all these people had actually voted in the first place..

      1. bisted

        …the flavour of democracy in the US deemed that Trump had won the election and that crooked Hillary had been rejected. Weeks before the election the Dems went apopleptic when Trump said that the election was rigged and that he mightn’t accept the result.

        Another flavour of democracy in the UK saw UKIP poll almost 4million votes, over 12% of the popular vote, but only 1 out of 650 MPs elected.

        1. Nigel

          Not arguing otherwise. Complacency won both. Just worth remembering that Clinton was rejected by winning more votes than Trump, especially when Trump claims a popular mandate and lies about a landslide victory. It’s conceivable, if not likely, that every single person at those protests voted against Trump.

          1. Nigel

            I meant complacent electorates. The dem campaign was a disaster obviously. The margin of the popular vote only underlines this. The Remain campaign was arguably just as bad

          2. Clampers Outside

            …and contradicts is stance previously, so I’m quite happy that he is coming round to the idea it is the Dems fault.
            Acceptance is a good start. Understanding will come later.

          3. Nigel

            Explain the supposed contradiction and/or illogic. Incorporate the possibility of multiple factors at work. Tricky, I know.

        2. Sido

          Indeed UKIP polled more votes than the entire Scottish Nationalist Party, who have fifty or sixty seats (whatever). Yet it is difficult to argue that the British FPTP system is not democratic.
          A view of the map of the US that shows which states voted for whom, tells the truth here. The vast majority of them, voted for Trump, While the (wealthier) East and West coast States voted for Hillary.
          That’s the American system. And that’s the way politicians there have to play to win.

          There are many forms of democratic systems. None of them is perfect, including our own, where people like Healy Rae and yer man in Tipp, can end up holding political clout way beyond their weight.

          1. Nigel

            Not arguing otherwise. But that margin is going to come up whenever it’s suggested that Clinton was utterly rejected or that populist Trump is actually popular.

          2. Clampers Outside

            That’s not what was meant…. me thinks the man from Roscommon was hinting the other way…

            Sido I believe was talking about an actual exchange of ideas without name calling.

            At least, I think so.

          3. Deluded

            Obama won the popular vote too, Clampers, by millions.
            It’s literally not the same.
            Anyway, I think it’s good that representation is spread otherwise the urban centres would utterly dominate.
            Maybe some form of PR would be more appropriate.

          4. Nigel

            While I have no real opinion on electoral reform in the US, I like the idea that ‘tearing something down to make it fair’ gets treated with reflexive scorn, as if the massive unprecedented disparity in the popular vote is barely worth noticing.

  3. Deluded

    A final note, from Kurt Vonnegut:
    “America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, ‘It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.’ It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: ‘if you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?’ There will also be an American flag no larger than a child’s hand – glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register.

    Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.”

  4. Ron

    President Trump is already having a positive impact on helping the health of maybe 100 irish people. Seeing these obese people out protesting against him means they are probably getting much needed exercise for the first time ever which is only a good thing. Well done President Trump. If only they would get out and protest against what the filth in Leinster House are doing to them. It’s the most laughable thing I’ve ever seen.

Comments are closed.

Sponsored Link
Broadsheet.ie