To The Undocumented

at

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This morning.

On Dame Street, Dublin 2.

Mark Malone tweetz:

Solidarity message. “Happy St Patrick’s Day to the undocumented in the US from the undocumented in Ireland.”

115 thoughts on “To The Undocumented

      1. Andrew

        what’s alt right about that statement? ‘Undocumented’ is just a euphemism for illegal. Whether they be illegal people in Ireland or illegal Irish in the U.S.
        I really am not sure what your point is.

      2. Clampers Outside!

        This is where we are today folks.

        Speak the truth and get called a nazi.

        And absolutely yes, using “alt-reich” is as good as saying nazi in all truth and fairness. Pathetic.

        1. Rob_G

          Nevermind dav, Clampers and his sartorial fixations. He sees blueshirts, blackshirts, brownshirts – every type of shirt – everywhere he goes.

        2. MoyestWithExcitement

          “Speak the truth and get called a nazi.”

          No, your opinion isn’t truth. Calling them illegal when you could call them undocumented speaks to your perspective. Talk like an alt right Nazi, get called an alt right Nazi. Simples. :)

        3. realPolithicks

          “And absolutely yes, using “alt-reich” is as good as saying nazi in all truth and fairness.”

          Is it? Certainly in your mind it is Clampers, but you’re very sensitive to these things nowadays aren’t you. Also what you call the “truth” lots of other people would call opinion.

    1. Rob_G

      @ Panty, haven’t you heard the rule?

      illegal immigrants in Ireland = “illegal immigrants”

      Irish illegal immigrants in other countries = “undocumented”

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        It’s hilarious that you think that’s an argument *for* calling humans ‘illegal’.

        1. Rob_G

          Well, it is a very handy nomenclature that describes the legal situation that they are in very succinctly.

          ‘Extra-judicial immigrants’ is too much of a mouthful.

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            Ok. Well then it’s fine to refer to you as a criminal then seeing as I’m sure you’ve crossed the road away from a pedestrian crossing a couple of times at least since Jay walking was made illegal. And that can actually put lives at risk. Outstaying your visa is unlikely to kill anyone in probably most possible situations.

            ‘Undocumented’ also perfectly describes the situation. I’ll assume you’re being disingenuous by pretending not to know that words like ‘illegal’ trigger emotional reactions in people.

          2. Rob_G

            Don’t worry, Moyest, I am all too well-aware of you and your propensity to be ‘triggered’…

            ‘Undocumented’ makes it sound like there has been some delay with their visa coming through, rather than the actual circumstance of people making the decision to go to a country and live and work there illegally.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            So you do want to use the word illegal to imply they are Bad People then. My entire point.

          4. Rob_G

            I don’t think they are ‘bad people’, but I feel it difficult to feel sympathy for people who find themselves in a difficult situation that was both entirely predictable and completely of their own doing.

            You can call me whatever you like :)

          5. MoyestWithExcitement

            “I feel it difficult to feel sympathy”

            So someone should be branded as Bad because of how you “feel”? For a “crime” that causes harm to nobody when all of us consider something like Jay walking as essentially trivial when it can really end in injury for others? Doesn’t make sense does it.

            Most right wing opinion seems to be rooted in a subconscious desire to look down their collective noses at people. So strong is this desire, beauracracy us a virtue now.

          6. Rob_G

            I’m not sure why you put ‘crime’ in inverted commas – it is a crime, however you or I might ‘feel’ about it.

          7. Rob_G

            I don’t feel strongly about it at all.

            But if people jaywalk, they know that there is a chance that they will get caught and maybe pay a fine or whatever – same as people who move to America and work there illegally, knowing that there is possible consequences to their actions.

          8. MoyestWithExcitement

            Considering jaywalkers also put other people’s lives at risk, which people who don’t fill out forms do not, would you argue they should be referred to as illegal citizens for their crime?

  1. Janet, I ate my avatar

    I hate this idea of ownership that makes the world illegal for humans. Territorial ape BS. we are just ants in the grand scheme of things. What prétention.

    1. Janet, I ate my avatar

      I know I know ideal hippy rant but this tribalism is the source of so many evils

          1. Spaghetti Hoop

            @Starina – true. There was a time when staying ‘undocumented’ was a desired objective and a medal of accomplishment in dodging officialdom and taxes.

          2. Rob_G

            @ Starina

            – not really. It’s just that in times past, it was so difficult and time-consuming to travel to a different country as a private citizen that it didn’t really come up very often.

    2. Andrew

      You may hate that idea janety but many people do not hate that idea. Is your opinion or feeling more valid?

      1. Janet, I ate my avatar

        nickname basis so fast Andy I like your style,
        pity the world doesn’t share your friendly take
        I have issues with ownership of the earth and illegal HUMANS and tribalism
        please share your opinion, that’s what we are here for

      2. Janet, I ate my avatar

        validity is unfortunately a relative concept a little like owning something that doesn’t belong to you
        possession / power being 9 10ths of the law of the jungle
        which is all this pathetic life seems to boil down to for some people = power struggles.

        1. Janet, I ate my avatar

          a wise man once said “love thy neighbour” mind you he said some crazy stuff too but there you go..humans

      3. MoyestWithExcitement

        Her opinion is definitely more valid, Andrew.

        Sorry, let me put that through the Right Wing Whinger Filter; Of COURSE your opinions and feelings are just as important as everyone else’s, you special little snowflake. Want a wowwypop?

        1. Andrew

          You are a bona fide cliché I really did laugh out loud at your comment ‘Moyest’. Right wing whinger filter? Indeed!

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            Did you just finish a sentence with the word ‘indeed’? Ugh. You’re just some curtain twitching hermit that wanted to be a prefect in school, aren’t you. I shouldn’t have bothered.

  2. diddy

    Right on. Theres a few good men and women in this state out working contributing and rasiing families just as the “undocumented” are and deserve AMNESTY

  3. Daisy Chainsaw

    I find the “dey terk er jerbs” types are the ones who’ll defend to the death the right of their cousin to live illegally in Boston!

    1. bertie blenkinsop

      NB: If you ever hear anyone say “Dey terk er jerbs” seek help immediately, they’ve probably taken a stroke.

    2. Andrew

      Do you indeed daisy? Can you give an example of when you have actually come across this? Or are you just projecting what some ‘malcontents’ in your eyes might say; as you don’t actually know anyone who disagrees with your world view.

      1. Kieran NYC

        Yeah, Daisy’s right.

        Plenty of Irish/Irish-American Trump supporters here with friends who are here illegally but who don’t see a link with ‘illegal immigration’.

        “Some, I assume, are good people.”

        1. realPolithicks

          I totally agree Kieran, I know Irish people over here who were “illegal” when they first arrived who now complain about all the immigrants coming here, illegal or otherwise.

  4. Holden MaGroin

    Perhaps I’m being naive but aren’t these people breaking the law by being illegal immigrants. Why is this special term of “undocumented” used like they’re harmless and why do they deserve special treatment? If they shouldn’t be there they shouldn’t be there.

        1. Nigel

          No more nor less harmless than the rest of the population in terms of general law-breaking, unless you’re trying to suggest that all illegal immigrants are somehow more prone to being rapists which you surely can’t be doing.

          1. Andrew

            Nope, just wondering what he was doing here in the first place? but sure as long as it doesn’t effect you it’s harmless eh Nigel?
            No checks.

          2. Janet, I ate my avatar

            Andrew what do you think about always having to have valid ID on all citizens by law, with spot checks by the police naturally. Also you have to show that ID everytime you buy a bus ticket to a washing machine ? Good idea ?

          3. Nigel

            I’m sorry, what do you want me to do, hide under my bed crying in fear that illegals might be coming for me? Get a grip. If you think this indicates a need for tighter checks, go ahead and make the case, without the passive-aggressive nonsense.

          4. realPolithicks

            “Nope, just wondering what he was doing here in the first place? ”

            Most likely he was doing what millions of Irish people have done over the years, trying to improve his life. Your use of this one crime committed by an illegal alien in Ireland as a justification for your argument is a great insight into your mindset though.

          1. Starina

            I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – why on earth would you go to all the trouble, stress, hassle and alienation of emigration just to throw it all away by committing a crime and risking arrest?

            There are psychos everywhere, such as yer man in the journal article above, but “immigrants” are no more likely than anyone else.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Really? Irish prison numbers suggest otherwise.”

            That’s a lie, Andrew.

          3. ivan

            yeah, i was gonna ask if Andrew had any figures to back that up? From my own line of work, (anecdotal, your mileage may vary, my locale is not your locale yadiyadiya) the courts tend to be more bothered with the natives than anything else, and a significant proportion of the non-natives tend to be in bother for traffic offences. That’s not to say that driving without insurance, for example, isn’t serious but it’s not indicative of a whole hape o’ dem coming for ya in yer bed…

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            They come here for a better life. They want a home with a couple of rooms in it and a decent job. That’s all. If they’ve not filled out the forms and they’re at risk at being kicked out of the country, they are not going to want the attention of the police. They pay TWELVE BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR in taxes to the US. But right wingers want them out because right wingers are terrified of everything.

          1. Andrew

            Yes indeed Nigel. I am of course being alarmist rather than in any way rational. Be as flippant as you like, it merely highlights you’re utter indifference.

          2. Nigel

            I am indeed indifferent to your alarmism. Post something rational, and you may provoke a different response.

      1. Clampers Outside!

        You and your wishy washy left Nigel.

        “Ah… we have border rules I know, but sure relax, leave ’em open for a day, they’re harmless” said the globalist to everyone, with only the collectives on the left listening intently.

        1. Nigel

          I’m pro-open borders to the extent that I think the free movement of people around the European Union is awesome. Everything else you’re saying about me is stuff you are completely making up, like Andrew with his ‘you don’t care.’

          1. Nigel

            Andrew. Are you making an appeal to emotion, Andrew? Is that what you’re doing, Andrew? If I don’t get passionate about illegals per se I must not care about rape, Andrew? Shame, Andrew. Shame.

          1. Nigel

            *bites back so many smart responses I nearly lose a tooth*

            Thank you, Andrew, for this lesson in humility and in checking privilege. Go now. Your alarmist planet needs you.

    1. Bob

      Why is there discussion on granting the illegal Irish in the US, an amnesty and the right to live there? Why are our politicians getting involved in this discussion.
      If I broke the law anywhere in the world, will the same politicians seek to give me amnesty and allow me to continue to break the law or have the law changed?

      1. Nigel

        1. They’re Irish citizens so it’s not particularly strange that Irish people would take an interest.
        2. It would depend on the law being broken and the particular justice system.
        3. If you receive amnesty and your situation is normalised, you’re hardly breaking the law any more are you?

        We shouldn’t romanticise the Irish illegals, but there’s no pint being mean-spirited about them, either.

        1. Boj

          The people who overstay their visa are breaking US Immigration law, as are countless other citizens from various other nations. I will be mean spirited towards them because no doubt there is an equivalent person going through the correct channels trying to get their green card but then are refused. It’s pathetic and arrogant to think the Irish are in some way more special than other illegals.

          1. Nigel

            That is literally the best argument against illegal immigrants – they’re skipping a process others are taking the trouble to observe. It doesn’t make me angry or anything, but it’s an argument I can respect.

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            Irish illegal immigrants generally aren’t brown so somehow that makes them less illegal immigranty than the other illegals and therefore more entitled to stay.

          3. Nigel

            Watching Mexican illegals get demonised while others are largely ignored (not to mention the people who employ them) is not an edifying sight.

  5. ahjayzis

    We simply cannot allow innocent people to be deported back to the hellscape that is Ireland. It would be a humanitarian nightmare.

    It’s not as straightforward as when the Irish deport people back to Iran or Nigeria.

    1. realPolithicks

      Marty has his sights set on higher office, Govenor of Massachusetts for instance. He can’t appear to be too parochial in helping the Irish out, that won’t win him any votes with the minority voters he would need to win statewide office.

  6. MoyestWithExcitement

    Threads like this are great for smoking out all the filthy racists from their hovels.

    1. Mahoney

      “everyone critical of unlimited unchecked immigration is a RACIST!!”

      powerful, and really makes you think.

  7. Kenny Plank

    Translation: Happy St Patrick’s Day You White, English-Speaking Privileged Paddies Mouthing Off On Facebook About “Gettin’ 500 bucks into me hand with the bar job in Boston every night” –

    Yours, etc,

    Black, Brown and Yellow People held in Detention Centres (sorry , Direct Provision) in Ireland.

    Karlin Lillington nails it: No, the illegal Irish in US should not be a ‘special’ case : http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/no-the-illegal-irish-in-us-should-not-be-a-special-case-1.3011573

        1. Kieran NYC

          ivan was riffing on some of Ben Carson’s latest nonsense when he referred to slaves as immigrants.

    1. Janet, I ate my avatar

      well they should have had enough cashiers ,
      is it so bad to open your bottle of coke if you are in the queue to pay for it anyway.. if so guilty

  8. MoyestWithExcitement

    Lads, instead of saying Irish people who don’t fill out forms should be treated as badly as those scary brown people who don’t fill out forms, maybe we should treat the brown people as well as Irish people? You know, assume they’re a 3 dimensional nice person unless given reason to think otherwise?

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        2nd Degree Assault by Foreign Accent numbers have shot way up recently, in fairness.

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