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This morning.

Some Dad writes:

A majestic, lesser-spotted No.13 Dublin Bus spotted in the wild….

Meanwhile…

Meanwhile…

rail2

Thanks Laura Gaynor

Meanwhile…

luas

Hueston Luas station this morning.

Earlier: A Limerick A Day

120 thoughts on “Lucky For Some

  1. ironcorona

    While the quiet might be a positive for some, another positive is that the bosses might be prevented from shafting the workers even more.

    Reply
    1. Arcol

      Because it’s only the bosses who got shafted today. Not people going to work/school/hospital. Somewhere there’s an old person getting a taxi they can’t afford to a doctor’s appointment they can’t miss, but that’s fine. We’re all bosses.

      Reply
    2. ahjayzis

      Someone I know with cancer posted on Facebook that he’s missing his appointment due to this ‘surprise!’ strike by a company not affected by the dispute. Way to stand up for the little guy. You’re a working class hero.

      Reply
      1. ironcorona

        Did you just use someone’s cancer to counter the point of view of a stranger on the internet?

        You’re the real hero.

        Reply
          1. ahjayzis

            Why was it low? I’m a card-carrying leftie, I’m all for strikes and better pay and conditions. I support the Bus Eireann strikes.

            But flash secondary picketing is wrong. It’s unfair. No notice, no opportunity to make other arrangements. How can you argue in favour of that? The people most affected are the most vulnerable and you know it.

          2. ahjayzis

            It also endangers workers rights in that it’s fuel in the fire of the right’s attack on union rights. There’s literally no upside to it. PLEASE tell me the upside to shutting down operations unrelated to the dispute.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            Strikes are supposed to inconvenience the public. The public are supposed to pressure management in response. Mentioning cancer patients is just guilt tripping; blatant emotional manipulation. Calling yourself a card carrying leftie doesn’t really cut it, especially when you consider things you’ve said about rural people and travellers in the past. Punching down is not beyond you.

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            “It also endangers workers rights in that it’s fuel in the fire of the right’s attack on union rights.”

            So ‘play nice or the right wing will punish you’? Fupp off.

          5. Medium Sized C

            Spot on here.
            It undermines the whole industrial action process.
            Dublin Bus had their strike and agreed on a package to return to work, their right to do that work was taken away without consultation, by an unrelated dispute, with no prior warning.

            One dude was standing outside the Ringsend depot with a sign saying “one out, all out”. Who asked the workers he was obstructing if they agreed with that?

          6. Medium Sized C

            The stated goal of inconveniencing the public does not absolve the requirement to warn the public.

            ahjaysus is correct here.
            If you deprive people of public transport without warning, you deprive them of the opportunity to make alternative plans.
            The results involve preventing people access essential ambulatory health care with no prior warning. Some of those people have cancer.
            Or preventing children who depend of public transport access to school with no prior warning.
            Or preventing people who depend on public transport the ability to go to work with no prior warning.

            There is nothing low about illustrating what an absolute di*k move this was on the part of the strikers.

          7. ahjayzis

            I genuinely read my friend say he’d missed his oncology appointment due to surprise secondary picketing. It wasn’t some rhetorical quip. You’re literally saying to button up and ignore what I read because it’s somehow for the greater good.

            The actual union is speaking out against it, but whatever, I’m sorry I upset you.

          8. MoyestWithExcitement

            So direct your anger at the people at the top, not the people at the bottom that they’re shafting. You rely on the bus? You don’t care that the man driving it is paid a fair wage? If the Irish people could just, for a change, stop being so god damned selfish and looked out for others, none of us might need to strike in future.

          9. ahjayzis

            THE GENERAL SECRETARY of the National Bus and Rail Union, Dermot O’Leary, has said that the union did not orchestrate the pickets that are causing massive disruption to Irish Rail and Dublin Bus services this morning… “I don’t condone this,” he added before suggesting that he hoped the picketers and the rail and Dublin bus workers see some “sense” in the next few hours.
            “I can tell you categorically the only dispute I have is the official dispute with Bus Éireann,” O’Leary said.

            That right-wing stooge / class traitor / faacist.

          10. MoyestWithExcitement

            “I genuinely read my friend say he’d missed his oncology appointment”

            That’s a pity. Cars are a thing though.

            “You’re literally saying to button up and ignore what I read because it’s somehow for the greater good.”

            No, I’m saying you’re being really manipulative in choosing to mention that. Your friend was inconvenienced. Strikes that don’t inconvenience people aren’t much good. Yoyr friend also could have cycled, drove, taken a taxi or asked a friend for a lift.

          11. MoyestWithExcitement

            “I don’t condone this,” he added before suggesting that he hoped the picketers and the rail and Dublin bus workers see some “sense” in the next few hours.
            “I can tell you categorically the only dispute I have is the official dispute with Bus Éireann,”

            Well that viscious put down has really made me reasses things.

          12. ahjayzis

            I’ll repeat this because you don’t seem to get it.

            All of that is FINE. With N-O-T-I-C-E.

          13. ahjayzis

            How is it manipulative? Define it for me. Workers are defying their union, staging a surprise secondary strike, without notice. I point to a real-world consequence of a rogue action condemned by the same union and I’m being manipulative?

          14. Medium Sized C

            “That’s a pity. Cars are a thing though.”

            Not everyone has access to a car at no notice.
            Most hospitals don’t have much parking.

            You probably shouldn’t have berated ahjaysiz for “punching down” if you were gonna say things like that.

          15. MoyestWithExcitement

            “How is it manipulative? Define it for me.”

            I already said it’s guilt tripping. I assume you don’t need it explained how guilt tripping is manipulative.

          16. ahjayzis

            Well that viscious put down has really made me reasses things.

            “LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA”
            -Moyest

          17. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Not everyone has access to a car at no notice.”

            Not everyone has access to an alternative source of €200 a week they rely on to house and feed their children. (When in Rome)

          18. ahjayzis

            “I already said it’s guilt tripping. I assume you don’t need it explained how guilt tripping is manipulative.”

            Ah I get it now. So it’s not legitimate in an argument to highlight the consequences of one sides actions. The actions themselves must be considered as an absolute (as a pure good, no doubt) and no negative consequence must be addressed. Because that’s manipulation. That’s fair.

            And when the union leader condemns it, unless he’s ‘vicious’ enough for Moyest, he’s not really relevant and also cannot be entered into argument.

            Can you not see how much of a hole you’re digging here? Real world consequences cannot be discussed. The comments of the leader of the strike must not be discussed.
            You’re inviting people to agree with you or fupp off, essentially.

          19. ahjayzis

            “Not everyone has access to an alternative source of €200 a week they rely on to house and feed their children. (When in Rome)”

            That’s manipulative. I rule it out of order. We’re discussing the strike. NOT the causes of it, or the consequences of it. CONTEXT IS NOT ALLOWED.

          20. Medium Sized C

            I flat guarantee that there are people out of €200 euro today as a result of this secondary strike.

            I’m not questioning their right to strike, I’m questioning their right to force their strike on other workers, to endanger the day to day lives people who are dependant on other services and to maximise that endangerment by giving no notice.

            The people who are most affected by this aren’t Fat Cats with Top Hats, they are ordinary vulnerable people.

            “Cars are a thing.”…. Marie Antoinette ass b*llsh1t

          21. Happy Molloy

            And all this because ahjayzis mentioned, in a casual comments section populated by people on their phones, that the strike had a detrimental effect on a sick friend.

          22. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Ah I get it now. So it’s not legitimate in an argument to highlight the consequences of one sides actions.”

            Sure, that’s what I said. You’re just standing up for what is right, you hero. http://explosm.net/comics/1559/

            “And when the union leader condemns it,”

            ‘See? See? A *union* leader agrees with me so you’re wrong. Also, he didn’t condemn it. He said he didn’t condone it. When you have to tell white lies about someone agreeing with you to validate your position, you have a weak position.

            “You’re inviting people to agree with you or fupp off,”

            This is not about me.

          23. MoyestWithExcitement

            “That’s manipulative.”

            Yep. See where I said when in Rome? If you can make out the drivers are hurting sick people, I can talk about you not caring about their children.

          24. MoyestWithExcitement

            “I’m questioning their right to force their strike on other workers”

            Why aren’t you questioning the right of management to gut their wages? You’re just entitled to a bus service and screw the workers delivering it, right? Who cares about their children, yeah?

          25. ahjayzis

            Happy Molloy has a point. I’m wasting my time debating an out and out zealot over a casual comment I made. There’s no point talking to someone who only deals in absolutes.

            Good day Moyest.

          26. MoyestWithExcitement

            Again, you just want to claim the moral highground because you have no argument. Just personal attacks. You’re right. Pointless.

          27. ahjayzis

            Moyest, you’ve made zero arguments, you’ve just propounded abstract ideology. I’ve made several. I think people can see that and judge for themselves. Have a nice day ;)

          28. ahjayzis

            No, Moyest. I’m saying whether or not they agree with me they’ll find I made arguments – you preached gospel. That is all.

          29. MoyestWithExcitement

            ‘This is a Bad Thing because my friend was inconvenienced…and *he* has cancer.’ isn’t an argument but sure, if imagined validation from onlookers is what gets you up in the morning, who am I to judge?

          1. ahjayzis

            It was that or wish cancer on him. Which I wouldn’t do :)

            I don’t think the snide-gland is susceptible anyway.

        1. Medium Sized C

          I take it you have never had to have treatment for a serious medical condition in the public health service.

          Reply
          1. francis

            I live with cancer everyday. I’ll live with cancer for the rest of my life. rearranging appointments is not a big deal. i do it all the time. I never blame semi state organisations. I tend to just get on with things

  2. dav

    Fair play to them, the Dublin centric media was ignoring the strike because it only really effected people living outside of Dublin. Now this will soften their cough.

    Reply
    1. Owen

      Fair play to them?? Give over. Holding a city ransom to their demands with an unannounced strike. I had little sympathy for their over paid wages being cut, but now I am 100% against the unions. They left the negotiating table where a public body is loosing 50k a day (madness to begin with) and now punish the public.

      Unions are well past their purpose in life. Get rid of them.

      Reply
        1. Owen

          Yes, agreed.

          But his comment related to the Dublin centric media having their ‘cough softened’ – by being held hostage. I suspect the cough will get louder. I hope the people and the public purse hold out and let the fuppers strike for months.

          Reply
        1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

          Weren’t they? What were they then?
          If they weren’t union, why did the drivers not just cross the picket?

          I know nothing about unions, obviously. Well, I did watch Billy Elliot.

          Reply
        2. Owen

          Do you actually believe that, that this massive strike across rail and bus is cause the lads decided today not to cross the pickets?

          Even NBRU General Secretary said that no unions were involved in organising the secondary pickets but “obviously someone did” – sounds like the Unions were involved to me….. even he admits it.

          Reply
          1. Medium Sized C

            Yes.
            I believe some group went rogue from what I know right now.

            I mean if you are being really pedantic, you are free to hold whatever opinion you like, maybe you consider a union to be any crowd of lads who want to do something.

            But calling for an end to the NBRU because of something they didn’t do is wrong.
            NBRU balloted Bus Eireann workers and the workers voted for action.
            The Dublin Bus and Iarnród eireann didn’t, to the best of my knowledge, vote to strike in sympathy. They were effectively locked out by a rogue acton.

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        “Unions are well past their purpose in life. Get rid of them.”

        Right wing ideologue doesn’t like workers standing up for themselves and thinks they should stop altogether. Madness.

        Reply
        1. Owen

          Standing up for themselves!? They are standing up for a separate company so that their own (much smaller) company can get their way despite economic loss.

          Fupp off with your “doesn’t like workers standing up for themselves”. I like intelligent solutions to resolving problems rather then small minded childishness.

          Reply
          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            Because you’re rants about unions not being needed is an “intelligent solution” is it? Get over yourself. Your whole angle is small minded childishness. Workers are standing up for themselves but it affects YOU so now what they’re doing is a problem for society. You’re just throwing a selfish, childish tantrum.

          2. Anomanomanom

            In fairness I agree with him about the union’s. They are slowly trying to get back to Bertie days were they effectively became defecto members of government. Its basically a case of not caring the company is going arse up but still expecting to keep all the pay and perks. Im all for union’s if they are helping better the workers conditions, I’m not for keeping them at level that is killing they company.

      1. Owen

        by do his job do you mean take out a cheque book and use it to fix the crack? Or do you mean looking at the long term economic viability of a service?

        Cause one of those two was happening till the unions threw the toys out.

        Reply
          1. martco

            is your position to expect a public service to turn a profit? and to be viable financially like my or your private enterprises? I’ve read many of your comments in the past and I know you’re a smart cookie so the answer is no to both of those items practically. I’m accepting that a portion of tax take is going into a public service, like hospitals for say a greater good. So I’m happy for Ross to get a chequebook out to keep services running. Also do I think that workers should fight for their rights? Yes I do. So getting to the core, is it that old chestnut here, that we perceive a bus driver to be less entitled to earn a fair wage than say a doctor? (ah shure any eejit can drive a bus therefore let’s put them on zero hour contracts and minimum wage?) the Ryanair model doesn’t work for everything. and it won’t for this. and this dispute will eventually get resolved like every other one before it and 10 years from now. Ross will get his chequebook out, probably in some face saving circuitous route, but he will. and politicians and trade unions will carry on until the next bump. Don’t waste your energy…just have the best day you can in this nice sunshine!

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            So WE own Bus Eireann and WE have appointed Ross to look after it so he needs to do that.

          3. Vote Rep #1

            I am curious, does it being a public service mean that it has to be run as inefficiently as possible?

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          “Cause one of those two was happening till the unions threw the toys out.”

          Yeah? Which one was happening? The neoliberal idiots in government gutting public services? Yeah, that’s been happening a while now. But you go on blaming workers. That makes you look really smart.

          Reply
          1. Anomanomanom

            So what do want, is it the “good old” days of unions demanding things the minister bending over and shitting out money. Thats what happened under Bertie, which is why the rates and perks in most public services are effectively bankrupting the companies. The unions want to keep all the stuff that was thrown at them 15/20 years ago when its simply not affordable anymire.

          2. dan

            Ah but there’s only the choice of completely ditching it, or it being utterly corrupt. Just those, nothing else.

        2. Kieran Nice Young Chap

          + another 1

          Some of the routes as well are opened up to competition so the government *can’t* just throw money at it – that would be illegal state aid.

          Reply
    2. ahjayzis

      At least the peasants can have their sister-wives drive them to work on their tractor or donkey. In civilisation we’re more used to our modern conveniences like busses and sanitation.

      Reply
      1. Vote Rep #1

        Thats what I thought. I mean, I’ve been reading about it in the paper. Maybe dav needs to just read one?

        Reply
  3. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

    I was very annoyed at all the Bus Strike Cyclists this morning. Hindered my cycle in with their freewheeling and zig-zagging.
    SIGH.

    Reply
  4. Kolmo

    Nobody wants to strike, nobody wants to cause disruption but all this talk of over-paid drivers is nonsense, the privateers want to reduce wages and conditions of employment to the rates that the private companies are paying their (in a lot of cases) less well informed non-native drivers – it’s a policy of cheapening the value of labour and expecting the same results. I am all for efficiencies and modernisation etc, but people need to protect a living wage – especially in a relatively poorly managed country where the costs of living are extremely high.
    It’s all grand being a thatcherite snark until they come for your job.

    Yes – I was thoroughly discommoded for my 40km commute this morning.

    Reply
    1. Owen

      1. What is that wage?
      2. What is it being reduced to?
      3. What are the changes in benefits?
      4. What was tabled as a change to the above in the negotiations before the unions walked out?

      Without the above we can only speculate on how it effects individuals.

      However, what we do know is that a service is not sustainable in its current form so a change has to come. Walking away from the table is not the answer, and asking ‘the lads’ to join you is a standard union approach to getting their way.

      Reply
      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        You’re right, workers should do what they’re told amd just take whatever scraps they’re given. Self respect is only for millionaires.

        Reply
  5. Listrade

    ” private companies are paying their (in a lot of cases) less well informed non-native drivers ”

    Well you had the bones of a decent argument until you decided the nationality of the driver was something to beat the private companies with.

    Reply
  6. rob

    Not going to take any sides here, because both views are valid, but have a few questions:

    Is there not an obligation on the State to provide public transport, even if it is not profitable and that any shortfall be subsidised by the public purse? Is public transport not an essential service funded by the taxpayer?

    Reply
    1. Happy Molloy

      Yes would be my answer to both, but it is not going to be something that is documented anywhere.

      It’s definitely one of the biggest, if not the biggest challenge for a 21st century Irish government; how to tackle the gross inefficiency of state services without privatisation.

      Reply
      1. ahjayzis

        I’m not sold on the idea that they’re all that inefficient. The level of state subsidy to public transport is really low in Ireland compared to other EU countries, especially considering our diffuse population thanks to awful planning and allowing any hick to build any fugly bungalow in any remote field, but the service isn’t the worst I’ve ever used.

        Reply
        1. Happy Molloy

          Fair enough, I actually know nothing on the facts of this strike as I haven’t been keeping up with the news, mine was more of a general point thinking about the likes of the HSE

          Reply
    2. Vote Rep #1

      There is an obligation and it defiantly should not be run to make a profit. It should be run to be as service that benefits the people who use it. At the same time, it should not be allowed to be run as inefficiently as it is while being a pretty poor service in many cases. Something has to give and reform is needed but I can’t see it happening with way unions in CIE seem to be and with FG & Ross in power. Its like two walls trying to walk through each other.

      Reply
    3. Medium Sized C

      I don’t believe there is an obligation on the state to provide transport.

      I’m not sure what you mean by essential.
      It is essential in that it would be so destructive to the economy if there were not publically available modes of transport. But we could all survive with almost entirely private services, albeit it would be unrealistic in the short term.

      I personally agree with the semi-state body approach, such as it was and only sort of is now.
      I think public transport is enormously beneficial to people, my life is better because I use relatively reliable public transport. But that doesn’t oblige anybody to supply it.

      Reply
      1. rob

        sorry for being unclear what I meant by essential was an essential service, similar to water, electricity, gas, education, health etc

        thanks also for the replies and views – very interesting.

        Reply
        1. rob

          My own view is that it is an essential public service that should not necessarily be run as a profit-making business. That said, it should be run as an efficient service, but needs more thought and planning put into it.

          But what Dublin really needs is an underground system, which allows the public to cross the city quickly, efficiently and without any disruption, like any other medium to large European city.

          I would also agree with the point made that the system we have in place is efficient under normal circumstances.

          Also, the Luas is an excellent service (privately operated of course, but still!)

          Reply
          1. Medium Sized C

            I don’t think we are big enough to justify an underground.
            We are quite small.

            Also, we don’t have tonnes of money to spend on transport at the moment.
            Which is kind of the problem here.

          2. rob

            don’t think we are big enough to justify an underground.
            We are quite small. – yes, but there are other small countries in Europe with similar populations and far better transport systems. Also, we have a huge number of tourists every year – 8 million – so they would also use an enhanced service

            Also, we don’t have tonnes of money to spend on transport at the moment.
            Which is kind of the problem here. – yes I agree, we need to invest far more in transport

    4. DavidT

      Giving away the easy, profitable routes is not a good starting point.

      Ireland is too small a country and population to privatise many services.

      Reply
  7. Kolmo

    They were hired because they were happy to accept a lower rate of pay because they were probably not fully informed as to the lay of the land due to them being new (and welcome) in the country. I have a number of associates who are Czech and Polish – they had to employ an Irish person to ring people that owed them money for building works carried out as they shamefully and repeatedly kept getting ripped-off by clients (all of them Irish) – solely because of the ‘weakened’ position of being foreign and the business perception that they can’t do anything about it. It’s a mortifying fact.

    Reply
    1. Vote Rep #1

      My mate is a plumber and he is constantly getting shafted and he is Irish. Its not the lads being foreign, its just people are dicks. He has to spend half his day chasing people who demanded he do the work immediately.

      Reply
      1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

        People really are dicks. It constantly astounds me how little regard people have for others.
        Not me, obv.

        Reply
  8. Liam Deliverance

    Normally I’d support any worker that feels the need to strike to get better conditions for themselves and that includes BE and their current strike but what happened this morning is a disgrace and whoever organised it should be removed. I see it as a move of pure greed on the part of DB who are hoping they can get in on some wage increases on the back of the BE strike. If DB want to strike, that’s fine as long as they are upfront about and give a reasonable warning so that their customers can make alternative arrangements but landing people in the sh1te like they did today is not the right way to go about it. So best of luck lads and ladies of DB, I’m going to make other plans to get to work from now on that don’t involve ye. You wanted to make an impact of some sort, well done, you did, lets see now what the outcome of your impact will be. As for Shane Ross, another waste of space dumbass, Eamon Gilmore Mark II.

    Reply
    1. Medium Sized C

      Bus Eireann workers picketed Dublin Bus depots this morning.
      This was not an action by Dublin Bus.

      Like, read even ONE article on this.
      Read the post above for god sake.

      Reply
      1. Liam Deliverance

        Ok right, DB had no idea it was going to happen then? Why is BE picketing DB depots? Read between the lines C.

        Reply
  9. trig

    Private operators like Wexford Bus are thriving because they don’t have any problems asking drivers to do basic tasks like checking the tires before a trip as opposed to the union “not my job” response, they run efficiently and on time.

    Hope Bus Eireann go to the wall and restructure the whole lot, unions are really under pressure now, they’ve gone for the full bluff.

    Reply
    1. Rugbyfan

      correct, the attitude of some unions of this county are as responsible for holding it back as much as the Catholic church!

      Reply

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