‘Stop Annoying Everybody Who Actually Works For A Living’

at | 130 Replies

From top: Bank of Ireland ad and Newstalk’s George Hook

Readers may recall how Bank of Ireland tweeted an ad about how a woman, called Orla, and her boyfriend moved back home with their parents in order to save for a mortgage deposit.

The ad was subsequently withdrawn.

Further to this…

This afternoon.

On Newstalk’s High Noon show, George Hook said:

“What do you think about this famous Bank of Ireland ad. I just heard on the news there…the Bank of Ireland are apologising, apologising for what?

“Have you been living on Mars or something for the last 24 hours, you may not have heard. Bank of Ireland put out an ad featuring a real-life person who’s going to go back and live with the parents while she saved for a deposit for a house.

“And they’re all outraged. All that Twitterati are outraged. Outraged about what?

“Like it’s been difficult to buy a house forever. It was difficult for my generation, for my children’s generation, it was difficult for everybody. Of course, I mean, of course people move back and live with the parents in an effort to save money.

On this morning’s [Irish] Independent there’s a woman who’s actually not eating because she’s saving for a deposit because she’s going to lose the place she’s renting at the moment and the rental deposit in the next place is going to be a lot of money and she literally is not eating to put the amount of money together.

“It is a fact of life that people who have to raise a deposit or pay a mortgage or pay rent make special effort but this whinging generation who has no other way talk about, except on Twitter, this whinging generation cannot face the stress of a university examination without stroking a dog to keep him calm.

What are ya going on about? How are you ever going to survive in a world which is full of challenges which every day you face a challenge in your home life, in your social life, in your work life, in your sporting life.

“Every day, life is a challenge. And if you think you’re going to be mollycoddled for the rest of your life, then you have another thing coming. And the Bank of Ireland, the bank that I banked with since I had my first bank account in 1961, why oh why did it cave in to this sort of claptrap?

“Either the story was valid or it’s not valid. I mean there was an Irish woman who was head of the British marketing board and she said only 50% of advertising works, the trick is which 50%. So, of course, you do some advertising, it’s not great; sometimes it’s super.

“So when the fella at Avis came up with the idea ‘Avis tried harder‘, because they were number two to Hertz and, it’s an absolutely brilliant piece of advertising which I think exists to this day.

“We were all buying pints of stout because somebody said ‘Guinness is good for you’. Ok, the Bank of Ireland fella didn’t get it quite right but all you whingers just shut up, will ya? And stop, not just annoying me, because it’s easy to annoy grumpy old George, but annoying everybody, everybody who actually works for a living, saves for a house and goes through all the kinds of things that adults have to do.

“All us adults are teed off with you kids who are aged between 20 and 40.”

Listen back here

130 thoughts on “‘Stop Annoying Everybody Who Actually Works For A Living’

  1. Harry Molloy

    I don’t get this one, banks need to be kept on a short leash and reprimanded frequently but this ad is pretty bloody inoffensive and is something that a huge proportion of people do and have always done.

    Except when we could get 100% mortgages which is maybe what people want again?

    Reply
      1. Owen C

        People seem annoyed that BOI was able to both identify a problem (we need to save money to buy a house and its difficult) and suggest a solution (move back in with your folks and save your largest outgoing expenditure). Outrageous people will always find a way to be outraged.

        Reply
        1. ivan

          On the one hand, I think the outrage is completely over the top.

          However, as a solution it ONLY works in a situation where Mummy and Daddy live in the place (or within a commutable distance) of the place you both work in.

          As Harry implies, if every culchie starts dating a Dub*, it might work out OK; it’s *a* solution for some people in a particular set of circumstances. It’s not *the* solution.

          (*other city natives are available)

          Reply
          1. Owen C

            “However, as a solution it ONLY works in a situation where Mummy and Daddy live in the place (or within a commutable distance) of the place you both work in.”

            Agreed. So its only a solution for the probably 750k people who live in Dublin or the Dublin suburbs and are originally from Dublin or the Dublin suburbs.

          2. ivan

            I don’t know the numbers, Owen but here’s a list of places where Bank of Ireland offer Saturday opening to deal with mortgage queries https://personalbanking.bankofireland.com/ways-to-bank/branch-banking/saturday-morning-opening-hours/ and that tells you a lot about where the economic activity is happening and where the jobs are. So whilst you might be right with the numbers of Dubs (for want of a more sweeping generalization) a corollary of what I’ve posted is that there are a lot of folk *not* from Dublin living there who don’t have that option.

            Like it’s quite obvious the pattern of what’s happening; kids are born all over the country, go to school, go to college, with a bit of luck find a job and then move to a city. There are a lot of those people; they DON’T have the mom’n’pop option.

            As I say, I’ve no difficulty with people having to make sacrifices to get an outcome they want; right now I’ve not had a biscuit in 3 months because I don’t like the paunch i’ve grown.

        2. Nigel

          I think people are annoyed at seeing it formalised as a bank-approved strategy. It’s s sign of a new reality solidifying around deeply dysfunctional property and rental markets. Just because it manifests as lashing out at something trivial as an ad doesn’t mean the anger and helplessnness and fear (growing homeless crisis remember) aren’t real. Does Hook do mental health related activism? If so shouldn’t he be aware of how genuine but repressed emotions can be suddenly directed at apparently trivial or irrelevant things?

          Reply
          1. scottser

            blustering gobdaw that he is, hook has a long history of mental health advocacy and championing suicide prevention after his own suicidal experiences.

          2. Nigel

            That’s what I thought. But he can’t apply anything he learned there to a group of people who are experiencing strong negative emotions such as stress, fear, anxiety and anger over their housing and accommodation situations? This is an appropriate response? Berating them on the national airwaves? Feck’s sake, this is downright irresponsible.

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        I’m convinced there’s a link between autism and conservatism. How can these people so consistently show such little understanding of problems other people experience?

        Reply
        1. anne

          There’s something wrong with George Hook all right… he’s somewhere on the ars* hole spectrum.

          Fupping class A fool. Even his missus can barely stand him shur.. that was pretty obvious when they were both on the Late Late.

          Reply
    1. Clampers Outside!

      Nigel….. really…. they all have mental health problems, those who are flipping out. And George should be wary of this?.. is that your line?

      Maybe the world should stop advertising cars for fear it triggers someone who was hit by one.

      Reply
  2. Eamonn Clancy

    The add was aimed at a particular audience, so what? BoI should have come back with another add. If only there was half the outrage over the homeless.

    Reply
  3. Loocyloo

    For crying out loud. I moved home for 18 months to get the rest of my deposit together. It sucked, but I did it. And I scrimped and saved for the five years before that to save my deposit so I could buy a place of my own and have some money left over to do it up – paint it and buy some furniture.
    Why is this add offensive?!! If you want something, sometimes you have to make sacrifices.

    Reply
    1. Brother Barnabas

      Were you one of those fyckers who didn’t buy a round for 10 years? “Uhhh, it’s just that I’m saving”

      Reply
    2. BobbyJ

      I guess it might be the fact that not everyone can move back home to save for a deposit? Professional in Dublin but family home in Donegal, Mayo, Clare, etc.

      A deposit for a house will always take considerable sacrifice but we can surely develop an affordable housing market that does not expect adults to move back in with Mum and Dad in order to get a mortgage.

      Reply
      1. Harry Molloy

        That’s very crap alright and one of the many disadvantages of coming from the sticks, the ability to complete professional training contracts being another one which peed me right off.

        But you can do what I done and marry a bleedin’ Dub! (May God forgive me)

        Reply
        1. ahjayzis

          OR we could stop inflating the housing market. The state pays 30% of all private rents in this country, that incentivises private landlords, it ads pressure to the market and the prices. Whereas a state that builds it’s own social housing effectively removes lower income people from the market and provides a counterbalance, and then turns a profit on it’s social rents.

          Let’s try what’s worked before before redefining your early thirties as your second late teens.

          Reply
          1. Owen C

            If a house is 400k, you have to save 40k. If a house is 200k, you have to save 20k. Either way, you are having to save a significant amount of money to buy a house, inflation, overpricing or not.

          2. ahjayzis

            When rent is rising 15% a year and the average rent in Dublin is close to 2k a month, it’s harder to save anything at all, whether it’s toward 20k or 40k.

            If we stop paying the private landlords to cover social housing, pitting social tenants against private tenants, and provide decent, secure social housing through the local authorities or housing agencies, we stop having private tenants competing with the state for them and driving up prices. The state charges a social rent, that’s a better deal for everyone than the state paying the market rent it’s helping to push up.

            Irish Times Inside Politics has a really good podcast out this week on this very point.

          3. Andrew

            I concur. Normalising overpriced housing and comparing to ‘sacrifices’ made by previous generations isn’t good enough. high priced accommodation costs drains money fro the real economy.

          4. ahjayzis

            It’s also just fooling ourselves. There is no market solution to social housing, we don’t have a market for it. if you leave it to the market you have slums, tenements or trailer parks. We fool ourselves and spend billions paying off private landlords pushing the price up for everyone else, pretending it’s some kind of commerce activity, when really we’re throwing money at the rich we could use to build houses that’ll pay for themselves.

    3. Nigel

      Since they probably have a better idea of the realities and sacrifices than Hook, I expect they just have a limit for how much they’ll tolerate being patronised by bank ads.

      Reply
    4. ahjayzis

      That’s a fantastic system! There’s the minor downside for people with parents living 100’s of miles from their place of work, or parents who aren’t up for their three kids in their late 20’s moving back in with partners, or parents who’ve moved abroad, but fupp them, the system is sustainable!

      Reply
  4. Boomskidaboom

    He is bang on with this. Mollycoddled to bits and want everything to be perfect in life for them. Not how it works kiddies!

    Reply
    1. Jimi

      Totally agree, its typical of this generation to expect things handed to them, free education, jobs, reasonable afforable housing market,

      Who do they think they are?
      Your generation?…cheek of em’

      Reply
    2. ahjayzis

      Oh just die off already.

      Bought your house for ten grand, sent kids to uni for free, completely unsackable from your job, retire on defined benefit final salary pension.

      Reply
      1. Rob_G

        He also probably paid close to 20% interest on his mortgage, paid 65% top rate tax, and lived and worked in an Ireland where they had mass unemployment and emigration, a prolonged terror campaign, and where they would have laughed if you had have told them that Ireland would become one of the richest countries in the world one day.

        Every generation has its problems, we aren’t unique.

        Reply
        1. Nigel

          Perhaps admonitions to empathise with generational problems should be targeted at those scoffing at the generation experiencing the current set?

          Reply
        2. ahjayzis

          Has any generation been so traduced as the ‘millenials’?

          We’re the ones treated as unique “snowflakes” by the old fupps who ruined the country and burned the drawbridge on pensions and concepts of job security.

          Reply
          1. Rob_G

            Old people always give out about young people, that’s just the way it is. I hate the expression ‘snowflake’, but your contention that young people in 2017 somehow have it worse than people had it in land of milk and honey that was Ireland in the 70s and 80s is one of the more snowflakey things I have read today.

        3. Andrew

          It took one income to buy a home. There really is no comparison and previous generations have benefitted hugely from price inflation. Many have dipped their toes in property investment actively outbidding young people trying to buy a home.

          Reply
          1. Rob_G

            One of the reasons it took only one income to buy a home was that there was much less participation in the workforce among women. So, this was good if you were buying a house, but would suck if you were a woman who wanted to continue working after she got married.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            “One of the reasons it took only one income to buy a home was that there was much less participation in the workforce among women”

            Homes cost less because women didn’t work. Ok then.

          3. Owen C

            “Homes cost less because women didn’t work. Ok then”

            Eh, yes, that’s a basic element of GDP growth, household income growth and the subsequent increase in property prices. This is economics 101. Class dunce again Moyesty, well done.

          4. Rob_G

            Indeed yes, Moyest.

            If there are now two people with two salaries trying to buy houses, as opposed to two people with one salary, there will be upward pressure on house prices. Would you like me to draw you a diagram with some crayons, perhaps?

        4. Benz

          Y’know Dublin was a pretty dismal and dull place in the 70’s and 80’s. Mass every Sunday and sex education from no less than Father Michael Cleary. Oh, and mass emigration. I’d take now over then any day.

          Speak to anyone who bought a house in the 70’s (18% interest rates!!) or the 80’s and it took years of saving then too.

          Reply
      2. Boomskidaboom

        Not as old as you think, hopefully will live for another 40 years. Bought our place at the height of it, have my own personal pension and I work for myself with 3 kids in school. None of that fits in with any of your assumptions though, does it?

        Reply
  5. The Ghost of Starina

    A) George barely works for a living

    B) In one breath he’s talking about a woman starving herself to death to save for a deposit and in the next he’s telling us we’re all soft? Which is it, you spoiled old gouger?

    Reply
  6. Co C.

    I’m more annoyed by AIB’s ads which basically say:
    “It’s almost impossible to get a mortgage these days, but these smug feckers have their mortgage paid off now. So there you go”

    Reply
      1. LW

        You spend a significant amount of time on here complaining about obscure tweets by American academics, I don’t think you’re the best example of getting on with life

        Reply
  7. RT

    This rant against millennials has a distinct lack of avocados…..

    Banked with BOI since 1961? Someone’s not very financially literate about switching. Perhaps Bonkers.ie or Switcher.ie could help Georgie out

    Reply
  8. ahjayzis

    Please don’t start doing this BS.

    Newstalk and Hook have taken a conscious decision to ape shock jocks in the UK like Nick Ferrari or Julia Hartley Brewer on LBC. For exactly this kind of response. Don’t give Dinny and FGFM their free advertisement.

    As for Hook, I hope the gout drives him mad. Odious melt.

    Reply
    1. LW

      It’s textbook stuff, take a contrarian outraged position, lambaste everyone who disagrees with you, sit back and watch the engagement rocket

      Reply
    2. Robert Power

      Bang on, repeat of the US model too. Divisive shock jocks are great for all kinds of synergous business enterprises. Unfortunately, it’s proliferation in media can end up being a contributory factor in having a pussy grabbing egomaniac for a leader. Hook et al will consistently lambaste progressive ideas but more than that, they will find a way to group them all, and those who might be interested in them, essentially dissuading his listeners from ever being considerate of any progressive position.

      Reply
        1. anne

          he’s another one way up on the ars e hole spectrum.. can’t stand that clown. He’s a head on him for radio too..

          Reply
  9. Aisling

    Not everyone has the option of moving home, I don’t, my husband doesn’t and I know a few friends who couldn’t either. Nor would everyone’s family would accept them rent free which, or low it enough for it to be a viable option. While for some the commute from work would be too extreme/ unreliable for it to work. It’s all well a good to say that I could do it so you can too, but that approach doesn’t actually help anyone.

    Besides that, why is this an add? Like why are they pointing our something so obvious to people? Yeah, presumably most people can move back home and save but that’s not the answer to rising house prices or rents.
    Nor does it make me go, ‘Must bank with Bank of Ireland, they are great at pointing out the obvious so they must be a good bank’

    Reply
    1. Rob_G

      I don’t think that you will find many people claiming that it was a good ad; more that the outraged reaction to it was a bit over the top.

      Reply
    2. Harry Molloy

      I don’t think the ad suggested that everyone has that option or should do this.

      it was a case study and incredibly easy to ignore.

      Reply
    3. Loocyloo

      My point was that I made sacrifices. It wasn’t very pleasant, but I did it.
      There are other sacrifices that can be made aside from moving home; cutting back on spending is a pain as everyone likes treats, even if it’s just a daily latte or the cinema or whatever. But cutting right back and shopping around really does help to fatten your bank balance. I know from experience. It’s hard as fupp, but it paid off.

      Reply
      1. ahjayzis

        It’s hard as fupp, I know, I’m doing it now. But there’s no call for some kind of stiff upper lip attitude to it. It’s not just a fact of life.

        There’s a tax dividend in leaving your land undeveloped and selling up in seven years, and no penalty. The government is pushing prices up on purpose, it’s important not to normalise this crap situation as a fact of life, it’s government policy to drive house prices through the roof and we’re all living with the consequences, from rent squeeze, to the inability to assemble a deposit while still being an adult, to a homelessness epidemic.

        Reply
    4. Clampers Outside!

      Not all ads are intended to appeal to everyone in the market.

      This is clearly a pitch to those with that option of moving home, and the bank is looking for a share of that market where people do have that option.

      Reply
      1. anne

        How about an ad to move out of your rented accommodation and buy a van and put a mattress in the back? wash in the gym..eat beans..shur we all need to make sacrifices. It might appeal to someone.

        Grown ass adults living with their parents is not the answer to the housing crisis.

        Reply
  10. postmanpat

    George Hook. A man who proudly proclaims he lost his virginity at 27 years old, and thinks the sooner you start having sex the sooner you go off it around ten years later.(???) But back to the point. Georges generation could get a mortgage on a single income. raise 3 or 4 kids ,flirt with alcoholism, drink and drive on 5 pints legally, screw up with bad investments yet still have a real house built with real materials by non sociopath developers off in 25 years and still drop tens of thousands of a couple of daughters weddings. Retire at around 60 years old and have your property worth 10 to 20 times what you paid for It. Yeah, you had it real hard babyboomers!

    Reply
    1. Owen C

      George almost killed himself due to his financial problems around 20 years ago. ‘Buying’ stuff on hire purchase and then immediately selling it for cash to raise some money. Was down on the pier in Dun Laoighaire (i think), about to throw himself off into the water. But yeah you’re right, he’s had an easy life.

      Reply
      1. postmanpat

        Guess he screwed over his creditors then, because he is still here and fat as ever. Where did you hear that story anyway?

        Reply
        1. A snowflake's chance in hell

          He used to tell it practically every day on his evening show

          People would ring or text in with their own similar stories and suicidal thoughts and he would personally to to meet them after his show to help them with their issues and/or insist they contact him directly.

          Reply
          1. Rob_G

            Wow, I had always had him down as a cantakerous old malcontent. But it seems he is a much better person than postmanpat could ever be, anyway.

          1. postmanpat

            Jazus! He sounds like your textbook thoroughly repressed homosexual to me. He could have easily been a priest in a former life. No wonder he was suicidal. This country really did a number on auld lads like him. I kind of feel sorry for him now.

          2. Rob_G

            “He sounds like your textbook thoroughly repressed homosexual to me”

            I think you might be projecting a bit here…

  11. Burnt Cheese

    Ah the old “why in my day it was worse” argument.

    Remember, in your day we used to send children up chimneys to clean them, but we don’t do that any more.

    Reply
  12. Wedduck

    Deposits these days are equal the mortgages of the past. I needed 5k, would be 6k or so in euros, for a deposit. My son would need between 30 to 50k.

    Reply
    1. Owen C

      Average earnings these days = mortgages of the past. Not sure what the relevance is. Size of mortgages vs average persons earnings has increased over the last 20 years, but we also have much more dual income households so its not necessarily less affordable for a couple to buy a house now vs then. Interest rates and tax lower now than then. Big issue now is simply that you need 10-20% deposits vs 0-10% previously, and cost of rent is higher (proportionately) now than then, so it makes saving for a deposit more difficult.

      Reply
    2. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

      You need to check the CPI, my dear person. Or whatever that thingy is where you compare the value of dosh from now with days of yore.

      Reply
  13. Clampers Outside!

    If looking for a mortgage and are outraged by this advert targeting a specific group of people in the market, then the advert was not aimed at you.

    Those tampon ads that look like sports commercials. I mean, ads are supposed to target ME, only ME and appeal to MY WANTS and MY NEEDS ! s/

    It’s a fupping ad and it’s NOT AIMED AT YOU if you don’t have the option to mover home.

    Reply
  14. gerry

    People are annoyed because the bank are promoting this. They are saying look this a good thing do this. How would George fee l about the woman not eating being in a bank ad? Instead of being annoyed and wanting things to be better George supports the government and wants people to put up with it. In 1989 it cost the equivalent of €70,000 to buy an average house in Dublin. That is an adjusted figure. Rents are also now far higher. It is objectively much harder to buy a house now than it was when George did. It is not millennials being snowflakes to point out this fact.

    Reply
    1. Cian

      What was the average wage in 1989?
      What was the interest rate in 1989? What were the monthly repayments on your 70k?

      Reply
          1. Cian

            sigh. in 1987 interest rates averaged 12.5% [http://www.moneyguideireland.com/history-of-mortgage-rates-in-ireland.html]
            Today you can get from 3% [http://www.moneyguideireland.com/best-mortgage-rates-in-ireland.html] but lets say 3.5%

            With these rates the repayments were twice as much in 1987 than today.
            a 100K mortgage over 20 years @12.5% is €1,136 per month
            a 100K mortgage over 20 years @3.5% is €579 per month

            Or to put it another way, you can borrow twice as much money for the same repayments. So by your figures above the 3.8 times income in 1987 cost MORE than 6 times today.

      1. Nigel

        But even if you didn’t have a job you could probably afford to rent, and if you did have a half-decent job you could definitely afford to rent and save for a deposit and whether you knew it or not you were headed into an era of unprecedented prosperity and low unemployment, but this is still beside the point since those problems are far away and these problems are really close and still quite large and very current.

        Reply
      2. gerry

        Where have you been for the past few years? We had high unemployment for quite a while before very recent recovery. It is currently very hard for someone with a job to buy a home. It was not in 1989.

        Reply
  15. darragh

    I don’t think people’s (well, sensible people at least) outrage is about having to save for a deposit & what goes along with that. It’s more the concern that this is an attempt by BOI to normalise elements of a severely dysfunctional property market that, like in Celtic Tiger times, makes the select few very, very rich at the expense of ordinary Irish citizens.

    I’d never claim that it was ever a cake-walk to save for a deposit, regardless of what generation you belong to, but without getting into a pissing contest of who had it tougher, I don’t think any generation previous had to deal with a housing crisis quite like this, nor with vulture funds, an severe lack of supply, opportunism on such a massive scale (http://jrnl.ie/3562441), all of which I think is contributing to and resulting in the current homelessness crisis.

    Reply
    1. darragh

      Anger at this ad, from my POV anyway, isn’t about the idea of having to move home to save. It’s more that it’s another possible indication that the government, the banking system & other stakeholders are 100% content to let the current situation (including mass homelessness) become the norm, rather than try to improve it.

      And I think that anger or frustration like people feel around this situation sometimes gets expressed more when dealing with smaller or seemingly-minuscule targets like this ad rather than at a higher level. And that kind of makes sense, because it seems to me that Irish politicians seem utterly unshameable. If they aren’t utterly utterly ashamed at the ongoing homelessness situation, I’m not sure what, if anything, will induce it in them.

      Reply
  16. Eoin

    Twelve times annual rental value is the global mean for judging house value. Which means we have been robbed blind here for many, many years. You buy a house here, then you are happy about being robbed. You take out a 40 year mortgage here, then you are happy to be robbed. You accept these adverts from BOI as the new normal, then you are happy to be robbed. I’m sure your kids and grandkids, who may not even get to dream about house ownership, will thank you for being a sap.

    Reply
    1. Owen C

      “Twelve times annual rental value is the global mean for judging house value. Which means we have been robbed blind here for many, many years. You buy a house here, then you are happy about being robbed.”

      So you’re being robbed if you rent and you’re being robbed if you buy. Hmm. Who exactly is doing the robbing therefore?

      Reply
  17. anne

    I called up an estate agent recently for a new build of apartment blocks…the builder is holding onto all 200 apartments. not a one for sale.

    Rent is starting at 1600 a month.

    It’s not a crisis for some.

    Reply
  18. Niallo

    He’s right.
    I have to say, he’s like a breath of stale air, the mad oul fella in the corner spouting wisdom according to his experience.
    But he is right though, and hugely entertaining to listen to, that said, i wouldnt like to be stuck in a lift with him…

    Reply

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