Accepting Their Demands

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Catholic Archbishop Braulio Rodriguez

“The majority of cases of domestic violence happen because the woman’s partner does not accept them, or rejects them for not accepting their demands…Or often the macho reaction comes about because she asked for a separation.”

Archbishop Braulio Rodriguez. Toledo, Spain

Liggy writes:

A Catholic Bishop has lectured women that they are to blame for the domestic violence they encounter because they are not being obedient enough to their husbands.

Laying to one side the natural predisposition to roll ones eyes like an out of control slot machine at the thought of a single man sworn to celibacy advising married women on how to conduct themselves….

You really have to laugh at this message which boils down to: Women, you have been doing marriage all wrong according to this unmarried man. You should understand that your disobedience in a marriage is giving your husband just cause to abuse you. So, you know, you should stop that right now.

Then the laughing stops…

The Bishop also does a huge disservice to men by effectively whitewashing them out of his statement. After all, there is no domestic violence committed against men if all men are being forced into doing the abuse by their willful and inconsiderate wives.

In the last European wide study conducted in 2014, 1 in 3 women reported experiencing physical or sexual abuse since the age of 15.

There is no corresponding study for males. It is unclear why this is. I sincerely hope it is not because the researchers prefer the narrative of women as victims and men as criminals.

However, there are reported domestic violence stats available for each country from 2015-2016 with the female to male ratio of victims:

England and Wales: 2 million (65% female / 35% male)

Ireland: 5988 (75% female / 25% male)

Northern Ireland: 30,000 (79% female / 21% male)

Scotland: 58,104 (81% female / 19% male)

The Irish stats are not bulletproof as the Gardai do not classify domestic violence as a crime type which is hardly helpful to policy makers trying to legislate for measures to combat it.

This writing of male victims out of the story of domestic violence is dangerous and ignorant. It means that there is no training for officers in how to deal with men who are attacked by their partners. It means there is no provision of shelter space for men who want to leave the place where they are in danger.

It means that helpline services like Amen are not funded from the public purse but have to rely on donations instead.

It means there is no provision of shelter space for men who want to leave the place where they are in danger. It means that helpline services like Amen are not funded from the public purse but have to rely on donations instead.

Pic: El Pais

133 thoughts on “Accepting Their Demands

  1. Christopher

    “The majority of cases of domestic violence happen because the woman’s partner does not accept them, or rejects them for not accepting their demands…Or often the macho reaction comes about because she asked for a separation.”

    It doesn’t say anything about women being the cause or to blame just saying why some men are violent to the ir partners. I don’t see him condoning or trying to explain it and he certainly doesn’t say its the women’s behaviour that causes the violence.
    Put away your pitchfork on this one.

    1. Donal

      I agree, he is stating that the man sees things in a particular way and behaves as he does. He is not blaming the woman for causing the man to see things this way. (at least not in the quote above)

    2. eoghan

      Seemed to me that he was saying that violent men need to learn to be more patient instead of flying into a violent rage as a first response.

      Which is difficult to find fault with.

      1. Col

        I agree. Although I find fault with a man who has vowed never to get married giving advice on how to be married.

          1. Milo

            Not really. It happens every day here. Open bigotry. Casual like. No big deal.
            He doesnt say this at all. Someone else accuses him of saying it, then you repeat the accusation. And its ok cos he is a catholic. Thats how it works.

          2. realPolithicks

            “Someone else accuses him of saying it, then you repeat the accusation. And its ok cos he is a catholic. Thats how it works.”

            Yeah those poor oppressed catholics, how do they ever get by.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            Jayzus, Harold. You really don’t like them Muslims. Is Ireland a 90% Muslim country that was effectively a Muslim theocracy until the mid 90s and has constant discussions via media about whether average Catholic Joes can be trusted to not be terrorists? Can you see why your analogy is hilariously stupid? Good man.

          4. realPolithicks

            “change Catholic for Muslim and you’d be outraged”

            Whats your basis for making that statement?

          5. Clampers Outside!

            The accusation of Islamaphobia is thrown around as often as the insults directed at RCC… the leftists around here cannot see their own hypocrisy.
            They’ll condemn one and not the more oppressive of the two. Yes, Islam is more oppressive than Christianity, proof is in the cultures they have produced.

            Hope that’s clear enough for ya.

          6. realPolithicks

            The problem with Harry is his tendency to make inflamatory comments then when asked to back them up you get no response.

          7. realPolithicks

            Harry, your ability to make moronic comments is unequaled on this site. Congratulations!

    3. The Ghost of Starina

      Agreed. It depends on the wider context of his speech but as an isolated snippet, it’s actually statistically true. This is why many women don’t leave abusive relationships – because when they show independence, resistance or subordination, they’re punished, often with their lives.

    4. Harry Molloy

      My first thought was “why care what a Spanish Bishop ,or any Bishop says?”

      Then I read what he said and came to the same conclusion as you did.

    5. Liggy

      Hello Christopher and thanks for the comment.

      It seems to me that if you point out an aspect of people’s behavior and say this is why something negative is happening to them, then you are implying that if they refrain from that behavior, then the bad things will not happen.

      The Bishop is talking about a causation that has not been proven –
      Lack of marriage / rushing into marriage = anger = divorce = domestic abuse.

      He is also leaving the male experience out of his narrative by painting the man as the criminal and the woman as the victim.

      1. Milo

        He just can’t seem to get it right can he! Silly boy! Glad you’re here to mansplain things. And if you tell me you’re a woman.. then its just another cliche.

          1. Milo

            Makes sense. Scouring the web for things to take offence to instead of ignoring them. It happened in Spain fahchrisake! Do you know how obsessed it makes you look?

          2. Dubh_linn

            Tens of posts on an imagined anti-Catholic agenda. Do you know how obsessed that makes YOU?

          3. Milo

            The bigotry is so ingrained that it takes a bit of sustained reminding before people realise that bigotry is not an a la carte thing- its either acceptable or not. Do you think it is?

  2. Milo

    How far will BS go to scour the internet to find and twist something that makes Catholics look bad. From Truth/Command. That well respected source on the internet.

    1. Yep

      BS tend to post questionable stuff about the church.Or organisations related to the church or Catholicism, Not Catholics as a whole.

      1. Milo

        nice editorial line. Doesn’t wash. It’s openly anti catholic. It encourages and facilitates bigotry.

        1. Nice Anne1

          YOU encourage bigotry. Honestly, if you are a typical Catholic, I would conclude you are a bunch of paranoid nuts.

          1. Milo

            The selective posting of negative posts about Catholics is what I’m referring to. The acceptable baiting of bigots, the tolerance of anti catholic bigotry which I’ve pointed out on many occasions. If the same was done to a traveler, a Muslim or a gay person, you wouldn’t tolerate it. Accept it and get on with it.

          2. Nice Anne1

            (@Yep – So the answer to your question would be a no then)
            Why are you so afraid of a discussion on domestic violence Milo?

          3. Milo

            Nice dodge missus. How would you know imply that? This is not a discussion on DV, it’s a stitch up attempt on a catholic disguised as concern about dv. When you can confront your own bigotry then you have licence to be taken seriously. Why aren’t you confronting the bigotry you see every day?

          4. Yep

            “The selective posting of negative posts about Catholics”

            If you said the church or Catholic aligned organizations I would actually agree. It is not hard to see why this would be an editorial slant for BS. Considering…everything.

            Your belief that highlighting things done by some Catholic, is a slur on all Catholics, is just lacking in reason.

          5. Casey_online

            The Bishops remarks were about domestic violence, the narrative is about how qualified he is to talk about DV and men’s experience of DV was left out. The statistics are about DV and the summation is about the consequences of leaving male DV victims out of any studies of DV.

            ……but you think the piece is not about DV.

            What actual colour are the clouds in your world????

          6. Milo

            The piece was about DV, the discussion I was partaking in was about crass and lazy bigotry. One does not make the other ok. Strange how no one denies the bigotry on here, just keep pointing somewhere else.

          1. Clampers Outside!

            LOL !

            I asked for a patriarchal system worse than the RCC to be treated with that same contempt for the same reasons as the RCC is held in contempt… and possibly greater contempt for obvious oppression beyond anything the RCC practices today, and I get called a racist… LOL

            Equality is not anything you hold genuine and true, clearly. You virtue signal it.
            You’re happy to denigrate the RCC and give Islam and its Sharia a free pass, is that it?

            Damn funny “equality” you believe in Moyest, weirdo.

  3. Casey_online

    This is the full speech – La mayor parte de las mujeres que mueren lo son por sus maridos que no las aceptan, las rechazan por no aceptar tal vez sus imposiciones; o por su expareja, o también por el que convivía con ella; frecuentemente la reacción machista tiene su origen en que ella ha pedido la separación”, reflexionó.

    No obstante, añadió que es “estupendo” que las mujeres amenazadas “lo digan” y haya posibilidad de evitar el crimen con nuevos mecanismos de alerta”, aunque insistió en que “el problema serio radica en que en esas parejas no ha habido verdadero matrimonio”.

    “Cuando digo que no hay verdadero matrimonio, no estoy pensando sólo en el matrimonio canónico; también en el civil, ante el representante del Estado. No pienso en otro de tipo de uniones afectivas, donde casi lo único que les une es lo físico, lo genital y poco más”, continúo el arzobispo.

    Con todo, apuntó la necesidad de “dar gracias al otro o la otra por lo que cada uno hace en favor del otro” y “pedir con frecuencia perdón, palabra difícil, pero necesaria para que las pequeñas grietas no sean fosas profundas”

    He is blaming a lack of marriage and the availability of quickie-divorces as the cause of the rise in domestic violence. The inference being that if women adjust their behavior in this respect then men will not be violent to them.

    As the writer pointed out, there is no mention of violence committed by women but they also left out gay men as victims of domestic violence.

    1. Dubh_linn

      Why do gay men need to be called out as a separate group from men? I’m genuinely shocked that the figures for domestic violence against men is so high so asking this to learn more.

  4. Liggy

    This is not a Catholic bashing piece. it is a question of expertise and experience.

    If the Bishop was a trained counselor, psychiatrist or researcher, there would be some credence to be considered for his comments. However, he is not.

    He is a single, celibate man who has no practical experience of marriage. I would take umbrage with the Dali Lama coming out with the same statement.

    If my dog was sick, I would not take it to a mechanic to be treated. If I was looking for marriage advice, I would not look to a single celibate man for his opinion.

    1. Milo

      Really? So ignore him so. Why did you go looking for his piece in the first place? And then publish it? Ah just casual like… People come out with dumb statements every day- have you published any of them? Nah, just a Catholic thing. Im glad the other commenters on here have been more sober today.

      1. Liggy

        Yes, I have written articles on many other ill-advised statements.
        –Ill-advised statements by Iona about women’s right to choose
        –Ill-advised statement by a silly sexist about women and sport
        –Ill-advised article by the Irish Independent on working mothers
        –Ill-advised statements by the anti-choice lobby.
        (I have also written articles which praised some wonderful well-researched and considered opinions, before you ask)

        You are choosing to see this as some sort of anti-Catholic witchhunt. It is not. It is as Clampers so wonderfully put it, an anti-expert piece. This single celebrate man who has never has been married to a woman has no experience of marriage. He has no expertise in the area either.

        You called me obsessed as part of another thread – it’s a funny sort of obsession where I have only written one post which mentions the Catholic church, isn’t it. You can jump up and down and yell conspiracy, obsession and anti-Catholism all you want, it does not make you right. I shall leave you to your tin foil hat now. Have a lovely evening.

        1. Milo

          I’m not choosing anything. You are chosing to take a piece from an obscure website and twisting it to suit your agenda. Just like everything you have referenced suits the same feminist agenda. Just be honest. People will respect you more than pretending to be an objective “writer’.

          1. Pat Kenny's wife

            You’re a moron, troll, reactionary and as Jong Un would say a dotard. Go away and bore others to tears with your redundant tedium.

          2. Dubh_linn

            What an evil agenda it is too! Imagine making people aware that domestic violence against men is a thing.
            It’s better to try to derail discussions about this by being an attention seeking conspiracy oik. Much better use of time.

      2. Nice Anne1

        Really? So ignore him so. Why did you go looking for his piece in the first place? And then publish it?

        Bah hah hah. Biggest flute on Broadsheet trying to drum up faux Catholic outrage on every thread to mention the church tells someone else they could have just ignored something. Too f’ing funny for words.

          1. Milo

            All bigotry. I see very little tolerated on here except anti catholic bigotry. Hence my focus. Yourself?

          2. jusayinlike

            I’ve never seen you challenge anyone on Muslim bigotry of which there’s plenty from some bs commenters..

          3. ahjayzis

            We’re Irish, we have a proprietary claim to criticise Catholicms because most of us were forced to learn their backward superstitions at state schools.

            I’m sure there are strands of Hinduism I’d find objectionable, but they don’t own all our schools and all our hospitals so obviously we pay it less attention.

            They also didn’t spend a century training child rapists and enslaving women, so there’s the fact that their reputation for genuine compassion is in tatters, and it’s always fun to call out a rank hypocrite.

            The there’s those of us the Church actively campaigns against politically, that gives us license to fight back.

            And then the matter of clear lunacy of listening to an elderly virgin pontificating on sexuality and marriage.

            You get the picture.

            Hope that helps x

          4. Pat Kenny's wife

            Well said jusayinlike

            This diminutive brained solipsistic Neanderthal is in here pretty much every day flinging nonsense in a futile effort to make Ireland grate again

          1. Casey_online

            The Bishops remarks were about domestic violence, the narrative is about how qualified he is to talk about DV and men’s experience of DV was left out. The statistics are about DV and the summation is about the consequences of leaving male DV victims out of any studies of DV.

            ……but you think the piece is not about DV.

            What actual colour are the clouds in your world????

    2. Liggy

      Yes, I have written articles on many other ill-advised statements.
      –Ill-advised statements by Iona about women’s right to choose
      –Ill-advised statement by a silly sexist about women and sport
      –Ill-advised article by the Irish Independent on working mothers
      –Ill-advised statements by the anti-choice lobby.
      (I have also written articles which praised some wonderful well-researched and considered opinions, before you ask)

      You are choosing to see this as some sort of anti-Catholic witchhunt. It is not. It is as Clampers so wonderfully put it, an anti-expert piece. This single celebrate man who has never has been married to a woman has no experience of marriage. He has no expertise in the area either.

      You called me obsessed as part of another thread – it’s a funny sort of obsession where I have only written one post which mentions the Catholic church, isn’t it. You can jump up and down and yell conspiracy, obsession and anti-Catholism all you want, it does not make you right. I shall leave you to your tin foil hat now. Have a lovely evening.

  5. Casey_online

    This writing of male victims out of the story of domestic violence is dangerous and ignorant. It means that there is no training for officers in how to deal with men who are attacked by their partners. It means there is no provision of shelter space for men who want to leave the place where they are in danger.
    You’re going to be eaten alive for every point you made in this post except that one. No-one will go near it.

    You’re either very brave or not able to read Irish men. We don’t want this message. Shure, no man gets hit by a woman here. We’re all big brave men. No women would date hit us. The very idea is hilarious. Only a pussy would let a woman hit him.

    We also are dealing with the highest male suicide rate in Europe because we are terrible at talking about and understanding complex subjects like this.

        1. ReproBertie

          I’m agreeing. It’s just one of the stupid sayings, like man up, used to encourage boys to bury their feelings and emotions. Girls are emotional, boys are strong. If you can’t handle something and are being emotional about it then what sort of a cissy are you?

          1. Casey_online

            Thanks Bertie. Those phrases are symptomatic of a very toxic type of chest-beating masculinity.

  6. newsjustin

    Oh and the Archbishop made those remarks (maybe those remarks) in December 2015 apparently.

    Way to keep us up to date on hating the church Liggy.

    It’s almost as if that nonsense website you quoted was in need of an article so cobbled together something from a few years ago.

          1. newsjustin

            That’s disgusting. And you should be ashamed of yourself, using it to score internet points on a completely different topic.

          2. Nice Anne1

            Ah Justin, we talked about this before.

            That’s disgusting. The Catholic Church clergy should be ashamed of itself, using its influence to abuse children and then paying a lawyer to defend their monstrous satanist acts by saying the children gave consent.

            There, fixed it.

          3. newsjustin

            Of course they should Anne. I agree 100% with you.

            But the fact remains, you wheeled out the sexual abuse of children to win on the internet.

          4. Nice Anne1

            Internet points!?!? Where can I redeem them?
            The only thing worse than talking about sexual abuse is not talking about it and allowing your mates in the church to get away with it. The church are now changing the narrative from it wasn’t us to the kids wanted us to bugger them senseless. It is more important now than ever. to remind people of the murder, manipulation, abuse, cover-ups and greed that church are happy to inflict on people.

          5. Nice Anne1

            Internet points!?!? Where can I redeem them?
            The only thing worse than talking about sexual abuse is not talking about it and allowing your mates in the church to get away with it.

            The church are now changing their narrative from ‘it wasn’t us’ to ‘the kids wanted us to…’.

            It is more important now than ever. to remind people of the murder, manipulation, abuse, cover-ups and greed that church are happy to inflict on people.

    1. jusayinlike

      Nevermind what he says Justin, you’re more concerned with when he said it.. which is clearly more important right??

      1. newsjustin

        No. But many others had very sensibly critiqued the post as nonsense before I got here.

        It’s nonsense. And dated nonsense.

        1. jusayinlike

          Justin you’ve nowhere to hide here, you probably shouldn’t have got involved, you haven’t a leg to stand on..

      1. newsjustin

        a) Why do people think the existence on an actual news report on another matter makes the nonsense “report” presented in this post any less ludicrous?

        b) Pell is an innocent man. That actually means something in the non click bait news world.

          1. Daisy Chainsaw

            He probably made a really good confession and act of contrition too… so it’s all okay.

  7. Milo

    It’s shocking but not surprising how so many on here tolerate anti catholic bigotry and enable it. And the irony is that they defend their bigotry with the zealotry of the converted. That bs gives a platform and promotes the bigotry is also shocking but not surprising as it passes itself off as a bastion of tolerance. And tolerance is a selective art as we see every day.

  8. petey

    very good post liggy.

    i’ve been on the receiving end of a variety of physical abuses from women and part of why i divorced my wife was because of it. i am certain that a narrative of non-responsibility licensed her, and a gf previously.

    and listening to a guy who has never known martiage explain the dynamics of martiage is enough to make a person blanche.

  9. Sheik Yahbouti

    While I fundamentally and violently disagree with the position this God Botherer sets out, he is essentially correct in his assertions. Where he errs is in blaming the recipients of the violence for thee and outrageous attitudes of the perpetrators.

  10. Kdoc1

    Why are people still listening to the views of the Catholic Church? They’re irrelevant. Ignore them and they might go away.

    1. JeanD_Sacha

      History rolls around rather than travelling in a straight line. People have short memories. It is best to remind ourselves of irrelevance least others think utterances such as this are acceptable, Old man in a dress telling women how to behave – ridiculous.

        1. Daisy Chainsaw

          You want to put her in a room with knives, boiling water, bleach etc?

          Such a brave little Topsy!

      1. JeanD_Sacha

        Ah yrs, the dreadful bigotry of telling women how to behave, of telling the children of being assaulted and telling that no man has violence committed against him by a woman. A lot of bigotry to fight against there.

    1. Walk Walk Fashion Baby

      That means that this man has plenty of time to apologise. Post a link to that apology once you find it.

  11. Custo

    Seriously though, I think that website is my new favourite thing.

    The science & tech section is incredible.

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