More to folly

110 thoughts on “De Thursday Papers

    1. Nullzero

      Killer snow storms probably imported by illegal immigrants, back off Brussels and let us regain our sovereignty. In other news Prince Harry has red pubes, everyone in the home counties to follow suit

    1. Sentient Won

      That’s a sensible policy: armed response.

      You really think a “crazed guman”/criminal is not going to get a gun because it’s ‘illegal’?

      Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the states AND the highest murder rate.

      1. SB

        Does Chicago have any mass shootings, though, – as opposed to ‘criminal disagreements’? And do any of the shooters use AR-15s?

          1. SB

            I saw that link before I posted. That’s not what I meant. There are no nutters going into schools with semi-automatic rifles.The title of that page is very misleading – it should instead be “America’s *individual* shooting capital”. The article itself also implies that lax gun control laws elsewhere are the problem:
            “Mississippi sent 4,000 illegal guns to Chicago in the last decade. Nineteen percent of guns seized by police between 2009 and 2013 came from Indiana, which does not require background checks for firearm purchases online or at gun shows. Straw purchasers buy up the guns, take a short drive over the state line, and sell them on the streets.”

          2. Nigel

            A massive industry sells millions of guns legally to hobbyists in the US: it can hardly be a surprise that in a country awash with guns that a significant quantity make their way into the hands of criminals without much difficulty. They don’t have border controls between states with different gun laws.

          3. Nigel

            I think people who would seriously propose training and arming teachers to engage in gun battles with spree killers in schoolrooms as a matter of course would also naturally prefer to see free movement between states restricted before any sort of sensible or effective gun control.

      2. ReproBertie

        The US can barely provide teachers with pencils and you think they’ll fork out for firearms?

        The only way to prevent deaths by drunk drivers is to make sure there are good drunk drivers on the roads to tackle the bad drunk drivers.

          1. rotide

            Sentient Won, that paper had been doing the rounds for a couple of years and it’s an absolute crock. it’s been torn apart million times and was written by a guy who’s been proven to completely fabricate facts and statistics to back up the gun lobby.

            so no, Europe does not have more mass shootings than America. The continued availability of assault rifles as well as attitudes like yours ensures that America will be a world leader in this for years to come

          2. Sentient Won

            So wait… All you liberals who have been screaming “Trump is Hitler” for the last 18 months now want him to confiscate the guns lawfully held by the American people?

            Contradiction much?

            Which one of you is going to tell this lady?


          3. ReproBertie

            Hey, you know those trained professionals that carry guns as part of their job that you mentioned? How many of them get shot?

  1. Clampers Outside!

    Fair play to Jennifer Lawrence, standing up to “feminist” bullies.
    They’re likely imho just bent out of shape with jealousy… or to give the correct term, suffering from a lost bout of intrasexual competition… LOL!

      1. Nigel

        Purely by chance I saw this start to take off. Someone made a remark about a photo of Lawrence and her co-stars on a freezing London roof where she was dressed incredibly gorgeously, but with lots of exposed skin, while the men were all well wrapped up and sensibly dressed against the cold and not very glam or stylish. It wasn’t a comment that she shouldn’t wear what she wants or was forced to wear the dress or anything like that, just that it was typical of the differing beauty standards for men and women. Cue lots of outraged men insisting that nobody had forced her to wear the dress, pretty much drowning out the original point. With all the screaming and outrage and distortion aimed at the original remark, it’s understandable that Lawrence got the idea that she was being told not to wear stylish glamorous dresses – I tuned out of the whole thing pretty quickly, so God knows what stupid things were being said on both sides – and predictable that people like Clampers ignore what happened and jump at the chance to accuse feminists of jealousy, which in a roundabout way, goes to prove the original point.

        1. Clampers Outside!

          ” It wasn’t a comment that she shouldn’t wear what she wants or… ” Ms Lawrence demonstrably disagrees with you, but you know best I guess. You can mansplain to her what she really felt.

          1. Nigel

            I may well in fact know better because I saw the original comment and the immediate responses, and don’t think it’s a stretch to assume she didn’t, she probably saw the lies and distortions promoted by the media and yourself. And while yes, I may be guilty of mansplaining here, I’m not ‘mansplaining how she really felt,’ I’m telling you what actually happened, as I saw it, and why your accusation of jealousy is such an ugly, nasty little smear.

          2. Clampers Outside!

            Intrasexual competition drives a lot of feminist abusive behaviour, nothing smearing in that suggestion whatsoever. To deny any influence would be juvenile.

            – –

            You are mansplaining to Ms Lawrence.

            ” she probably saw the lies and distortions promoted by the media and yourself ” – I responded after she did…. so, not sure where you are going with that time traveling effort, in fairness :)

          3. Nigel

            Feminists get accused of it a lot certainly, and they also get called ugly and are subject to horrific abuse. and having their words and ideas distorted in order for people like you to justify such accusations is quite common.

            As for the rest, I told you what I saw. I haven’t said a word to Ms Lawrence. Are you calling me a liar?

          4. Clampers Outside!

            For clarification… ” Are you calling me a liar? ”

            I don’t know what exactly this refers to as you are being vague. I have not accused you of anything. Please be specific and maybe I will either be able to answer or clarify what it is you may have misconstrued, thank you.

          5. Nigel

            So you’re not questioning my account of what I saw? That being the case, I presume you wish to correct your take on this story, that it was fueled by animus and jealousy on the part of feminists, which is an ugly, if sadly typical, anti-feminist smear.

          6. Nigel

            I told you what happened. Lawrence was not abused by feminists, but you can be sure plenty of feminists got abused for their remarks, and smeared as acting out of jealousy. Are all the ‘documented’ cases similar to this one, I wonder? I wonder what’s behind the drive to abuse and smear feminists?

            I’ll also wager a shiny new penny that if you set any criticism of Lawrence by feminists (if any actual such criticism exists) against ‘criticisms’ of Lawrence by men you wouldn’t be long wondering which qualified as bullying and vile abuse. Which is to say I sincerely regret glancing at the comments under the Red Sparrow trailer on YouTube. Yech.

          7. Clampers Outside!

            Ms Lawrence responded that the feminist comments to cover up, were in her words… ” ..sexist, this is ridiculous, this is not feminism. ” Repeat, “not feminism”.

            – – –
            On your second bit, nor do I condone any such comments, “yech” for sure. Nor do I believe one abusive behaviour forgives another by any appearance to be more offensive, nor is it lesser or worse if delivered by either gender. Abuse is abuse.

          8. Nigel

            She’s absolutely right, it’s not feminism. The only references to covering up from feminists I saw were sympathetic people wondering if someone would give her a coat because it was so cold.

            I put it to you that abuse directed at woman in general and feminists in particular is, in fact, The Worst.

            Also, you are focusing on what appears to be a fabricated instance of abuse here. I’ve no doubt Ms Lawrence answered questions put to her in good faith. But it’s the Mail, so…

        2. rotide

          Nigel, you’re either very naive or flat out misinformed.

          There was a torrent of tweets when that photo was released. Pretending there was one reply to it and that was that is disingenioius.

          1. Nigel

            That’s plausible, I suppose. I can only say what I saw, and that was a comment that it illustrated the contrast between the expectations on women versus those on men. It didn’t have to be a good or right comment, what it wasn’t was an attack on Lawrence, but very quickly every other tweet in response was acting as if it was, and so that’s what it became.

          2. rotide

            Again, there was a deluge of Angry Agenda types tweeting their disapproval that Jen was made wear a sexy dress while the boys were wrapped up. this entire storm took place on Twitter where it’s a little silly to suggest that you “saw the original comment” when clearly there was only the original picture and then a multitude of various comments

          3. Nigel

            You’re right, it may not have been the ‘original’ comment, that’s fair. I also think the tweets were shown to be wrong because it appears she very definitely wanted to wear the dress. However, nobody was telling her to ‘cover up’ except inasmuch as it was cold and there was sympathetic shivering. But the backlash was vicious and near-instantaneous and willfully distorting and, well, here we are, trusting the Mail for a fair and accurate depiction of feminism.

      2. Clampers Outside!

        ” Wow. I don’t really know where to get started on this “Jennifer Lawrence wearing a revealing dress in the cold” controversy. This is not only utterly ridiculous, I am extremely offended. That Versace dress was fabulous, you think I’m going to cover that gorgeous dress up with a coat and a scarf? I was outside for 5 minutes. I would have stood in the snow for that dress because I love fashion and that was my choice.
        This is sexist, this is ridiculous, this is not feminism. Over- reacting about everything someone says or does, creating controversy over silly innocuous things such as what I choose to wear or not wear, is not moving us forward. It’s creating silly distractions from real issues. Get a grip people. Everything you see me wear is my choice. And if I want to be cold THATS MY CHOICE TOO! “

        1. Nigel

          Good for her. But she’s responding to a distortion of what at least the original comment was. Thus do lies about feminism become mainstream. It’s an interesting, if not edifying, spectacle.

        1. Amy Band

          Huh wtf? They’d have been convicted by now if they were guilty- anyone with an ounce of wit can see what a shakedown that case is

        1. Amy Band

          I very much doubt it somehow.

          In all the screeds, namecalling and drivel above not once have you addressed my point. The people attacking Jennifer are not feminists. You’re welcome

          1. Amy Band

            No we are telling you – you are part of the problem repeating this dung which you clearly don’t understand or care to. Jennifer isn’t posting here but you are, sadly.

      1. edalicious


        I can’t help but feel that actively seeking out things to annoy you and then sharing them to deliberately try to annoy other people is not a sign of a healthy mind.

          1. Nigel

            Yes if you narrow it down and ignore what happened and its context you are spot on. But now I’ve told you what happened you’ve no excuse. You’re welcome for the correction. It was no trouble, really.

          2. Janet, I ate my Avatar

            the weekend starts now
            I have heals on with my house coat and everything
            I won’t be held responsible for my action
            Nigel and Clamps have collectively messed up my bodyclock

          3. Nigel

            I think you sometimes find it difficult to properly identify mockery, which is why you need to flag it like this. Now I feel like a bad person.

          4. anyone

            Ms Lawrence didn’t post anything here that I’m aware of.

            I don’t see numerous piles of unending nonsense under her byline.

          5. anyone

            Shock! Jennifer Lawrence’s dress is not a symbol of all feminism

            Hannah Jane ParkinsonHannah Jane Parkinson

            It’s fine to think the Red Sparrow actor looked amazing in that dress, and it’s also fine to question what that says about our gendered society


            Thu 22 Feb 2018 16.56 GMT Last modified on Thu 22 Feb 2018 23.10 GMT

            View more sharing options





            Jennifer Lawrence, Joel Edgerton, Jeremy Irons, Matthias Schoenaerts, Francis LawrenceActors Jeremy Irons, from right, Joel Edgerton, Jennifer Lawrence, Matthias Schoenaerts and director Francis Lawrence pose for photographers at the photo call for the film ‘Red Sparrow’ in London, Tuesday, Feb. 20, 2018. (Photo by Joel C Ryan/Invision/AP)
            ‘Questioning whether there is pressure for women to dress in a way that isn’t expected of men isn’t wrong.’ Photograph: Joel C Ryan/Invision/AP

            What a storm in a C-cup. Jennifer Lawrence has worn a dress and now people (but in the media, read: women) are arguing about the dress Jennifer Lawrence wore, and whether she should have worn it, and also, how cold it is in London.

            If you missed this, the particulars are this: at a photo-call for the film Red Sparrow, Lawrence was photographed in a low-cut, thigh-slit dress, flanked by four male actors. A lot of people commented that Lawrence looked cold and that her male co-stars were all wrapped up warm. Lawrence then responded, saying she was “extremely offended” and wearing the “fabulous” dress was her choice.

            My thoughts on this picture were as follows: Lawrence looks amazing in that dress. That dress looks a lot like the famous Liz Hurley Versace dress, I like the dress. Haha, the juxtaposition with all the coated men, eye-roll. Why has Jeremy Irons dressed as Bloomsbury painter Duncan Grant? Did anybody tell Jeremy Irons he dressed as Bloomsbury painter Duncan Grant? Is Red Sparrow a biopic of Duncan Grant?

            There isn’t One Type of Feminism, and just because intra-debate occurs, doesn’t mean that everything starts collapsing

            Later thought: I don’t actually think it is that cold. But then I am from the north, where New Year’s Eve revellers go out in T-shirts and halter-neck tops unadorned (having lived south for almost a decade, I know nothing is as traitorous, not even a softened accent, as daring to throw on a jacket when the temperature is above freezing).

            But the main beef I have with this particular slaughterhouse of public opinion (please remember that Lady Gaga wore a dress made of literal meat that didn’t garner as much attention), is this: why is it not permissible to think two things at once – that it is much more common for women to dress sexily in such situations (and to question what, if anything, that says about our gendered society), and to also think it’s fine that Lawrence wanted to wear a dress because it looks hot?

            Neither thought is bad. The only bad thing here is the narrative of women pitted against each other (joyless feminists versus vain women-deserters), and the apparent inability to take an issue as being complex and multifaceted.

            I feel for Lawrence, who three years ago had to deal with intimate photos of her being stolen and distributed around the internet, which she correctly described as a sex crime. Please take a moment to think about how horrific this would be to experience, and marvel at the strength of this person. Lawrence has never seemed hesitant to speak her mind, so her saying that it was her choice to wear the dress isn’t at all surprising. But again, questioning whether there is pressure for women to dress in a way that isn’t expected of men isn’t wrong (though I can imagine from her perspective, and indeed all celebrities’ perspectives, the persistent idea that everyone knows your inner mind is infuriating).

            The thing is: variables, people. Remember when it was reported Cannes would ban women refusing to wear heels on the red carpet? Well, some women love high-heels. The actor Emily Blunt, for instance, said she hated them. Lawrence, meanwhile, “loves fashion”. Ellen Page, when she came out as gay, said she was now going to wear whatever she wanted, without duress. Maybe Page also loves fashion, but not the same sort as Lawrence. Men also love fashion. People who define their gender differently can also… love fashion.

            One of the most pleasing things of recent years is the resurgent profile of feminism in the mainstream. But what’s been lost somewhat is that There isn’t One Type of Feminism, and just because intra-debate occurs, doesn’t mean that everything starts collapsing, like a huge chunk of iceberg falling off into the sea.

            Women must have the right to bare their arms without comment

            Rhiannon Lucy Cosslett

            Rhiannon Lucy Cosslett

            Read more

            This goes for everything, pretty much. It shouldn’t be surprising that there are members of the Labour party who don’t read their children Das Kapital at bedtime, and that not all Tory members eat breakfast in cummerbunds. It shouldn’t need spelling out that even those in the same political parties don’t always agree with each other, given that we are now leaving Europe thanks to a never-ending inter-Tory tiff. I don’t think white people should read a single James Baldwin essay and be like: great, got it. The conflict in Syria, I’m afraid, isn’t as simple as pick-a-side, except for pick the side of ‘there is a genocide happening that needs to end’. I enjoyed last month, after a French reporter asked Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie about bookshops in Nigeria, watching the confused reaction of a woke Twitter user when a Nigerian man tweeted that he actually didn’t think the question was so stupid, because there were hardly any bookshops in his particular area and he thought literacy levels could be improved.

            So, what have I learned from this episode? Only that Jennifer Lawrence has once again proved herself an everywoman, in this case, someone who also takes to Facebook and writes statuses that include “I am extremely offended” and then veers into all-caps; that the Liz Hurley dress has its own Wikipedia entry; and that the item of celebrity attire in cold weather I care most deeply about remains, I’m sorry, Lenny Kravitz’s iconic scarf.

          6. anyone

            Thanks clampers

            No doubt your personal troll will be around in a minute to pour cold urine on it, probably his own, distilled, like malt vinegar

    1. edalicious

      I’m confused about how they’re going to split off the Luas line and go underground from Stephen’s Green. Apparently there’s going to be an underground stop at Stephen’s Green East? There doesn’t appear to be a stop at Harcourt so maybe it goes right on Adelaide Rd after Charlemont.

      Even as a occasional Green Line user, I think it’s a bit disappointing that they’re increasing the capacity of the existing portion rather than adding the proposed route from Christchurch out through Harold’s X towards Rathfarnham. Obviously the Green Line needs increased capacity but I reckon it would be fairer to expand the service to other areas first and just add more trams to the Green Line.

  2. Murtles

    “More people should get pills to beat depression” experts have said. Hmm I wonder are these experts linked to any Pharmaceutical companies that perchance make these pills? Sweeping depression under the carpet with a here’s a prescription, now get out of my surgery approach is lazy. Having said that Ireland certainly does not lead the way in Mental Health care anyway so maybe pills are the easiest approach. At least put a vending machine outside the doctors and save the extortion money for a 4 minute visit.

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      It’s never been my experience. I can honestly say without antidepressants, I wouldn’t be here. Even when I’m on them, I’ve had dark, dark thoughts (thankfully, never more than thoughts). Giving someone a prescription isn’t “sweeping depression under the carpet”. It’s one method of helping someone with depression get through their day in one peice. If you pulled a muscle, you’d accept painkillers from your doctor and get a sports massage or phisiotherapy to help it heal. The same with depression, you take the drugs, and you see a therapist to help you heal.

      Of course, it’s easier for the woo merchants to blame “big pharma” without looking at how beneficial antidepressants are to sufferers.

      1. Neilo

        @Daisy Chainsaw: a thousand times, yes. A loved one ‘s life was saved by timely, supervised pharmaceutical treatment in concert with psychiatric consultations and cognitive therapy.


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