Over The Road

at

P

This afternoon.

Buswells Hotel, Dublin 2

As the Dáil debate the bill to hold a referendum on the Eighth Amendmen, Pro-life-campaign members, top from left: Maeve O’Hanlon, Aine Kierans, Caroline Simons, Cora Sherlock, Liz Mc Dermott, and Katie Ascough outlined their stance to save Article 40.3.3.

Dáil debating Eighth Amendment referendum bill (RTÉ)

Earlier: Womb It Concerns

Rollingnews

94 thoughts on “Over The Road

    1. david

      What percentage of the LGBT? community are advocating abortion and how many are not ?seen as you class these people as rabid catholic dark agers?
      Which is as offensive as my LGBT ? Remark

      1. jusayinlike

        Are these people very Catholic in belief?
        A – Yes.

        Is the Catholic Church progressive wrt beliefs?
        A – No.

        Therefore my comment stands.

  1. Susan

    According to sherlock “There are unborn baaayybieees alive in Ireland today” covering herself in rational glory as per usual.

  2. Anne

    I feel so sorry for Katie Asgough. Poor girl was homeschooled using some religious curriculum. No real world experience just brought up to be a young mouthpiece for her parents crusade.

          1. newsjustin

            Of course abortion shouldn’t be allowed in cases of rape. There is no justification for ending the life of a human being because of who their father is.

          2. mildred st. meadowlark

            I find the eloquence and level-headedness with which you argue your point frequently admirable.

            But that is a hideous and cruel sentiment you just expressed.

          3. mildred st. meadowlark

            Not to me under those circumstances.

            It may not be acceptable to you, but you will never understand the burden a woman under those circumstances carries. It is cruel, inhumane even, to ask such a thing of her. It is punishing her to deny her the option, under those circumstances. And for that reason, and many others, I see it differently to you.

            You cannot blindly ignore the wellbeing of a woman for the sake of a foetus. Especially when such a disgusting and unforgivable crime has been committed against her.

          4. Daisy Chainsaw

            Thats the problem with the foetus fetishists. They don’t care about the host. It’s only there to incubate with its rights equated with a foetus while it remains a foetus.

            Once it’s gone from the womb, so is the so called “prolife” interest.

    1. Lilly

      +1 You could argue that all religious belief passed on from one generation to the next is brainwashing.

      1. david

        The rape argument is dead in the water
        By the time rape is brought to trial the baby would be about a year old
        The rule of law is you are innocent until proven guilty
        So the question is alleged rape on the word of one is pretty dodgy grounds
        What if as a matter of spite a woman decides to abort her partners child and cite rape?
        Women can get very spiteful as can men or members of the LGBT? community
        Just look at cases I the family courts

  3. The Ghost of Starina

    Jaysus, Katie, cross your legs better willya. God will see your ladyparts and you’ll go to H-E-L-L.

  4. Tom

    Why are pro lifers always demonised? Can’t people just accept they have a different opinion which they’ve arrived at in good faith.

    1. Anne

      They are not demonized for their opinions. They are demonized for wanting every woman to adhere to their opinions and only their opinions.

        1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

          If you don’t want to get an abortion, don’t.
          If you do want one right now, you can’t. Therein lies the difference. A new regime would allow for choice.

      1. Harry Molloy

        I can understand it, if you genuinely believe that the ending of a foetus existence is inherently wrong then you can oppose it like you would oppose murder.
        But that’s why we have democracy, because others have legitimate opinions that differ.

        1. Aaaa

          Woah woah woah, don’t be coming across with all this balanced, reasonable and perspective stuff here. Not on Broadsheet.

        2. Ippity

          If any of these women become pregnant, I will support them in whatever decision they take in relation to that pregnancy.
          But they won’t do the same for others.

          1. Janet, I ate my Avatar

            I used to go to a bar called La fée verte or thé green fairy that specialised in absinthe,
            those fairies dinnea half whisper

          2. mildred st. meadowlark

            And btw jan, we are indeed neighbours ;)
            Or close enough. I’m a bit further north than you. Within spitting distance of lambay.

          3. newsjustin

            Acknowledging the demonstrable, scientific fact that a foetus is human and that abortion ends that human life does not require any whispering “sky fairy”.

          4. Janet, I ate my Avatar

            hmmm
            that may not be your sentiment as a “pro-life ” person but you would be the exception in my experience. To echo Milly I respect the way you put your arguments across so I am not going to get into one here on this thread too much as to be honest the whole thing makes me incredibly angry and I don’t trust myself to stay measured in return.

          5. Nigel

            And yet opposition to abortion rights comes almost overwhelmingly out of a religious tradition, and an oppressively misogynistic one, at that.

        3. Tom

          That’s how I feel. I can fully understand their position as there is an honest logic to it although I would fall on the other side of the fence. I’m just sick of people making out they are all evil when that is not the case.

      2. Lilly

        Exactly. Let them live their lives according to their own moral compass without trying to usurp other women’s right to do exactly that.

      1. Matt Lucozade: The Only Reader of the Village

        ‘Tater tots you mean.

        What soros sauce do you want on them?

  5. Daisy Chainsaw

    Niamh Ui Bhriain was on Matt Cooper saying there’ll be more than “80,000” at tomorrow’s march. 80k wouldn’t be contained on one part of Merrion Square so the groundwork for lies is already being laid. The press releases are probably ready to go.

    1. Matt Lucozade: The Only Reader of the Village

      Does that 80K include the Brit rugby supporters in their skirts? I mean kilts.

  6. ollie

    They are entitled to their opinion. Plenty of misogynistic posters on Broadsheet today, your mammies must be proud

    1. Anne

      They are indeed entitled to their opinion. They are not entitled however to make sure that myself and every Irish woman must do what they want and adhere to their opinions

      1. Aaaa

        “They are not entitled however to make sure that myself and every Irish woman must do what they want and adhere to their opinions.”

        Well referendums exist to set/alter laws. If the majority of the country votes to keep it then it’ll be law so I suppose you’d have to adhere to it. It won’t be these few women that decide things, it’ll be the majority of the country.

        1. mildred st. meadowlark

          I can accept that.

          I do not care for my ability to safely choose being diminished by a law that was decided on and enacted before I was even born, which has directly affected my life. I would simply like to be given the opportunity to change that.

          If it does not pass, then yes, I would accept, even if I don’t like it.

          But the the government are (or should be) answerable to the electorate, to the people they represent, and if there is enough of will to change a law, then people should be afforded the opportunity to have their say.

          I honestly hope it passes. I really do.

          1. realPolithicks

            I’ve said it before but I’ll repeat it anyway. The referendum is important and hopefully the 8th will be repealed, but honestly its almost irrelevant. Abortion happens everyday in Ireland, thousands of Irish women either travel abroad or use the morning after pill and that will not change no matter the outcome of the vote. What people are actually voting for in the referendum is how women will be treated in Ireland, will they be provided with the proper health care they need at a vulnerable time in their lives or will they continue to be forced to undergo the torture which is the current system. I know what I would do, I’d vote to give autonomy over their own bodies back to women and allow them to make decisions which work for them.

      1. DeKloot

        Oh in the same vein that criticising any opinion makes you racist, fascist, anti-Semitic, a snowflake and so on when people making those assertions are unable to articulate effectively and engage in a reasoned discourse and debate to the contrary.

        That and they’re ar$eh0les. ;)

  7. A force for justice

    As someone who listens to talk radio & watches news & current affairs shows on TV, where are the repeal campaigners?

    I heard Ailbhe Smith for the first time on Matt Cooper this evening but every day I hear Cora Sherlock, Maria Steen, Ronan Mullen etc getting air time with no broadcaster outlining their religious bias.

    Politicians are the only repeal campaigners I’ve heard from.

    I’m seriously worried that the 8th won’t be repealed.

    I am not on any social media platforms. I asked a friend of mine who has attended marches for repeal if she thinks it will pass & she was shocked I would have any doubts. This friend is active on social media platforms.

    Are the repeal campaign already preaching to the converted?

    1. newsjustin

      “…with no broadcaster outlining their religious bias.”

      What are they saying on tv/radio/press that has anything to do with religion?

      Being pro-life and anti abortion is like page 1 of the humanism handbook.

      1. Neilo

        A close friend of mine is a lifelong atheist and is much more on the pro-life than pro-choice end of the spectrum. He’s also much better-looking that all these fascist, misogynist, not sitting appropriately ‘religious nuts’ in the photographs above. Do I have the correct tone of Sanctimonious Mean Girl now?

    2. dave

      I suspect it may not be repealed. I think the repealers’ view that a fetus is not a human life and that abortion is not taking the life of an unborn may not sit well with people, religious or not. Referring to terms such as zygote does not further their cause. “my body, my choice”- except it’s more than just your body.
      If they instead came at it from a differnt standpoint, eg “yes it’s taking a life, but it is still justified in these circumstances:…” maybe there would be more understanding. People aren’t stupid, they get nuance.

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        The foetus has potential to become a human baby, but it relies on a woman to be its life support for several months until it’s capable of an independent existence. The woman’s health and welfare is jeopardised under the 8th amendment and we have several bodies strewn on the altar of “prolife” as a result. Removing the 8th will ensure a pregnant woman or girl will get the best of whatever care she requires without having to consult the Constitution for permission.

        1. dave

          Sperm has potential. Once insemination takes place there is life there. V. true re. the recent deaths the current situation has caused. But what would stop someone who is pregnant 10 (or whatever) weeks suddenly deciding they no longer want a baby getting an abortion, should they decide? Is that not taking a life?

  8. Peter Dempsey

    What do you think of this stance?

    “I’m voting no to repeal”

    “But you have daughters? What if one of them had a crisis pregnancy and wanted to have an abortion?”

    “I’d support in whatever she wanted to do. I would discourage her from having an abortion but if she really wanted one, I would help her (travel expenses / financially etc).”

    “What about other woman? Why won’t you vote yes to repeal so they can avail of abortion if required?”

    “They’re not my daughters.”

    1. Nigel

      I would say it’s the sort of stance that gave us the X case. She wasn’t your daughter, either, so who cares?

    2. Janet, I ate my Avatar

      I’d like to think as a woman I don’t need my Fathers help or permission

      1. Peter Dempsey

        I’d say it’s common enough. People will vote no but when push comes to shove they won’t force their daughters to continue with a pregnancy so they will got to England.

  9. painkiller

    Right now is not the best time to run the Repeal movement because it will inevitably become a lost battle in an ongoing culture war where it’s fundamentals first, details second. Expect a fundamental push-back to the liberal dogma that has been coming across the Atlantic (and bought relatively cheaply by outside advocacy/interest groups) in recent years…this is the group that got us to where we are.

    The “marriage equality” referendum was a case in point – the language of it alone revealed a troubling bias, i.e. are you for or against equality? When pressed, people got into the semantics of the term “marriage” even though the legal definition of civil marriage is specific and civil partnership was written to give same sex couples the same rights as married couples (apart from a line into family law). And I get it, gay people have been persecuted in Ireland and many of us felt they were due a gentle pat on the back but that had nothing to do with changing the definition of family and possibly leading us down a road where the nuclear family is undermined. Yet 38% voted no, and no political party and very few public people would step up to ask the interesting questions. Roscommon–South Leitrim were labelled the homophobes of Ireland. When I voiced skepticism, some people on this site said they would love to know where I lived and pay me a visit. Lovely, compassionate people. The same underlying hostility in the Repeal movement, only this time the awareness is far, far wider.

    If the Repeal campaign fails in its objective, it would be all too easy to attribute it to ignorant flat-earther stereotypes but the truth is mob justice is not good for public discourse in Ireland and does not work because the more silent among us are very wary of dominance and will push back, no matter what you are asking for. And this time it could be 52% instead of 38%. The fact some people don’t get this confirms just how wide the culture divide in Ireland is.

    1. Alastair

      Complete guff. Really. Hope everyone is managing to cope with the undermined nuclear family scenario that marriage equality has ushered in.

      Oh, wait…

      Love the blame Soros routine too.

      1. painkiller

        Who? I was talking about Atlantic Philanthropies: https://www.advocate.com/politics/marriage-equality/2015/05/01/meet-irelands-marriage-equality-benefactor-american-billionair

        Fair to say a man with access to those kinds of resources getting involved in a domestic civic matter in a small country should generally qualify as unwanted outside interference…but then I suppose it depends on where you get your views of “fairness” – by any means necessary, for the greater good, one man’s terrorist etc etc.

        And relieved to hear you’ve no moral conflict with IVF – phew…

  10. Truth in the News

    If the Catholic Church and their proxies with own agendas keep their mouths shout, the repeal
    8th will tank and flop, what we have is one faction of zealots 2018 style trying to undo 1982/3
    prescription to abortion which was organised by another faction of religious fanatics.
    There are human rights issues, which are fundamental and protection of life is one, but the
    critical question will the electorate vote for abortion with little or no controls….they won’t;
    The public are rattled at what happened in Tuam and numerous other so called homes to
    the born, the will have no tolerance to do it the unborn, unless the life of the mother is at
    at exceptional or fatal risk…..it should remembered there is a middle ground and it is expanding
    beware.

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