Right Reverend Michael Burrows
‘…I for one gasped when I first heard the specific proposal that the Oireachtas might, if so enabled, legislate for terminations up to twelve weeks. I certainly accept that many people have considerable difficulty with this – indeed given the present composition of the Dáil such legislation might not be passed at all at this time.
However, it is the duty of legislators to look at the whole picture, to make laws for a society capable of facing the truth about itself.
The decisions of the Oireachtas do not change the teachings of the Church of Ireland or of any other church.
Even within Anglicanism there would be some significant ethical thinkers who would regard termination in the early weeks of pregnancy, if clinically guided, as differing in moral character from later terminations.
And as a parent I always ask myself … If my young adult daughter was in a crisis pregnancy, had been offered as much support as possible, and was well aware of the ethical aspects of her situation but still concluded that she wished to obtain abortifacients online, would I want her doing so in the absence of medical supervision?
That today is the tough question at the bottom of it all.
I will be voting for Repeal because I believe, as I did in 1983, that the text of the Eighth is incorrigibly flawed. While I may be anxious about what may happen next, I believe sufficiently in parliamentary democracy to hand the matter to legislators and indeed to trust them – that is their duty and their vocation.
As I said at the Citizens’ Assembly, it would be tragic if the cynicism that often seems (largely unfairly) to surround politicians made us less than mindful of the privilege of living in a parliamentary democracy.
It has always been the practice of the Church of Ireland to pray unceasingly for our legislators – in the coming months they may need that prayer perhaps more than ever.
The Right Reverend Michael Burrows, Church of Ireland Bishop of Cashel and Ossory
Bishop’s Letter – April 2018 (Diocese of Cashel and Ossory)
Thanks Annie West
But the Church of Ireland is against repeal officially, Bishop Michael Jackson gave a strong denunciation of repeal this week. Trying to get an answer out of the Quakers as to where they stand on repeal is like pulling teeth from a rhino.
Did he also say”chamone” and moonwalk on the alter?
Quakers make their own minds.. I don’t know one who doesn’t support Repeal..
it’s all part of being taught to question and participate rather dictated to
Actually they believe in individual choice not abortion on demand
Which will be open to abuse
But hey the sheep will be led down the path
A throw away society.
“Trying to get an answer out of the Quakers as to where they stand on repeal is like pulling teeth from a rhino.”
Maybe yes, maybe no.
A US Quaker straw in the wind?
https://www.rehumanizeintl.org/single-post/2011/12/20/Quakers-Need-a-ProLife-Peace-Testimony
But read what he says? if his daughter had a crises pregnancy
Maybe if asked for abortion on demand his answer would be no
Its an example of twisting words to suit an agenda
And the agenda of this administration is abortion on demand hence why the wording of what will replace the eight amendment is not on the ballot paper.
Within the membership of the Church of Ireland, as in the neighbouring Church of England, there are high church, evangelical and middle-of-the-road tendencies. A certain Reverend in Castlecomer has been making his theologically-based views known in recent years in the letters pages of national newspapers. Voices like these, and the voices of members of the nonconformist denominations around our island, including the denominational groupings among the New Irish among immigrants and former asylum seekers from Africa, Asia and Latin America, can, as free citizens, contribute to the national debate. Then vote on 25th May.
pray for our legislators
I will in me rhymes with tum tum
Well done him.
A thoughtful and well-reasoned approach.
The Church of Ireland always comes across as so reasonable compared to the Catholic Church. Just so much more modern and tolerant.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
He said crises pregnancy not abortion on demand which is what this is about
If asked about abortion on demand he would say no
No church agrees with abortion on demand
A lot of pregnancy is a crisis David
in this modern world babies cost money, a steady relationship may not be in place to create a healthy environment for a child, a woman’s health may be at risk…its not on demand it’s an option. The world is already full of unhappy badly brought up people, you yourself prices to have suffered and your posts show a lot of anger. surly the world would be a better place when mothers have planed children when they are emotionally, physically and mentally ready to help these kids make a better world ?
profess to have had pardon…new phone
I just reread that and want to be very clear that in no way was that comment a slur on your mother and you have said positive things about her
I am just trying to reach your empathy and imagine a worse suffering for children of mothers less prepared or strong.
Janet I am against removing something from the constitution without knowing what exactly is going to replace it.
That is all
Simon coveney stated a very valid point regarding laws to be safe guarded ,and he was shot down.
Not you or me or anyone has seen what exactly is to replace what they are removing.
And because abortion on demand might just be what they have planned ,many Irish people might just vote to retain the eight amendment
Then where will we be? Back to square one with other savita’s
This is our constitution and not just a law its what all laws must comply with
I have a mentally handicapped nephew and god if mentally handicapped children are aborted because the protection of them is gone god help us all..
Till the last breadth of our family we will care for this lad for he is pure innocence
I simply cannot see why the wording cannot be changed to enshrine into our constitution that mothers with fatal foetal abnormality, and cases of suspected rape and incest reported to the authorities ,can have the life terminated,simple
Firstly the constitution is not the place for specifics. It makes for court cases and delayed decisions and more referendums.
Secondly you are asking for less than the government are proposing to be inserted into the constitution. Let’s ignore that for a second and focus on one thing you want inserted, suspected rape. How do you propose we legislate for that? Is that not just abortion on demand if the woman is willing to lie and say she was raped?
It was putting a poorly conceived and ill-thought out specific protection into the constitution that caused the problems in the first place that’s why we have to get rid of it, it’s a mess and you want to replace it with something even messier. We don’t replace it with anything. We draft laws.
Janet I agree with you about the world and its not easy but saying all that abortion by demand is not a contraceptive
Many families fall apart for many reasons and bringing in abortion on demand will not alter one god dam thing
We see some parents having children on social welfare simply because a mother with six children maybe gets 50 grand in social welfare payments
That sounds absolutely shocking but that is reality
I am not a holy Joe or living in the mc quaid era I am reasonable and though my grammar and spelling are bad I have my views
We have a constitution for a reason which all laws must comply with ,I believe you remove constitutional rights you have no rights
Laws can be passed and we can end up in a place worse than where we are
History is testament to that
What is the big deal in publishing what exactly is going to replace this and put it on the ballot paper ?
Frankly because they refuse to do this shows they cannot be trusted
Much like victims of rape and the legal system takes many months to bring a case for trial.
A person is innocent until proven guilty,
That is law and that is why I said
suspected rape.
And yes it would protect the victims of rape if the woman chooses not to carry the baby and spare her the trauma
That is compassionate caring just but not abortion on demand
But it’s a backdoor to abortion on demand. To get an abortion just say the magic words “i was raped”.
Besides, the Citizens Assembly and the Oireachtas Committee wanted more access to abortion that wouldn’t need people to lie.
No Bertie a suspected rape is a rape reported
Believe me making false allegations is against the law
Bertie get a brain
I did not vote for a citizens assembly ?
I did not choose or vet them ?
Basically they did not represent me and certainly do not speak for me
So a girl is raped and left pregnant and wants to have an abortion and get on with her life but you want to force her to report the crime first? Because of course reporting rape always ends well for the victim.
Get a brain says the man who doesn’t understand how question marks work, let alone how the Citizens Assembly works. Thankfully your inability to understand how the Citizens Assembly works doesn’t invalidate their work or the conclusion they came to. On May 25h the country gets to vote on a version of their recommendations and then we’ll find out how many of us they speak for.
Bull
All I will say even for the sake of stopping a rapist, it is the moral duty of a victim to report a rape.
If a rapist is not stopped they get nastier and nastier.
Rape is a crime.
Personally my views are all rapists should be surgically castrated and branded with rapist on the forehead
You have a mentality that existed in Ireland for decades which resulted in the abuse that the church aided by state visited on the most vulnerable
As for the assembly, I know exactly how they work and its how they are chosen .which interests me and who chose them
Tomorrow I could put together an assembly and pick them to suit my agenda.
You really believe that a 12 year old girl, raped by her father/uncle/football coach, should have to go to the guards in order to have an abortion?
You weren’t too concerned about moral duty when you announced that, even though it would mean more women dying, you would be voting No.
If you need to keep telling yourself that the Citizens Assembly was loaded with carefully selected people just to avoid realising how out of touch you are with modern Ireland then carry on. The vote on the 25th will reveal the truth.
No Nigel it was a different time and the medical team caring for savita instead of saving life decided their extreme pro life beliefs dictated their actions.
The hospital and them hid behind this so called ill conceived legislation to basically do the best for their beliefs not the patient.and by god there is no place for that mentality where people can die ..
Maybe another hospital and other doctors might of saved the mother instead of waiting until sepsis was so set in she died.
I just do not want another ill conceived law which could be the complete opposite.
Is that too much to ask.?
I want to see exactly what they are going to replace it with
Knee jerk legislation is never wise and especially in our constitution. And I will tell you Nigel if what exactly replacing this is not on the ballot paper ,I will vote no like hundreds of thousands of people.
You know what is going to replace it. You’ve been told quite clearly.
Knee jerk legislation? Are you for real? How many experts did the Citizens Assembly listen to? How long did they sit and deliberate before coming up with recommendations? After all that we had to sit and watch while an Oireachtas Committee sat through it all again only to come up with the same recommendations.
This is about as far from knee jerk legislation as you can get.