From top: Paddy Jackson  (centre) arriving at Langanside Courts in Belfast to hear the verdict in the Ulster Rugby rape trial; Anne-Marie McNally.

I hate to say it but we need to have a conversation. An uncomfortable conversation for many. A conversation that has, to some extent, played out in the media and in social circles for weeks now. The conversation needed is about consent; real consent, and respect; real respect.

I really would have preferred not to open this hornet’s nest but as a woman, and a woman with somewhat of a platform I feel I have an obligation to take part in the conversation.

From the outset I want to be clear that I haven’t nor won’t comment either way on a verdict delivered in a court of law. That’s not what this is about.

But whether you were a supporter on the #ibelieveher tag or the #ibelievehim tag it shouldn’t stop us from having a conversation about why those Whatsapp messages are so problematic and what they indicate about a culture of toxic masculinity that subjugates women and their sexuality.

Most of my closest friends are men. Good men. They wouldn’t be my friends if they weren’t, however in recent days I’ve had conversations where it’s clear we, as women need to keep highlighting how certain actions and words impact on us.

It’s not that men sometimes disregard that, it’s just that their lived experiences are so entirely different to ours.

I love hearing and trying to understand what it is to be male in this world and equally I shouldn’t be considered a ‘feminazi’ if I want to try and help you understand how difficult it can be, at times, to be a woman in a society which has pretty much always downgraded us to second-class citizens.

Too many people I know dismissed those WhatsApp exchanges as ‘awful but common’ or ‘just a normal part & parcel of the kind of *banter* lads have’. I can’t accept that. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I’m saying just because it happens doesn’t make it OK.

The guys who confessed to hearing similar conversations mostly said they a) never took part or b) it made them slightly uncomfortable. What they didn’t say was that they’d asked the other guy or guys to stop. To not degrade women. To not speak about women like that in front of them. And that’s what it will take.

Because the eejit who thinks he’s being a ‘legend’ by bragging about treating women like crap will soon stop thinking he’s a legend when the other lads tell him it’s not acceptable. Then maybe the next time he thinks twice before recounting some derogatory tale and maybe eventually there’s nobody to tell the tale to and so those tales stop.

Even better would be for us as a society to get comfortable recognising that females being sexual is not taboo. For society not to place judgements on women based on their sexual activities. For it to be so normalised for a woman to be in control of her own sexuality that any guy trying to degrade a woman by focusing on her sexual activities would be laughable.

Such an attitude change requires strong, age appropriate sexual education at all stages of life. Education that is free of religious underpinnings and that is so much more than basic biology or warnings of disease or pregnancy.

It is education that focuses on the full gambit of healthy sexuality including things like body positivity, healthy relationships, sexual pleasure and of course consent. But not just the premise of consent but the real and practicable application of consent; enthusiastic and negotiated consent.

Everyone engaging in sexual activity must recognise consent as a constantly evolving process, and consent to one or a number of things does not confer consent for everything. That should be obvious but apparently it isn’t. Which leads me to enthusiastic consent.

When Hozier tweeted that consent should be sexy he wasn’t wrong, although he neglected to say it should be mandatory, his intention was right.

His tweet read

‘Lads, if you’re not convinced that consent, audible consent – something uttered, something whispered, something called for loudly – is sexy, then chaps I’m afraid you may not be doing this right.’

Stuart Olding’s statement after the verdict recognised that the complainant had a ‘different perception’ of what occurred that night. This in itself can be taken as an indication that negotiated and enthusiastic consent was absent.

Lads let me put it this way, I can pretty much guarantee you that your game isn’t strong enough to stun and mute a sexual partner for any protracted period of time during sex. And if you think it is then you best make sure you’re verbally checking in on the regular because that consent should be the loudest thing in the room- whatever form it takes.

Anne Marie McNally is Social Democrats Political Director and General Election candidate for Dublin Mid-West.

149 thoughts on “Consent Is King

  1. Sir Adolf Von Bratwurst

    A woman with somewhat of a platform..You are part of a political elite. you are a non elected politician who regularly appears on tv and radio. you have no platform. Maybe if you get elected, maybe then. Sadly Bs dont let me have columns or other members of the great unwashed but anne marie gets one.

    1. Nigel

      You said she appears regularly on tv and radio, but doesn’t have a platform. Think I see why Broadsheet isn’t kicking down your door to give you a column.

  2. Bort

    For a lot men “toxic masculinity”, verbally anyway is our dirty secret. What men say and do are completely different. Some of the nicest, most respectful, gentlemen you know may come out with some horrific stuff when talking to the lads. Your brother, your partner, it would shock you. It doesn’t necessarily mean they may ever harm a hair on a woman’s head or even speak ill to a woman. The same way some women may carry on about a guy they fancy or a guy they’ve been with – doesn’t make them a “slut” etc. Men, women, gay, straight most people chat sh*t but would never actually act out in reality. This is a dawn of time issue. It’s not right but it’s reality.

    1. jim

      This is all very true. I have been discussing this with the wife and wondering how “did you ride any birds”, a common phraseology in the past among my peers, was any different to “did you f*** any sluts”. The latter is arguable a bit cruder, or aggressive, maybe, but it’s the same kind of derogatory lads’ talk about women. And though I myself was one of the more reticent of the group to use such language, I went along with the rest of the group doing so. I know none of them would mean any harm to women and would be decent men in the main, but there was always this disrespectful lads’ talk going on.

      It’s a hypocrisy lost on many men. We talk in certain ways about women (maturity seems to have dampened the magnitude and frequency of such talk, thankfully) yet we don’t want our daughters spoken of in this way. I think we block out the fact that it will happen if something doesn’t change.

      1. SOQ

        I think there is quite a difference between bird and slut Jim but generally, fair point. Why do you think it is nearly always srt8 men who don’t believe a female rape victim?

        1. jim

          Dunno. I wouldn’t have experienced enough of a sample of conversations to consider that. Regarding this case, any men I spoke to either believed her, or believed both (that argument that both parties had differing perceptions of the event). No man I spoke to believed them outright, nor condoned their behaviour after. I also think they were lying through their teeth on various matters after the event, but that couldn’t prove they thought they were raping the girl, which was required for a conviction.

          Oh yeah, and all those men are str8 (as far as I know!).

  3. Janet, I ate my Avatar

    I’ll admit to having disrespectful thoughts and spoken words about malekind

    1. Janet, I ate my Avatar

      Sorry it’s probably not a joking mater
      too soon
      It’s a very relative conversation
      I have worked in very male dominated areas and the lads sometimes forget you are there or not one of the lads
      locker room chat ain’t pretty

    2. Brother Barnabas

      i think there’s a big difference between having purvy thoughts and words about some guy and the sort of demeaning comments made about that girl in their whatsapp group (the “spitroasting” thing comes to mind).

      [mostly, though, i though their comments were just bizarrely childish and cringeworthy – “We are top shaggers” would be sad coming from a 13-year-old boy… from a 25-year-old man (or whatever age he is) was beyond pathetic)

      1. Janet, I ate my Avatar

        very true
        I have heard some wemon say things that would be more severely condemned coming from a lads mouth
        Just in the interest of balance

      2. rotide

        I’m not sure how the ‘spit roast’ comment is the worst thing that was said in that group, it’s a fairly common term for the action it describes. I would have though the ‘any sluts get f—d’ comment would have offended people more.

  4. Scundered

    The conversation is only uncomfortable for you because you know you are connecting the actions of those four lads with the entire male race, which is as abhorrent as their private text messages.

    1. TheRealJane

      So these conversations are both typical, normal and harmless bants so women shouldn’t complain about it while also being totally atypical and tarring all men unfairly, so women shouldn’t talk about it.

      Makes sense.

      1. rotide

        You know the way some people have a glass of wine every so often and other people shoot up heroin every 8 hours?

        It’s a bit like that Jane,

        1. TheRealJane

          Yeah, that all people are different isn’t exactly my point. It’s that whether it’s common or rare, both reasons are given for women to pipe down.

  5. Brother Barnabas

    i’d add gender-segregated schools as a big factor in this (among men and women). it’s utterly unnatural, weird to separate boys and girls. (and also creates a nasty breeding ground for bullying)

      1. Brother Barnabas

        “actually”???

        you’re obviously not familiar with the fascinating contributions i regularly make

    1. Lush

      Very good point BB.
      I attended a girls-only boarding school up until the age of 11 and was then sent to a mixed secondary school. I hadn’t the faintest idea how to socialise or communicate with boys, so I didnit.
      I learnt later that, for their part, they found me cold and aloof and they were afraid to approach me. The situation had improved by the time we got to 15/16 years old, but I still remember the feeling of being completely bewildered and not a little uncomfortable.

      1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

        You were at a boarding school in primary? So was Mr Andy’s Dad: I think he was sent away when he was 6. How did you find that, Lush? There’s only one in Ireland, I think, and I saw a brief clip of it on telly and they looked like they were having a great time, but who knows.

        1. Lush

          Hey Andy. I was in Glengara Park in Dun Laoghaire; it no longer exists as they were subsumed by Rathdown. It wasn’t a very positive experience. My little sister was packed off at the same time, at the age of four, to Aravon in Bray and had a ghastly time, the headmaster was a most unpleasant man. As far as I know it no longer exists, thank God.
          I think the place you are thinking of is Headfort in Kells, and yes, it does seem to be a good spot; inasmuch as sending your child away at the age of 6 or 7 can be a good thing.

          1. Brother Barnabas

            did they have royal blue uniforms with way shorter skirts than other schools? i used to cycle past there on my way to and from.
            is aravon owned by chris de burgh?
            isn’t there a quaker boarding school in waterford?
            so many questions

          2. Lush

            Yes Brother, Glengara had a blue uniform, though I can’t remember how long the skirts were, though you obviously can!
            As for Aravon, Chris de Burgh tried to save it (being an ex-pupil) but I think it went into liquidation all the same.
            And yes, Newtown School in Waterford was founded by the Quakers back in the 1700s, but I was only referencing boarding schools for kids of primary school age.

  6. Not On Your Nelly

    “Toxic masculinity” what a negative American buzzword. Twitter speak. Feminist articles plastered with it, it’s nearly lost all meaning. If it has any.

    Toxic femininity mightn’t be a buzzword but it’s gaining ground as an attitude. I’m not on any side but my sex has ruled me out of having any real input. Holding a sign at a protest and agreeing is my job.

    I will keep retweeting and thumbs upping though. I have no choice.

  7. postmanpat

    Hozier? “lads..”? Sweet mother of god what the F is he talking about? The music industry lecturing about sexism? Consent is sexy? What? Id hate to be the next non sports connected young fella with false charges raised against him, because that guy is getting nailed to the wall because of hastag affirmative action or whatever comes next. Here’s my two cents: Girls, please watch yourself around sport team types and music industry types. They have a reputation of being pigs at best and are too popular to go to jail when they rape someone, they are essentially above the law and they know it. Most male sport stars and musicians hate women. It’s been documented for decades.

  8. SOQ

    The internet is great, I love it, but I fear that it is objectifying sex. It is now the first and probably only place young people learn about sex. And porn is not real world, it is acting, badly. It does not convey the depth of emotion two people feel who know and if not love then certainly like each other. And it is addictive, highly so in some cases and creates all sorts of impossible expectations.

    You can be nearly certain that all of those who tagged #ibelievehim were male. Why is that? Why is it that srt8 men are so much more likely to disbelieve a female rape victim? The amount of fake claims to reach a courtroom are marginal if any so why such a refusal to give her the benefit of the doubt? I just don’t get it.

    1. Frilly Keane

      Since you mentioned Fake Claims Q

      Where are the lads on the Fake Orgasm

      Do ye feel ye were misled?
      Inadequate?
      Angry?
      Guilty?
      Wha’

      #AskingForAFriend

  9. Bandwagon jumper

    Can we also speak about female attitude to other females . Lots of women call other women slutty.I can recall such a description used by a female in a case in Belfast. Unfair to use Paddy Jackson pic to accompany this article. Women now want to be treated as children. It is a joke !! Thanks Annmarie for jumping on the bandwagon. Again.

    1. The Ghost of Starina

      “Lots of women call other women slutty.”

      It’s called internalised misogyny

    2. Nigel

      Not wanting to be raped is asking to be treated as children? Is a bandwagon? Seriously dysfunctional attitudes at work here.

      1. The Ghost of Starina

        it’s all part of the infinite variations on “there, there, now sit down and do be quiet, ladies”

    3. TheRealJane

      The problem is that we’re talking about rape and consent. Now, obviously there is a crossover with regarding other people respectfully, but even if women often have poor attitudes towards other women, it’s not great but these attitudes from men are causing very serious, often fatal, harm. I see that it’s not something that MRAs like to talk about, but male violence and the attitudes underpinning it are a very serious problem for women.

      Deflect no more. Women are now officially sick of it.

  10. fergalfurious

    All women who think like McNally should start wearing capotains with bright buckles on the front to raise awareness of their anachronistic beliefs on free speech and the likelihood I’ll find myself in flagrante delicto halfway through a consentual, but evolving, encounter.

        1. The Ghost of Starina

          The number of false accusations is absolutely minuscule and while damaging when they do occur, are mainly used as a statistic to shush women.

          1. SOQ

            @fergalfurious

            False claims are usually blocked long before the ever make it to a courtroom. Also, a not guilty verdict ≠ false claim, just not proven beyond reasonable doubt.

            The UK home office estimates around 4% but even then, the way in which some cases are categorised is under dispute. Do you have a link to those FBI stats please?

            https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/false-sexual-violence-assault-rape-allegations-truth-rare-international-day-for-the-elimination-of-a8077876.html

          2. fergalfurious

            @SOQ
            ” As with all other Crime Index offenses, complaints of
            forcible rape made to law enforcement agencies are sometimes
            found to be false or baseless. In such cases, law enforcement
            agencies “unfound” the offenses and exclude them from crime
            counts. The “unfounded” rate, or percentage of complaints
            determined through investigation to be false, is higher for forcible
            rape than for any other Index crime. Eight percent of
            forcible rape complaints in 1996 were “unfounded,” while the
            average for all Index crimes was 2 percent. ”
            Page 24: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/1996/96sec2.pdf
            Brother Barnabas will be along with a 2-page essay on why the FBI is wrong momentarily.

          3. Brother Barnabas

            @SOQ

            fergal’s been peddling this 8% figure for a while now. he knows it’s utterly misleading but it suits his agenda so he persists.

            it comes from the FBI’s annual report on crimes in US from 1992 – yes, 26 years ago; it hasn’t been repeated precisely because it was recognised as being a pointless and misleading statistic open to being abused by misogynists with an agenda (hello fergal!)

            first of all, it didn’t actually say that 8% of rape claim are false. it said 8% of rape claims are “unfounded”, meaning they didn’t meet the legal criteria for rape as defined at the time by the FBI. the FBI’s definition at the time was from 1929. among other things, this definition excluded rape of men; rape within marriage or relationship; rape by an ex-partner; rape where there was no evidence of physical resistance. it also included “false claims” (all false claims are unfounded claims, but, obviously, not all unfounded are false).

          4. Brother Barnabas

            @fergal

            did you read your own cut-and-paste? you’re not even pretending well. it says “unfounded”, not “false”. thick.

          5. SOQ

            @ fergalfurious

            What that index omits to say is that most false claims are not made against a particular individual, therefore are unfounded surely? Personally I’d be taking the UK figures as a lot closer to Ireland because of both cultural similarities and way more up to date data.

            But, you do make a valid point that some fellas are afraid that the same thing could happen to them. Like most fears however, it really is unfounded.

          6. fergalfurious

            @Brother Barnabas
            @SOQ
            “false or baseless” is what it says.
            False: factually proven to have never occurred.
            Baseless: the repoted incident does not constitute a crime.
            I hope that clears things up.
            As for it being from 26 years ago; yeah, that’s when the ludicrous agenda that women must be believed no matter what they say became fashionable.

          7. Brother Barnabas

            @ fergal

            read your own comment. you quoted:

            “Eight percent of forcible rape complaints in 1996 were “unfounded,” while the
            average for all Index crimes was 2 percent. ”

            it says “unfounded”

            i don’t believe anyone could be quite as stupid as you’re coming off, so this can only be pointless trolling. so we’ll leave it at that,

        2. The Ghost of Starina

          @fergalfurious and only 10-40% of rapes are even reported. (figure varies depending on report; I’m going by the Washington Post)

          1. fergalfurious

            I doubt the Washington Post is in the business of counting things they couldn’t possibly know about. Do me a favour and find out who they’re quoting.
            You may as well say 99.9% if you’re just going to make things up.

          2. The Ghost of Starina

            you can find the article yourself, it’s the first result on Google, and they lay out all their sources.

            Fergal, why are you so invested in defending rape culture?

          3. fergalfurious

            No rape occurred in the case which has caused all this hysteria.
            But of course you know that.

          4. SOQ

            @fergalfurious

            After all the statements made on the previous couple of threads on this subject, I mean seriously?

            In the eyes of the law, a not guilty verdict ≠ innocence, just not proven beyond reasonable doubt.

          5. fergalfurious

            @SOQ
            It doesn’t matter what you believe about the case or the vagaries of the UK & NI jurisprudence.
            Verdict means truth. If you can’t accept that then you’re not aligned with reality.

          6. Owen C

            Not guilty = innocence in the very important sense that they were always considered innocent until proven guilty and that remains the case today. All you can say about the verdict is that it doesn’t prove what happened with any 100% certainty, but absent a guilty verdict i don’t know if any case can ever do that.

          7. SOQ

            @Owen C

            Once more for Jesus. Not guilty verdict ≠ innocence, just not proven beyond reasonable doubt. That is the law. The system needs to change, especially in NI. Their conviction rates are appallingly low.

            And back on topic, no education or debate about consent is going to change anything until srt8 men ask themselves why they don’t believe women when they say they have been raped. It really is that simple.

          1. dav

            still feeling threatened, eh? Not to worry, I’m reasonably sure, you’ll never find yourself in a situation when a woman will falsely accuse you of rape.

  11. Sir Adolf Von Bratwurst

    In International news Two Kenyan rugby players allegedly sexually assaulted a Kenyan pop singer.

    Google it.

  12. The Ghost of Starina

    a male friend of mine tried to justify those WhatsApp messages to me saying, “you know lads have said stuff about you, right?” ah DUH but there’s a difference between “she’s a ride” bants and “yer one was hysterical, it was never going to end well”.

    never ceases to gross me out how so many men put so much effort into defending obvious misogyny. If yous put that much effort into something productive we might have, I dunno, less homelessness or something.

    1. fergalfurious

      Next you’ll be telling us that women are incapable of being dirty-minded or filthy-mouthed.

  13. Shane Duffy

    What is the socially acceptable term for Spit Roasting then? Or are we to pretend it just doesn’t happen now?

    1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

      It’s not the term. It’s bragging about it coz you’re a top shagger.

    2. SOQ

      Well, roasting usually requires a couple of reasonably sized skewers so technically most are not.

      Dum de dum.

  14. Owen C

    Did i ever tell you about the mansplaining allegation which Anne Marie made and never apologised for or retracted? Good times

        1. anne

          I’m still waiting on my apology too.. re banks – tracker scandal & Stephen Donnelly on the radio & the massive haircuts the vultures got.

        1. Bertie Blenkinsop

          I’d be happy with a score draw as I can’t see City failing to score, that said, plenty of great teams have wilted under the noise of a packed Enfield.

          1. Brother Barnabas

            true

            but really can’t see liverpool front 3 not scoring either

            hoping for 2 high scoring games

          2. bertie blenkinsop

            The worst part is I’ll be in college, I’ll only catch the last half hour :(

  15. max

    Personally i think some one should rewrite the whatsapp conversation of the impromptu drunken orgy in a way that is respectful to all parties, rather than harp on about it being krass. Perhaps all those knocks to the head has left them with a very limited vocabulary It’s kind of hard to describe a one night stand with multiple partners as anything but crass.

  16. Frilly Keane

    Wasn’t life much simpler when all we had to know was
    Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus

    now known as the good ol’days
    I suppose

    1. Martco

      and isn’t life much simpler when we all just treat each other with a wee bit of kindness & love & respect?

      social media, lack of co-education, lad culture, communication skills, the telly, this that and t’other, lots of reasonings & excuses above

      but in the end — i think anyways it’s a lack of the basics — having respect for your fellow human & the bit of cop to realise that you can’t just TAKE something

  17. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

    Do you know what’s missing in the world these days? Kindness. It’s a virtue that needs to be extolled more.

    1. Brother Barnabas

      +1
      and basic, fundamental respect for other people
      they’re the things we “need to have a conversation about”. and if we get that right, problems of misogyny, consent etc will be taken care of by default

          1. Yep

            Not when I dropped the hand?

            In the spirit of goodwill, I too am sorry for the negative vibes. Misunderstanding.

  18. Paul Wahl

    She lost me at…

    “in a society which has pretty much always downgraded us to second-class citizens”

    1. TheRealJane

      So not being allowed to vote, own property, work, study, currently being legally the same as a foetus…

      1. Brother Barnabas

        it’s when they get all uppity with their opinions and stuff that it gets annoying imo

  19. KONA

    “Stuart Olding’s statement after the verdict recognised that the complainant had a ‘different perception’ of what occurred that night. This in itself can be taken as an indication that negotiated and enthusiastic consent was absent” uh no it cant. It means there were different perspectives of what was happening.

    1. TheRealJane

      Surely they would have had the same perspective if negotiated and enthusiastic consent was in place?

      Isn’t that the point of negotiated and enthusiastic consent? That they both agree?

      1. missred

        Imagine if Twink gave a lecture on consent and scared the fellas into copping on. I’d love to see that classroom

  20. rotide

    Couldn’t agree more that there could be more conversations about consent, however this article spends half the time talking about private messages sent between a load of young lads having ‘the bantz’. Regardless of how crass you feel they are, they don’t indicate a willingness to rape anyone and they certainly don’t break any laws.

    Every single ONE of you commenting here has a a text or IM or something said late at night in a pub that you would be uncomfortable about being made public out of context. If you claim you don’t, you’re lying.

    It’s fascinating how of all the aspects to the trial, the texts are held up as the holy grail of proof that these guys are the scum of the earth. In my opinion, the only reason the flasher guy was even included in the prosecution was to get 90% of the objectionable messages into evidence seeing as he wrote most of them. Hell, the ‘worst’ one wasn’t even written by anyone on trial (although I see now he has been suspended due to the great god of public opinion).

    Like Bort said at the very top of these comments, it’s a simple fact of life that people write stuff in ‘jest’ that they just do not mean. Everyone does it. Everyone. It’s hysterical reading some people saying ‘well i’m sure i don’t know anyone who has ever said anything like this’ as if all their friends were the virgin mary.

    1. Nigel

      They had the bantz she got to bleed into the seat of the taxi. At the end of the day this is about the gulf between experiences and perceptions, and how many women recognise that gulf.

      1. rotide

        This is the problem with the texts, they look horrific out of context. I refer you to the third paragraph of my comment.

        1. Nigel

          I think the whole ‘these are the facts of life’ attitude is starting to wear thin on people especially when that attitude is essentially an expression of indifference to women who might be on the receiving end of that kind of thing. It’s asserting that the context in the trial is an exceptional one.

          1. rotide

            The context in the trial was exceptional. Without a doubt, these guys didn’t learn this sort of indifference in a vacuum. It’s a tangent I’m unwilling to go down though, seeing as the defense even decided it was a bad idea. (probably because It’s no way a defense for rape but it does go some way to explaining why they thought these comments were fine to make)

          1. rotide

            Interesting that you think you’ve seen them in context when the entire text history hasn’t been published anywhere

    2. Catherine costelloe

      That is certainly true re texting and spontaneous replies. Its fun and harmless .If the texts my friend and I exchange when our team is playing we would get an A for bad language. The ref, the goalie, the opponents all get it . All forgotten when match is over. All our texts thereafter are polite.

        1. Brother Barnabas

          Ah I was only jokingly responding to your “it’s hysterical that some people are saying….”

          (by the way, ro, “the flasher guy”? give him his name at least)

    3. TheRealJane

      Nobody is saying that all their personal texts would be a delight to hear read out in public but what the texts show is a level of crass indifference to the woman here and it sounds habitual, like they have no better way to speak about women with whom they’ve been involved. They even terrible about women who considered them friends. And if you’re claiming that that’s normal, I find that really depressing.

      What’s wrong with having casual, consensual sex and then being nice about the other party? Saying that it was fun, good night had by all etc? It’s probably not massive bantz and all but still it’s possible to have a laugh, even about another person, without being so awful about them.

      Women, overall, are a bit shocked by the simple, unabashed callousness, I think. That girl was hysterical and bleeding according to evidence given in court and they hadn’t the barest interest. You wouldn’t treat a dog like that.

  21. jusayinlike

    Can’t we all just be friends?

    I love this site..

    Don’t let FFGLAB beloved data commissioner shut it down..

  22. SOQ

    Ok I will make a final comment on this subject. I hold the utmost respect and admiration for the girl who pursued the Belfast claim. Backbone * 10 and a woman to be reckoned with I think.

    But Paddy and Stewart were also telling the truth. After ten pints+, any hole is a goal but you are grown men now so instead of pissing into the wind of the internet, apologise to the girl for how you treated her. No nonsense about liability, just sorry, end of.

    1. SOQ

      Pamela Ballantine is available for interview but without the fridge LED lighting from the UTV… obviously.

  23. michael walsh

    A rape allegation against 4 defendants facing at least 16 charges is a difficult trial.
    However, the judge directs that the jurors must be 100% certain that the defendants are innocent
    Following on from that direction, does that mean the jurors are 100% certain, that young girl was lying?

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