dunno about you two but I have zero confidence in any of this so far
& I smell a circling of wagons
GiggidyGoo
They’re trying to circle the wagons alright. I think there are too many people affected by this to ensure the circle is strong enough. For instance, what if Varadkar was contacted by a victim when he was health minister? And there was a paper trail?
This thing of redactions as well gets me.
david
MY point exactly a criminal investigation
Nothing less
All computers sized before they try and destroy any proof including HSE
And they want the eight removed ,and everyone at the mercy of what they will be putting in place regarding legislation
Another point is bowl screening for cancer is apparently handled by the same company
What if the same mistakes were made
And this time it affects men and women
Harris must be removed
We are talking manslaughter
ReproBertie (SCU)
Stop trying to make this a reason to reject the referendum. The 8th Amendment is not fit for purpose and needs to go.
The Ghost of Starina
Well, david, my computer size is about 1920 x 1080. what’s a bowl screening, though? Does it involve singing bowls?
Nigel
You can tell david’s ranting is all a performance because he claims to think that shoddy health treatment for women is a reason for keeping the 8th, a constitutional guarantee of shoddy health treatment for women.
david
NIGEL
REPO BERTIE
AND THE GHOST OF SARINA
Bowl screening is a process using a endoscopy
You know the tube the put in Both ends of you that is a camera and it takes samples to be screened for if they could be cancerous
They jumps like jackels on all I say trying to pick out anything to discredit me sadly the only thing they can fault is grammar spelling punctuation
Sadly they can not add one thing except bull poop
SOQ
I wonder if this crazy poo is going to influence the referendum in any way?
italia'90
Is there going to be a mass protest?
Will you come and march if called do to so?
Surely we should be taking to the streets to voice our anger and finally tell these overpaid incompetents
Enough IS Enough!
I’m embarrassed to be part of the Irish state sometimes.
We marched against the Irish Water debacle.
Some of us marched and protested against the bankers and bondholders bail outs.
There was only a few of us, and yes, we wondered where the Puck the rest of you were?
Other nations wouldn’t tolerate this level of incompetence and corruption with every scandal
that occurs within our failed government departments run for the benefit of the few at the expense
of the rest of us.
This government is nothing more than a privileged PR Club only interested in deflecting the utter chaos and omnishambles that it presides over(and probably every preceding government).
Where is the reset button? We need a New Republic that is citizen centric and where the people come first,
not the organisation that is controlled by the many vested interests.
Catherine costelloe
I would protest.
jusayinlike
+1 italia’90
Martco
definitely
Sam
Just print up large P45s instead of the usual banners… feicers need firing, jailing, and hard labour as restorative justice, building or renovating public housing.
GiggidyGoo
I’ll go. We now need a walk of shame, similar to what the Icelandic people did to their failures.
david
Only if it includes cattle prods
B.BLACK
.
The Ghost of Starina
I have marched several timea, and will continue to do so.
david
March?
Come on italia
I am too busy working to pay my taxes and to employ people
I will vote them out and I know stand up to this state you will be buried
So march away and have a goodie time
Remember everyone is on their own mercy to this shower
Roll on brexit
Empower yourself
The Ghost of Starina
david are you aware that it’s persistent marches that brought about our current referendum?
david
You mean abortion on demand
And not one hospital can be guaranteed abortion on demand including the new 300 million NMH which has a catholic church board and the doctors hired will be able to opt out
26 women last year had abortions in Irish hospitals because of endangering their lives and a chief consultant stated that savita’s death was not due to the eight because other hospitals would of saved her while the doctors who tended her put their moral ethos over delivering care
If 26 abortions were legally performed in Ireland last year and the stats are there, this puts paid to the argument the pro choice have been peddling
Google it
Its not fake news its the truth
I think the year before the numbers were also the same
david
The fact O’Brien is still there shows that government have learned nothing
The only thing acceptable now is the removal of the whole government
That is only achieved by another election
They know exactly what the truth is and we are talking redress scheme
As in the Irish taxpayer pays for this crime
Not O’Brien
Not the public servants which cause this
Not the company that cocked up
Even journalists are saying if he is sacked O’Brien can claim constructive dismissal
This sums up our nation
As our politicians haul O’Brien in front of the show tribunal the feined rage and the civilised proceedings which will put this to bed
Its a joke and for god sake nothing less than a criminal case is simply not good enough
And listening to avail power failed TD or failed to get the role now head of the Irish cancer society through being in the clique gives me no hope that things will change
italia'90
Be honest for a change Charger.
You’re too busy trolling here and The Journal to think of anybody else’s troubles
or lack of equality or fairness or opportunity or dignity.
It’s all about YOU!
It’s the I’m all right Jack attitude I expect from selfish prix that have us where we are.
Do me a favour can you?
Apologise to every woman or girl you meet today. We have failed them miserably by allowing this kleptocratic state get so out of control.
Voting changes nothing.
FF and FG are different ends of the same rancid piece of Shite with Labour acting as the glue that keeps it together.
We are capable of a better.
We must demand better outcomes.
We must demand accountability and serious consequences for failure, corruption or ineptitude.
Otherwise, you will get a SF government.
You think it’s bad now, just wait…
Nigel
Yeah, you will reliably find that the ones screaming loudest at this government about everything are also the ones most invested in keeping the status quo, who will mock and deride protests and activism of any kind. For a gauge as to their real attitudes to making positive changes, take a look at their responses to the cycle campaigns.
italia'90
Have to agree with you there Nigel.
The anti cycle safety campaigners and begrudgers are another example of the selfish nature of modern Ireland and how vested interests are gaming the system to their benefit.
Speaking of which, go to the Journal article on Motorists Urged to be more aware of cyclists…. it’s both depressing and entertaining.
Also, there appears to be some serious censorship on the Cervical Cancer story.
Nearly 6,000 views and only 6 comments. The Cyclist article has 4,500 views and over 70 comments. I smell a rat.
david
March away till your hearts content
The ship is sinking the new revelation of O’Brien double jobbing is quite amusing with boy Harris giving him his blessing
So go along on your little march and I have a great dog who can ensure you sheepleb full of outrage will be herded into the pen outside the barriers
Make sure you wear your repeal logo’s
david
Look abortion on demand will solve nothing
And you have you view I have mine
If abortion is not permitted under the eight amendment to save lives well why were 26 legal abortions performed in 2016 as the statistics state
Savita died due to the refusal of the doctors to save her life
They used the eight amendment as an excuse
The Ghost of Starina
If the 8th isn’t there, it can’t be used as an excuse :D
Otis Blue
And which of the three stooges in CSW will you vote out?
And what difference will it make to this particular issue?
B.BLACK
.
Nigel
You know what you need to do as well, though? You need to get involved. You need to e-mail or write to or phone your political representatives, local and national, and voice your opinions and raise your concerns directly to them. Regularly. You need to sign petitions. You need to hit the streets, canvas and leaflet and pound the pavement for movements and campaigns. You need to either run for office yourself, or give your time/energy/money to someone who is themselves running for office. You need to endure a barrage of cynicism and loathing, accusations of being a moaner, an SJW, a snowflake. Every compromise, and there will be compromises, will be used as proof that you are exactly the same as all the rest, which is a refusal to acknowledge that change will never come from the top down, and only from the ground up, necessitating engaging with a horribly flawed system that requires compromise, which will be used to destroy and denigrate you – cf the Greens. Remember the people who are the MOST cynical are the people who will attack you for trying to change anything, because cynical is as cynical does.
Protest, yes, vote, yes. But both are limited without engagement between protests and votes. The Repeal the 8th campaign has been steady and focused and grass-roots, and look what it achieved in the face of social, cultural and institutional inertia. But of course they’re a bunch of man-hating radical feminists with off-putting ideas and slogans about women’s bodies women’s choices and such. You get the idea?
(The anti-water charges campaign is another example – but though I always thought that it was absolutely spot-on about objecting to incompetence and corruption, it was wrong about objecting to water charges on principle and single-issued and self-contradicted itself into a dead end.)
Martco
+1 Nigel
however on the part where u say that “you need to run for office yourself” that’s easier said than done. that in itself is a closed shop….you need A LOT OF MONEY & support to achieve this, therein you have identified a major fault in our political system – dynasties & people with access to lots of cash &/or connections only need apply to sit at the trough.
Nigel
Oh, it’s definitely the hardest part, and even with all things being equal, not for everyone, which is why getting involved with a candidate’s campaign is something people should consider doing, if they have the time and energy. Which, again, not everyone does.
italia'90
I have that T-shirt Nigel. Was once very involved in local politics, helped 3 candidates get elected onto county councils and others who didn’t. One of those Councillors is now in opposition in the Dáil. I was a local party organiser and campaign director. Fought 2 EU Treaties. And more. Then I put myself forward for candidature, but the local Mullah saw me as a treat to his ambitions and consequently I was stabbed in the back by those who encouraged me to go forward. Didn’t stop me staying active, I just found other like minded people to campaign with who are not party aligned. And we still do. You need a massive reserve of financial and human resources to get elected as you know.
I’m in favour of water charges, I have paid them in other countries and stated such before on here. I’m not in favour of Irish Water or privitisation. But thanks for Nigelsplaining it to me.
Nigel
You’ve been in the trenches then, fair play.
Ron
It was not the HSE which exposed this. It was not the Department of Health and Children which exposed this. It was not HIQA or any quango which exposed this. It was not politicians who exposed this. It was not the Irish Cancer Society which exposed this. It was not the medical profession which exposed this. It was not public governance which exposed this.
It was one brave woman, laboring under a terminal diagnosis, at risk of being bankrupted by legal costs and losing her home, under debilitating chemotheraby and radiotherapy who exposed all of this.
Public governance does not properly function in Ireland and never has. Scandal after scandal. Tribunal after tribunal. No accountability.
There needs to be a mass protest on the streets to force this Government and others out.
Enough is enough
david
To be honest you will not get near the dail
Or merrion square
When brexit happens will be the time
Fianna fail I assume are just waiting because any election coming the results will depend on the degree of damage done by this shower
This KAPO regime are digging the biggest hole for themselves and allowed to do this
The hole will be so deep they will put their party headquarters in Australia
I actually feel sorry for everyone on a mortgagee because interest rates will go through the roof
B.BLACK
.
SOQ
Who knew what so?
It may seem to be a side note but how is the HSE’s IT systems structured? The email is definitely centralised. Whoever is in charge of their FOI department may start recruiting new staff because they are about to get a lorry load of requests. Likewise the Department of Health.
ReproBerie (SCU)
Do we know if the audit happened before the cancer diagnosis or after?
The Irish Times says “She had a smear test in 2011 after the birth of her second child and it initially showed no abnormalities. She was diagnosed with cancer in 2014. That same year an audit of her 2011 test showed that it was not accurate.” That suggests the diagnosis was first but is that the case? Was the Audit routine or the result of people being diagnosed after earlier tests showed up as OK?
Donal
My understanding…
Test in 2011, reported negative
Test in 2014, reported positive, cancer diagnosed following further tests, thus 2011 test audited
ReproBertie (SCU)
That’s the way I see it too but I can’t see any confirmation of it.
Cian
She sued the US company that got her test wrong.
She didn’t sue the HSE. If the HSE knew the first test was wrong before they did the second (positive) one – she would have sued HSE too.
Cian
Here’s some interesting reading:
In May 2011 the patient received cervical cancer screening through CervicalCheck; no abnormalities were reported.
A subsequent (routine) screening through CervicalCheck in June 2014 detected high-grade abnormalities and the patient was diagnosed with cervical cancer in July 2014
CervicalCheck initiated a clinical audit of the patient’s case, as per protocol […], in September 2014
and further down In 2015 a decision was made by HSE, in line with international best practices, to provide information on outcomes of clinical cancer audits to treating clinicians for onward communication to patients as appropriate.
The outcomes of all current and historical clinical cancer audits were subsequently communicated to treating clinicians in 2016 (including this case)
and also “the [US lab’s] insurance company required complete confidentiality as a condition of any settlement and this was not acceptable to the plaintiff”
SOQ
Test in 2011, reported negative but was it? If not was the failure to report by the lab or the HSE?
Cian
the 2011 test was returned clear (incorrectly) in 2011; The was an error on the US company. They were sued for this, and paid out €2.5m.
I demand answers!
Truthful ones mind you. But when you’re expecting them from a liar https://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/04/21/what-can-be-done/
i think you’ll be waiting.
dunno about you two but I have zero confidence in any of this so far
& I smell a circling of wagons
They’re trying to circle the wagons alright. I think there are too many people affected by this to ensure the circle is strong enough. For instance, what if Varadkar was contacted by a victim when he was health minister? And there was a paper trail?
This thing of redactions as well gets me.
MY point exactly a criminal investigation
Nothing less
All computers sized before they try and destroy any proof including HSE
And they want the eight removed ,and everyone at the mercy of what they will be putting in place regarding legislation
Another point is bowl screening for cancer is apparently handled by the same company
What if the same mistakes were made
And this time it affects men and women
Harris must be removed
We are talking manslaughter
Stop trying to make this a reason to reject the referendum. The 8th Amendment is not fit for purpose and needs to go.
Well, david, my computer size is about 1920 x 1080. what’s a bowl screening, though? Does it involve singing bowls?
You can tell david’s ranting is all a performance because he claims to think that shoddy health treatment for women is a reason for keeping the 8th, a constitutional guarantee of shoddy health treatment for women.
NIGEL
REPO BERTIE
AND THE GHOST OF SARINA
Bowl screening is a process using a endoscopy
You know the tube the put in Both ends of you that is a camera and it takes samples to be screened for if they could be cancerous
They jumps like jackels on all I say trying to pick out anything to discredit me sadly the only thing they can fault is grammar spelling punctuation
Sadly they can not add one thing except bull poop
I wonder if this crazy poo is going to influence the referendum in any way?
Is there going to be a mass protest?
Will you come and march if called do to so?
Surely we should be taking to the streets to voice our anger and finally tell these overpaid incompetents
Enough IS Enough!
I’m embarrassed to be part of the Irish state sometimes.
We marched against the Irish Water debacle.
Some of us marched and protested against the bankers and bondholders bail outs.
There was only a few of us, and yes, we wondered where the Puck the rest of you were?
Other nations wouldn’t tolerate this level of incompetence and corruption with every scandal
that occurs within our failed government departments run for the benefit of the few at the expense
of the rest of us.
This government is nothing more than a privileged PR Club only interested in deflecting the utter chaos and omnishambles that it presides over(and probably every preceding government).
Where is the reset button? We need a New Republic that is citizen centric and where the people come first,
not the organisation that is controlled by the many vested interests.
I would protest.
+1 italia’90
definitely
Just print up large P45s instead of the usual banners… feicers need firing, jailing, and hard labour as restorative justice, building or renovating public housing.
I’ll go. We now need a walk of shame, similar to what the Icelandic people did to their failures.
Only if it includes cattle prods
.
I have marched several timea, and will continue to do so.
March?
Come on italia
I am too busy working to pay my taxes and to employ people
I will vote them out and I know stand up to this state you will be buried
So march away and have a goodie time
Remember everyone is on their own mercy to this shower
Roll on brexit
Empower yourself
david are you aware that it’s persistent marches that brought about our current referendum?
You mean abortion on demand
And not one hospital can be guaranteed abortion on demand including the new 300 million NMH which has a catholic church board and the doctors hired will be able to opt out
26 women last year had abortions in Irish hospitals because of endangering their lives and a chief consultant stated that savita’s death was not due to the eight because other hospitals would of saved her while the doctors who tended her put their moral ethos over delivering care
If 26 abortions were legally performed in Ireland last year and the stats are there, this puts paid to the argument the pro choice have been peddling
Google it
Its not fake news its the truth
I think the year before the numbers were also the same
The fact O’Brien is still there shows that government have learned nothing
The only thing acceptable now is the removal of the whole government
That is only achieved by another election
They know exactly what the truth is and we are talking redress scheme
As in the Irish taxpayer pays for this crime
Not O’Brien
Not the public servants which cause this
Not the company that cocked up
Even journalists are saying if he is sacked O’Brien can claim constructive dismissal
This sums up our nation
As our politicians haul O’Brien in front of the show tribunal the feined rage and the civilised proceedings which will put this to bed
Its a joke and for god sake nothing less than a criminal case is simply not good enough
And listening to avail power failed TD or failed to get the role now head of the Irish cancer society through being in the clique gives me no hope that things will change
Be honest for a change Charger.
You’re too busy trolling here and The Journal to think of anybody else’s troubles
or lack of equality or fairness or opportunity or dignity.
It’s all about YOU!
It’s the I’m all right Jack attitude I expect from selfish prix that have us where we are.
Do me a favour can you?
Apologise to every woman or girl you meet today. We have failed them miserably by allowing this kleptocratic state get so out of control.
Voting changes nothing.
FF and FG are different ends of the same rancid piece of Shite with Labour acting as the glue that keeps it together.
We are capable of a better.
We must demand better outcomes.
We must demand accountability and serious consequences for failure, corruption or ineptitude.
Otherwise, you will get a SF government.
You think it’s bad now, just wait…
Yeah, you will reliably find that the ones screaming loudest at this government about everything are also the ones most invested in keeping the status quo, who will mock and deride protests and activism of any kind. For a gauge as to their real attitudes to making positive changes, take a look at their responses to the cycle campaigns.
Have to agree with you there Nigel.
The anti cycle safety campaigners and begrudgers are another example of the selfish nature of modern Ireland and how vested interests are gaming the system to their benefit.
Speaking of which, go to the Journal article on Motorists Urged to be more aware of cyclists…. it’s both depressing and entertaining.
Also, there appears to be some serious censorship on the Cervical Cancer story.
Nearly 6,000 views and only 6 comments. The Cyclist article has 4,500 views and over 70 comments. I smell a rat.
March away till your hearts content
The ship is sinking the new revelation of O’Brien double jobbing is quite amusing with boy Harris giving him his blessing
So go along on your little march and I have a great dog who can ensure you sheepleb full of outrage will be herded into the pen outside the barriers
Make sure you wear your repeal logo’s
Look abortion on demand will solve nothing
And you have you view I have mine
If abortion is not permitted under the eight amendment to save lives well why were 26 legal abortions performed in 2016 as the statistics state
Savita died due to the refusal of the doctors to save her life
They used the eight amendment as an excuse
If the 8th isn’t there, it can’t be used as an excuse :D
And which of the three stooges in CSW will you vote out?
And what difference will it make to this particular issue?
.
You know what you need to do as well, though? You need to get involved. You need to e-mail or write to or phone your political representatives, local and national, and voice your opinions and raise your concerns directly to them. Regularly. You need to sign petitions. You need to hit the streets, canvas and leaflet and pound the pavement for movements and campaigns. You need to either run for office yourself, or give your time/energy/money to someone who is themselves running for office. You need to endure a barrage of cynicism and loathing, accusations of being a moaner, an SJW, a snowflake. Every compromise, and there will be compromises, will be used as proof that you are exactly the same as all the rest, which is a refusal to acknowledge that change will never come from the top down, and only from the ground up, necessitating engaging with a horribly flawed system that requires compromise, which will be used to destroy and denigrate you – cf the Greens. Remember the people who are the MOST cynical are the people who will attack you for trying to change anything, because cynical is as cynical does.
Protest, yes, vote, yes. But both are limited without engagement between protests and votes. The Repeal the 8th campaign has been steady and focused and grass-roots, and look what it achieved in the face of social, cultural and institutional inertia. But of course they’re a bunch of man-hating radical feminists with off-putting ideas and slogans about women’s bodies women’s choices and such. You get the idea?
(The anti-water charges campaign is another example – but though I always thought that it was absolutely spot-on about objecting to incompetence and corruption, it was wrong about objecting to water charges on principle and single-issued and self-contradicted itself into a dead end.)
+1 Nigel
however on the part where u say that “you need to run for office yourself” that’s easier said than done. that in itself is a closed shop….you need A LOT OF MONEY & support to achieve this, therein you have identified a major fault in our political system – dynasties & people with access to lots of cash &/or connections only need apply to sit at the trough.
Oh, it’s definitely the hardest part, and even with all things being equal, not for everyone, which is why getting involved with a candidate’s campaign is something people should consider doing, if they have the time and energy. Which, again, not everyone does.
I have that T-shirt Nigel. Was once very involved in local politics, helped 3 candidates get elected onto county councils and others who didn’t. One of those Councillors is now in opposition in the Dáil. I was a local party organiser and campaign director. Fought 2 EU Treaties. And more. Then I put myself forward for candidature, but the local Mullah saw me as a treat to his ambitions and consequently I was stabbed in the back by those who encouraged me to go forward. Didn’t stop me staying active, I just found other like minded people to campaign with who are not party aligned. And we still do. You need a massive reserve of financial and human resources to get elected as you know.
I’m in favour of water charges, I have paid them in other countries and stated such before on here. I’m not in favour of Irish Water or privitisation. But thanks for Nigelsplaining it to me.
You’ve been in the trenches then, fair play.
It was not the HSE which exposed this. It was not the Department of Health and Children which exposed this. It was not HIQA or any quango which exposed this. It was not politicians who exposed this. It was not the Irish Cancer Society which exposed this. It was not the medical profession which exposed this. It was not public governance which exposed this.
It was one brave woman, laboring under a terminal diagnosis, at risk of being bankrupted by legal costs and losing her home, under debilitating chemotheraby and radiotherapy who exposed all of this.
Public governance does not properly function in Ireland and never has. Scandal after scandal. Tribunal after tribunal. No accountability.
There needs to be a mass protest on the streets to force this Government and others out.
Enough is enough
To be honest you will not get near the dail
Or merrion square
When brexit happens will be the time
Fianna fail I assume are just waiting because any election coming the results will depend on the degree of damage done by this shower
This KAPO regime are digging the biggest hole for themselves and allowed to do this
The hole will be so deep they will put their party headquarters in Australia
I actually feel sorry for everyone on a mortgagee because interest rates will go through the roof
.
Who knew what so?
It may seem to be a side note but how is the HSE’s IT systems structured? The email is definitely centralised. Whoever is in charge of their FOI department may start recruiting new staff because they are about to get a lorry load of requests. Likewise the Department of Health.
Do we know if the audit happened before the cancer diagnosis or after?
The Irish Times says “She had a smear test in 2011 after the birth of her second child and it initially showed no abnormalities. She was diagnosed with cancer in 2014. That same year an audit of her 2011 test showed that it was not accurate.” That suggests the diagnosis was first but is that the case? Was the Audit routine or the result of people being diagnosed after earlier tests showed up as OK?
My understanding…
Test in 2011, reported negative
Test in 2014, reported positive, cancer diagnosed following further tests, thus 2011 test audited
That’s the way I see it too but I can’t see any confirmation of it.
She sued the US company that got her test wrong.
She didn’t sue the HSE. If the HSE knew the first test was wrong before they did the second (positive) one – she would have sued HSE too.
Here’s some interesting reading:
In May 2011 the patient received cervical cancer screening through CervicalCheck; no abnormalities were reported.
A subsequent (routine) screening through CervicalCheck in June 2014 detected high-grade abnormalities and the patient was diagnosed with cervical cancer in July 2014
CervicalCheck initiated a clinical audit of the patient’s case, as per protocol […], in September 2014
and further down
In 2015 a decision was made by HSE, in line with international best practices, to provide information on outcomes of clinical cancer audits to treating clinicians for onward communication to patients as appropriate.
The outcomes of all current and historical clinical cancer audits were subsequently communicated to treating clinicians in 2016 (including this case)
http://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/0864_001.pdf
and also “the [US lab’s] insurance company required complete confidentiality as a condition of any settlement and this was not acceptable to the plaintiff”
Test in 2011, reported negative but was it? If not was the failure to report by the lab or the HSE?
the 2011 test was returned clear (incorrectly) in 2011; The was an error on the US company. They were sued for this, and paid out €2.5m.
Irish women really do get a rough deal. My God!
Jeebus…. wha’…. London May Day muppets praise Stalin and Jong-un
https://twitter.com/IncMonocle/status/991297493555208193?s=19
Bunch o’ fools :)
Ah, you can’t beat the Express for truly hilarious front pages ;-)