Wrapped In Love

at

Um.

Abe Neiihum writes:

Ballot cards were delivered wrapped in this pamphlet. I already placed a complaint with my local An Post. Would be a good idea to make sure none of this carry-on happens again. Report immediately if either campaign is encouraged in this way

Anyone?

Thanks Jess Kav

82 thoughts on “Wrapped In Love

    1. js

      Absolutely it does. Whatever side of the debate you are on. Imagine if your voting card for the next general election came inside a Fianna Fail manifesto?

    2. mildred st. meadowlark

      I’d say you’d be pretty pissed if it was a Repeal leaflet, so… yes.

      Voting cards should arrive without any link to a bias.

          1. newsjustin

            No I wouldn’t. This is just a matter of people’s post being bundled together.

            Not some grand conspiracy.

          2. mildred st. meadowlark

            I think if roles were reversed, I’d say you’d be none too pleased.

            It’s oh so easy to say that you’d react one way or another, but the truth is you can’t know til it happens to you.

            If it were me, I’d be pissed, and be having a sharp word with the postman.

    3. IonaLotOfProblems

      Yes… it really really does matter and is in fact an absolute disgrace.

  1. Sheik Yahbouti

    I concur. Interference with democracy. (Can’t wait for this to be over).

    1. newsjustin

      The polling card is now tainted and the voter cannot make up their mind after seeing a No leaflet touching the polling card.

      1. Brother Barnabas

        to the simple minded, this could be interpreted as tacit backing for a No vote from official Ireland. and seeing as those with any inclination to vote No have a fawning regarding for invisible authority and tradition, this could be the clincher

        1. ReproBertie (SCU)

          The simple minded have already been brow beaten into voting No by their “spiritual guides”.

        2. John Colgan

          No, not a tacit support for a No vote from official Ireland, but a tacit support from a Post Office official. Membership of clandestine, subversive Churchy organisations should be banned in public officials from Presidents, Taoiseach down to the postman and made an offence. Garret Fitzgerald, as Taoiseach, insisted that his Ministers be not members of Opus Dei and similar. I am reliably informed that a President and a Taoiseach attended a meeting of Opus Dei while in office; it is not acceptable.

          1. newsjustin

            Should I be worried about my postman?

            He’s 6 foot 4. Albino. Mumbles a lot in Latin.

  2. Ronan

    A cynic could suggest the hope here is that a repealer throws the leaflet in the bin without looking at it, together with their ballot paper. And never realise they received one and dumped it.

  3. Frill the 8th

    well I got that leaflet in the door this morning
    and yer wan, only in the door herself now, laughs at the No. 1 The government’s plan will lead to more abortions
    and says
    Of course it will
    just like same sex marriage one led to more gay weddings

    She’s barely 14
    she couldn’t tell if Government should be a capital G or not tho

    anyone

      1. Brother Barnabas

        (except it did actually lead to more gay weddings- because that was the whole point of it)

    1. Brother Barnabas

      and you said, “course not, you daft young one, it’s not a proper noun”, right?

        1. Janet, I ate my Avatar

          He makes grammar sexy
          I blame the knickerless leather pencil skirt

          1. Frill the 8th

            Here
            He no more wore a leather skirt without drawers
            T’ the George
            Than George the dog off de Telly did

          2. mildred st. meadowlark

            You’re right frilly.

            It was a rather beautifully tailored jaconde wrap skirt. He was the classiest bird there that night.

      1. Starina

        ehmmm…well if it’s referring to the current ruling Government as opposed to the general structure of government…then yes, capital G.

    2. ReproBertie (SCU)

      Statistics show that legalising abortion, while obviously leading to an initial increase as we’ll be going from it being unavailable to available, will result in a decrease in rates.

      The main reason appears to be the aftercare which can happen due to people being able to discuss abortion with their GP.

      Abortion rates across North America and the EU are at their lowest for 30 years.

        1. Repro-choice Bertie

          It’s down to the after care which cannot be provided here as doctors are not allowed discuss abortion meaning women who have abortions will only return to the doctor if something went wrong. A large portion of the after care is about contraception, something else that the Love Boats people are against.

          1. Paul

            So you’re saying it’s down to the after care of which a large portion consists of contraception?

            Couldn’t we just improve our contraception offerings (surely this can be done outside of the setting of abortion after care ) and if we did would it make you point kinda redundant?

          2. Repro-choice Bertie

            Ah Paul, if only it was that simple. We’ve had 35 years of “let’s improve sex ed” and “let’s support mothers more” and nothing has happened. Do you really think the fundamentalist catholics running the Love Boats campaign will suddenly be on board with it now? They’ve fought against contraception for years. The 8th was only added because the high court granted access to spermicidal cream and the RCC freaked that abortion would be next.

            No doubt the birth and abortion rates are decreasing due to access to contraception but that doesn’t remove the need for access to safe and legal abortion in Ireland.

      1. Sentient Won

        It’s because he US has been tightening the regulations: access to Abortion is being limited more and more.

      2. Sentient Won

        US regulations have tightened in recent years: access to Abortion is more restricted, which is why the rates of abortion are decreasing.

        Legalising Abortion does not reduce the incidents of Abortion. To think otherwise is fallacy.

        1. Repro-choice Bertie

          US regulations don’t apply in Canada or Europe where rates are dropping due to after care which, in many cases, is little more than a discussion on contraceptive options.

          The “fallacy” is backed up by the statistics.

          1. Paul

            And contraceptive options can only be discussed in the context of abortion after care?

            Couldn’t we like do contraception separately and so lower abortion rates accordingly?

            Seems kind of disingenuous the way you are suggesting that improved access to abortion decreases the amount of abortions when in fact it’s improved access to contraception decreases abortion rates. I think there is a name for the type of mis-directive logic you are using.

          2. Repro-choice Bertie

            I’m not suggesting it. I’m stating it because it’s a fact. Legalising access to abortion results in a reduction in the rates of abortion and a large portion of this is down to discussing contraceptive options with women who have abortions. I guess we could have been acting on this sooner if not for the rabid catholics fighting every thing they consider an affront to their morality (except child rape by the clergy and selling children of course).

            “The chief lesson of the report is one pro-choice advocates have known for years: that making abortion illegal or hard to get doesn’t end abortion, it just makes it less safe. And opposition to abortion tends to come along with opposition to contraception and women’s rights more broadly – and the limited contraception access that results means a higher abortion rate. ”

            https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/24/want-to-lower-the-abortion-rate-support-pro-choice-policies

          3. Sentient Won

            Not true.

            Canadian stats show no discernible trend:

            http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/backrounders/statistics-abortion-in-canada.pdf

            In Europe the trend depends on where you are and the particular legislative and cultural circumstances;

            “Since 2000, the rates of termination of pregnancy have increased by 5% in Northern Europe and by 11% in Southern Europe, but have decreased by 40% in Central and Eastern Europe.”

            https://obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1471-0528.2011.03189.x

          4. Sentient Won

            Can’t you read?

            Contraceptive programmes will get defunded if the organisation also carries out Abortions.

            Abortions will decrease. The pogrom will halt.

          5. Repro-choice Bertie

            Making abortion harder to access does not decrease abortions. It decreases legal abortions. Reducing access to contraceptives will result in more unplanned pregnancies which will lead to more, probably illegal, abortions.

            Frankly I’m surprised at you cheerleading something that will cause more abortions.

          6. ReproBertie (SCU)

            What facts am I misrepresenting? The fact that access to abortion reduces abortion rates? Or that fact that access to contraception reduces abortion rates? Or the fact that restricting access to abortion and contraception increases abortion rates?

            Sure throw a meaningless ad hominem in there when you can’t argue an actual point why don’t you.

          7. Nigel

            ‘Contraceptive programmes will get defunded if the organisation also carries out Abortions.’

            Oh my God these people are geniuses.

    3. SOQ

      Err even one gay wedding was more than before because couldn’t have happened before the marriage referendum?

      Duh.!.

      Bit of a difference between that and abortion mind. The amount of abortions are set to go down if international trends are replicated.

  4. Cian

    This is a big meh from me.
    It’s easier to push a leaflet through the post box than a ballot. So put one inside the other.
    No harm.

  5. SOQ

    Niamh Uí Bhriain from Save the 8th on Primetime. What a rude aggressive woman. She kept interrupting Clare Daly and trying to shout her down.

    1. newsjustin

      It was a catastrophic outing for the Yes campaign. I must say, I thought the Claire Byrne was 50:50 at best, despite what the No side claim. But this Primetime debate tonight on when life begins…wow.

      We were left in no doubt that human life begins at conception. We were treated to beautiful images of the baby at all stages of development. We heard about the baby’s growth and maturity. It was obvious that foetal development is a continuous process with no magic leap forward at any stage – not at 12 weeks, not at birth.

      Unfortunately we had to hear Clare Daly TD disgracefully describe miscarriages as “a heavy period”. Awful comment. She doubled down on that by suggesting that mothers who suffer a miscarriage may feel grief….but probably only if she’s an older woman and this is her last chance. Grim.

      1. Nigel

        Yeah, all that and it’s still up to the woman whether it’s brought into the world.

        ‘Unfortunately we had to hear Clare Daly TD disgracefully describe miscarriages as “a heavy period”. Awful comment.’

        It’s possible you only think that because you yourself have never experienced a heavy period. I mean, neither have I, but I know enough not to assume that because she’s describing it as a heavy period she’s dismissing it as trivial.

          1. mildred st. meadowlark

            Kindly see below.

            Unless you want to talk about YOUR periods, justin…

          2. Repro-choice Bertie

            I don’t believe she did dismiss miscarriages but I can see how it would suit your argument to interpret it that way. Niamh was the same last night with all her fake concern for the people at home who heard the comment.

      2. mildred st. meadowlark

        Women can have periods so heavy and debilitating that it can cause nausea, fainting and vomiting, as well as fever and migraine.

        A miscarriage that occurs in very early pregnancy certainly can resemble day 1 and 2 of a particularly nasty period.

        1. Starina

          i had a miscarriage at 28. it was tiring but it was just a heavy period. didn’t even see the embryo, just blood clots.

      3. SOQ

        Justin, Naimh wouldn’t shut up? And she just kept repeating the same 3 or 4 lines over and over again so it wasn’t like she was even engaging in debate.

        She presented herself very badly.

        And further more, women who have miscarried in that 12 week period know way better than you or I what an abortion of similar entails.

      4. mildred st. meadowlark

        Nice dig at Clare Daly btw. She’s one of the few decent politicians we have in this country, so let’s make it about her gender, her age and her ‘last chance.’

        Real classy.

        1. newsjustin

          Excuse me Mildred? I’ve done no such thing.

          Those were Clare Daly’s own words regarding older women and last chances.

          Maybe you should watch the debate Mildred.

          1. mildred st. meadowlark

            Apologies. I completely misread what you’d written. I honestly thought you were making (an entirely unfair) dig at Clare Daly. I take back my comment completely, and I am sorry.

          2. SOQ

            I did and her point was that the disappointment comes from that it may possibly be the last chance the woman may have.

            Loose the fake outrage.

  6. Alors

    Damn! Political leaflets appeared today… threw them in the burn box as usual. Never occurred to me to look inside.Hope the ballot cards weren’t in there; they went in the stove.

    1. TheQ47

      It doesn’t really matter if you threw the ballot cards away, you don’t need them. They make it easier for the polling clerk/ presiding officer to find you on the list of voters, but they’re not mandatory.

      You should bring some ID with you though, to confirm you are the person named on the voters list, if you’re asked for it.
      (former Presiding Officer at a Polling Station in rural West of Ireland)

  7. Paul

    I’d really wonder about the doctors on the ‘No’ side, are they driving their career into the ground? re: their personal opinions affecting their ability to do their job.

  8. Dr.Fart MD

    you grow up presuming all doctors are all-knowing and intelligent and that you’re safe under their watch.. and this no campaign featuring doctors with incorrect views has that idea truly shaken. Now i’ve to question any doctors gumption. Me however, a fine doctor. Fine.

    1. Nigel

      This is the country where doctors kept performing unnecessary symphisiotimies without consent. If you didn’t already know this about doctors, you do now.

    2. CoderNerd

      If you have a long term sick relative or parent you’re quickly disabused of that notion. Doctors throw a load of meds on a prescription and then wait to see what happens, sometimes really messing up if not outright killing the patient. Educated guessing. Better than mine, but still a guess.

  9. Jane

    Will the day ever come that you don’t make a reference to being gay? We get it, we know, we are in no doubt so there’s no need to bring it into every goddam conversation. It’s boring, it’s old, get over it.

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