128 thoughts on “Won’t Somebody Think Of No Children?

    1. Listrade

      15.9 abortions per 1,000 resident women aged 15–44 years; this rate increased from 11.0 in 1973, peaked at 17.9 in 2007, and fell to 15.9 in 2013.

      Their schools are still pretty full, but the GAA teams are cack.

      1. Paul

        I had thought it was higher. It’s weird when you look into the figures the way there seems to be a significant increase in the rate among those who are in a relationship or married and how nearly half of the terminations are carried out on people who have had them before.

          1. TheRealJane

            Yeah but you have to be a pregnant lady to have an abortion. I think that’s the problem. There you are, a woman doing all she’s good for and then bam! you stop doing it and become a useless bag of offal again.

          2. Paul

            So true Jane lol, and it looks like many are finding themselves repeatedly up that same pole and often while in a relationship.
            I wonder what’s going wrong that these obviously trustworthy (I mean women are a homogeneous group of trustworthy people right?) women are finding themselves repeatedly with unplanned pregnancies?

            I know one thing for certain though, they aren’t using abortion as a form of contraception – one of them told me this so it’s true.

          3. TheRealJane

            Paul, it’s hard to know. It’s clear that your obvious contempt for, and mistrust of, women is leading you to one conclusion.

            Mine is a bit different. I haven’t seen any analysis, but my suspicion is that there are several groups of people who might struggle with managing their fertility for several reasons quite heavily represented. I would say that there is a large number of drug and alcohol addicted women, people with mental health difficulties and people with social problems, possibly even young people whose first abortion was while they were in the social care system, prostituted women and those in abusive relationships.

            Abortions are not the preferred method of contraceptive for anyone. It’s messy, expensive, difficult to organize, painful. Even if you think that women are just stupid and selfish and do things for entirely self interested reasons, even you must admit that it’s far more convenient to not have an abortion.

          4. Starina

            surely Paul, you wouldn’t want any of these untrustworthy women to raise a child after they’ve already murdered one?!

          5. SOQ

            Yes but you would never know if you were preggers at that point so the intent is there. MURDERER .!.

          6. SOQ

            Paul said: it looks like many are finding themselves repeatedly up that same pole and often while in a relationship.
            I wonder what’s going wrong

            Words out of context maybe but a pretty good question. It takes two to tango surely?

          7. Paul

            Yes SOQ if it was established that that little cluster of cells was in fact a life form similar to our own and a person terminated it’s existence I suppose the “murderer” tag would not be outside the realms of possibility.
            No need to get so excited about though.

          8. Paul

            Jane I think all humans are stupid and selfish and not just wimin so climb down off your high horse to where I am so we can speak without shouting .
            The rest of your point about marginalized women requiring more abortions and struggling to manage their fertility etc is actually refreshingly good and sensical tbh.

          9. Janet, I ate my Avatar

            “all humans are stupid and selfish”
            I could tell you were a people person

        1. Repro-choice Bertie

          “nearly half of the terminations are carried out on people who have had them before”
          Which is where the aftercare discussions around contraception can help reduce the rate.

          Anyone see “Would You Believe” on RTÉ last night. Norway’s approach to sexual health for teens has had a ridiculously positive impact on their teen abortion rates.

          1. mildred st. meadowlark

            It was excellent. I was really impressed. It would be great if we could foster that kind of thinking and attitude here.

          2. Brother Barnabas

            ironic then that in ireland it’s historically been the fupping church that obstructed efforts towards better education on contraception and sexual health for young teens

          3. Repro-choice Bertie

            Did you see it Brother? They spoke to a priest at a catholic school in Norway who said the law dictated they had to teach it so they taught it but they also taught their ethos on life and so on.

            Then next clip was the presenter asking a priest here about doing something similar but naturally he was having none of it.

            I was really moved by the way they treat late term abortions which are legal in Norway after viability if there is a grave threat to the health of the mother. It was a whole lot better than shipping the parents overseas and abandoning them.

          4. Repro-choice Bertie

            I have no idea what the process is in the UK Paul, beyond knowing women who’ve have to travel and they certainly got no aftercare.

            Why don’t you tell us since you’re the one with experience of women using it as contraception. What aftercare did they get? If it doesn’t cover contraception then that’s clearly not an aftercare model we’d want to follow here.

          5. Paul

            I wouldn’t know Repro-choice Bertie, the level of aftercare available in the UK to Irish nationals who’ve chosen to go that route is strangely something that has not come up, in my experience.

          6. mildred st. meadowlark

            Pretty sure you mentioned you have experience with women who use abortion as form of contraception. You never actually bothered to clarify…

            Funny that

          7. Paul

            Mildred dearest, to clarify for you – I have experience of people (women included) using abortion as a form of contraception (as I’m sure we all have even though some of us refuse to admit it) but I don’t have actual experience with those women. I have never experienced them.

          8. mildred st. meadowlark

            So no then. You don’t have experience of it at all.

            You’re just some smug twinkle-pants who thinks he knows best.

          9. Listrade

            Clarify. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

          10. Daisy Chainsaw

            Paul, could you explain in your stupid and selfish way, how you have experience of abortion as contraception.

        1. Cian

          Yes. In 2016
          “Thirty-eight per cent of abortions in 2016 were to women who had had one or more previous abortions, the same proportion as in 2015.”
          28% has one previous abortion; 8% had two; and 2% had 3 or more

          For Irish women (table 12c):
          2,588 (79%) were first abortions; 677 (21%) were second or subsequent abortions.

          Marital Status
          Single with partner 1,597 (51%)
          Married/civil partnership 584 (19%)
          Single no partner 753 (24%)
          Single not stated 112 (4%)
          Separated/widowed/divorced 76 (2%)
          Not known & not stated 143

          All from: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/679028/Abortions_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf

          1. Karina

            Whatever side you’re on, you can’t say that that’s not flabbergastingly high, good grief.

          2. Cian

            It is high.
            So the 8th clearly isn’t working.

            We should either acknowledge that abortion happens and it should be available here: repeal the 8th;
            Do our best to stop all abortions and remove the right to travel. repeal the 13th.

      1. Paul

        I am and I have lots of times but no one seems to listen and instead they seem to kind of gang up and try and use attempts at humor/ sarcasm to try and belittle me. It’s a bit like school used to be.

        1. mildred st. meadowlark

          I suppose because you’re making lots and lots of baseless claims about something you purport to have experience of but haven’t bothered to explain precisely how you have this experience.

          1. Paul

            I have been very precise dear, I have this experience precisely due to the fact that I have been alive and experiencing experiences.

          2. mildred st. meadowlark

            Ah I see.

            You’re full of poo. Thanks for making it so abundantly clear.

        2. Janet, I ate my Avatar

          or you know they just call you on your nonsense and ask you to back it up with concrete examples and you don’t like it

          1. Paul

            You’ve just helped me realize something Janet – if abortion is not killing something and merely terminating a or preventing a cluster of cells from developing into a something then why are more people not using it as a form of contraception?
            I mean if you’re happy enough with it not being murder then why not use it like the form of contraception it is? And admit to it too hopefully.

          2. Listrade

            Well at a guess Paul I’d say because it is illegal and so might not be the best form of contraception given that you could be looking at 14 years in jail and I can get condoms in the supermarket now which is a bit more convenient.

          3. Karina

            If people you’re working alongside, socialising with, living with etc in maybe a house share when living in the UK, have abortions and repeat abortions, as a lifestyle choice, because that’s what they are in the majority of cases, how do you show figures for that? Cop on, just because it’s not what you want to hear doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Plenty of people who have lived and worked in the UK will tell you the same.

          4. Cian

            in 2016 there were 58 women that were on their ninth (or more) abortion.

            Fifty eight; out of the over 185,000 abortions.

          5. TheRealJane

            I can’t help but wonder how dysfunctional and chaotic a woman’s life would be if she needed abortion so many times. The urge to condemn can often blind us the fact that sometimes adults can struggle without support and it can make life very hard indeed.

          6. Starina

            absolutely. possibly not the most stable home to bring a child into anyway? on a side note, Marilyn Monroe is thought to have had nine terminations.

          7. Mickey Twopints

            In a population of over 65,000,000 – approximately half of whom are female.

          8. Karina

            Cian, thank you for posting the figures. I know you’ll say 58 women having nine or more abortions is not a massive amount out of 185,000 abortions, but it is, it’s barbaric lunacy.

          9. Listrade

            Should the actions of those 58 prohibit access to abortion for the 180,000?

            As it’s a small number it would seem that it could be resolved at GP level.

          10. italia'90

            Cian, my Mum’s friend had 8 TFMR’s, her first one the day I was born.
            They were together on the same ward in the Rotunda.
            That’s how they became friends initially.
            She’s has been like my second Mum throughout my life.

          11. TheRealJane

            Well, I think that’s a really unkind and pejorative way of putting it, but I do think that adults don’t always get the support they need and there are plenty of children who are neglected for many reasons who later grow into struggling adults.

          12. Cian

            Karina, we really don’t know why they do this.
            It is possible that these women are desperate to have a baby, and there are repeated problems with the pregnancy, i.e. FFA? It is possible that there are mental health issues at play. Or it is possible that they are using abortion as a contraceptive.

            But we don’t know which.

          13. Karina

            Listrade, a large number of those abortions were repeat abortions. This is a grave state of affairs, you can’t dress it up and make it sound ok, not possible.

          14. Listrade

            @karina i know, but that doesn’t answer my question.

            Here’s where I’m coming from so there’s no confusion. I’m a fully paid up snowflake liberal who is a sucker for a sob story.

            But there’s something missing from that statistic and it’s a very important something. It is: why?

            We don’t know.

            Now because of my own softie outlook I wonder if there are other issues behind it that are possibly in plain sight, but never covered on the form the doctor takes in.

            Take the 58 women. You called it barbaric. 9 abortions is jaw dropping, I’ll admit. But I don’t know why and neither do you. You may assume the worst, I perhaps think there could be more too it.

            They could just be callous and barbaric. I’m actually sure some of the 58 are. But is there anything else like domestic abuse, mental health, homelessness, drink, drugs or all? Are they sex workers (now there’s another debate)? Are the sex workers and there’s issues with drink and drugs?

            I don’t know. You don’t know. No debate will ever resolve it.

            I would guess it’s a mix of them all.

            I can only go off what I do know and I don’t know the stories of the 58 women in that statistic to judge. But there are plenty of stories from women who have given their reasons.

            Here’s something from the rape crises centre. Approximate figures as it’s from memory. But recently they had over 2000 women and girls use their service. 90 of them were pregnant from rape. 17 chose to have an abortion. 2 became pregnant again.

            That’s just Ireland. That’s just those who went to that particular service. That’s just those who chose to seek a service (based on the now ancient SAVI report that’s probably only 10% of the actual figure).

            Dunno about you, but rape and sexual assault isn’t a lifestyle choice. How many of those repeat abortions are from women in those circumstances? We don’t know because the doctor is nice enough not to advertise a repeated pregnancy from rape on the form to protect their client.

            As I said, that’s just me. I look at the stats and wonder why they are what they are. Some of that information is easy because we’ve had so many women come forward and tell their stories.

            Some of it is hidden in other stats and reports.

            I guess it comes down to the repeat abortions and even those 58 women. Are you so sure they are all barbaric people or do you think that a few, some, most or all have their own struggles and issues that thankfully most of us will never experience or understand.

            And even if a few are the callous barbaric people you suspect, is that tiny number exploiting the system enough to prohibit abortion for everyone else who needs it?

            The two Irish women we know of who were repeatedly raped and pregnant twice?

            The women who have given accounts of their own ill health, rapes, incest and FFA.

            We know their stories. Should we use the 58 people whose stories neither you or I will ever know continue to impact the thousands of women whose stories we do know?

          15. cupofteaanyone

            surely after the 4th or 5th you would imagine she would get the guy to wear a condom. She could also be in a bad relationship and not allowed to use contraception.

          16. Karina

            Cian, FFA as a reason for abortion is a miniscule number. As you say, we don’t know but us not knowing still doesn’t make it alright.

          17. Karina

            Jane, that’s not unkind, that’s what she needs if she continues to put herself in the same predicament, if you had had nine abortions would you not be glad of the support of a carer? I know I would.

          18. Karina

            Listrade, I said the act of having nine abortions was barbaric lunacy, not that the women were barbaric. All the reasons you’ve listed, situations etc, I know you have a vast scope of understanding and it’s not that I don’t, I will never be able to accept the slaughter of innocents, that’s the bottom line. Bringing abortion on demand to Ireland, because that’s what it will be, will never sit right with me.Thanks for your replies.

          19. italia'90

            Andy: A stronger woman you will not meet.
            It was “God’s will” she would say.
            However, she’s voting Yes next week.

            I’ve given her enough grandchildren to spoil ;)

  1. Brother Barnabas

    won’t be long before someone says it’s an evil ploy by the dubs towards 50 in a row

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      But it’s only Dubs who have abortions! Comely maidens down the country couldn’t countenance such a thing, you know.

      1. Paul

        Probably a higher rate down in the bogs I’d say as there’d be less 24 hour pharmacies .

          1. Paul

            At a glance it seems ridiculous to see it as anything other than a convenience but there is a strong logical and moral (I guess) argument to made for it being the termination of a life – although i’m not completely versed this far down the spectrum and open to correction.


          2. Janet, I ate my Avatar

            I’m sure my stance is fairly clear from other posts but to answer your question
            I see the morning after pill as a sonetimes necessary response to an accident

          3. Paul

            You mean the sort of accident where you spend time with someone from the opposite sex and then allow your sexual organs to prepare for coitus before engaging in a likely prolonged sexual encounter where insemination occurs? You mean that sort of accident or the sort where you drop your dinner on the way to the tv whooops sort of accident?

            Honest question – have you ever accidentally had sex with someone? I never have, my intention was always to have sex with that specific person at that time.

          4. Janet, I ate my Avatar

            No accidents like a condom bursts,
            or you are 13 and don’t contraception properly because you know you are new to it,
            or not accident like rape

          5. SOQ

            Do you have any stats on morning after pill sales in Ireland to backup your assumption Paul?

          6. Niamh

            Sigh – Paul, I presume she means accident as in when the condom breaks, the pill is puked up, the coil fails. If a woman is sexually active from, say, 20 to menopause, accidents will happen.

            MAP is also a sensible response to rape, if the victim is able to access it.

            You are a very judgmental person who would, it seems, have women deliver babies to punish them for having sex. Which is also punishing babies, really, by obliging them to be born to unwilling mothers.

            No doubt you’ll counter that we should be celibate. This is only the case if we believe contraception and abortion are sins. Lots of us don’t. If you do, remain celibate; we don’t, so eff off. This is not a theocracy anymore, please get over it and get your nose out of my private life.

            As for your snide remark on women being trustworthy: here’s the thing. Women don’t answer to you.

          7. Paul

            Sigh Niamh, you should try not to presume so much. I assumed she was talking about the didn’t bother using protection sort of accident.

            Not sure where you’re getting the idea that I’m judgemental toward women only, afaik men do bad things too sometimes.

            Celibate? Theocracy? You’re babbling.

            And whether or not women answer to me obviously has little bearing on their trustworthiness. So yeah, while it feels good and defiant for you to vocalise that thought it’s neither here nor there.

          8. Janet, I ate my Avatar

            No didn’t bother is not an accident
            It’s not bothering
            and the morning after pill is not a convenient contraception either…it induces unpleasant bleeding and pain, extreme vomiting and messes up your cycle and everything throwing your hormones off will do including depression

          9. mildred st. meadowlark

            Makes you feel good to belittle women and deny them choices though right?

            Makes you feel good to know you’re depriving them of rights that you enjoy because you’re a man?

            To know you’re protecting the unborn at the expense of women and girls?

            I hope you don’t have a daughter, and that she doesn’t resent you for denying her the right to choose for herself.

          10. Paul

            Hey Mildred, hope you’re having a good day.

            It feels good to think I’m protecting the right to life of the always defenseless and always innocent unborn for sure, the rest of what you say I hadn’t even considered tbh and i think that’s probably more a reflection on what’s in your head than mine.

      2. kellma

        Ah well, then it’ll be the Healy Raes trying to get Kerry back into the running….

        1. kellma

          @ Paul. I don’t want to rain on your hero complex but you are not protecting the right to life of the defenseless for a few reasons:
          1. Abortion is here already (just outsourced for now) and will never go away. Its a fact of life and death.
          2. Currently, the 8th is just laying the risk solely at the feet of the woman because she needs to be practically dead before her right to life is taken into consideration.
          3. You are denying women the chance to participate in legislation that treats them with dignity particularly in cases of FFA. These women and their beautiful babies will NEVER receive the dignity they deserve until this ill thought out amendment is removed.

          1. Paul

            @kellma and i don’t want to rain of your civil rights advocate complex either so i guess that makes 2 of us.
            Now 1. That’s true – doesn’t make it either right or wrong though
            2. This is very debatable
            3.Yeah instances of FFA are tragic and rare and so I’m not sure if we should be designing laws around them or simply to accommodate them – but yeah i agree with you here

          2. kellma

            @ Paul
            re 1. For me, it would feel wrong to have an abortion. Thankfully I have never been in the position where I have felt I needed one (rape or FFA). Even if I was told my baby was dead at 23 weeks I think id still want to deliver it and hold it. But that is me and that is my choice. Another woman may mentally just not be able to do that and I couldn’t in all conscience force that upon her.
            re 2. well I guess that is what we are doing. Many highly regarded physicians would agree here. My own cousin is GP and we have spoken at length about this. I know there are doctors who don’t but I’m happy with my choice and my opinion is that their conscience (be it religiously or otherwise formed) overrides clear logic.
            re 3. why not? The 8th amendment does not stop abortion, it just makes it unsafe and there is an argument to say you are less likely to change your mind if you have “invested” so much in making the love boat trip to have one. So really keeping the 8th hoping you will manage abortion rates is all theoretical. But the 8th causing women (and their families) in these crisis situations (rape, FFA) further trauma is an absolute. Until that is gone we cannot do anything. Having two beautiful children myself I really cannot imagine how I would cope with the grief of having to bring a child of mine home in an ice box. We are all stronger than we think we are and these women did it because they had no other choice but why on god’s earth make them do that when there is no need?

          3. Paul

            1. What about if you’er someone who uses it as a form of contraception
            2. Your cuz is a GP? C’mon, who cares like. There’ll be professionals on either side of this debate.
            3. Hard cases make bad laws

          4. mildred st. meadowlark

            Your dismissive attitude to kellma’s well written and informative comments are very illuminating, Paul. I’m sure you’re super individual and that the view is fantastic from up there on your high horse.

          5. Kellma

            @paul. Your last comment disappoints me. Despite the fact that we are of opposing views I did rather hope that you would have a respectful discussion. However your behaviour in the end says more about you (and your argument) than me. To end ( don’t argue with an idiot. They will drag u down to their level and beat up with experience); you say hard cases make for bad laws. Who knows what kind of law we will get but it can’t be any
            worse than the 8th amendment. Good day sir.

        2. Cian

          Kerry has very little abortion. The UK publishes the data by Irish county (16% of them don’t state a county):
          Dublin has 31% of the women (age 15-45), but 42% of the abortions.

          Leitrim……… 21 (0.8%) Population: 5658 (0.6%)
          Dublin………1,175 (42.8%) Population: 317199 (31.6%)
          Carlow……… 36 (1.3%) Population: 11586 (1.2%)
          Louth………… 83 (3%) Population: 26842 (2.7%)
          Wicklow……… 85 (3.1%) Population: 28503 (2.8%)
          Kildare……… 130 (4.7%) Population: 48538 (4.8%)
          Waterford……. 56 (2%) Population: 22763 (2.3%)
          Meath……… 100 (3.6%) Population: 40684 (4.1%)
          Limerick…… 99 (3.6%) Population: 40391 (4%)
          Laois…….… 42 (1.5%) Population: 17323 (1.7%)
          Wexford…… 69 (2.5%) Population: 29403 (2.9%)
          Clare……… 53 (1.9%) Population: 22739 (2.3%)
          Sligo……… 29 (1.1%) Population: 12589 (1.3%)
          Tipperary… 69 (2.5%) Population: 30257 (3%)
          Kilkenny…… 44 (1.6%) Population: 19496 (1.9%)
          Cavan……. 33 (1.2%) Population: 14815 (1.5%)
          Cork……… 241 (8.8%) Population: 113851 (11.3%)
          Donegal…… 63 (2.3%) Population: 30216 (3%)
          Westmeath… 38 (1.4%) Population: 18271 (1.8%)
          Galway…… 113 (4.1%) Population: 54724 (5.5%)
          Longford…… 16 (0.6%) Population: 7843 (0.8%)
          Offaly………… 28 (1%) Population: 15440 (1.5%)
          Kerry………… 49 (1.8%) Population: 27531 (2.7%)
          Roscommon… 20 (0.7%) Population: 11532 (1.1%)
          Mayo………… 38 (1.4%) Population: 23244 (2.3%)
          Monaghan…… 15 (0.5%) Population: 11885 (1.2%)

          1. Cian

            This is showing the female population of 15-45 year olds only (and percentage of total 15-45 year olds).
            So it excludes the “aul wans”

  2. Friscondo

    What’s the law on removing posters. Graphic No posters on both approaches to my kids national school, which is not a main road and is not postered by Yes side. It seems like deliberate targeting of school. Having to enter awkward, inappropriate conversations with very young kids. Not happy at all! The sick cynicism of it is making my blood boil. Any advice?

    1. TheRealJane

      I don’t think you can legally do it. As I understand it, the advice is to contact the guards.

    2. Brother Barnabas

      is it a school designated as a polling station? i think that’s the strategy around posters on roads approaching some schools

    3. TransNational

      A complaint needed to be registered with the Gardaí under Sec. 7 of the Public Order Act 1994.

      Footage of a garda doing his job excellently here (ironically posted by the most nutjob wing of the pro-life movement themselves): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNRY3gFZM18

      I am currently pursuing a similar complaint in relation to images being circulated by the above same group but while professional, I regret that I have found my own experience of bringing a complaint the gardaí less than proactive on the issue despite their obligations to take my complaint seriously under the Garda dignity charter.
      Know your law and you can change the imagery in your local area. Don’t let the gardaí fob you off, they really don’t want to be involved in this but they have a legal obligation to apply the law when a complaint is made

    4. Paul

      I’d say it’s completely deliberate targeting of a place where potential voters will be.

      Where’s the cynicism though?

      1. Friscondo

        It’s not a main road. No Yes posters. Having primary aged children and their parents targeted is cynicism. They’re a shower of ghouls. Posters very graphic. I don’t think I should have to get in to explaining what they’re all about to a 7 and 9 year old, and have them looking at them every day. They think it has something to do with their school. They’re on both approaches to the school.

        1. Paul

          Lots of roads in this State are not main roads. Many have no YES posters or vice versa. If you think targeting areas where potential voters go is cynical then there’s not a lot to be said. Who is a shower of ghouls – what are you even talking about? Abortion posters are by their nature graphic. There are 7 and 9 year olds running around all over the place, if your logic is to be followed then the NO side has no where to put up their posters.

          1. Friscondo

            My issue is, my children now link them to their school specifically. And that is ghoulish. These fanatics don’t care about children, born or unborn. They just want to shove their ideology down our throats. That’s cynicism.

          2. Repro-choice Bertie

            “Abortion posters are by their nature graphic.”
            Cacanna tarbh. There are plenty of No posters that are just words.

          3. Paul

            I don’t think you have to worry about your children linking them to school specifically sure they’re all over the shop and not just specific to your school. Also i don’t know is that ghoulish – like is that the definition of ghoulish we’re using?

            You’re right about them being fanatics though lol and some of them do indeed seem to care more about the unborn than the born strangely enough.

            As for the last bit about them shoving their ideology down our throats being cynicism again I’m not sure if we’re using the same definitions for words.

    5. BobBobBob

      > Having to enter awkward, inappropriate conversations with very young kids.
      > Any advice?

      Keep practicing. There’s no avoiding inappropriate conversations with your own children sooner or later.
      It is difficult but there are ways to discuss things with children without getting too bogged down in the details.

      For example you might say people want to change the laws and people aren’t sure about the best way to do it. Either something like that or dodging the question by saying “Ask your father!” or “I’ll explain it to you when you’re older” works too but is less effective if you use it too often.

    1. TransNational

      Because rich people already have access to legal and safe abortion via a quick flight to the UK.
      This is a class issue for me.

  3. Niamh

    If there worried about this they should suspend all customs borders and release people incarcerated in direct provision, thus welcoming more immigrants and adding to the population.

    Ye’re up for that, LoveBoth, right? Or is it just ‘white Irish’ kids you want?

  4. Frill the 8th

    Immigration and Urban relocation has done more damage to small clubs and schools than anything else
    WTF like

    This would be comical if it wasn’t actually getting in me jumper puppies

    1. Janet, I ate my Avatar

      decent broadband and roads/public transport would do more for boosting GAA figures

    2. Brother Barnabas

      how is immigration damaging small clubs, frillz? if anything, i’ve noticed a lot of the new irish playing football and hurling – and it’s lovely to see

      1. Frill the 8th

        pedantic for lunch Brudder?
        so there

        and given that you’re about as familiar with the Junior and Rural club scene as I am with algorithms …
        stick a kango hammer up yer’ botty-boo

  5. ricky

    I can see this a reality in years to come
    People will not have children because they cannot afford them.
    Lets face it by the time rent is paid, insurance, the running of a car , food etc if you earn less than 40 grand you will be in dire straits
    The average Joe soap will be thinking twice .
    And then of course one wage down then if wanting to go back to work ,the child care costs that will virtually eat away the second wage earners wage

      1. ricky

        Hardly enough to raise a child unless one has a social welfare mentality
        No work free house medical card etc and each year bring another sprig into the world
        Sadly they do exist but just a few
        I am talking about those who cannot afford children ,but are responsible people

    1. Listrade

      It is happening. “Fertility Rate” (number of children per woman) is dropping, people are waiting longer before having children.

      1. ricky

        Exactly and the ones born into the no work ethic will become just like their parents
        You cannot blame them for its all they know

  6. cupofteaanyone

    At the very most there will be a gap in the number of children born. Most people have an idea of how many kids they want to have. But if a girl has a kid at 16 she might not be able to afford a second or third. She might drop out of school and have to work unskilled jobs for the many years.

    But if she got an abortion at 6 weeks finishes school, goes to college, gets a good job and gets into a stable relationship she could afford to have a few kids.

    1. TheRealJane

      I saw a letter in the independent from some doctor who didn’t actually state how he planned to vote but was rather scathing about young women having abortions so they wouldn’t lose their educational and career opportunities. I felt he did the default thing Irish people do, blame the person and not question the system.

      If my priority was to reduce the number of women seeking abortions, I’d definitely question why girls are left with such a stark and unforgiving reality.

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