88 thoughts on “De Sunday Papers

  1. Tony

    Anyone seen the new slew of smaller No posters that have gone up in their hundreds, joining the existing horde of No posters? Really screechy lies and fear mongering. I’d say the No propaganda outweighs the Yes by about four to one at this stage. Lies and fear got Trump in and Brexit passed. No doubt it’ll swing the No vote here. I despair.

    But if it doesn’t and there’s a Yes result, i’ll Be so proud of Ireland. So very proud

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    1. SOQ

      I seriously question the motives of people who predict failure. The same happen last time around and then Yes romped home. We have one of the most extreme anti abortion laws in the world. People aren’t stupid, it will be repealed.

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        1. Tony

          Abortion is a necessary evil in certain circumstances. Nobody wants it. Nobody likes it. But in certain circumstances it is necessary. That’s why the Eighth has no place in our Constitution. That’s why I will be voting Yes. You won’t Justin, and I respect your decision. That’s democracy

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        2. Sheik Yahbouti

          Make no mistake, Justin. Absolutely nobody is in favour of abortion. it’s just that some of us recognize that in some cases it becomes a sad necessity.

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        3. Daisy Chainsaw

          I’m anti abortion the same way I’m anti chemo. I wish there was an alternative to pumping people full of poison to save their lives, but ultimately it’s the only option for them.

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      1. Tony

        You needn’t question my motives Queenie. I just think when you consider Trump and Brexit, people can be easily swayed by fear and lies. It makes me nervous. I hope to be proved wrong but I have a Han Solo bad feeling about all this

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        1. SOQ

          Ireland has gone through a massive social change of recent times as evidenced by the last referendum. All political parties are supporting Repeal which they would not if they thought the result was going to be even close.

          People aren’t stupid, they will see through the scaremongering again, it will pass.

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        2. Daisy Chainsaw

          People saw through the lies and scaremongering peddled by the anti marriage equality cohort (same gang, as coincidence would have it!). I hope they’ll see through this No campaign too.

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        3. Listrade

          There’s a major difference between Brexit, Trump and the referendum and that’s a lack of a scapegoat.

          Trump and Brexit could hang blame and fear on immigrants and elites. Theirs was promising change tapping into the fear and anger of people impacted by austerity… and the racists.

          That isn’t the case here. They’ve tried to make it about elites, but it hasn’t stuck.

          There isn’t anything to make this a protest vote (though some on here are trying).

          The No campaign has been too broad, it has thrown everything at this rather than finding a single or limited message, at least one that has stuck.

          It’ll be close, but I’m not sure the circumstances are right for a Trump or Brexit.

          Reply
  2. Toe Up

    There’s a doozy of an article currently in the Irish Times

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tempers-fray-among-sligo-leitrim-abortion-campaigners-1.3500692

    Here are some choice quotes:

    “I just feel passionately about the unborn. And about pregnant women who are pressurised into taking the easy way out,” he said afterwards.
    He said a relative of his had rescued an aborted baby from the sluice room of a London hospital. The baby had survived.

    “You should investigate what is happening in relation to the electoral register,” said Quinlan. “Large numbers of people are having their names taken off it and a lot of foreign students have mysteriously been given votes.”

    In Carrick-on-Shannon, Independent Cllr Des Guckian sent an email to constituents claiming that if the Eighth Amendment was repealed, sex slavery would be normalised. “Hitler would be very happy,” he wrote. Euthanasia would follow, he warned.

    Fellow panellist Bernie O’Hara said that 98 per cent of abortions in England were carried out for “social” reasons. These included, she said, “someone wants to go on their holidays and this upsets their plans”.

    Asked about cases of rape, she replied that in 2016 there were just seven Irish babies available for adoption: “Why not give birth and give the baby up for adoption?”

    At one point Ganley accused Ocean FM on air of cutting off one of the microphones on the No side. “Nobody’s mic was cut,” retorted presenter Niall Delaney.

    “Ireland was depopulated after the Famine,” he said. “If we allow abortion it will be like the Famine all over again. Then they’ll have to get foreigners in to run the place. You don’t see many Muslims voting for babies. Don’t get me wrong. I am not being racist. These are the facts. The native Irish will become a minority. We’ll become strangers in our own land.”

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    1. john g

      The famous rivers of blood speech by Enoch Powell had truth in it but the UK had an empire and all from the empire had the right to emergrate
      We on the other hand are not an empire
      I can almost hear the outrage but our country is so dumbed down and people have abandoned their faith
      This is dangerous as all our identity will be gone over the next couple of decades ,and more pious religions will take over

      Reply
  3. Sheik Yahbouti

    ‘Tis as I feared, Ugly, Ugly, Ugly AGAIN – and these are the allegedly ‘decent’ and ‘moral’ people….:-(

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    1. PlumBobSmearPants

      It’s emotional terrorism. Plain and simple. It’s all they have left. They know that too so they’ll pretty much say and poster up anything. Anything to blackmail the undecided. There’s no reasoning. There’s no argument or circumstance in which any societal change is acceptable beyond their religious and extremely conservative myopia.

      Last time it was perverts marrying their spaniels. This time it’s Muslims taking over and not playing the gaa.

      Screw the lot of them. I hate this sort of stuff. And I’ll. never forgive them for putting their lies and diatribe out.

      For the record, my position is simple. I’m voting yes to repeal the 8th. Why? What a woman wants or needs to do to ensure her physical or mental health is not my business. Nor should it be our nation’s constitution. If she needs – for whatever the reason – an abortion, she should get it. Here. I understand exactly what I’ve said there. It’s what I believe.

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    2. Martco

      @Sheik my friend, yes it will escalate…the bile, vitriol, zealotry will all be here in spades this week as you fear. just wait & see, just like 1983. here we go I guess.

      & when I pull it apart (because it’s a hard thing for me to understand how ordinarily decent moral kind people come out with some of this ridiculousness…what on earth would they think if they took pause & properly considered what they’re professing!?) I think some are genuinely confused because some process this question with 2x competing ideologies going on in their heads- secular & religious. this is a war. at many levels. I’m secular all the way so it’s easier for me to process this, it’s a straight question for me (of course the answer is YES given the question what on earth else could it be ffs???) but my normally friendly kind neighbour who despite differences of opinion (e.g. he’s a FG lover & I’m very clearly not) we’d each jump to each other’s assistance no questions asked might vote NO here because his religious context overrules his practical day to day thinking.

      I got lucky with tickets for the stones on Thursday. On the stroll up from Connolly we were met by canvassers both for Yes & Noultimately everything & everything is justified because

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          1. Martco

            basically everybody try to remain kind to each other & my hope is that confused undecided people allow their practical day to day secular thinking some space to breathe & not be overwhelmed by driven dogma. as ever…VOTE YES!

  4. Ron

    That front page story on Sun Indo is a stark reminder of how amateur and nasty the people in charge of this country are. How utterly depressing. Why don’t our smartest and most intelligent get into politics. We have so many talented people in this country buy yet it appears none where we need them most.

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    1. Sheik Yahbouti

      Might it be that the best and the brightest ‘get de feck out of Dodge’ in the face of the dead hand of our political parties, the ‘Permanent Government ‘ and the ‘Great and the Good ‘ here?

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    2. john g

      Maybe its time that all the heads of everything was replaced with the young graduates
      The cancer needs removal and its from the top
      Seriously look what a safe pair of hands have got us
      Experience political stealth? Its all a joke
      The sad thing is peoples lives are at stake
      We are 4 million odd people on a landmass rich in resources
      We could trade without Europe
      In china alone there is a market of very wealthy people that would be one market that even if we trebled out put we could not keep up with demand
      Look at our fishing grounds
      That alone back under our control would yield riches beyond our dreams

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        1. john g

          Watched nationwide and a segment of fishing
          Apparently ships three times the size of our fishing fleet are suddenly appearing in our waters
          The fishermen reckon that they are trying to establish a history of fishing in Irish waters
          These European boats are getting ready for brexit
          The fishermen interviewed stated they can get no where with our government over this and feel they are going to be all out of business
          Well Bertie explain that one with logic not heckling and my name is not David

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          1. ReproBertie (SCU)

            What is it you want me to explain john/mary/david? How Sasamach will have a negative impact on EU fishing? It’s too early to say because the British Taoiseach and her Rialtas still haven’t figured out what Sasamach means but it’s looking increasingly like the RA will be paying to stay in the customs union which will more than likely mean continued access to Britain’s fishing waters for the EU fishing fleet.

            Of course they could go hardline on access to their waters which will do incredible damage to the EU fishing industry but the RA don’t have the fleet or the processing plants to take advantage of sole access nor will they have the market as the EU will undoubtedly retaliate with tariffs on their fish.

    3. scottser

      The smartest and most intelligent are behind the scenes manipulating our useful idiot politicians.

      Reply
      1. john g

        More like corrupt jobs worth who will do anything to avoid accountability even to the point of manslaughter

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    4. john g

      I totally agree
      All the graduates untainted
      Put them in charge and sack the rest
      Unfortunately it will take bankruptcy to achieve this
      Mind you brexit which will ruin this country might be the time bankruptcy calls

      Reply
  5. Sheik Yahbouti

    Lads, time for change. let’s tackle the abortion issue and then get right into the public housing – public services issues – is that ok with y’all? I yearn for the Republic, promised long ago – but never delivered.

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    1. john g

      Sheik we must clear house before tackling abortion as this is our constitution and to allow this political system more power is stupid beyond belief
      We can always have another referendum when we have competance

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      1. Nigel

        Literally any change is impossible under those terms. If you can’t trust politicians about this you can’t trust them about anything therefore you can neither support or endorse any attempt at any sort of reform. This is the logic of complete stasis and stagnation, an eternal status quo locked in place by your endless whining coupled with the deliberate sabotage of any efforts to change.

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        1. john g

          Change will only happen when the cancer is removed
          I will not vote for this lot tampering with one bit of our constitution
          With whining comes rage with rage comes change
          Are you getting me
          Would you let a drunk driver drop your family home because there was no other driver available?
          This country is at a cross roads and what’s in charge is out of control and incompetant

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          1. Nigel

            Every change will require meddling with something. Your rage is useless. It’s as if you’d refuse to let your family get in a car ever again because you know that there are drunk drivers out there. Or object to a woman getting treatment for cancer because of the Cervical Check mess. All you’re doing is making noise and getting in the way and maintaining the status quo you profess to hate.

          2. Martco

            +1 Nigel

            nicely put. that’s the fear tactic right there & analogies like yours are helpful imo

          3. SOQ

            That is exactly what it, white noise with the intention of distracting people from reading real people’s opinions.

          4. Frilly Waters

            But John
            You already did vote for tampering with our Constitution

            How d’ya think the 8th Amendment got in there in the first place?

  6. Kay

    public housing, better well run hospitals, corruption in state bodies are much more important then the referendum but not getting the same response.

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  7. john g

    How low can a government stoop to keep the whole rotten mess going
    Well we see it Leo’s plan to meet Emma
    Is this when privately he tries to buy her off? And of course using tax payers money
    Emma stick to your guns and nothing less than all management sacked in HSE
    A criminal investigation and all ministers heads on plates who were in charge of this manslaughter including varadkar
    And we are voting for the unborn to be at the mercy of these people

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    1. Nigel

      You are voting so that women are no longer at the mercy of the 8th. It’s as if with a simple Yes/No vote you could reduce the chances of further harm from the cervical smear debacle but you chose to vote no because you hate politicians more than you want women to be safer.

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      1. john g

        Replaced by the mercy of the state
        Including the unborn and just look at our history of anyone under the mercy of this state
        Mother and babies women mentally handicapped the list of scandals go on and on and on

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        1. Nigel

          The 8th is part of our history of putting people at the mercy of the state and if you refuse to make this one simple positive change that will release people from that mercy it proves what a cynical sham your populist whining really is.

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          1. GiggidyGoo

            We have a discussion yesterday. There is one question that you ran away from, and chose to try divert the discussion from. You mention above ‘putting people at the mercy of the state’.
            So, the amendment proposed now is ‘“Provision may be made in law for regulation of termination of a pregnancy.”
            What was that you were saying about ‘at the mercy of the state’?
            Now, can you (without insulting, diverting etc.) tell me why you are prepared to give the state such power and throw yourself at its mercy?

          2. italia'90

            GiggidyGoo: Why are you in favour of Irish women being forced abroad for healthcare and denying them a right to be treated here in Ireland?

          3. Nigel

            It’s such a weird question. We are each and every one of us at the mercy of the state. The 8th is an example of how that can do nothing but harm. Removing the 8th reduces that harm. After that it’s politics and the democratic process. If you’ve given up on that there’s nothing to be said. If you haven’t then get your act together. We know what legislarion is being proposed. The overwhelming likelihood is that they will try to make it less liberal. That’s a battle for post repeal.

          4. GiggidyGoo

            Nigel. Thanks for that non-combatitive answer. Although we don’t actually know exactly what legislation would come down the line, your points do make more sense. You’re probably correct that I should place more trust in whatever good politicians that are left, or that will be elected in the future to do the right thing.

          5. Nigel

            I think the rule of thumb is never trust any of them watch them like hawks and hold them accountable for everything.

        2. Listrade

          All with a common denominator: forcing women into medical treatment they didn’t ask for.

          Are you suggesting that by removing the 8th the government will force women to have abortions?

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          1. ReproBertie (SCU)

            He has already stated, many times, that the HSE would force women whose scans show signs of disability to have abortions as a cost saving measure. He’s a beautiful example of the Love Boats mentality.

        3. ReproBertie (SCU)

          Irrespective of the outcome of this referendum pregnant women in Ireland will remain in the hands of the HSE david. You’ve being playing this card for weeks and it’s still utter garbage. You can’t try to frighten people with the big bad HSE while at the same time arguing how safe a place Ireland is to have a child.

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      2. GiggidyGoo

        Mr. Assumption (Nigel) up and at em today. John G’s main comment was about the FG way of trying to have things portrayed pro FG. And, as is normal with this lot of FGers, caught out almost immediately.
        But you choose to ignore the main comment, pick up on the abortion one, and proceed assume, insult.
        And you hope to change people’s opinion in that manner?.
        I’ve a question to you, unanswered and not dealt with, on yesterday’s pages. I can wait.

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        1. john g

          Nigel cannot debate
          Mind you nearly all these repeal mob cannot as for the green jersey wearers on the titanic brexit to them is a English evil

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          1. Nigel

            Look at the two of you. Both grinding on endlessly about how awful things are, but when push comes to shove you’ll do nothing except wait for a Donald Trump to come and save you.

          2. italia'90

            It is such a privilege to be in the presence of such well informed Master Debaters.

          3. Nigel

            Given Giggy’s civil reply above I regret this snark now at least as far as he’s concerned.

  8. SOQ

    With all the money spent on that wedding, could they not have done something with Harry’s hair? He looked like he was dragged through a bush backwards.

    Looks like he is losing it too mind, same as brother. They say baldness comes from the mother’s side. It would be a hell of a coincidence if it came from the fathers.

    Reply
  9. SOQ

    Terminal. A short film banned by RTE until after the referendum.

    https://vimeo.com/263770515

    A girl and a woman meet in an airport departure gate. Just before they board a plane to Manchester, we witness a private exchange as they share the different reasons that brought them to this moment, and the traumatic journey that awaits them.

    Reply
    1. SOQ

      This is Ireland – Short Documentary
      This film tells a social history of Ireland from the 1970s to 2018.

      Where we are now in 2018 comes from a long history of institutionalisation, social movements, high-profile cases and harrowing stories.

      Topics include;
      Contraception; Abortion; Mother & Baby Homes; Magdalene Laundries; Divorce; Symphysiotomy

      Stories include;
      Ann Lovett; Joanne Hayes; Miss X; Miss C; Michelle Harte; Savita Halappanavar; Miss Y…

      …unfortunately, these are not the only ones.

      Edited by; Allyn Quigley & Louise Finn

      Researched & Produced by; Aisling Malone

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB7Ifu4nl0U

      Reply
  10. johnny

    STI reports that liquidators of IRBC (Anglo) have made a data breach notification to the DPC over bank records given to Dennis O’Brien-whom they again call Ireland’s richest man.
    Having reviewed Digicel’s aborted IPO,and with the continuing decline of its core business,I don’t believe O’Brien has any equity left in Digicel,in my opinion its on the verge of bankruptcy, wiping out all the shareholders.
    The claim that O’Brien is Irelands richest man is BS.

    Reply
    1. john g

      Spot on Dennis O’Brien is up to his neck in loans
      When the markets smell blood its all over DOB
      His main area of business is in the wild west of business and very risky places like Haiti which sadly is far more corrupt than us.
      Mind you he did cleanse millions of debt here landing the taxpayer the bill through NAMA

      Reply
      1. Johnny

        Digi is ring fenced and bankruptcy remote from Dennis O’Brien,defaulting on those debts will have significant,most likely career ending impact in US,irish banks will probably still extend him credit…

        INM restructured (stiffed the state) it’s debt and has 90 million in cash,which he’d love get his hands on but..

        As far as I know his loans were non development and stayed with IRBC,minimal if any involvement with NAMA.

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        1. john g

          I give him a few years
          But there will be tears
          Hopefully the Irish taxpayer is not going to be exposed but DOB is so well connected

          Reply
          1. Johnny

            The most well know holder of Digicel bonds is “superstar” trader Michael Hasenstab in Templetons Emerging Market Fund.Michael made a fortune correctly speculating in Irish govt bonds,but since then hasn’t been so lucky.

            There will be no tears as investing in these is restricted to the “big boys”,the bonds are yielding 15% and are considered junk.

            Perhaps a better use of your time instead bombarding the various threads on here,would be used reading up a little,on the various topics you hold very strong and polarizing opinions on:)

            https://www.franklintempleton.com.sg/download/en-sg/common/gswepz1w/Templeton-Emerging-Markets-Bond-Fund-PORTFOLIO-HOLDINGS.pdf

  11. Gabby

    The C of E Book of Common Prayer wedding service 1662 version asks the man: ” WILT thou have this woman to thy wedded wife, to live together after God’s ordinance in the holy estate of Matrimony? Wilt thou love her, comfort her, honour, and keep her, in sickness and in health; and, forsaking all other, keep thee only unto her, so long as ye both shall live?” Yesterday at Windsor the Archbishop of Canterbury asked Harry the same question in a modernised version, but with the same solemn meaning of and duty implied in the adventure of holy matrimony. Jolly good show, John Wilby.

    Reply
  12. Catherine costelloe

    The teenage cellist was wonderful. Happy wedding embracing cultures and the mixed race bride looked so pretty. Best of luck to the happy couple!

    Reply
    1. john g

      I thought it was a really good wedding and actually think they will live happier ever after
      Her dress was stunning Givenchy wedding dress by Clair Waight Keller

      Reply
    2. Johnny

      News from the office off the occupied territory.In an attempt to normalize colonialism they used an Irish title !

      “Wonderful news that Her Majesty gifted the title of Baron Kilkeel on Prince Harry yesterday morning ahead of his Wedding. The Prince is the first royal to have been granted the title. The Kingdom of Mourne look forward to welcoming the Royal Couple when they next visit NI.“

      Reply
        1. Johnny

          First I heard off it was the NI office yesterday making that announcement,I could look,but it’s Sunday and the idea wading into Brit history is just too depressing :)

          Reply
        2. mildred st. meadowlark

          Its in Co Down, but if you want a proper map of that I’d say you’d want the Land Registry, but as it’s NI I’m not actually sure.

          Reply
      1. humpty dumpty

        Gerry Adams accepted an ancient title
        I think it was crown steward and bailiff of the manor of north stead in order to resign from the houses of parliament which he was an MP voted into office but refused to sit in parliament
        Strange these things

        Reply
        1. Johnny

          He never accepted it-it’s like buggery at Brit boarding schools an ancient tradition.

          “This is untrue,” he said in a statement. “I simply resigned. I was not consulted nor was I asked to accept such an office. I am an Irish republican. I have had no truck whatsoever with these antiquated and quite bizarre aspects of the British parliamentary system.

          “I have spoken to the prime minister’s private secretary today and he has apologised for today’s events.”

          https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/sinn-fein-chief-gerry-adams-rejects-aristocratic-baron-title-28584530.html

          Reply
  13. humpty dumpty

    A radical new tax to ban plastic’s
    The only way this can work is if the tax cannot be passed on to the end user.

    Reply
  14. humpty dumpty

    Coat rails and clocking in bones of contention shopping them from moving into new plush offices from dilapidated Hawkins house
    Just keep them where they are happy
    I am sure the building they are supposed to move to can be re let

    Reply

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