98 thoughts on “De Saturday Papers

  1. newsjustin

    Wow. Looks like some result for the Yes camp. If the result is as per exit polls then Frilly will have called it and I will doff my cap to her.

    I never would have believed abortion would be so popular. A Yes result, which looks certain, will lead to the killing of thousands upon thousands of humans – that’s additional to those currently being terminated in the UK and with illegal medication. This issue will never go away. It is a stain on humanity.

    1. Cu Cullan

      It’s about health care.. it’s always been about heath care.. and if you would drop the blinkers you might, just might, see that. Life is complex. Stop being so afraid. Learn to trust and love.

    2. SOQ

      Do you honestly think people are celebrating the proper treatment of crisis pregnancies? You may view this result as being an abstract but to the rest of us, it is a indication that as a nation we are growing up and taking responsibility for our actions.

      As you feel so strongly on the issue, you will be contributing to the extra support services of women which we all should now agree are badly needed?

      1. newsjustin

        “It is a indication that as a nation we are growing up and taking responsibility for our actions.”

        It is the precise opposite of this.

        And it’s not an abstract result. Every yes vote is supporting every abortion.

        1. Clampers Outside!

          It is not “opposite” to take responsibility for providing health care in one’s own country that is being sought abroad by that countries people.

          Whether you see that provision as such or not.

        2. scottser

          The whole country thinks you’re wrong. Suck it up mate and stop your preaching. We don’t like being preached to, you may have noticed.

          1. newsjustin

            Nobody likes being reminded that they’re directly supporting the ending of human life. I get that.

          2. mildred st. meadowlark

            That seems like you might be just being a bit deliberately obtuse.

            By all accounts, the country has voted overwhelmingly in favour of abortion. And unless they were living under a rock I’d say they have a good idea of what abortion is about. And yes, a pregnancy is ended, a foetus is terminated and yes, a potential life is ended, killed – however you wish to term it.

            To make that kind of claim, well it looks a bit silly.

            We all know what we voted for.

    3. johnny

      Stunning numbers Justin,the NO campaign in fairness was shambolic, the YES campaign was outstanding,Mary Lou and SF come out big winners here unlike the old men in FF.
      Good result for Leo and FG-congrats to all the volunteers and the voters and Ireland.

      1. SOQ

        Sorry but how did SF come out winners?

        It was FG who brought this referendum forward and if there was one outstanding performance, it was by Simon Harris. SF played to both camps and out of all parties, they probably have some of the most extreme anti abortion members of all.

        1. johnny

          FG already had PURGE night,gracioucis in victory, gallant in defeat and all that.
          Great result.

        2. PlumBobSmearPants

          FG definitely deserve credit for getting this across the line. For an establishment party to take the stance they did and for most of its leadership to demonstrate the support they did was brave. They brought it forward and by and large supported it. This was potentially political suicide. For Leo, it has copper-fastened his leadership. SC was not strong enough a voice in all of this. I say this not as a supporter because I’m not. It’s basic political analysis.

          What has also happened is their – all in the Dail and Seanad – lives will be made even more complex as the crazies will make their lives a misery as they legislate.

          Don’t forget not all of SF supported this. MM came across as a mealy mouthed milquetoast (love that word and never had a proper use for it here).

          Can’t wait to see constituency breakdown in the weekend papers.

        3. Andrew

          +1 SOQ
          The clamour to take credit for his result is unseemly. The people have indicated that they made their collective minds up years ago on this issue. The campaigns had negligible influence one way or another.
          The sitting government deserve the most credit for trusting the people and taking the lead by calling the referendum in the first place.
          Mary Lou and SF had fupp all to lose and their use of posters to promote Mary Lou was objectionable.
          Fianna Fail the ONLY party whose members were in the majority for a No vote.

          1. Nigel

            Ah. It begins. Now all the incredible hard work by campaigers and volunteers on the ground gets dismissed and sidelined. Remember when people talked about the jumpers and murals as only speaking to the people who already agreed with them? Either they were right and the Yes campaign rallied and energised those voters, or they were wrong and the Yes campaign successfully swayed swathes of undecideds. Either way they won the day.

          2. Andrew

            “Ah it begins”
            Nigel don’t take umbrage, I’m just stating the figures and results of the exit poll questions

            Do you need validation?
            It appears jumpers and murals didn’t make much difference one way or another. If it made you fee better about yourself then great. Well done you.

          3. Janet, I ate my Avatar

            it sure helps to humanize the debate when you see young people you know and respect wearing them you stop and think about the issue a little more personally

          4. Nigel

            Some things never change. The efforts of the feminists and the young people and the stalwart SJWs will have to be devalued because now Andrew has perfect 20-20 hindsight. The badges and jumpers worked. The canvassing worked. It only seems inevitable now after they built up all that support and momentum. If anyone had even hazarded to dream of a result like this yesterday you’d have pored as much scorn on them as you’re pouring on jumpers now. But I guess it makes you feel better the cheapen these things. Well done you. Ditch hurling goes on and the power and credit has to be returned to the parties

          5. Andrew

            Nigel, I am merely stating the results of the exit poll surveys, it is not ME who has 20/20 vision.
            Think what you like I don’t give a toss. You want validation I’m just glad the vote was for repeal and it was so overwhelming.
            I am glad there has been a Yes vote, I voted yes and I campaigned in the 1992 referendum, I came to blows with supporters of Youth Defence at the time.
            I had shouting arguments with the Níc Mathuna sisters on O’Connell street.
            Over the intervening years I have had some hard conversations and changed a few minds,. So you can phuck off with uour ‘hurler on the ditch’ comments
            This time people voted the way they did because they wanted to and they wanted to do that because times have moved on and they were ready to do so chats were had and minds were changed in the last 30 years and very few were changed in the last 5.
            If you think the jumpers, tweets and badges made the difference, great, pat yourself on the back Nigeldon’t expect me to though.
            This result should not be about self-congratulation it’s bigger than that.
            Now if I know you Nigel, you won’t leave it there, but I will.

          6. Nigel

            I just can’t wrap my head round the need to denigrate the efforts of the people who brought this about. Makes no sense to me.

      2. MaryLou's ArmaLite

        SF big winners? did you bump your head? The most prominent politician to oppose was from SF.

        All the parties except SF and FF are winners from this. SF get a pass, but Tobin looked a fool on the RTE debate. FF big loosers.

      3. Clampers Outside!

        Praising Mary Lou?

        wtf?

        For what? No conscience vote for her party…. so, you agree with that kinda thing now… when it suits you? Ridiculous.

        Her party released paedos and rapists to commit crimes on people of the south, and did so to protect her political party… she’s a scumbag, always will be for that.

        1. GiggidyGoo

          And FGs Noonan did a lot for the people of Waterford…same as FF Keneally, same location?

          1. italia'90

            Take the blinkers off Clampers, just for a few days please.
            I don’t like to tactic of using her image on their posters, but I imagine it was a percentage call by her PR machine.
            Can you give credit where it is due? She was one of the stronger performers in the Claire Byrne debate/debacle when her other team mates were not as convincing.
            Solidarity and the Left have gained some ground. They have been consistent and closer to the grass roots. What would SF have to do to placate you? Without dragging up the complexities and the vile actions of those who are not genuine republicans. I would contend that nationalists and sectarians have been posing as republicans to intimidate, bully and control certain geographic and economically deprived areas especially but not exclusively in the North.

          2. Clampers Outside!

            To placate me…? Well, they could do what I’ve only ever asked of SF. Get rid of Mary Lou and Pearse Doherty bith of whom screamed at TV cameras that it was disgraceful, disgusting and said it was a “lie” to say that SF ran kangaroo courts, and released sex offenders to reoffend on the public in the south. And all just to protect her party….

            Get her out, and Pearse too… and any other scumbag who denied those courts were operated by SF. That’ll placate me, seeing as u asked.

          3. italia'90

            I suppose you are never going to stop hating them, and with good reason I imagine. I nearly puked the day I heard her on the radio defend Gerry and how he protected his paedo brother.
            However, I’ll give her some credit for the bit she did during this referendum. Doesn’t mean I’m forgiving or forgetting what she has said in the past.

            There was a mad story years ago, now verified iirc, about a young volunteer who was brought to a safe house and tortured before one of these internal security courts. There was in total 6 men, including the young man present in the house. 5 of them were British paid informers/agents and none the wiser about their comrades being double agents. Guess which one wasn’t?

        2. Johnny

          Your a lot closer to the zealots and down right crazies that have just lost by a stunning margin.Its unhealthy and myoptic to be so stuck in the past,wake up take a look around,Ireland has changed,do try not get left too far behind,evoking “rape” and “paedos” to politically point score,illustrates how craven you are.Dont be so afraid,the future is here and it’s SF’s.

          1. Clampers Outside!

            It was a couple of years ago, not at all ‘stuck in the past’ Johnny…. just a couple of years.

            if u can forgive SF, Mary Lou and Pearse for shifting paedos around and denying it, you should have no problem forgiving the RCC for doing the same when they shifted paedos around the island, and denied it. I won’t.

          2. Clampers Outside!

            I’m not “evoking” anything, it’s a fact that has always been of SF’s / Mary Lou and Pearse’s making.
            It’s straight forward and factual, as ML’s lame apology, admission of guilt, proves.
            Nothing is summoned or evoked, it’s an inyour face fact that ML and Pearse will put there party before victims of their actions, nothing more.

            Evolution me hoop Johnny, it’d only need be evoked for those who willfully deny the truth of what was done by those scumbags.

    4. Pat

      Fair play for showing up to comment Justin. Shows real character. The hoop must be stung off you

      1. Janet, I ate my Avatar

        this
        I hope you are ok …genuinely
        I hope woth time you’ll come to see that this is to relieve suffering too

    5. Martco

      your side lost this battle in spectacular fashion @newsjustin

      I think we can both agree that the deepest cut in all this is that whopping margin…it will enable change & whilst I have no respect for your message I know you’re just the scorpion on the frogs back doing its thing

      see you at the next battle

    6. TheRealJane

      See this is the thing, Justin. The Iona institute etc are speaking to a constituency that no longer exists. I personally believe that many of the people the likes of Mullen and Monaghan were trying to reach were simply horrified by the series of utterly bizarre gaffes which showed a level of contempt for the dignity, struggles and heartbreaks of citizens across the country which disgusted people.
      And your comment is in that bracket. What the Irish people clearly know, and what you and the Iona institute should have considered, is that abortion is not all that rare. Irish families are good, historically, ag keeping their secrets and it seems to me that one of the secrets they were keeping is that they knew, and sympathised and empathised and agreed with the decision or accepted with love the decision, of their loved one to do the best thing they could for themselves.
      Much as the abortion campaign tried to present a foetus as a miniature homunculus implanted in a woman, just resting a bit till the time came, most people’s grasp of the toll that pregnancy can have on women, on couples and on families is more realistic than that and the no side had zero to offer.

      1. Spaghetti Hoop

        Nicely put. Ireland’s notorious murky carpet has been lifted. In this topic anyhow.

        1. Janet, I ate my Avatar

          let’s get every room in the house done now
          Chase out the rising damp and the bugs
          maybe add some nice sky lights :)

          1. Spaghetti Hoop

            Remove all of the heavy black pots and kettles from the back burner. Get some new IKEA ones.

          2. Janet, I ate my Avatar

            downstairs loo
            and an extension
            sorry hard not to get carried away today
            Happy weekend Ireland !

          3. mildred st. meadowlark

            Happy weekend janet! I’ve been smiling since I woke up. I can’t explain how much it means to know that mini meadowlark will not have to grow up without choice, that she will know what I didn’t.

            I’m amazed.

      2. Cu Cullan

        Brilliant comment.. we are growing and maturing as people as a society and as a country.. and as individuals.. it’s very rare indeed for Cu Cullen to shed a tear, but I’m welling up every few minutes so happy am I today.. proud to be part of the journey ..

      3. SOQ

        Government should be immediately bringing forward legislation to define what consistences an institute and how it is funded. Serious questions must be asked of the media, particularly of RTE, as to why these right wing extremists are given so much airtime.

        1. newsjustin

          “Why, oh why are people I don’t agree with allowed on tv and radio?”

          – SOQ

          1. SOQ

            I have no problem with opposing views news, but I seriously question how such a small cult, which is extreme by even Catholic standards, is given so much airtime.

            Are you actually defending these wingnuts?

    7. Frilly Keane

      You see Justine
      That’s where the No-Sider campaign made their biggest mistake

      Ye made it about Abortion
      And the uglier the poster the better,

      Yes went with;
      Equality
      Humanity
      Empathy
      Sincerity
      Even a bitta truth here and there
      And the simplest basic fact
      A right to make a decision with the assistance of Medical Professionals

      It also helps that most of the No-Side are particularly unlikable
      They were our best asset

      1. newsjustin

        “Ye made it about Abortion”

        This is true. And says it all about the nonsense Yes voters have told themselves to support abortion.

        1. Nigel

          I’ll disagree with m’learned colleague above. This was about a very specific constitutional amendment with very specific effects. Secular opponents to abortion like yourself should not have cleaved yourselves to an artifact of the old misogynistic patriarchal power of Catholicism. It showed you were willing to subject women to its cruelties as a price to pay for keeping abortion illegal, rather than rejecting the 8th as an obvious horror and advocating for a strict but humane abortion regime. That would have been harder, yes, but you went the easy route and aligned yourself with the very worst of our religious anti-women legacies.

          There you go. That’s your ‘you did it wrong’ lecture. Everybody was lining up to deliver them to the Yes side all through the campaign. Seems only fair to return the favour.

        2. Frilly Keane

          here again Justine
          you are pick n’mixing

          It is a now published fact
          that 84% of the Yes votes polled said it was the RIGHT TO CHOOSE
          see that
          ProCHOICE was 84%
          Rape & Incest cases
          and FFA made up the remaining 16%

          nothing else, it had nothing to do with introducing the procedure at all

    8. Cian

      Newsjustin isn’t wrong.
      In 2020, when the full year 2019 Irish abortion figures are released, there will be a huge jump from the current 3500 UK figure. Not that there will necessarily be more abortions, just they will all be counted officially.
      And as a nation we will need to look at ourselves and see what we can do to reduce that figure. Through education, subsidised contraception, and improved support for families.

      1. SOQ

        +1.

        Also, to some this was a very hurtful campaign and there is a lot of healing to be done.

        1. newsjustin

          There will be no healing while thousands upon thousands of unborn babies are killed. Society can never wash that stain away.

          1. Repro-choice Bertie

            Does this mean you’ll be campaigning for decent sex education and free access to contraception to help prevent the need for abortion?

          2. newsjustin

            Of course. And much needed support for new mothers and young families, as I’ve always done.

            The problem is, abortion on demand will now be legal. Abortion rates will increase massively.

          3. SOQ

            Decent sex education starts in the schools and there is very little chance of that happening while there is church involvement.

          4. Nigel

            There will be the healing of women who won’t have to wait until they’re in danger before receiving treatment but they don’t count I suppose.

        2. mildred st. meadowlark

          Agree with you both. It’s a great day for Ireland, stepping up to address the sins of the past, and to grant rights and compassionate care to its women. But it’s going to take some time before abortion isn’t a hugely divisive topic in this country.

          But we ought to work as hard as we can to keep the number low, to educate and support women whatever their circumstances in pregnancy.

          1. newsjustin

            I agree entirely with your second paragraph Mildred.

            But abortion will always be divisive. Because abortion as envisaged for Ireland is appalling, barbaric violence.

          2. italia'90

            News: We know you support abortion, just not in Ireland. We get it. Now please go and do one. The rest of us stopped being hypocrites a couple of decades ago.

          3. newsjustin

            I don’t support abortion anywhere.

            You support it everywhere.

            Neither of us a hypocritical in that sense.

          4. Cian

            Newsjustin – “Because abortion as envisaged for Ireland is appalling, barbaric violence”. I think you’re being over dramatic.
            The abortion legislation proposed will see the vast majority of abortions involving taking two pills.
            Not barbabaric violence. Taking two pills.

            The scale may be appalling. I’m going to put a figure of 9,500 in the first full year. But I believe we can reduce the crisis pregnancies by improving sex education, cheaper contraception, and improved support for families.

      2. TheRealJane

        Indeed. There was a letter from someone medical in the independent during the campaign who was talking about very young women having abortions so that they wouldn’t miss out on their education and establishing a career. We’ve got to think about the kind of society that leaves young people with such bald and absolute options.
        There must be a way to do both and we should find it. I’m fully in favour of women choosing for any reason but I don’t think coercion by a lack of realistic options is any way for society to progress.

  2. Not On Your Nelly

    Positive. Irish. News.

    *grabs on with both hands*

    *Reelin’ in the years kicks in*

  3. Sheik Yahbouti

    I’m almost dizzy with joy that it seems we got this over the line. Onwards and upwards.

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