Eighthquake

at

 

 

 

This afternoon.

Dublin Castle, Dublin 2

Jubilant Yes campaigners and Taoiseach Leo Varadkar celebrate the vote to repeal the 8th Amendment.

More as we get it.

Sam Boal/RollingNews.ie

Meanwhile, in the RDS…

This afternoon.

RDS, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4

Minister for Health Simon Harris (pic 4) and Sinn Féin President Mary Lou McDonald (pic 7) join Jubilant Yes campaigners at the  Dublin count centre as results from the Eighth Amendment referendum come in.

Earlier: Love Vote

Rollingnews

192 thoughts on “Eighthquake

        1. veritas

          yes loving both until after the birth,then she is a welfare sponger and the baby a tearaway from a single parent family in many cases

    1. George

      It was a landslide, Tom. You are surrounded by “vile people”. Try El Salvador or Nicaragua. I hear John Waters might be looking for a flat mate.

      1. alfie

        Maybe down south in Peru where peasants were sterilized, in 1996 the programme was a government program to keep down the birth rate
        Check it out on the BBC for I remember the BBC did a programme about it
        Being an old person you remember bits and pieces that you read about but cannot fully remember it
        Took ages to find it
        As I remember these clinics were run by the peace corps and it was a examination but because it might be painful the victims were told they would be asleep
        They woke up sterilized
        Later on an investigation was conducted by the Peruvian government and guess what the all clear
        These women still to this date are awaiting justice but of course its lies all lies

    2. James inXs

      Keep it up. It means less campaigning for the rest of us to do to make Ireland a better place. Have you thought about emigrating to Northern Ireland or Donegal to be amongst kindred spirits?

    1. mildred st. meadowlark

      I see people cheering for women’s rights. I see them cheering for accountability. I see them cheering for compassion.

      No one is cheering the death of babies. Surely the many stories that countless women have shared over the course of this campaign have taught you this, even if you don’t agree with them.

      1. newsjustin

        They are, of course, cheering the death of babies. That is precisely what they campaigned for.

        1. mildred st. meadowlark

          You choose to see it that way.

          I see it as a day where the country voted in huge numbers to value my daughter’s life, my life, women’s lives over those of a foetus – which may or may not live.

          They have chosen healthcare for women – because deny it all you want, it is healthcare. It’s not just abortion. It’s allowing women to make their own informed choices about their bodies and their healthcare.

          And just because that’s going to happen, it doesn’t follow that women are automatically going to get abortions now like they’re some trendy accessory.

          I am happy we have chosen to remove the eighth. I’m delighted that my daughter will grow up with more choice than I did. I am hoping that our government can responsibly legislate for abortion.

          1. newsjustin

            Abortion is only healthcare in a very small percentage of cases – already catered for in Ireland. In all other circumstances it is choice. A choice to destroy life.

            You may welcome this for your daughters. I am fearful that my daughters will now grow up in a nation that values human life so little it would allow unborn babies to be aborted. I am fearful that my disabled and, most of all, my “unwanted” brothers and sisters can now have their lives taken from them. Because nobody wants them. Terrifying.

          2. mildred st. meadowlark

            You know what’s terrifying?

            Having no say over something as life-changing as pregnancy. It’s so easy for you to be moral and noble about the ‘lives’ taken. You will ever fear that if something goes wrong in pregnancy that your life comes second. You will never understand that impossible choice – because you will never have to experience it. YOU will never understand what it is like to be trapped by your gender and law.

            And now, the women of Ireland will know that freedom too.

          3. realPolithicks

            Don’t waste your time Mildred, this guy is a self righteous fundamentalist. He knows whats best for you and all other women.

        2. scottser

          That comment show your true colours as a selfish boo boo and not the intelligent debater you try and portray yourself as.

    2. Repro-choice Bertie

      Nobody is cheering for death but you know this. We were told this would be close. It wasn’t. What you’re seeing is a mixture of relief that we won and amazement we won by so much.

      1. newsjustin

        Won what? The ability to abort unborn humans. They are not cheering Xs on slips of paper.

        1. Repro-choice Bertie

          Won the referendum.
          Won an incredibly divisive campaign.
          Won the right to seek healthcare in their own country.
          Won the freedom to dismiss the out of touch vocal minority of holier-than-thous.

    3. martco

      the thing y’all need to understand here is @newsjustin is just doing his job here today…..you’re posting like a divil today @newsjustin but thats the mission & not an easy road I imagine.

      but what you’re not getting here @newsjustin is any buy-in to your core message. nobody here or in other places online or offline gives a fig for it. it’s all been said to you before here.

      but one of the larger messages here in this result is that your church is being kicked out. battle by battle the people of this state will achieve eventual freedom from the interfering tentacles of religion in state matters. the people of this state want a different place to live. one with choice. I firmly believe this vote is a marker for a future potential reshaping of this country, a secular Republic Of Ireland v2.0 @newsjustin & your lot’s time is up.

      I’ve no doubt the oul conference calls are flying about now in certain places. you’re entitled to be angry, throwing the toys around, getting the barbs in. it’s just misdirected. go talk to the NO campaign & the people who threw millions at a really stupid & obvious campaign, take it out on them. a campaign more suited for the 1950’s. when you stand back & look at it @newsjustin you’ll see that it just p@$$ed everyone off, a classic hits fupp up. a campaign that I doubt won many hearts & minds.

      1. Junkface

        Well said. Ireland is becoming a true modern Republic. One free of ridiculous Religions and their Bronze Age ideals and laws. This is a new Ireland

        1. newsjustin

          Ha. The new, modern Ireland that offers the ancient barbarism of abortion to women as a solution to anything.

          It’s {Current Year} everyone!

      2. Clampers Outside!

        We need a referendum on our blasphemy laws next.

        That’ll be fun as there’ll be more than one religion fighting to keep it.

        I only hope that campaigners will be as bold with mocking all the religions that will protest their removal…. we can all wait and see….

        1. mildred st. meadowlark

          A worthy battle. I’d be happy to remove that – if we truly wish to have a secular and equal society, we need to take this step.

          Couple this with removing religious influence from our State schools and we’ll be seeing real progress in separation of church and state.

        2. Yep

          That referendum is in October Clamps. Not much build up thankfully and it’s in with the Pres elections so there won’t be much debating on the issue.

          It will be gone.

        3. painkiller

          Yeah, we can get behind that…as long as we can get the human rights and equality commission to take care of acceptable speech to protect special groups in the meantime. The only person addressed as sir in Ireland will be the Irish Traveller. It’s a road to absurdity.

          Has anyone every been challenged under blasphemy law? Cause I suspect the social justice warriors at the human rights and equality commission are far more trigger happy.

      3. Cu Cullan

        Well said Martco, spot on. We’ve had a good run out of them and it’s been great to sharpen the arguments.. but I’m going to let them off now. This job is done.

    4. PlumBobSmearPants

      Hey here’s a question for you. When a woman suffers a miscarriage and requests full funeral services from your church, why won’t it provide them?

      I mean it’s a dead ‘baby’, right?

      Oh, and don’t bother responding. I already know the answer.

      1. newsjustin

        Because miscarried and stillborn infants go straight to heaven Plum. There is no need for a requiem.

        The RCC’s deeply flawed “limbo” theory is no more. Science has conclusively shown us all that unborn babies are fully unique humans.

        So while the RCC has evolved to give proper respect to unborn human’s, Ireland has just decided they are disposable.

        1. mildred st. meadowlark

          There is no heaven imo. None.

          You die and with it so does all sentience and consciousness. You are gone. There is no hereafter.

          But your stance makes a lot more sense to me now.

          1. newsjustin

            Limbo was (and still persists as) a theological speculation. It is not thought in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It was suggested as a (unnecessary) explanation of how God allows inspired infants to go to heaven.

            It was and is flawed theologically and has been abandoned as the humanity of the unborn becomes further and further illuminated by science.

        2. Clampers Outside!

          According to the Bible, a foetus has no soul. And a baby has none until it draws its first breath, according to the Bible….

          So i ask, how do they get into heaven without a soul?

          1. Nigel

            Newsjustin proves it’s possible to support a misogynistic law designed by people of religious faith for the supression of women’s rights without actually believing in the Bible. Ecumenical and secular misogyny join hands across the divide.

          2. DeKloot

            This. It’s farcical really. All this bulllpoo about babies being murdered and the very basis of their belief system completely contradicts all the noise and all the rhetoric. If they – the RCC really believed in ensouiment at conception, they’d explicitly state that it does. They do not. The very notion that unborn go straight to heaven is understandable give they are deemed morally innocent yet It’s neither supported by catechism or canon law. They’ve had centuries of debate and yet they’ll still refuse funeral rites regardless.

          1. DeKloot

            That’s the question. You won’t get a straight answer from clergy regarding ensoulment as it is neither supported by catechism or canon law. As a result of this, funeral rites are not provided to the unborn. All lay-made statements regarding the status of a foetus is childish and uninformed. In short, it’s all a nonsense.

          2. newsjustin

            DeKloot, burial rites are performed for stillborn and miscarried babies as a mark of love and respect. A full requiem mass is not necessary as they have, obviously, never sinned and their salvation re original sin is left to the loving mercy of God. Limbo is unnessecary, it is not mentioned in the Catechism.

    5. George

      I’m particularly pleased thinking of your reaction to the vote, Justin. They’re celebrating a removal of a restriction on the human rights of women as you’re well aware. Ireland provides for abortion already through the right to travel but will now have a more sensible system. But you’ll have forgotten all about it by next week and it will never affect you in anyway.

      1. newsjustin

        I’m glad, for your own sake, that you are thinking of me rather than the babies you have supported the termination of. Believing it is me you are hurting and not babies will help you sleep better.

  1. Junkface

    Fantastic Result for Democracy! A landslide. Out with the old, in with the New.

    Sod off Iona Institute forever!

  2. Peter Dempsey

    The people have spoken. Well done to the Yes team and supporters. You put the hard work in and got the result you wanted.

  3. Boomskidaboom

    Look at all that emotion, pouring out as the results for yes come in. Congrats to all who campaigned so hard to bring this country further away from the grasp of the Catholic church.

    1. newsjustin

      It’s remarkable, but not surprising, that the Catholic thing is so important to many Yes voters.

      They will cheer the killing of unborn humans because it’s one in the eye for the church.

        1. newsjustin

          I’m baffled that people think the activities of medieval people when it comes to foetal development and pregnamcy is anything we should be taking a cue from. Baffled.

          1. Clampers Outside!

            You used the old church traditions, etc. argument on the matter of the marriage ref did u not. Why is it you’ll only be selective about the past traditions of the church you choose to keep, I wonder…

          2. SOQ

            newjustin, just wondering, does the mother of your girls also agree with your no abortion under any circumstances stance?

      1. Nigel

        And I remember a time when you scorned Yes supporters for saying inflammatory things about the No side.

      2. George

        The catholic church was the source of the problem not the reason for correcting it.

  4. Clampers Outside!

    And next we need to fix it so that a man can choose to be a father or not, and not ‘forced’ into it, otherwise it would be a double standard, where only a woman/girl can choose to be a parent or not.

    For example, two teens get together, she gets pregnant and chooses to keep it, then the man/boy should be allowed to choose to not be the father, and not forced to raise a kid he does not want. This way, he’ll have the same (as close as can be) choice/rights as the woman.

    That’ll be a doozy of a debate.

    1. Bob

      Let’s have a conversation about father’s rights:

      If you don’t want to be a father don’t have sex.
      THE END.

      There will not be any debate.
      Anyway the reality is you can only do so much to force bad parents to take responsibility, just look at the family courts. Fathers are legally required to take responsibility to for their children but that doesn’t mean they will.

      In the hypothetical case you suggest if the teens are both under 16 the boy will automatically be a statutory rapist. The law would benefit from a dose of reality, with extra measures to protect teens against predatory adults or people of influence (such as teachers).

      1. Clampers Outside!

        “If you don’t want to get pregnant don’t have sex”…. isn’t that the RCC argument to prevent pregnancy, why take that argument now, it was argued constantly as the answer to unwanted pregnancies by the No side, why do u think it is workable now? Seems odd to say the least.

        1. Bob

          I’m not saying it isn’t odd, or that it is fair or equal, I’m saying it’s what we’ve got.

    2. realPolithicks

      Ah Clampers you’re so tone deaf it isn’t even funny anymore. If a man doesn’t want to be a father then he should take the measures necessary to ensure it doesn’t happen like say wearing a condom during sex or having his tubes tied. In your world its always a womans fault if she becomes pregnant, take some personal responsibility.

        1. realPolithicks

          That is such a childish and idiotic comment I don’t even know how to respond. You have a very odd worldview, verging on the paranoid.

      1. painkiller

        What if she lies about the contraception situation? People can be deceptive and not everyone likes condoms.

        If a man were to get a vasectomy and not tell his wife and lead her to believe they were trying for a child but refuse to go to a fertility clinic… would you take more issue with that?

          1. painkiller

            Indeed but would the court see it that way? After all…some here argue that he had his fun, and nothing is free. So liberal yet not liberal at all.

    3. johnny

      “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” Twain

    4. Clampers Outside!

      According to Bob and realPolithicks, if a women gets pregnant, it may or may not be her fault and she can choose not to go ahead with it.
      And with regard to the guys role… it’s simply ‘his’ fault and he has no choice but to roll with whatever the woman decides.

      It’s not an equality thing then, yeah?
      Only one person needs concern themselves with being responsible, the guy, and the woman has no responsibilities unless she chooses to have them, after the act and if pregnant…

      Odd that, no? Sexist even.

      Like I said, an interesting debate to be had.

      1. realPolithicks

        Clampers you’re nothing but a classic “angry white male” constantly inventing reasons why men are so hard done by in todays society, get real!

      2. Daisy Chainsaw

        Unless she was visited by an emissary of god and told she was pregnant without doing the sex, then it’s not all her fault! Don’t have sex with a pre menopausal woman or girl if you don’t want to risk fatherhood.

      3. Bob

        Don’t presume that you know my politics.

        I find most debates have silly arguments on both sides, don’t take my pointing them out as support of them.

        You can try and have the argument but I dont think you’ll get anywhere with it but to help you get started here’s what the BBC had to say about Abortion and Father’s rights
        http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/legal/fathers.shtml

      4. painkiller

        + 10,000

        All responsibility and blame belong to men now. This is a remarkable achievement in social engineering dressed up as progress.

          1. painkiller

            I don’t mean this point to be cruel but a disability group advocated the repeal vote.

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            Women with disabilities get pregnant too you know. The legs may not function, but the uterus does. Women like Grace, abused and raped by her foster father can get pregnant… do you think an intellectual disability or autism can be diagnosed before 12 weeks gestation?

        1. Nigel

          Since men won’t be spending nine months growing then pushing a watermelon out between their legs that is absurdly untrue.

      5. Nigel

        You’re kinda constructing your argument in bad faith. There are many permutations to a situation like that. Ideally everything’s consensual and both will reach a decision together. Ultimately the woman has to have the final say because she’s the one carrying the baby. After that I’m sure there are all sorts of puzzling hypotheticals to challenge the legal or ethical.mind with bad actors on either side. None of them get past the simple principal that at the end of the day the woman’s”s choice is the final word.

        1. Clampers Outside!

          No bad faith, none.
          The point is raised in that BBC link ( on the page here, on another comment ), and the problems of it with regard to equality and rights.

          The rest of your comment I have no issue with.

    5. George

      You are suggesting the man should/might be able to force the woman to have an abortion? You’re madder than I thought if you think that’s ever going to be a serious proposal.

      1. painkiller

        He is saying that women have been empowered in a way that flies in the face of an equality argument. Not all people are good and it’s a naive assumption to think they are, especially where power is concerned.

        Come back when you’ve been in a situation where you’ve had someone put the boot on your neck…I can assure you, it’s an eye opening experience – “you lost your right to any say in this when you entered me” ….yeah, let’s cheerlead that kind of equality.

        Until then, continue with the white-knighting. I hope it brings you as much success with the opposite sex as calculated.

    6. SOQ

      Clampers, yesterday we had probably the biggest single step forward in women’s rights in the history of the state. It is something that we all should welcome and celebrate.

      Men have had it their own way for a very long time and to attempt to introduce father’s rights into the debate before the votes are even counted, is in very bad taste. Sorry, but it is.

      Let people have their day because it has been a long and hard battle. Now is not the time.

    1. SOQ

      The irony of the prods siding the Catholic Church is not lost. Normal conservative / liberal politics may actually be starting to happen.

  5. SOQ

    There were a number of independent TD’s who were very pro life. It will be interesting to see if their stance will have an impact on their chances of re-election.

    1. Bob

      There were even a few who said they were pro repeal and anti abortion.

      It isn’t that difficult to see a need for change but not like the proposed changes.

      Conversely lets see Harris talk about choice next time Vera Twomey asks him why she can’t get the healthcare her child needs.

  6. Somewhat Bemused

    Is it just me, or is it Ironic that the first thing RTE says after the Angelus at 6:00 o’clock is ‘Ireland have decided to move out from the shadow of the Church’ (or words to that effect)?

  7. painkiller

    The frenzied orcs have been partying since noon. Was expecting to see a more rainbow flags and #yesequality badges.

    George Soros and Marie Stopes executives will drink the expensive stuff but unlike our orcs, they don’t drink before 5 in the day, even when it’s their day.

    1. mildred st. meadowlark

      Did you enjoy voting yes as you claimed?

      Because that doesn’t read as someone who is, you know, happy to see the referendum pass. This is democracy in action. Something you made quite an argument of in the run up to the referendum.

      1. painkiller

        I didn’t vote. Unable to but would have been torn. We don’t have the ethics to handle abortion on demand. Marie Stopes is not healthcate. It’s a disclaimer and a procedure with no follow up. I have mixed feelings given our record on soft regulation and inept political establishment.

        1. mildred st. meadowlark

          Oh I’m sorry, I missed the story where we were getting Marie Stopes clinics here.

          We’re not the UK. And I think that given the level of debate over the past few weeks over this very contentious issue, it’s a bit unjust of you to claim that we haven’t the ethics to deal with abortion on request. I truly think that we can appropriately legislate for abortion and do it sensitively and responsibly, in a way that will encourage better sexual health in women.

          If we can do this, and we can provide proper sex ed, better access to contraception for men and women, and better supports for pregnant women, we can build a better society.

          Maybe I’m being a bit naive but if I voted Yes for my daughter (and she was one of my main motivations for voting Yes) it’s because I want her to grow up in the best future I can provide for her. Isn’t that what any parent wants for their child?

  8. Termagant

    They keep mentioning this “quiet revolution”, my experience was that it was incredibly loud to the point of being all-consuming

    1. George

      Well, we better never hear the Iona Institute, John Waters, Mc Guirk etc talk about the “silent majority”. This concept has been shown to be a fallacy over two referenda and if they start saying it again on RTE they better be challenged.

      1. Bob

        Millions eat McDonalds is not a strong argument of quality, only an indication of popularity. Majority or not it is a silly argument.

        Having said that how many people actually bothered to vote?
        I got the impression turnout was higher than usual for a referendum but I might be mistaken and I’ll be interested to see the percentages.

        1. mildred st. meadowlark

          That’s the plan is it? Keep casting doubt over what was a resounding vote in favour of repeal?

          Doesn’t matter what way you wash this one, it still comes out the same way. People came out, they registered, young people were engaged in politics – in their future – for the first time, and they voted in droves. And the majority voted Yes.

          1. Bob

            Nope, that wasn’t what I was trying to say.

            I was trying to say McGuirk was stupid for ever making claims of a silent majority, but yes that cuts both ways.

            In response to your comment though I’d bet those who aren’t bothered to vote aren’t bothered in general and higher turnout would only further benefit the Yes vote.

          2. mildred st. meadowlark

            Ah, my apologies for reading you wrong there! I think after the fraught atmosphere of the last week I’m inclined to be a bit trigger happy with my responses.

            In general though, I agree with what you’re saying. And McGuirk is a fool. They overplayed their hand a bit I think.

          3. SOQ

            I know one thing, no matter how righteous campaigns may be in the future, I would be very reluctant to support anything Keith Mills is involved in because he like the kiss of death. LOL

  9. Martco

    congrats everyone & enjoy your evenings. I’m bringing my staff out for a scheduled (as in now to do with the vote) evening on the tiles one I’ll enjoy to the max as they’re a great bunch!
    it’s really nice to see the discourse on BS & especially when it’s a big political event…I learn a lot from everyone.
    I genuinely I wish there was some magic way we could be in a pub lounge together having the chats, arguments, laughs. Bodger should fix the app asap to make that possible!
    anyway have a great evening y’all & stay out of trouble x
    Martco

          1. Frilly Keane

            8 more years
            Shurly

            Mind you
            ‘cant wait t’ see what Bodger puts together for this

  10. Sheik Yahbouti

    So disappointed that the miserable effin naysayers can’t even let the people of Ireland have one day of celebration. Just one day. Already the threats of a thousand rearguard actions and general spoiling have been issued. People don’t seem to understand that the Sherlocks, Quinn et al are paid agitators on this matter – they have no other legitimate work. Others who have work (Mullen – mainly drinking at the public teat) are similarly motivated. It will be a long road but we must persevere and finally defeat the tiny coterie of people who have such a disproportionate effect on the lives of their fellow citizens.

    1. Catherine costelloe

      Effin in Limerick had a resounding “Yes” Sheikie! As did Meanus (no kidding) also in Limerick.

    1. Bob

      People who have only voted for one other referendum might actually think that’s it is normal and appropriate to have a post referendum party.

      I’m a little surprised by the numbers in this referendum, I expected it to be closer, as I thought it would be more controversial than Same Sex Marriage. The previous referendum only got 62% compared to 66.4% this time.

      Maybe it does indicate a larger social trend.

      Then again this is still the same Ireland that didn’t think anyone under 35 should even be allowed the possibility of running for the position of our figurehead-with-no-actual-power President.

    2. Owen

      +1

      A country patting itself on the back for something that should have been done years ago. My FB page is a painful read of individuals making more of this ‘personal achievement’ then it needs to be.

      The 8th was the obvious and low hanging fruit of changes needed in Ireland. Lets not pretend we have done something that was (a) not expected, and (b) not just catching up with Europe.

      1. Nigel

        Wow I bet the people celebrating needed your wise insight to abortionsplain that to them.

      2. Niamh

        Low hanging fruit?

        The penalty of 14 years in prison for procuring pills in Ireland was introduced just a few years ago, after the death of Savita. It was a shockingly emphatic statement of anti-choice sentiment at government level – more time in prison than for rape.

        You are minimising the achievement as a last resort, ’cause you lost. You’re on the wrong side of history. Suck it up.

        1. Owen

          Well that’s just it, I’m a yes voter. Who, even remotely educated, would vote no? You have just entirely vindicated my point. Did you even read my comment, or just jump on a chance to be a righteous preacher of freedom?

          Listen carefully now…….Its so obvious that it needed to be a YES, that it’s embarrassing it even came to a referendum.

          Lets all move on.

          1. Janet, I ate my Avatar

            just because a house is filthy doesn’t mean it will get cleaned,
            someone has to pick up the mop and put the hard work in

          2. realPolithicks

            So you knew all along the the 8th would be repealed did you? Something tells me you’re full of it Mr Nostradamus, this is a tremendous achievement and no amount of attempts to downplay it by people like you will change that.

          3. Owen

            I never said anything about a forgone conclusion, I said it something that was an embarrassment that we had to vote for. But go one enjoy yourselves. Who am I to stop a party……

  11. Frilly Keane

    MaryLou summed it all up

    “The people led
    Politicians followed”

    Btw thanks for remembering t’was here the outcome was predicted
    And I know some of ye stepped up and took back yere remarks

    I’m also told t’was on the BBC News and Sky News that “Broadsheet got it to a T”

    Anyway. Business as usual on a Cork Tipp weekend
    Hon Da Rebelssssss
    Btw NO-ONE saw that + 11 coming in Thurles
    Not even me

    1. Bob

      Someone on Broadsheet made jokes about 66.6 (among many other predictions) and ended up being more accurate than the polls that even with taking account their generous margin of error still didn’t accurately predict 66.4.

      1. Frilly Keane

        Ah Bob
        Did someone help themselves to the last bitta milk in the house and left you with only silly soya stuff for your Bran Flakes this morning

        ‘hate da’

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