Tag Archives: Liveline

G’wan the 29 per cent.



G’wan the 60 per cent.



Well maybe you shouldn’t be living heeeeeeeeeerrrrrrre.

From top: Karen Leach, Derry O’Rourke and George Gibney

This afternoon.

On RTÉ’s Liveline.

Karen Leach spoke to Joe Duffy about the abuse she suffered at the hands of former Irish swimming coach Derry O’Rourke.

She also spoke about fellow former Irish swimming coach George Gibney.

Readers will recall how, in November 1997, at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court, O’Rourke, who was represented by Patrick Gageby SC, pleaded guilty to 29 sample charges of sexual abuse against 11 young swimmers, on numerous occasions between 1976 and 1992.

Judge Kieran O’Connor was told O’Rourke originally faced 90 charges.

The court also heard O’Rourke tried to hypnotise some of his victims.

In January 1998, O’Rourke was given a 12-year sentence.

Karen told Liveline that she didn’t tell anyone about how O’Rourke abused her until after he was jailed.

She said the abuse destroyed everything in her life and that her heartbroken mother later took her life.

She also mentioned another Irish swimming coach George Gibney who had sex abuse charges against him quashed after a 1994 High Court judicial review.

Karen said:

“Derry O’Rourke was my swimming coach, the Irish Olympic coach at the time also and I swam from the age of about 10 to 17. I had a dream as a little girl and my dream was to swim for Ireland at the Olympics, that’s all.

“I believed I could do it. My mam and dad believed that I could do that and he knew what my dream was. He took full advantage of that from me and many other swimmers in our swimming club.

“He’s not the only swimming coach that  has abused swimmers in Ireland. It started with my training. Everything he said, everything that he wanted, he got. No one answered back Derry O’Rourke. He was god.

“He was given the power by people and adults, the Irish sports organisations, the government, everybody. He was given the power and in that power, he took it to abuse me and many other children.

“It destroyed my life and I lost everything, absolutely everything. It’s only this year, 2017, that I’m talking to you as Karen Leach, 100 per cent, back in my mind, heart, soul and body.

“I spent 37 years in prison because of what that man did to me. He got 12 years concurrent for 18 girls and many more that have contacted me since I went public, have never, weren’t able to come forward and speak. He was out after nine years.

George Gibney did the same to his swimmers in Trojan [swimming club]. He, someone helped him, he’s living free in America. He never faced anything.”

“It started when I was 10. I’m 48, it’s only this year that I’m free of it. That’s what I mean: 37 years of prison.

“Not only for me but my dad died five years ago, a devastated and heartbroken man.”

“When he was sick in hospital and dying, I knew he was dying, I told him that I loved him, he was the best dad ever and he looked at me and said ‘I don’t know about that, Karen’.

Sixteen years ago, after the court case, my mam told me on the Thursday that she loved me and that she was sorry she didn’t look after me as a little girl. I got a phone call from the guards on the Bank Holiday Monday saying my mam was taken out of the canal by a farmer.

“She was heartbroken. My dad was heartbroken. My family is broken.”

“I spent many years in hospital, I had to be locked up and put away in order to be kept alive because of the many suicide attempts that I had because, as a result, I couldn’t live with what he did to me. It destroys, it takes everything from you when you’re child.

“It’s the same, to me, it’s the same as murder.

“Derry O’Rourke murdered my heart, my soul, my mind, my body as a little girl, he took my childhood away. There are many children living in this country that have been murdered as children from child abuse and didn’t make it to be an adult because they couldn’t live with it.

“I’ve survived the suicide attempts, I’m here, I have my voice, I now am going to speak for every child in this country to ensure that they do not live or end up with a life like mine.

“I also speak for anybody that’s been abused. Some people that have not been able to come forward and speak because they’re still too scared. They think they might not be listened to, might not be believed, I speak for those people too.

“I will not, now that I have my voice back, ever allow anyone to forget about what happened to us.”

Karen Leach

Previously: Two And A Half Years

Ah here.






This afternoon

A fuming Joe Duffy (centre) challenges unruffled Rio Police commissioner [a commissioner is the second-in-command of a civil police division in Brazil] Aloysio Falcão (top) about the filming of the arrest of “distressed 71-year-old” Pat Hickey among other gripes on RTÉ Radio One’s Liveline.

Grab a tay.

Joe Duffy: “Commissioner Aloysio Falcão of the Rio de Janeiro police and one of the lead investigators in this case, good afternoon.”

Aloysio Falcão: “Good afternoon, how are you?”

Duffy: “Good, thank you and I hope you are aware also, are you aware Commissioner, that in Ireland this has been the biggest story in the last 10 days?”

Falcão: “Yeah Yeah we knew.”

Duffy: Why did you decide to film the arrest of Pat Hickey.

Falcão: “Because we knew that Pat Hickey was the guy who [unintelligible]

Duffy: “Okay Commissioner, that’s all fine but in Ireland that’s not a crime, it’s not a crime and it’s not a crime for Pat Hickey to be in communication with Marcus Evans, it’s not a crime why did you decide to film to video to bring along a cameraman to film Pat Hickey in the middle of the night, a 71 year old man obviously in distress why did you decide to  film and release that video?”

Falcão: “In Brazil, ticket touting is a crime, you know.  It’s a serious crime, I had to respect…”

Duffy: Of course it’s a crime in Brazil, It’s not a crime in Ireland, but some people believe it should be a crime in Ireland.  But why did you film the arrest of Pat Hickey?”

Falcão: “I did the arrest because I had to respect the law.”

Duffy: “Is every arrest in Brazil filmed?”

Falcão: “No, but…”

Duffy: “So why did you film this man being arrested?”

Falcão: “I had to do what the judge said on the warrant.  When I arrested him I  sent him to the hospital to check everything out, he spent in the hospital one day…”

Duffy: “I understand and very good, very good, very good, that’s important.  Why did you decide and who filmed this man in distress in his bedroom?”

Falcão: “Because he was in the hotel, in his bedroom, you know we had judge warrant, we had to do it.  And he wasn’t in his room, his wife was in his room, his wife, he was in a different room from his wife.  His wife told the police he went back to Ireland you know.”

Duffy: “Hmm well as I said last week when all of this was happening, there might have been a misunderstanding.  It is a different language.  Are you saying the Judge ordered the arrest of Pat Hickey being filmed.”

Falcão: “Yeah, yeah he did.”

Duffy: “So are you saying the judge said I want to see video and film evidence I want to see the film, the movie of this man being arrested.”

Falcão: “Not the judge’s order, it’s like the media.  We didn’t authorise the media, you know.”

Duffy: “And Commissioner, where does the investigation stand now.  Is there any possibility that Pat Hickey who, as you know is a 71 year old man, you know and you had to call the doctor, that  Hickey could be released on bail and out of that prison.”

Falcão: “Yeah, we have a kind of domiciliary prison where the guy is older than 80 or is in bad health, his lawyers are trying to get this kind of prison for him to be in.”

Duffy: “So can I ask you, Commissioner, on behalf of the Rio de Janeiro police, would you object if the judge said you can release this man from prison and put him under as you say domiciliary containment, would you object Commissioner?”

Falcão: “No.”

Duffy: “So you would be in favour of Pat Hickey being released  from prison once he does not leave Rio, is that correct?”

Falcão: “Sure.  The Brazilian system is not unfair [unintelligible].  I’m going to talk to the judge today.”

Duffy: “So you’re going to talk to the judge today to say you have no objection to Pat Hickey being released.  Have you any objection to him leaving Brazil?”

Falcão: “Yeah. He has to stay in Brazil because he has more questions about more people who are being arrested… he can be in domiciliary jail but it’s the judge’s decision, I can’t decide that, you know.”

Duffy: “But can you – is it within your power to say to the judge we will allow Pat Hickey to hold in a hotel in Rio so long as we have his passport and he cannot leave Brazil, is that your opinion?”

Falcão: “I have the power to talk to the judge but not to release him from jail.”

Duffy: “Yes but once he stays in Brazil.”

Falcão: “Yeah but we don’t have this power you know, it’s the judge’s decision.

Duffy: “But approximately Commissioner when do you hope to hand the file to the judge and say we’ve done all our investigations now you decide when is that a week a month, how long ?”

Falcão: “I can’t tell you, maybe between 1 and 3 months, between 1 and 3 months, I hope so you know.”

Duffy: “So if Mr Hickey –  which he vehemently asserts, as does Mr Mallon, that they were innocent, you’re saying well we will not have a decision on that from the Brazilian system for up to 3 months?”

Falcão: “If they are innocent for sure we have a decision, the Brazilian court, it’s Brazilian law I don’t know how it works in Ireland but we have to make sure that people don’t run away from the country otherwise it’s going to be impossible to inquire them.”

Duffy: “Have you asked Interpol to help?”

Falcão: “Yeah, for sure.  I am in contact with the Interpol the Interpol is going to help the Brazilian police.”

Duffy: “And what country are Interpol going to ask to assist?”

Falcão: “Interpol is based in France.

Duffy: “Yes, I know that, it’s based in Lyon but are you saying to Interpol, can you get information from Ireland?”

Falcão: “I can’t tell you about the information but what I can tell you is that I made contact with Interpol they are helping the Brazilian police.”

Duffy: “Have you had any representations from the Irish government?”

Falcão: “No.  That’s why I also want to get some help from the media because we need some help from the government.  I know Shane Ross had a meeting but he has left.  I also want to know about the government position, what they are doing you know.  Our police can be helped by your government.  We can trade information about this scandal.”

Duffy: “But have you contacted the Irish government via our embassy?”

Falcão: “Not yet.”

Duffy: “But you’re saying you want to speak to Shane Ross and also the Irish Government.  Do you want to speak to the Irish police?”

Falcão: “Yes.  It would be great for the enquiry because more information is much better, it’s more fair for the process, we don’t want to be unfair, I have to know what happened with the government in Ireland and also the government, they will want to know what happened in Brazil.”

Duffy: “Well, Commissioner, a number of politicians in Ireland, some in opposition, some in Government, Minister Simon Coveney, Shane Ross made a reference to it as well, as the leader of the Labour Party said this is not the way we do things in Ireland, I’m quoting a onetime leader of the Labour Party, can you understand that the arrest of this man, the filming of the arrest the immediate removal, okay you took him to a hospital, and his incarceration in prison, to some people in Ireland to a lot of people I think in fairness they don’t think that is very fair.”

Falcão: “I know.  What I can tell you is that the police treated him very well.  We left him in the hospital for one day, he then went to the prison when the doctor examined him met him and said well now he’s okay… I talked to him and his lawyer always, always you know.”

Duffy: “You know this cocktail party, this sting operation where you sent undercover policeman to this cocktail party does that mean you have been on, when did this case open, did it open when the Olympics started or had it started a few years ago, how long have you been on this case?”

Falcão: “We had a lot of investigation at 2014 at the World Cup football, we arrested a director of THG and we know that THG was trying to get credentials for the Games, that’s why we started the investigation. Two years ago.”

Duffy: “You were watching THG before the Olympics.  Before they arrived, were you aware of the arrival of the Irish Olympic Committee, were you suspicious of a connection then.

Falcão: “The Olympic Irish Council was suspected when we found maybe 800 tickets and all those tickets were designated for the Irish Olympic contingent.”

Duffy: “So is it fair to say that before then, Pat Hickey and indeed Kevin Mallon  and indeed other people whom you now want their passports, you were not suspicious of them you were not suspicious of them, you only became suspicious of them when you found those tickets at this cocktail party for instance.  Before they arrived in Rio you were not suspicious of them.  You only became interested in them when you found the tickets at this cocktail party. All the tickets you found were only from the Irish Olympic Council?

Falcão: “ Only Irish.”

Duffy: “Whey did you put Pat Hickey’s boarding card and his accreditation, why did you put them  on your table for those photographs you were at?”

Falcão: “I didn’t put them on my table.”

Duffy: Ah now no hang on hang on the media didn’t have his passport why did you put his passport on the table

Falcão: “We confiscated it.”

Duffy: Oh what you have okay okay, that’s the way in Brazil, okay. And did Pat Hickey have a second passport?”

Falcão: “He had a second passport he gave to the police, yes.”

Duffy: “And is the second passport Irish?”

Falcão: “Yeah, I think so.”

Duffy: “But you can’t have two passports.  And both passports were valid?”

Falcão: “Yeah, yeah, I think because he travels a lot he has a second passport.”

Duffy: “A spare one. But you’re adamant It wasn’t a false passport, it was a spare passport.”

Falcão: “It’s original, it’s a true passport.”

Duffy: “But there’s nothing wrong with that is there?”

Falcão: “Nothing wrong.”

Duffy: “Okay Commissioner thank you for your time.”

Falcão: “Okay thank you I appreciate that also.  Sorry for the question I didn’t answer.  It’s difficult to talk over the phone.  I’m not good at the language.”

Duffy: “But given that you raised the question you didn’t answer, do you regret, are you sorry that you let the cameras in to a 71 year old man in distress?

Falcão: “No, I didn’t authorise that, I didn’t.  It was a problem with the hotel security.”

Duffy: “And also, do you carry a gun?”

Falcão: “ I can tell you, I didn’t like what happened.”

Duffy: “Well then why didn’t you tell the media, you have a gun on you in the photographs, why didn’t you tell the media to get lost.”

Falcão: “The media were there, a lot of television, they saw the police coming in, they entered in the hotel, security people didn’t stop them, when Pat Hickey was arrested we didn’t put anything on the internet, we went out through the basement because of the media, I authorised this, he asked me can I go out through the basement because of the media and I said, sure, yes.”

Duffy: “And you’re saying Pat Hickey requested that he be taken out of the hotel privately?”

Falcão: “Yes, the basement, I authorised that.”

Duffy: “Commissioner Falcão, lead investigator with the Rio police, thank you.

Fair and balanced?

Or police brutality?

Only you can decide.


Earlier: Dan Boyle on Thursday

Previously: RTÉ Is Ireland’s Biggest Problem


Stop doing that.

Karlj writes:

You should put up a select transcript from today’s Liveline [RTÉ Radio 1. The host went off on an angle about this letter (above) in Alive! [Catholic newspaper] and the editor Fr [Brian] Mc Kevitt was able for him.

However each point the priest was made was twisted by Joe Duffy or other callers and it descended into a farce. In particular Joe Duffy questioning Alive! policies and not being able to defend RTÉ licence payers being used to pay 3 producers for a 75 minute show! Fr McKevitt has previous complained to the BAI about Joe Duffy’s treatment….


Listen back here


Tuesday’s Irish Examiner showing the letter sent by the foster father of Grace to the then Minister for Health Michael Noonan in August 1996

Further to yesterday’s post about Grace, Finance Minister Michael Noonan and barrister Garry O’Halloran’s calls for Mr Noonan to resign…

Two sisters, Bridget and Margaret, spoke to Joe Duffy on RTÉ’s Liveline this afternoon.

They did the interview because a third sister, who has limited speech and poor mobility, lived in the same foster care home as Grace for brief respite periods on several occasions – in 1983, 1987 and 1989.

Bridget and Margaret said their sister, who is now in her 40s, was first placed there by her South Eastern Health Board social worker, when she was aged 12.

At the time, she would have had the mental age of a two-year-old.

The sisters both recalled an incident where the foster parents contacted the sisters’ family, abruptly telling them to take the girl home. When the family went to collect her, the girl was left alone at the end of the foster home’s driveway.

Asked if the sister could have communicated with them, if she had been abused, Bridget said:

“I don’t think so, no. Only through crying and being terribly anxious.”

Margaret explained that the gardai had contacted her 18 months ago to say that “there was a minor complaint made, nothing to worry about.”

Margaret then gave them a statement about the incident in which her sister was left at the end of the driveway.

Then, on December 9, 2015, Margaret received a letter from the HSE saying that her sister would be a part of a Resilience Ireland report.

She also received an apology from the HSE and clarification that a Garda investigation was under way.

Margaret said she cannot get any other details and is facing having to make requests for information under the Freedom of Information Act.

She also made an appeal for other families affected – it’s believed 40 children lived in the foster home – to get in touch.

Margaret said: “If [any other families affected] would like to talk or come together as a support group, I mean we should have been told before it came out in the media really. We should have been informed, we should have been warned. Not hear about our family member in the media.”

Bridget also said that they’d like to hear from the social worker who was working with their sister. She said the HSE hasn’t offered any support or contact with any other families involved because of “confidentiality” reasons.

Bridget added: “And they said it could be a long time before we found the truth out really, you know, and that’s, that’s hard as well to take on.”

Towards the end of the interview, Mr Duffy asked the sisters to articulate what they’re hoping for.

Bridget: “Just, well, we just hope that she, she wasn’t in this situation but we don’t know and just for other families out there, who are feeling the same way as us, if they want to get in contact, we can [be] stronger in numbers really and to just sit down and talk about it. If they’ve got any, any information that could help us…”

Joe Duffy: “And Margaret is a part of you saying, ‘actually maybe we shouldn’t dig?’

Margaret: “No.”

Duffy: “Maybe…”

Margaret: “No. Sure we have all the right to dig.”

Duffy: “Oh, I know that, I know that, I know that, absolutely. But is part of you saying, ‘oh god..'”

Margaret: “Oh of course you’re afraid what you’re going to find out…”

Bridget: “And what do you do with the information when you get it?”

Margaret: “Who’s going to be held responsible for all of this? The HSE? Who?”

Mr Duffy didn’t ask the sisters about the Irish Examiner’s report earlier this week which showed that Grace remained in the foster care home for another 13 years after the foster father – now deceased – sent a letter to the then Health Minister Michael Noonan asking that she be allowed to stay.

The letter was sent after the health board ruled that Grace be removed and after the family lost an appeal against that decision.

Mr Duffy also didn’t ask the sisters for their thoughts on barrister Garry O’Halloran’s calls for Mr Noonan to resign and for Commissioner Noirin O’Sullivan to investigate Minister Noonan.

Listen back in full here

Previously: Grace, Noonan and Monageer

90402662 90209506

From top: Health Minister Leo Varadkar at the launch of the Public Health Alcohol Bill this afternoon in the Royal College of Physicians, Dublin;  Some ‘reds’ in Tesco


Minimum alcohol pricing has been established at 10c per gram of alcohol, according to the new bill, which Government say works out at €1 per unit of alcohol.
The minister said the plan is to have the legislation implemented by next summer, but that minimum pricing will come in at same time as in North.
However, Minister Varadkar said he wishes to get his new bill passed by one or other of the Dáil or Seanad before they’re dissolved for elections.
“I’m not particularly concerned about the electoral impact,” he said

*flings empty wine box*

Bottle of wine to cost minimum of €8.63 under new alcohol law (Independent.ie)

Electoral impact?


joe_duffyIf you sell your home at the end of this year YOU are still liable for property tax until November next year.

Yeah whatever

But all is not lost.

Dublin solicitor Caroline Fanning contacted Liveline on RTE R1 this afternoon to tell Joe Duffy about a potential loophole the revenue overlooked.

It may involve throwing a “sickie”.

Caroline Fanning: “I decided to go back and have another look at the Finance Act 2012, which is the relevant legislation – and in that Act, it imposes this tax on people who are deemed to be liable persons, as of the 1st November 2013 – so they are liable for the 2014 tax.
“But if you read on further through that Act, if you look at Section 5.2, Sub Section A2. Sub Section 5.2 says that, ‘A residential property won’t be deemed to be a relevant residential property where the property has been vacated by the liable person for a period less than 12 months.’
“It doesn’t specify if that period is one day, or one hour – it just says less than 12 months – and where a GP is satisfied that that person is unlikely to resume occupation of that property, provided that the property is not occupied by another person.
It’s an interpretation of this section, because it’s very loose, because the rest of the section is in terms of a person who has a long term mental or physical infirmity, which is Section 5.2A Sub Section 1, but there’s no link between Sub Section 1 and Sub Section 2 – so you can read Sub Section 2 in its entirety as a stand-alone sub section.
So, therefore, if somebody sells their property tomorrow and goes to their doctor and says, ‘I’ve sold my property, I’ve given my keys to them, I’ve got the money in my bank account, I’m never going to live there again.’ – and their doctor is satisfied that that is the case, and that the new owner hasn’t immediately resumed occupation of the property – say a couple of days’ grace, moving stuff out, or builders, or whatever, their GP, if they certify that that person won’t be resuming occupation, that person has complied with Section 5.2A, Sub Section 2, that the property is not going to be a relevant residential property and therefore, they are not liable for the tax.”

Joe Duffy: “But they would say there is subsidiarity in Sub Section 5.2A1?”

Caroline Fanning: “The last word in Sub Section 5.2A1 is ‘or’, which means that either one will apply – so I think that under this interpretation of statute for a penal tax, or something penal is happening to the citizen that you’re able to construe that legislation in favour of the citizen – and I think that in this case, it’s definitely a case to be made.”

Joe Duffy:
“And Caroline, you are a solicitor, I see, it’s very very well spotted. Have you ever beaten Revenue in interpretation?”

Caroline Fanning: “I’ve beaten – I’ve won on certain things in going back..{Joe interrupts}.”

Joe Duffy: “You’re saying, your belief is that if you read this in a particular way – in the way it’s written, that anyone who does sell their house in November or December this year – at the moment they are being hit by the property tax – even though they have no access or use of the house, or ownership of the house, they will be hit for property tax for next year. You’re saying that what you should do is, regardless of your mental or physical state, you go to a GP, and you get a letter from a GP saying, ‘I will not be…{Caroline interrupts}

Caroline Fanning: “…they are satisfied that you will be unlikely at any stage to resume occupation of the property’ – which is the wording in the legislation.”

Joe Duffy:
“And you can send that into Revenue and that exempts you?”

Caroline Fanning:
“Well, there’s definitely a case to be made.”

Joe Duffy: “Revenue will say that this was aimed at people going into a nursing home?”

Caroline Fanning: “But there’s no link between the two, you can read them in their entirety.”

Joe Duffy: “So what you’re saying is 5.2A2 should actually be 5.2A and should be part of 5.2A1 and there shouldn’t be a break?”

Caroline Fanning:
“Well, that would be up to the drafters of the legislation, but there’s definitely an interpretation to be made that could apply to those people that are being hit for property tax for next year.”

Joe Duffy: “But the GP will laugh – if you were to say, ‘Will you exempt me from my property tax?”

Caroline Fanning: “That would be up to the GP, I’m sure some would be sympathetic.”

Joe Duffy: “That’s fascinating, well spotted – and best of luck with it Caroline!”

Caroline Fannning: “Thank you.”


Listen Here

(Photocall Ireland)


Earlier this afternoon, Aine Ní Chonaill spoke to Joe Duffy on Liveline.

Ms Ní Chonaill launched the Immigration Control Platform in Ennis, Co. Clare in January, 1998. A few months prior to that, the West Cork teacher stood in the June 1997 general election on an anti-immigration ticket, gaining 293 votes in Cork South-West.

She also ran for Dublin South Central in the 2002 election, above, where she gained 926 votes.

Ms Ní Chonaill featured on show as a follow-up to yesterday’s programme, during which an asylum seeker from Syria, called Ali, talked to Joe about the six years he lived in an accommodation centre in Dublin.

From their conversation:

Áine Ní Chonaill: “Anyone who abuses the asylum system, just as a way to get to the West, and it is massively abused, is an invader of our country.”

Joe Duffy: “An invader?”

Ní Chonaill: “Anyone who barges their way into your country, against your will…”

Duffy: “Now it’s not my, your country. I mean who’s country is it?”

Ní Chonaill: “This is the country of Irish people. Do you think I’m making some exception of myself…”

Duffy: “You don’t own it?”

Ní Chonaill: “I beg your pardon?”

Duffy: “We don’t own the country, when you say ‘your country’.”

Ní Chonaill: “We most certainly do own our country. If you think we don’t own our own country, Joe, you’ve got a very big problem.”

Duffy: “Maybe I have. They’re invaders?”

Ní Chonaill: “Anyone who is an illegal immigrant, ‘i’ ‘double l’, illegal, or I add on an asylum abuser is such a person.”

Duffy: “OK. What is the purpose of this invasion?”

Ní Chonaill: “To get to live in the West.”

Duffy: “Yeah, and do they want to rob anything off you or me or pillage or rape or…”

Ní Chonaill: “Well, excuse me, they want to rob from…”

Duffy: “Because invaders usually come because they want to rob, pillage, rape, overthrow…”

Ní Chonaill: “I beg…If you want to use that kind of language, go right ahead.”

Duffy: “But what do invaders do?”

Ní Chonaill: “Invaders are people who say, effectively, I’m coming into your country whether you like it or not.”

Duffy: “To do what? To do what?”

Ní Chonaill: “To be here.”

Duffy: “In your house?”

Ní Chonaill: “In our country.”

Duffy: “In your house?”

Ní Chonaill: “In our country which is our communal home. Are you trying to say that the country doesn’t have the right to say who comes into the country?”

Duffy: “Of course it does, of course it does.”

Ní Chonaill: “Well that’s all I’m talking about.”

Duffy: “I’m just saying…I’m trying to get a glimpse, cause you’re coming across with phrases like ‘invader’, I’m trying to get a glimpse of what you’re saying, what you actually think of Ali and people like it.”

Ní Chonaill: “Well, obviously, I don’t know any circumstances, what I do know…”

Duffy: “Well, we heard them, we heard them yesterday, directly from his own mouth.”

Ní Chonaill: “No, no, no. Excuse me, Joe. Excuse me Joe. We never on what basis Ali asked for asylum. He came in 2006, when Syria was…”

Duffy: “Because he wanted to get out of Syria.”

Liveline (RTÉ)

Elections Ireland