Last night.
Further to revelations that the Longboat Quay apartment complex (top) in Dublin developed by Bernard McNamara may be evacuated because of failure to meet fire safety standards.
Hubert Fitzpatrick, Director, Housing, Planning & Development at the Construction Federation of Ireland (above left), Robin Mandel, president of The Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland (right) and Longboat Quay apartment owner Seamus Cullen joined Miriam O’Callaghan on last night’s Prime Time on RTÉ One.
Miriam O’Callaghan: “Hubert Fitzpatrick (Construction Federation], I mean it’s a fair point from Shay [a resident] isn’t it that, at the end of the day, he bought his apartment in good faith and it was dangerously built. It’s not fire safe proof.”
Hubert Fitzpatrick: “Certainly apartments all apartments should be built in accordance with the building regulations. The builder has a duty to build in accordance with the building regulations. I suppose between 2000 and 2008, there was about 500,000 new houses and apartments built in this country and many of those apartments were built by quality builders who are still in business today and still building today. This type of incident shouldn’t have happened. I would…”
O’Callaghan: “Can I just come in there? Is that goo enough? I mean we’re standing here, we’ve had Priory Hall, we now have Longboat Quay, how many more Longboat Quays are there?”
Fitzpatrick: “No it’s not good enough. The problem at the time is that we did not have a mandatory requirement for inspection and oversight of buildings as they were being constructed.”
O’Callaghan: “What about basic decency of a builder? That they do not put up a dangerous apartment?”
Fitzpatrick: “And there are many, many quality, reputable builders throughout the country who are still in business today, who’ve protected their reputations and they’ve built quality products. Regretfully there are incidences where shortcuts have been taken. It is not acceptable but what I would say is this is a problem that has been identified under building control regulations. With effect from last year, the construction federation worked positively and proactively with the Department of the Environment to ensure that new regulations were brought about where we have adequate oversight…”
O’Callaghan: “Ok but that’s henceforth, as they say. But what about all the apartment buildings that were built during the boom, like Shay bought, how many of those, do you think, could be facing problems like Longboat Quay?”
Fitzpatrick: “I cannot say how many might be like that but I would say…”
O’Callaghan: “A lot?”
Fitzpatrick: “But what I would say is there are many quality, reputable builders who are in business for generations…”
O’Callaghan: “Yeah but that’s not what I’m asking. We’re not talking about the good builders here though, are we?”
Fitzpatrick: “There are many, many good builders who build quality products. Unfortunately there are some incidences which have arisen, like Longboat Quay, where standards were not adhered to. We must ensure that standards are adhered to by the builders. We must ensure there’s proper oversight to give every homeowner the assurances that the buildings have been built to the required standards and that they’re certified as being fully compliant before the builders are occupied. And that is the requirement under the new building control regulations.”
O’Callaghan: “Yeah well for people who are living in buildings or apartments built before then, they will be very worried tonight. Robin Mandell [Royal Institute of Architecture], I mean your people, your architects obviously, signed off on a lot of these dodgy buildings.”
Robin Mandell: “Well I think, just to be very clear, until last year there was no provision under the Building Control Act for any sign up by anybody. The only certification that came, prior to last year, were fire safety certificates and disability access certificates, which were for design only. So there was no provision under building control, for anyone to sign anything off. And in this…”
O’Callaghan: “But can I just come in there. Surely the basic professional standards of decency of any architect is that they will not go into somewhere, like Longboat Quay, and say ‘this is safe’, ‘this is something I should be working on’.”
Mandell: “Absolutely but I don’t…”
O’Callaghan: “But they obviously did?”
Mandell: “Well I don’t know if they did in this case. I’m not sure if there was an architect involved in the construction of the development. There certainly was in the design but I don’t, I’m not aware there was one or not. I think the really important this is, as Hubert says, and really for Shay, Shay shouldn’t be standing here this evening. If there’s a problem with buildings they should be fixed. And the RIAI has consistently, repeatedly identified the elements that are required for a good system of building control. And they’re very simple. They’re inspection, independent inspection, there’s latent defects insurance which is universal across Europe, there is a register of competent contractors and there is engagement by the building control authority.”
O’Callaghan: “Can I just come back in there? I hear all that and that sounds terrific but the bottom line is that builders and architects ended up, whatever word you want to use, signing off on buildings like Longboat Quay which are dangerous firetraps that Shay, and people like him, bought.”
Mandell: “No, I think you might have…No architect signed off anything under the building control regulations…”
O’Callaghan: “Involved in the building, the design of buildings…”
Mandell: “Again, I don’t know, this one, if there was an architect involved in the construction. In the design, you can be sure that the design was compliant, if designed by an architect.”
O’Callaghan: “Shay, since we’re dealing with builders who may not be able to pay, how much more do you want Nama, and all the other State agencies to pay 100% of what is owing here?”
Shay: “Yes of course I want…the DDDA [Dublin Docklands Development Authority] and Nama to pay the €4million that’s due. And, apparently, the builder [Bernard] McNamara has 18 apartments in those blocks. So if the €4million is paid, those 18 apartments can be refurbished or done up and sold off and Nama will get their money back with those 18 apartments that McNamara apparently owns in those blocks there.”
O’Callaghan: “From your point of view, representing these builders, what do you think should happen in relation to Shay’s case in Longboat Quay? Who should pick up the full tab?”
Fitzpatrick: “I don’t know the particular detail of this particular development. But we should look at the insurances that backed up this development. You know, what type of cover did the premiere guarantee insurance provide Seamus… Did it provide for proper fire-stopping in the units? I do know that current insurance policies in place do provide for adequate fire stopping and that would provide some comfort to other users. But what I would say, from an industry perspective, we fully support proper oversight of all buildings as they are being constructed. We want to ensure that the builders’ work is checked, to ensure the builder carries out his work effectively and that no building is occupied until such a time that the building is certified as being fully compliant with the regulations.”
O’Callaghan: “What help is that to Shay tonight?”
Fitzpatrick: “It is a very difficult situation for Shay and I fully sympathise with Shay and the other residents in Longboat Quay but I suggest one should look behind the insurance policies that may have supported that building. Is there some cover available from premiere guarantee that might provide, bridge the gap between the cost of what’s required to repair it which would move the process forward satisfactorily.”
O’Callaghan: “And you slightly dodged my question, my earlier question was: how many other Priory Halls and Longboat Quays do you think there are?”
Fitzpatrick: “I don’t know Miriam.”
O’Callaghan: “Would you say there are a fair few?”
Fitzpatrick: “I don’t know MIriam. What I would say is there are many quality professional builders out there, they’ve been there for generations and they’ve respected their reputation and they’re working proactively at the moment in the industry. And they will not cut short, corners in order to make a quick buck on some development like this.”
Watch back here
Previously: Munificence Doesn’t Live Here Anymore