That’d Be The Brother




Angela Kerins: “I have no allowances, I have no hidden, hidden monies anywhere, there’s no…”

Mary Lou McDonald: “What would your expenses run to on average?

Kerins: “I don’t have that with me.”

McDonald: “You don’t have that information with you? It’s just I was alarmed to hear, now I’m sure, I’m confident you’ll tell me that this is not the case but that you were a regular commuter by helicopter to different locations.”

Kerins: “Any time I’ve ever been in one, it hasn’t been, it hasn’t been mine and it’s cost me nothing.”

McDonald: “Ok, well that could make a whole other interesting conversation. Let’s then turn to your commercial because you’ve laid emphasis on this. And can I ask you about one specific commercial venture and you might shed some light on it. Complete Eco Solutions. Rehab had a relationship with this organisation. I checked today. It’s currently described as being involved in the wholesale electrical household appliances and radio and television goods. It is, it has two named directors: Mr Frank Flannery, who we referred to earlier and Mr Joseph McCarthy. I understand that both gentlemen are known to you. Can you identify, obviously Frank Flannery we know…and your bother is Joseph McCarthy. Can you just take us through, Ms Kerins, the relationship between Rehab and Complete Eco Solutions? I understand it relates to the coffin business.”

Kerins: “There was no relationship between those two organisations. A number of years ago, the Rehab Group wanted to get into this business and the..and in piloting and checking to see is that what it wanted to do, they were helped by this organisation, there was no financial benefit to anybody. The organ…that company, who had done some trading in China, agreed to help them. It was a pilot thing and there was no further involvement, it didn’t progress.”

McDonald: “So when did, it what year did Rehab decide to try out this coffin-making enterprise?”

Kerins: “I really, I just can’t remember that. I can’t recall it. It was, it was some years ago.”

McDonald: “Some years ago?”

Kerins: “Deputy I, I actually don’t remember, I’ll have to come back to you with it if you want to know. But I…it must have been…oh dear…would it be four years ago may? I, I…”

McDonald: “Perhaps in the course of this meeting one of your colleagues could check that, back at HQ, I’m sure that’s a matter that could be established quite easily. Complete Eco Solutions set up shop in 2009 so the interesting thing, as I understood the turn of events, is that Rehab initially imported directly materials for the construction of these coffins, directly from China. And that afterwards this Complete Eco Solutions became an intermediary, if you like, like a third party. So in other words, rather than the raw materials coming directly to Rehab that this entity was in the middle, as an agent, I suppose is the…you refute that?”

Kerins: “Oh yeah, the, as I say, I’m not directly involved in this myself, just to make that clear. But this was an initial pilot of a venture and they were helping them with that initial look at it. There was nothing, there was no business prior to that in relation to this activity to the best of my knowledge.”

McDonald: “Are you saying that at no stage and that there exists nowhere, a paper trail to confirm that materials from China came to Rehab via this agent or third party, is that what you’re saying?”

Kerins: “No, no, I’ve misunderstood you. I thought you said that it was coming directly prior to that and then this agen-..this company would…”

McDonald: “That is what I was saying.”

Kerins: “To the best of my knowledge, this, as I say this is not a part of why we’re here today but I’m happy to clarify in so far as I can that these folks were helping the organisation to develop that business but the only involvement was in that pilot stage, that’s to the best of my knowledge, deputy.”

McDonald: “And do you have a means of confirming that, Ms Kerins.”

Kerins: “I will yeah.”

McDonald: “Would it be too ambitious to suggest that you could confirm that also in the course of that meeting.”

Kerins: “Yeah, well let me…”

McDonald: “I’m sure one of your colleagues could step out and text somebody at head office.”

Kerins: “Let’s try to do that.”

McDonald: “Are you uncomfortable with the notion of family members, people close to you, having a commercial relationship with Rehab – given your position, does that put you….?”

Kerins: “I, in relation to this, I would always be uncomfortable…but people and families and people help out, and try to help out the Rehab Group across all of our staff and all of the families.”

McDonald: “I’m referring specifically to a commercial and transactional relationship, not a voluntary effort.”

Kerins: “Yes, to a degree and despite what one might hear, to the degree that I absented myself from any of this decision making and our audit committee and our board had to take oversight of that. It was a short-term activity so…”

McDonald: “How long did it go on for?”

Kerins: “Deputy McDonald, I don’t have any details of that activity with me so we’ll come back to you on it.”

McDonald: “Yeah. And tell me was there any, were any other family members of yours involved in this enterprise, or any other commerical venture?”

Kerins: “My husband was a director of it. But once this activity started, he stood down.”

McDonald: “Ok. And you have no further detail than that?”

Kerins: “No, and there has been no further dealings other than that one.”

McDonald: “So when did it cease? The pilot.”

Kerins: “Again, like I said, we’ll come back to you but it was probably about 2009/2010 but let me come back to you on that, I don’t have…”

McDonald: “But they only became operational in 2009, so, and by the way, are still operational to this day.”