A Bold New Vision




Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Brendan Howlin launching new Civil Service reforms this morning at government buildings, Dublin.

Under the new proposals staff who are under performing will be retrained and moved to another department/Brussels  severely dealt with.

Oh it’s on.

(probably not).

Reforms to make it easier to fire civil servants (Irish Times)

(Sam Boal/Photocall Ireland)

38 thoughts on “A Bold New Vision

  1. Tom Stewart

    Fantastic news. Currently, a civil servant would have to go on a shooting spree to be fired. Even if this move isn’t definitive, it’s a step in the right direction.

      1. Tom Stewart

        Oh really? An underperforming public sector worker will be given a series of warnings and eventually let go if performance doesn’t improve – just like in the private sector? (Assuming performance is even measured/reviewed regularly).

        You seem to know about it: convince me.

        1. anomanomanom

          Lets me put it this way, i work with these absolute waste of space employees, there is probably a policy to deal with them, but from 7 years experience nothing is ever done. It is basically impossible to be sacked. Unless you’ve experienced it you wouldn’t know.

    1. anomanomanom

      Your talking shit. Killing people might get you promoted, for saving money on wages. Im not civil service but similar and i hope to god they really bring in change. Iv seen in my time in my job loads of people who would have been sacked years ago in the private sector.

    2. Cool_Hand_Lucan

      Just how bad is the inefficiency in the CS and what are the current proceedures for dealing with incompetent staff?
      I’m not having a go nor disagreeing with what you said, I’m just wondering what’s the empirical data on the CS as opposed to anecdotes.

    3. Frilly Keane, Anyone?

      A shooting Spree = mental breakdown = stress = work related = sick cert = sick certs= long term sick = early retirement & disability pension & etcs

      And probably some compo too as it’s a work related whatever

  2. Kevin Keegan

    I am reliably informed by a low to mid ranking civil servant (welfare,Dublin) that there are some seriously incapable people currently employed by the civil service.To call them idiots would be complimentary.

      1. Tom Stewart

        Oh Mani… Is there nothing left for us to teach you in this world? Or have you truly seen it all?

        (I love you really Mani)

        1. Mani

          One of these day’s Clampers ma will leave the lights on and then I will truly have seen everything.

          1. Mike

            Well he’s definitely the thing I’d most closely follow in the old bs comment section. And that is quite the coup.

  3. Bacchus

    I’m not going to get into a debate with the confident and uninformed here so this is my only post on the matter…
    I worked in the Civil Service for many many years and yeah there were some incompetent people but incompetent people were also sacked. They were given warnings (as is normal anywhere) and usually they upped their game and went on to be very productive.
    I worked with private sector consultants too and invariably had to clear up their mess when they left, presumably they went on to tell tales to their friends and colleagues of how the Civil Service is full of dossers. But the public likes to hear consultants are being used in the public sector so they get hired.
    Now that I’m in the private sector and self employed I wish I could find staff as diligent and loyal as I had in the Civil Service but in the private sector the loyalty is to the highest payer.

    It’s an open competition…. if you think it’s such a great life then apply and I’m sure you’ll waltz through the recruitment procedures and never have a complaint again.

    1. Mani

      Sorry. Have also worked in both sectors. Civil service is a crazy magnet. It is the VIP room of cat people and hoarders.

    2. anomanomanom

      If any of this is true, then im glad that civil servants are doing their job, but i know its not true….. The best example i can give, its unbelievable but i promise true, to be more efficient with time we came up with a new roster. Staff would start later and then staying back for 30mins later. Staff agreed on the basis it at to be unanimous vote. One person openly stood up and said “im saying no, im not missing Home and away for anybody”. I promise you that happened.

  4. phil

    I know people in the Civil Service, I have no idea how they perform, but I do remember them describing the educational requirments to do the civil service exam, and the type of exam that was. The exam sounded quite tough considering the jobs they would end up doing.

    So its unfair to call Civil Servants idiots , idiots could not pass the exam. So to my mind there is something else going on …. And if I was to take a swing at pointing the finger at a potential big issue in the CS, its the ‘Job for Life’ thing. There may be a % that hate the job but are stuck because dumping that defined Benifit pension would just be mad, in their minds …

    1. Tom Stewart

      The reality that it is a “Job For Life” has to go. Was totally fair play 60 years ago when you’d be unemployable if you left, but nowadays that has changed. Nowadays there’s nothing to stop them transferring to the private sector if that what suits them.

      Their ridiculous perks (e.g. time off to cash cheques long after they stopped being paid by cheque) and generally enormously cushty conditions need to be brought in line with the private sector to reflect this.

      1. scottser

        they haven’t had the ‘cheque-cashing’ thing in a few years now.
        anyway, some folks value stability, and public sector is great if you’re raising a family. others are quite happy to go for the big money private sector thing and go work for inept managers obsessed with ass-covering and colleagues who’d hang their mas for a sniff at promotion.

        tom, that the public sector is the front line that deals with your rights under the law. yes it’s wasteful and the oversight is sometimes a bit of an overkill. but i’d rather my rights were dealt with and protected by a well paid and motivated civil service than a contracted, for profit agency any day of the week. look at the criticism Atos has received in the UK, for example.

        1. Tom Stewart

          I wouldn’t suggest even for a moment that the CS be outsourced to the private sector.

          They may not have had the cheque-cashing thing for a while, if you say so. But they had it for fupping ages after they stopped being paid by cheque.

          1. scottser

            dude, when i started working in the public service the working week was 32 hours long! they even got a half-day to go fukn christmas shopping! the unions were a stitch up too – we had a painter in our office that took 3 weeks to a decent sized office. 2 lads with one brush, one holding the ladder. they weren’t allowed to use a roller! but all messing aside, the frontline staff shortages and PPP contracts aren’t making anyone work harder, quite the opposite in fact.

  5. Frilly Keane, Anyone?

    An Assistant Principal Grade in DoJ, who has had the luxury of 38 months paid maternity in the last years, not including annual leave, only yesterday told me…

    ” there are some days its quarter to six before I get out”
    ( works her flexi into a 4 day week and starts after 10 )

  6. Columbo's Missus

    A lot of bull is being written here about civil service but a lot of truth too. You just have to separate fact from fiction. I’ve 6.5 years experience in private sector and now 8 years in public sector, both have their fair share of wasters but also hard working people. I do agree that it seems to be much more difficult to get rid of the non performing staff in public sector. I’ve also found the staff in public sector a lot more involved in the union than in my job in private sector.
    There is a pay issue. I recall when manning a recruitment stand for public sector, we were offering €20k for IT specialists and private sector were offering a minimum of twice that.
    Just to also state, there’s no half day for “Christmas shopping”, the working week is 37.5 hours (I regularly do more…on average 42 hours but overtime is unpaid). In the private sector I got bonuses, a paid Christmas party etc but look I’m not complaining. I like my job, I love my job but we are ridiculously understaffed and that is demoralising.

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