A Rush And A Push

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Screen shots from a video taken during Taoiseach Enda Kenny’s visit to Santry Sports Club in Northwood, Santry on Wednesday

GRA President Dermot O’Brien spoke to Jonathan Healy on Newstalk Lunchtime about the Irish Water protests.

During the interview, Mr O’Brien said it was reasonable to shove a woman out of the way and confirmed that gardaí are filming the protesters.

Jonathan Healy: “The one point I have to put to you is that, you know, we all know that a lot of people at these events have phones. There was one video that I saw the other day which appeared to show a woman being shoved by a guard and ending up on the footpath. And, you know, that kind of thing doesn’t help your cause.”

Dermot O’Brien: “No, look, people have phones, people record what’s going on. My members are used to phones and being recorded on a daily basis but you’ve to remember sometimes, incidents, they don’t get out of control, they’re within control of An Garda Síochána but they have to take control of the situation. Sometimes force has to be used. And people have to realise that. It’s an element of our job. It’s not a job that we, it’s not an element we like to have to do but it’s…

Healy: “Dermot I have to say this, it’s reasonable force rather than…”

O’Brien: “It is, totally Jonathan, reasonable force is correct.”

Healy: “And shoving some woman who was, you know, in a video I saw, she was not an elderly woman but a woman who would be in her later years being shoved, that didn’t seem…that didn’t…is that reasonable?”

O’Brien: “Well, to me, it is reasonable. The guard had to do his job, he had to remove the lady from in front of the…if it’s the same video that I think you have seen, he had to remove the lady and that was it. He has a job to do. I mean you have to..look, if this person wants to have protests, there’s ways and means of going about the protest and protests are taking all, going on all around the country. Protests can be organised in a reasonable fashion.”

Healy: “Ok. And just to finish up, do guards record protesters. There was some evidence recently that they have new little personal cameras that are on them and is that something you’re in favour of?”

O’Brien: “It’s…whether I’m in favour or not, I won’t comment. But what I’ll say is yes they are being utilised at the moment.”

Listen back here

Earlier: We’re All Dissidents Now

Previously: Yes, They Cam

Thanks Nadine

160 thoughts on “A Rush And A Push

    1. Kill The Poor

      Shame on the women , right ?

      Guards are just protecting the Taoiseach. No matter how much of a muppet he is everyone would have been shouting holy hell if they’d let one of these (sinn feiners) women through and slap the stupid grin off his face.

      holy hell !

      1. ABM's Bloodied Underwear

        And how would she have done that when he was sitting in a car?
        Seeing as she was holding a sign, it would be fair to say the worst she’d have done is wave it at the car or put it against the window.

        The actions of the Garda was over the top here.

      2. Eulich McGee

        Rubbish of the highest order, they were not using reasonable force. If the woman had been posing a threat to the man, ( Who was still safely tucked up still in his armoured vehicle at this point), then a young fit well trained guard should have been able to easily restrain a middle aged lady without knocking her to the ground.

        what we see is complete overkill as usual from badly trained officers who are a law unto themselves.

        1. ReproBertie

          Armoured vehicle?

          The woman was not being restrained, she was being removed and quickly so as to free the garda to remove the next protestor.

      3. munkifisht

        Exactly. If you’d done this to Barack you’d be dead so count yourself lucky you only got pushed back.

  1. Tony the Toy Gur

    The gardaí are just doing their jobs. What else would we expect? To gently usher the protestors out of the way with silk feather down filled persuasion cushions?

    1. Mister Mister

      So ?

      Are you allowed to blockade now on the basis of your sex and build, any only those that can be moved are those of equal size, or greather than, the movee ?

      Are laws now to be based on sex and size ? She was asked to move, several times. Refused, and moved by force. What do you want the gardai to do instead, ah sure it’s ok love, you can stay there so.

      The whole argument of ah sure der only little wimmin is bullshit.

      1. ahjayzis

        I base a lot of my decisions around sex and size. If the government are starting to make those decisions for me…. I’m a SOVEREIGN PERSON WITH NO TREATY WITH YEEE!!!

  2. Jock

    Who here actually believes that a person should be able to block the taoiseachs car during a highly charged protest without getting manhandled?

      1. Mikeyfex

        I thought he was a sarcastically defending the police there, Mister. As in it wouldn’t take much to knock them so they didn’t do much wrong, almost couldn’t help knocking them. I think you got the wrong end of the shtick.

        1. Mister Mister

          Don’t call me mister, bud !

          It’s Friday evening, I’m tetchy. So damn you Randy and may you get a garda issue batton to the head if you made me look a fool.

          1. Mikeyfex

            Oh ya I forgot. That Friday evening tetchiness that gets to everyone. :-)

            Ya i’ve no clue what he meant now anymore. I’m moving on.

          2. Alfred E. Neumann

            The furrowed brows of Broadsheet, poring over a fat joke like an unusually thorny epigram in the library of Alexandria.

    1. f

      Why not? Is he the king now?

      There’s just something so bonkers about the assumptions underlying that statement.

      1. Menace

        No, ireland has no king.

        However, he is our head of state. Which in most countries trumps the king. What’s the point you’re making here?

  3. Disasta

    But wait, according to RealCorkLanger and jungleman

    RealCorkLanger
    November 7, 2014 at 10:58 am
    Ya, it shows a load of people roaring at Gardaí claiming they have been punched and assaulted in a variety of ways – and claiming they have evidence on video.

    Yet, the uploaded videos only ever show them roaring at Gardaí calling them every name under the sun. (if there are other videos supporting their allegations, fair enough, then dont appear to be doing the rounds though)

    And there are no reports anywhere(that I have seen) of complaints being made to any authority.

    Why, its almost like they are just trying to provoke a reaction from the Gardaí……

    Disasta
    November 7, 2014 at 11:08 am
    No, no it’s not like that at all.

    Who’s paying you to talk trash?

    Reply ↓

    jungleman
    November 7, 2014 at 11:18 am
    It actually is like that.

  4. singingdetective

    This is the leader of our country. No matter what you think of him if you present any sort of threat (and standing in front of his car preventing it to move is a threat) then you will be manhandled out of the way. Not nice, but them’s the breaks.

    1. scottser

      manhandled out of the way is one thing, it looked to me like she was just unceremoniously feckd onto the ground.

      1. obriendj

        If it was the car of another world leader, she would be lucky to get away with shove to the ground.
        imagine if Obama was in the car or even Putin. I know Kenny is not in the same league but he is still the head of state.

        Also if you want to protest fine, but if you want to act like a fool, then you should expect some consequences.

        1. scottser

          ..and if you want to be hauled in front of a garda tribunal for unnecessary use of force then keep shoving protestors to the ground.

          1. ReproBertie

            Did you not read the transcript?

            “Sometimes force has to be used. And people have to realise that.”

            “Well, to me, it is reasonable. The guard had to do his job, he had to remove the lady”

            Nothing for the guard to worry about there.

          2. scottser

            i did read it, and i’d disagree with what he deems ‘reasonable’. exactly what threat was she? what other efforts were made to remove her as a threat before she was forced to the ground? was any attempt made to reduce or minimise the risk of injury to the protester? it’ll be interesting to see what GSOC make of the footage.

            sadly repro you may be right in that there’s many layers of authority, obfuscation and @rseholery within the gardai that will cover up for ‘over enthusiastic’ handling of these situations.

          3. ReproBertie

            Be realistic. The garda’s priority was to get the protestors out of the way and allow the taoiseach’s car pass. Within that remit the force used was entirely reasonable. Had he tried to talk her out of the way he would have been allowing time for more protestors to block the car and creating a bigger, tougher task for himself.

            Had he used his baton or pepper spray it would have been unreasonable but this is nothing.

          4. scottser

            sorry repro, i’m with abm’sbu and i call bullsh1t too. you can achieve the goal of clearing the way for the car in a co-ordinated and careful manner without causing injury. what i’ve seen so far looks like individual gardai making a bad situation worse by being overly aggressive. whether they were acting on instruction or off their own bat remains to be seen.

        2. Anne

          But Obama and Putin aren’t fupping eegits.
          Well maybe Putin, but Enda is a proper eegit.
          She wasn’t a threat anyway. Cop on.

          I’m amazed the guard who pushed the woman didn’t have the sh*t kicked out of him to be honest.
          You hear a man saying “don’t do that to her, you fupping ape”. If that were her son, it’d be a very restrained response, in my opinion.
          Not condoning that, but that’s how it escalates.

          She could have been moved aside in a more restraint way. Not flung to the ground.

      2. Alfred E. Neumann

        Is there a ceremony for this? I’d like a junior Garda to swing a censer made of a Dutch Gold can studded with Bensons, and purify the designated landing area with a sprinkling of jelly tots. Sure I’d throw myself to the ground for that.

    2. thefatlad

      +1

      There’s other countries out there where you’d get more than shoved.

      You don’t want to be agro’d, don’t get agro!

      1. f

        ‘If this was Obama/Putin/in another country’ – yes, America, Russia, and the kinds of countries where you get the sh!t kicked out of you for daring to put your fetid peasant face near that of a dear leader are the kinds of places and regimes we would do damn well to take lessons from.

      1. ahjayzis

        Country, not Island, country. The northeast six counties are another country within another State based on the other Island ;)

  5. bawbag

    The protesters are heros. The cops ARE only doing their jobs, but that job is Professional Prick for Hire.

  6. Walter Ego

    Dermot O’Brien said also that 3 police officers are assaulted everyday at these protests. Bullsh*t, How come no one has been charged with assault? bonus

        1. jungleman

          Why would I bother saying any more? BS is being taken over by deluded idiots like yourself and its ruining it for the rest of us. Go back to the journal like a good lad.

        2. Rep

          Every video seems to show many protesters claiming they have been assaulted. What is happening with those assaults?

  7. Shane

    I do wonder what would have happened if this incident occurred in any other country, I inclined to think they got off lightly… I’m all for protests but talk about being counter productive.

    1. Walter Ego

      Yes because it was these people that brought this country into recession. Get a grip. I’ll give you a hint who did….. They wear suits.

    2. Anne

      The state of these women. Complete leeches on the state.

      To show that contempt for elderly women, shows what a knacker you are.
      No class whatsoever.

      What is it with wannabes who want to disassociate themselves from those they consider knackers, so much?
      As if by the continual denigration, they’ll somehow manage to elevate themselves as being better than them.

      It reeks of desperation, and they probably one pay check away from being sh*t outta luck themselves.

      “Should of” paid more attention in school Jock.
      You uneducated fool.

  8. CousinJack

    Guards will get respect when they behave respectfully and stop acting as a private security force for DO’B and multinationals
    It is clear the Gardai aren’t fit for purpose, time to have NI levels of oversight
    What about the dark elements in the Gardai, the Mayo rape jokers, Donegal, Ian Bailey, etc, etc

    1. jungleman

      The Mayo rape jokers were the dark elements of the Gardai? Spare me. They cracked a distasteful joke is all and did so when they thought they were in a private space. You make it sound like there was something sinister behind it when there clearly was not.

      1. scottser

        that’s all? gardai are expected to maintain the highest levels of professionalism while on duty. you’d be livid if you received the same sh1te from any service provider, public or private. but, i guess if you don’t give a monkeys about your own rights i don’t expect you to care about anyone else’s.

      2. ABM's Bloodied Underwear

        A force of 12 or 13 thousand and only whiste-blowers while every other one of them closed ranks and the whistle blowers themselves where vilified and even hinted that their incompetence (later proven untrue) was responsible for releasing someone who then went onto kill.

        When their actions are as above and the private jokes to themselves are about raping people, then it is a lot more serious than just a joke. Plenty of instances of gardai covering up for other gardai and when you know that will happen, how far will you go with something you think you can get away with, especially when having a good oul laugh about it earlier on?

        1. ABM's Bloodied Underwear

          *and only 2 whistleblowers….

          Give us an edit button as well as a follow button!

        2. jungleman

          I regularly criticise the Gardai, often on BS. But it is totally unfair to expect that Gardai cannot even crack a harmless joke amongst friends. The joke was of course distasteful and careless given the fact they had the camera and were on the job, but I have no doubt there was no malice behind it. Black humour is a reality of life and those that use it are usually decent people.

          1. Don Pidgeoni

            Topbants (cause its aint a joke) about rape while working as a guard is completely unprofessional at the very least. It is completely fair to expect the very people you would be reporting such an assault to not to joke about, esp not when working. Given how few rapes are even reported, its no wonder people were shocked.

          2. ABM's Bloodied Underwear

            “I have no doubt there was no malice behind it”.

            Based on absolutely nothing.

          3. Bobby

            @Don Pidgeoni Considering the protestors were screaming that the gardaí were raping them, it’s a) not surprising that the gardaí would want to joke about it instead of getting freaked out about it, and b) also a good reason as to why rape is not taken seriously.

            Of all the things the gardaí have done, that one little joke shouldn’t even be enough to raise an eyebrow. There’s actual real crimes being committed by gardaí that should be focused on.

          4. f

            A couple of years ago the gardaí snipped the lock on my bike, which was parked in a bike rack in town, and removed it as part of the Queenie security operations. When I called them they told me I could pick it up in Store St., so off I hoofed, at around midnight on a Sunday, to rescue it. I spoke to a nice fella at the desk, who led me through the back office, where five or six gardaí were sat at their computers. As I walked through, one of them wolf-whistled at me. I was a woman, alone, in a Garda station, at midnight on a Sunday, with a bunch of male gardaí, and one of them thought this was the perfect time to wolf-whistle, then snigger about it. Mostly, I felt outrage, but lucky me, I hadn’t recently been the victim of, say, a sexual assault. Later, I realised that it had creeped the livin crap out of me, and changed my attitude to the gardaí in a fairly profound way (fairly or unfairly). Point is: as a garda on duty, you don’t get to engage in ‘top bants’ like making rape jokes, or wolf-whistling at women alone late at night; in the same way it’s not okay for a child protection officer to make ‘Lol, paedophiles’ jokes in front of clients. You have a job, you don’t know the lives of those you’re charged to protect, so if you must be an ass, at least keep your bullsh!t for when you’re off duty.

          5. cluster

            To be fair the joke was based on the fact that one of the protestors shouted ‘Rape’ at them as they arrested her. They are laughing at her silly attention-seeking so it wasn’t even that distasteful a joke.

            A much bigger problem with the Guards is the apparent tribalism and unwillingness to allow any of their colleagues to faces censure even when it is deserved.

            That being said, the idea that individual Guards will only deserve respect when they unilaterally decide to ignore the courts and the democratically-elected govt on CousinJack’s say so is facile. Having watched some of the protestors’ videos, I don’t envy the Guards the job of dealing with the more aggressive protestors.

          6. Don Pidgeoni

            @f – gross, that’s just gross

            @cluster – it’s more than distasteful. Interesting how this is interpreted differently by men and women – joke vs something skeezy as hell. Maybe they need a tighter vetting system to stop dickheads getting through

          7. cluster

            @DonP – if he had made the joke to her, then I would agree. However, they didn’t, they just (stupidly) forgot to check whether the camera was on.

            Having someone scream rape or rapist a you (a charge which any man would sensitive about) while you go about your daily work is upsetting and uncomfortable in and of itself. They have a right to joke about it – firstly as a release of tension and secondly as a way of subtly making clear to each other how distasteful that is and how ridiculous the idea that they would something like that is.

      3. Skeptical O'Hare

        +1
        And as far as I know there hasn’t been a judgement in Ian Bailey’s case against the Gardai yet. And while Bailey’s version of events sound pretty damning, it is only Bailey’s side of the story we have heard thus far.

          1. Skeptical O'Hare

            Eh. Again this is a person claiming something. And again, as far as I know, no judgement has been made against the Gardai regarding this alleged incident. Maybe there was Garda corruption, but I’m happy to wait for a judicial decision before I start screaming about it.

          2. cluster

            True Skeptical but it does seem fairly clear that:
            1) they made a hames of the original crime scene and investigation
            2) that they decided Bailey was their man early on and made this very obvious to journos etc.
            3) they did almost everything they could to push the case against Baley even though they didn’t have enough evidence. Whether this strayed into some of the corruption claimed we’ll see.

            Even the best interpretation of events doesn’t portray the West Cork Guards in a positive light

          3. Skeptical O'Hare

            Yeah Cluster. My point is that we should wait for due process before we start using claims and allegations as facts to get hysterical about.
            In terms of speculating I agree with you on points one and three. And I think the Gardai will be probably be brought to book for some kind of mal practice in this case. With regard to your second point, and again I’m just going on the small bit I know about this case, I think you’ll find that the chief suspect appeared on the RTE news, not long after the killing, and openly identified himself as being the chief suspect in the Sophie Toscan Du Plantier murder.

          4. Anne

            and again I’m just going on the small bit I know about this case

            Due process, before getting hysterical. Yeah yeah.

            You haven’t a bull’s notion of what you’re talking about, so how about zipping it?
            Let due process do the thinking for you.

    2. Mister Mister

      Stop talking bollocks jack.

      Are you saying it’s ok for me to go and hold up the nearest Topaz petrol station, maybe tell the young girl working there that I know where she lives in order to intimidate her, without any fear of recourse from the gardai ?

      After all, it’s a private company, and that girl decided to work there all by herself, so why should she be offered the protection of the state ?

  9. Brain

    A shove is good enough for them. If they tried that in the states they would have their heads blown off.

      1. Ronan

        It is, however, the country in the world where you’re most likely to get a measured response from the police. Even within the EU there would be tear gas used in this situation in most countries. And we’re complaining about shoving.

        As to the idiots who obstructed. Well done. Just look at the media for the last couple of days, and what you’ve done. You’ve offered them the chance to talk of dissidents and sinister elements – precisely the type of thing that scares people from free association in this country. Lots of people won’t protest where there’s a risk of trouble. Future protests will now have “Gardai fear trouble” headlines all over them. You’ve given them precisely the tool they need to lower your numbers

        For the record, I’m pro water charges, but I admire the protest greatly, even if I feel the anger is mistimed and misdirected. It’s great to see political movement on any issue in this country, don’t be disturbed by rogue elements. Stand up and keep protesting – even if I don’t agree with you it’s an exciting political development in this country.

        1. f

          ‘Even within the EU there would be tear gas used in this situation in most countries. And we’re complaining about shoving.’

          Stop complaining about shoving! Wait until there’s teargas to complain about! That’s called progress, you recalcitrant fools!

    1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

      @Brain
      Did you see the bloke who broke into the Whitehouse grounds, recently? That is far more serious than what this woman was doing. Stop making poor comparisons with other countries.

    1. ReproBertie

      If you stopped a garda walking down the street, forced them to empty their pockets, patted them down, handcuffed them and put them in a van you’d probably get in trouble. Double standards.

          1. Lilly

            They grew up watching American TV, they love their donuts. Watch the trail of crumbs from the donut stand on O’Connell Sreet to Pearse Street.

    2. Alfred E. Neumann

      The driver scratched his balls repeatedly, but when I scratched his balls he kicked me off the bus.

      Double standards.

  10. Patrick D

    Leo V. are these ladies part of the “sinister fringe” you speak of? The Gardai were straight out this morning with accusations of 3 assualts per day on their members. I doubt if a Garda was “assaulted” that they would not arrest the person on the spot and bundle them into a van. FG/LAB these photos are the nails in your coffin as political parties. This government does not have a mandate to man handle women in this manner and I for one will be attending the next march to demonstrate against the manner this goverment now treats it’s “customers”

    1. Ronan

      the 3 assaults per day is across all their work, not just their assistance at the site of meter installations.

      If the gardai break up a fight in town there’s probably 10 ‘assaults’ right there from stray elbows and fists. 1000 a year isn’t very far fetched.

  11. Original Cynic

    It would be good to see this level of protective force also used to clean up O’Connell Street of drug dealers, muggers and bicycle thieves.

    1. cluster

      And put them where? The problem around O’Connell Street is primarily a societal problem (refusal to deal sensibly with drug addicts etc.) rather than a policing problem.

    1. ReproBertie

      That’s something to be happy about. I seem to remember how people were annoyed about the new cars every year under FF.

  12. Kieran NYC

    – “Does anyone know where that Irish Prime Minister is? He’s late for this EU meeting.”

    – “Apparently people are sitting in front of his car and it can’t move. Police are asking them very politely to move, but they’re not having it.”

    – “Oh ok so. That’s fair enough.”

    Boll1x. When you’re asked to move away from the leader of the country’s car, you move or get moved.

    1. realPolithicks

      Ah Kieran, your gas. Are you an official representative of FG in NYC or are you just a volunteer?

      1. cluster

        Why don’t you engage with what someone says rather than continually accusing anyone with a different opinion of being a shill? Even if the commenter was a paid shill (usually unlikely), so what? Explain why they’re wrong.

        1. Kieran NYC

          Love me, kill me, kiss me, shill me!

          (We tend to go a bit feral around here when you’re not around to make sense)

    2. scottser

      there’s a difference in being moved and being thrown to the ground. it’s subtle i know, but try a bit harder – it’s totally worth it.

    3. Anne

      *More words of wisdom from Kieran in New York City.
      Kieran, go watch the clip again.

      She’s not even obstructing his chariot.
      She’s dragged in front of it, and thrown to the grown.. only then is she obstructing it.

      *P.S. no flirting intended. :)
      Women sometimes have to interact with you. It’s exciting stuff I know. Deep breaths.

      1. Kieran NYC

        Ah now. You didn’t even call me retarded. :( Hope you’re feeling better by Monday!

        Have a great weekend!

    4. Sam

      We have a thing here called laws. If someone is breaking the law, there’s a bunch of people called Gardai who are empowered under certain laws to deal with it in certain ways.
      The public order act entitles them to instruct people to move, if they are obstructing traffic, and if they don’t move, the Gardai can arrest them.
      You might find this odd, but the law doesn’t entitle the Garda to simply skip the caution and arrest, and just throw people around and then feck off.
      One might think otherwise from seeing how they carried on up in a certain corner of Mayo… but there you go.

    1. cluster

      Ian Tomlinson’s shove was a lot rougher and followed a whack from a baton. He died soon afterwards.

      The two incidents are not remotely comparable.

      1. cluster

        Ian Tomlinson was also not surrounding the PM’s car. He wasn’t even protesting. He happened to be walking by.

  13. jeanclaudetrichet

    Anyone who thinks the Gardaí are excessive – has not seen police abroad. I have seen Spanish, French, British, American and Indian police use extraordinary high levels of excessive force. The Spanish were the worst. By contrast – I have seen the Gardaí using saintly restraint – countless times on nights out.

    1. aretheymyfeet

      I heard in Tianeman Square they even roll tanks over protesters so we should be glad our Gardai are so restrained. Maybe these other countries police use excessive force and so possibly pointless to compare against against. That wasnt reasonable force at all.

  14. Drogg

    Since when has broadsheet gone so right wing. People have a right to protest and the gardai where wrong in how they handled it those people where not a threat to the taioseach and throwing people to the ground it not procedure ether if a bouncer did that they would be up for assault you are supposed immobilise remove and detain, not throw on the ground and wait for them to come at you again that is completely pointless. Protests here need to start getting violent then maybe the garda would realise what proper protests are like not attacking middle age women in santry or skinny protesters in Mayo.

    1. Mister Mister

      Capitals, commas, full stops, sentences, paragraphs, deep breaths.

      They’re all free to use.

    2. Walter Ego

      I reckon there must be a lot of overtime in FG HQ, i’ve noticed the sudden influx of the Government Apologists on this site of late. it’s sickening.

      1. Drogg

        Look at this comment section full of FG apologists and people who think we should be coughing up more money to be wasted on consultants for an over payed quango.

        1. cluster

          Are they overpaid? What salaries are they on at various levels of seniority? What salaries should they be on?

          How do the salaries compare to the ESB or Scottish Water or Yorkshire Water or one of the ten Dutch water companies?

    3. cluster

      I have mixed feeling about the protests (I support water charges but I don’t like the idea of IW being privatised and I reckon Hogan botched the job) but there is a difference in my mind between protesting and acting in a threatening fashion close to the head of govt.

      1. Drogg

        But we pay for water from income tax and how come the LPT doesn’t fund the water ether. And let’s be honest those protests aren’t violent, look at the protests across Europe and see where we are going wrong.

        1. cluster

          We do not pay for our water through income tax. We pay for some proportion of our water. We have been allowing the infrastructure crumble in order to save money in the hands of numerous different councils. The rest comes from borrowing, now that relying purely on construction tax receipts has stopped working.

          Water is a precious resource and I think it is right assign a value to it.

          I hope charges will encourage conservation measures and rainwater harvesting. I also hope that it will lead to pressure being out on IW/pols to invest in the system.

          1. Drogg

            Cluster people don’t have the money it is that simple and if all this was about conservation the meters would be where people can read them not buryed outside out of sight and why is our water going to be more expensive then say Spain’s water rates, when they are a country that actually has water problems? The 150million euro to hire consultants for water Ireland not including staff wages and bonuses would go a long way to fixing our water system which has an estimated cost to 2 billion to renew. If we actually collected corporation tax from multinationals in this country instead of letting them use loopholes or if we still weren’t bailing out bond holders who are basically gamblers that bitch when they lose the we would be well able to repair our water system without a new quango or tax.

          2. cluster

            It’s going to cost more than 2bn and even 2bn is thirteen times the figure you have quoted.

            I’m not going to defend the set up of IW. It seems as if Board Gais won on the basis of expertise which they have since sold to Centrica.Nor do I know much about the installation of the meters. I presume they replaced where they are to prevent vandalism or tampering.

            Spain is not a best case example. They have had similar problems with auction politics and basing govt policies on unsustainable construction receipts in recent times. Typically across Europe per capita annual charges seem to be in the region of 200 euros.

            The tax ‘loopholes’ discussed recently are paper exercises. When they are closed we won’t gain a new long-term revenue stream – they’ll just go another route sooner or later. The ‘bailout’ is infuriating but unilaterally deciding not to pay seems to be a risky move (think Dev refusing to pay the land annuities and starting the Economic War) and there is little real desire around to go that route.

            The people can’t pay is not true in most cases, usually it is the people don’t want to pay. Presumably those that genuinely cant will be subsidised. The attitude displayed by those poor Dalkey landowner evictees are sadly not unusual in Ireland. We are only now beginning to approach the taxation burden of most of our neighbours.

  15. Fergus the magic postman

    I’m sorry, but under no circumstances can the actions demonstrated in that video be excused as the guard having a job to do, and that’s him doing it.

    In that video, the actions carried out by more than one Guard, on more than one person are nothing short of disgrace.

  16. Eeejit

    The biggest disgrace is not the actions of the Gardaí but the muppet shooting vertical video. Jazzzzzussss.

  17. Geoff

    Oh the indignation ! Be careful up on that moral height. To the Gardai on duty I’d just like to say thank you and well done. I don’t know of any other job where you have so many experts telling you how to do your job from their sofas.

    1. Fergus the magic postman

      You don’t have to be an expert. Even babies are taught from as early an age as possible the most basic levels of right and wrong, honesty and dishonesty etc.

  18. mn8forever

    hey gang! just rewatch the video and think:
    every time that fat knacker`s head hits the pavement a star is born

    helps me to sleep

  19. Alfred E. Neumann

    Like an autumn leaf on a breezeless afternoon, this thread has drifted left and right and finally found the bottom.

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