Grexit Through The Gift Shop

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Germany has rejected Greece’s application to extend its loan agreement and renegotiate the terms of its bailout, raising the very real threat of Athens running out of money in the coming weeks.
The Berlin government said on Thursday that Greece’s application for a six-month extension of its loan and a renegotiation of some its terms was “no substantial solution.”

Germany rejects Greece’s application to extend its loan agreement (CNBC)

Historic Depths of Greece’s Economic Misery, Charted (Salon)

Graphs via Salon

45 thoughts on “Grexit Through The Gift Shop

    1. ahjayzis

      Suicides, hunger, people dying from preventable illnesses, mass unemployment, the second rise of Nazism in Europe – all a small price to pay for a moral lesson.

      The children of Greece will understand some day.

      1. Sinabhfuil

        Maybe this is not vicious heartlessness, but a scientific German experiment to show that Naziism can actually rise in another country and culture, given the same conditions, so it’s not their fault really.

        1. ahjayzis

          So… the fact that Greece’s Nazi party came third in a general election LAST MONTH is not relevant to a piece about Greece?

          Or it is relevant, but for some reason we have to ignore the fact because you can’t talk about fascism and Germany out of, what, politeness?

          Scaldy and pig ignorant. Impressive.

          1. Vote Rep #1

            Greeces far-right party. It is actually possible to talk about post war Germany and the current rise of far right politics in Europe without making the typical and unimaginative references to the Nazi’s. But yeah, I am being pig ignorant ffs.

          2. ahjayzis

            It’s not a reference, Golden Dawn is a national socialist party, baldly based on the…

            You know what, there’s no point arguing it, either you’ve never heard of Golden Dawn or you’re a troll – it’s a Nazi party by f*cking definition.

        2. Odis

          @ Vote Rep “Reference to nazism in the reply to the first post for a piece involving Germany. Impressive”. – more impressive than your intellectually lazy comment surely.

          The “European Community” have decided to enforce the austere economic prescriptions of the 1930’s across vast swathes of Europe.

          And then become surprised and indignant when the popular politics of the 1930’s start to re-appear.

          1. Vote Rep #1

            It is intellectually lazy to refer to any far right party as Nazis. The rise of far right parties generally goes hand in hand with recessions, something Europe is in, something which happened in the 80’s. It is also lazy to continually refer to Germanys past when Germany is just one country, albeit the largest, pushing austerity measures. The Dutch, Scandinavian and UK are also pushing it. It is far easier though to bring up Germanys past both in relation the events during the war and what happened to it after the war.

          2. Odis

            That’s an internet truism, certainly. Which is OK, if you like those sort of intellectual boundaries.
            Your comparison of the current economic climate with the 1980’s is probably inappropriate.

      2. Bobby

        It’s better to throw cash at them and let them dig themselves deeper into a hole and ensuring more suicides, hunger, people dying from preventable illnesses, mass unemployment, the second rise of Nazism in Europe?

        1. ahjayzis

          The Eurozone’s answer IS to throw more cash at them, in a third bailout and expect a different result.

          Greece wants less or zero loans, and instead to delay repayment / make it contingent on affordability.

          You’re actually arguing the Greek position.

          1. Bobby

            No, Greece’s position is to get free money. Germany’s position is that Greece should have been sorting itself out for the last decade with all the German money been thrown at it, and if they are to continue throwing money at them, there had better be results.

          2. Odis

            If they are really throwing money at the Greeks. Why aren’t the Greeks getting richer?

            My guess is that they are paying money to the Greeks with one hand and then taking it away with the other.

            We hear that the Greeks partied so much better than ourselves. In reality German Banks lent money to Greek Banks, that then went broke.

            The German Banks should not have lent this money foolishly.
            The talk is of moral hazard. There is no morality in taxing, the many, for the crimes and stupidities of the few, who brought about this crisis.

    2. ahjayzis

      You’ve laid bare the Eurozone crisis’ problem – sadistic idiots like you who believe an entire nation must be punished. We all know the measures forced on Greece won’t lead to recovery or prosperity, it’s a punishment plain and simple.

      1. Jonotti

        In planet crazy being punished equates to not being loaned billions of euro. Germany are saying no more money. Greece and its citizens are completely responsible for their problems.

        1. Spartacus

          Too right. Let’s watch ’em crash and burn. That’ll learn them real good, won’t it Jocknotti?

          1. Jonotti

            Get your wallet out champ and put your money where your mouth is. Save the poor people of Greece from their relatively wealthy Western lifestyles.

        2. ahjayzis

          It’s not a question of ‘not being loaned’, they’re given no choice BUT to take loans. Loans that will cripple their economy, push more of their people into deeper poverty… and that’s it.

          The option to default is stripped from them, default is a DAILY occurrence in business when far less is at stake. When you cannot default you cannot negotiate – it’s the definition of debt servitude. You have no card to play. And they’re not even looking for a default – they want loan repayments contingent on the level of surplus / growth rate. The German reaction is that it’s unreasonable to build the concept of affordability of debt into debt talks.

          And let’s play that card if you want, Germany and it’s citizens were completely responsible for the deaths of 6 million Jews and millions more people. Do you really believe that? Every child, man and woman in Germany were responsible? You must be fuming the entire country wasn’t wiped off the face of the planet. Greece may have been misruled but let’s put their mistakes into perspective – no one died. They are dying now.

          1. Bobby

            The German response was to help them. And Greece did nothing. And Germany’s response was to help them again. And Greece did nothing. And Germany’s response was to help them. And Greece did nothing. And Germany’s response was to say “No more! Sort yourselves out.” And your response is “It’s all Germany’s fault”

          2. ahjayzis

            Untrue. As you know from our own experience, if you don’t meet the programme commitments, no more money – they’ve met their programmes, and they’re still in a hole and on the cusp of a third bailout. How many before Brussels realises it’s just not working and to try something different? If Ireland was in Greece’s position and we’d gone through the last 6 years only to find ourselves worse than where we started, would we be happy to continue?

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis_countermeasures#First_austerity_package_.28February_2010.29

        3. f

          @Jonotti German and French banks gave lots of money to Greece in the run-up to 2008; they weren’t too worried about the risks.
          In the course of the Greek ‘bailout’, Greece got lots of money from Europe to give back to the German and French banks – their creditors at the time.
          It went like this: Europe (public money) -> Greece (public money – for a millisecond) -> European banks (private money)
          The (mostly French and German) banks got all their money back, and Greece was left owing lots of money to Europe.
          At no point did Europe ‘give’ money to Greece – they just washed money through Greece and back to their own banks. For the privilege of having money washed through their country and back to French and German banks, Greece was told to sign up to a whole bunch of ‘reforms’ that have destroyed the Greek economy.

          Mad lefty radical Ajai Chopra (of the IMF – you might remember him from our own ‘bailout’) makes the same point: ‘Instead of recognizing that Greece’s debt burden was unsustainable and negotiating a deep debt restructuring at the outset, the euro area and the IMF decided to bail out Greece’s private creditors, who held most of its debt. That is, public money was lent to Greece and this money was used to repay maturing private debt, which was held primarily by French and German banks. Creditors, whose profligacy had matched that of the Greeks, were allowed to cash out rather than face the consequences of their bad decisions.’ http://blogs.piie.com/realtime/?p=4818

          1. f

            Fist line there should be ‘German and French banks loaned lots of money to Greece in the run-up to 2008′ – don’t want any misunderstanding!

          2. Odis

            “‘German and French banks loaned lots of money to Greece in the run-up to 2008″ – So they were incompetent as bankers. Guess what should have happened but didn’t?

            Why should the Greek population as a whole be held responsible for this German and French incompetence? Seems like Europe’s re-invented socialism for Fat Cats.

    3. Joe

      I hear they are planning on revolting on that recently elected party. Wonder will Paul Murphy go over for the revolts.

  1. Unreconstructed

    That second graph looks a bit dodgy. Why choose the period of 1913-1920 for Germany, including the important years when it fought a World War (1914-1918)? Germany’s financial troubles happened later in the 20s. This is data manipulation to fit a narrative. Tut, tut or whatever…

  2. realPolithicks

    The European Union is a “union” in name only. It’s time that the people of Europe, particularly those in the so called “peripheral” countries took the time for a reassessment of how this grouping functions and if the benefits still outweigh the downsides.

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