‘Defend It To The Hilt’

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A message of encouragement from the Iona Institute’s David Quinn to No campaigners who  might be obliged to defend that ad (above).

Earlier: The Mammy Complex

Heather Barwick?

Yesterday: Shame On You

Thanks Derrick Howard

Meanwhile…

https://vine.co/v/eKr1jinXEHB

Muinteoir heads for no.

Despicable.

Comic sans?

Teachers call for No vote, saying Yes would present ‘challenges for educators’ (BreakingNews.ie)

155 thoughts on “‘Defend It To The Hilt’

    1. Nially

      I dunno, maybe not “The Yes side is out to condemn children”, because surely even he knows that’s a complete lie?

      1. Ted

        Condemning children to a life of knowing their details are held under lock and key on a government computer. David Quinn is a liar in your book?

        1. Clampers Outside!

          Ted, you are assuming rules of adoption are not changing. They are. When they do, and no one is allowed donate or be a surrogate etc. without declaring that they can be contacted by the child if so desired, would you be happy then?

          Just curious.

          1. Ted

            Still waiting for evidence of David Quinn’s lies. At least the nuns sent the kids under their care to good homes. Kept proper records aswell. They never paid/forced vulnerable women to hire out their wombs.

          2. Orla

            Didn’t they send at least one woman to a family in USA where she abused by her adoptive father?

        2. scottser

          you are aware then, that the dept of education wants to hold personal details of all children on a database, with or without parental consent?

  1. newsjustin

    Seems sensible that if an organisation issues an advert that it is prepared to back it up.

    1. ReproBertie

      Are Mother and Fathers matter officially a front for the Iona Institute then?

      1. newsjustin

        I don’t know, but I do know that David Quinn is on the board of MFM. So maybe that explains it…….

        1. Clampers Outside!

          Ah, that explains the incompetent and sometimes purposeful misinterpretation of research MFM is now known for…. good to know.

          Following the competency levels of Iona’s low bar I see.

  2. Jay

    Can someone do a list of all the provincial papers that carry this ad?

    If they’re happy to take money to print lies from the no side, I want to ensure I don’t give them any of mine.

    1. Odis

      Oh yeah you’ll be cancelling all your subscriptions to provincial newspapers that carry this advert.
      That should put a stop to this nonsense!

    2. Mr. T.

      “Can someone do a list of all the provincial papers that carry this ad?”

      Do it yourself lazy boy.

    3. yrtnuocecnareviled

      This is the same drek we listened to about single mothers and divorce.

      1. Drogg

        Come on, at least make an effort to disguise your trolling. You know play the long gam,e pull people into a false sense of security and maybe use some subtlety.

  3. Grace

    Just walked past a load of new No lying posters telling people not to be silenced and vote no. Yes that’s right, vote no and silence the gays instead. Bastards.

        1. newsjustin

          I don’t think they are – other than maybe by the prevailing public mood which really doesn’t think very highly of possible No voters (see below for an example). But then, I never said they were being silenced!

          Grace claims that a No vote will silence gay people. That’s what I asked her to clarify.

      1. Grace

        A no vote will declare that gay people are second class citizens in their own country, and hugely reinforce the reasoning behind the homophobia and bullying that many gay people still experience in Ireland. Newsjustin -you do seem to be all over these posts with your pro no agenda- paid up Iona stooge are you??

        1. Odis

          Paid up Iona stooge. No that would be me.

          How will a no vote declare gays to be second class citizens?

        2. newsjustin

          There is no reason for homophobes or bullying. So I don’t see how not redefining marriage will add any validity to those who would indulge in homophobes or bullying.

  4. newsjustin

    I’m seriously tempted to vote No at this stage. I can’t stand the silliness of the Yes side anymore.

          1. Odis

            Abe long time no see. Is the reason you’ve been so passive on this debate is because you realise its merely an argument about semantics?

    1. Nially

      Wait, what, you? Vote No? None of us ever, ever, ever, EVER suspected in your weeks of posting “I’m a Yes vote, but literally everything the Yes side does is awful, and the No side keeps making REALLY good points!” nonsense that you might actually ‘change your mind’ and vote No, EVER.

        1. DubLoony

          Have a read of Ursula Hannigan’s piece in today’s Irish times. Then let is know if you are still on the fence.

    2. edalicious

      That’s it, change your vote to spite someone, not because it’s what you believe in. Really mature and responsible.

      Not that I actually believe that you’re anything but a troll who was always going to vote No anyway.

      1. newsjustin

        It’s been less silly, patronising and high-handed. And its points on the family are compelling.

        1. Bobby

          Not really. They consistently lied and every single point they’ve made has been torn apart. They ignore this and keep harping on about being victims.

          Many elements of the yes side have been overly aggressive and many times abusive, but their arguments for ssm have been verifiable.

          1. Clampers Outside!

            Exhibit A:

            tm is a no voter who hasn’t researched the oppositions point of view and needs citations to show the claims of the no side are lies….

            *blinkered*

          2. ionabike

            Eh I think you might want to step back and appreciate that TM actually contributed 2 words to that post. Baby steps…

    3. Wait For It

      On another thread earlier were some comments about the poor quality of trolling that’s been done here lately, and someone pointed out that expert trollers play the long game. And here is a fine example of that – someone who has long claimed that they would be voting yes, but nevertheless took every opportunity to point out how sensible the ‘no’ side’s arguments were if only you’d just give them a listen, slowly over time becoming open about voting ‘no’, but only changing their opinion because of the behaviour of the ‘yes’ side. I tip my hat to you, sir, in how well you’ve insinuated yourself into every discussion on this subject, subtly but definitely advancing a ‘no’ agenda without ever being honest about your stance. It’s a masterclass in hiding in plain sight. Trolls, behold your new king.

      1. newsjustin

        Ah that’s not fair. I’ve been back and forth in my own mind on a Yes/No vote.

        Are you saying that no one has the right to change their mind? From a Yes to a No or a No to a Yes? Surely the whole point of debate is to consider and, if necessary, change ones opinion.

        I guess I’m still undecided.

        1. newsjustin

          I think I said on another post that I was perhaps 51% Yes 49% No……….I don’t think I’m alone having doubts or POSSIBLY changing my mind.

          Surely people changing their minds is what the Yes side want (granted to their side).

          1. Keith

            If you are being honest, I’d have to say its not borne out by *any* of your comments, which are exclusively from the point of view of the no side.

            From my point of view, the most the no side can produce are concerns (and fear of course, loads of that).

            Any change can raise concerns but society has proven that when given the chance, they can and do accept any family unit. Why wouldn’t you? You might have internal prejudices because it is different to what you are used to, but you realise that its your problem and you see the people for what they are. Nice families are nice people. Loving parents are a blessing.

        2. edalicious

          Everyone has a right to change their mind based on the pros and cons of the referendum itself, not based on how they feel some people associated with campaigning for one side or another are behaving. That’s just pure play-school childishness and an incredibly irresponsible and undemocratic way to treat your vote. I know most might consider this melodramatic, but people literally fought and died to give you the right to vote and millions, if not billions, of people today still don’t have that right so cop on, do some actual fact-based research and vote based on that. Play the ball, not the man, as it were.

          1. newsjustin

            Perhaps I didn’t explain. I’m not really tempted to vote No because of the behaviour of the yes side…..that’s background noise, though it does matter. I’ve just been listening to both sides of the debate.

            I can assure you. I take my vote very seriously.

          2. Don Pidgeoni

            Then why do you repeatedly say it? If you were really on the fence you would much more reflective in your comments which I do not see at all. You claim to be undecided but on nearly every post come out in support of the no side while claiming to just be “debating”, when all your do is repeat what the no side say or write without thinking about it. Undecided my hoop.

      2. Don Pidgeoni

        If so, it is indeed very clever. Just the right side of troll to be maybe normal. So hard to tell though!

    4. Annie

      To be honest newsjustin, I never really believed you to be a Yes voter. Vote how you wish but just give it a rest – nobody cares.

  5. Smiley Bolger

    There’s another week of this to go

    I never thought I’d welcome back Stuff that Looks Like Ireland. But I would. Or half-naked models on Stephens’ Green

  6. Drogg

    That Heather one seems like a bit of a dope. She openly says that her father was a bad person, so she basically is blaming the person who didn’t abandon her and her partner who treated her like her own child for the absence of a bad father. It just doesn’t make sense that you’d want to trade to people who love you for one that abandoned you. Also the ad indicates that a child said that but I’m Heathers own article she said she was still campaigning for SSM in her mid twenties. This is just another piece of nonsense from the no side that can be easily pulled apart.

      1. Drogg

        It is complete nonsense, like seriously who in their right mind goes, “I wish i had have lived with the parent that didn’t want me”.

        1. ionabike

          Well not to defend this bullshit but kids very often long for the bad parent who abandoned them. I personally know a girl who spent the first 8 years of her life watching her mother being subjected to horrific violence by her father. To this day she hates him yet longs for him.

          The counter to this particular No side point is that the make up of a family unit i.e. 2 dad’s, 2 mam’s, 1 dad, 1mam, in no way precludes or enables abuse and misery .

          1. Drogg

            I did not know that, I know plenty of people including myself that had a parent disappear from their lives and created a monster of resentment but it’s good to know there is a flip side to that coin. But your final point is totally right, sometimes people just suck as parents no matter what their sexuality.

  7. mike

    Poor Heather Barwick is just ONE person who is unhappy about having been raised by a same-sex couple … in ANOTHER jurisdiction. Who HASNT been presented in any of the debates I’ve seen.

    So, not a great reference case for the NO campaign. But I haven’t seen anyone call her a bigot.

    I’d imagine it would be easy enough to also find a person on the planet who is unhappy about being raised by a heterosexual couple and would have preferred to have been raised by their gay mom/dad.

    But only if the Yes campaign were into that sort of silly point-scoring on a red-herring issue which is not impacted by changing the constitutional clause on marriage. There will always be some Heather Barwicks and anti-Heathers with or without this referendum.

    1. Annie

      Oh please, Heather Barwick, in regard to your less-than-adequate upbringing, don’t play the “gay card.” Your parents may not have supported you, but do not put the blame on my family’s, or any other LGBT family’s, structure. Your family being dysfunctional had nothing to do with your mother being gay. It had everything to do with having a father, a mother and a stepmother who all failed you as parents in some way or another.

      You are right in that there are hard topics that need to be talked about. Divorce is a hard topic. A parent leaving you is a hard topic. Being surrounded by negative role models is a hard topic. As a young girl, you were abandoned and raised in a negative, man-hating environment where you felt you couldn’t speak, but this does not give you the right to strike out at the gay community as a whole.

      Talk about how your parents didn’t parent correctly to whatever excess you please, but do not make a blanket statement about gay parenting simply because your family is dysfunctional and an abandoned little girl inside you is hurt.

  8. Drogg

    If i seen one of my kids teachers at that i would ask for them to be removed from their school. I don’t want a bigot to be in a position of power over my kids and how can these people guide and educate kids through some of the most difficult years of their lives if they don’t believe in equality?

    1. Ppads

      If these people feel so strongly about two gay adults getting married then it is not unreasonable that parents express their concern about their children’s education. They have stepped into a debate which has nothing to do with children’s rights and their professional judgement should be questioned because whiter this referendum is won or lost, they will still have to teach children of gay parents and also, children themselves who are gay.
      Let them publically state who they are and the school that employs them. Then, the parents will decide if their child’s best interests is served.
      What next, teachers against lone parents? This sh|t really is from a bygone age.

      1. Drogg

        I don’t think of myself as a SJW but I think I put my kids happiness and wellbeing above the rights of some bigots. At the end of the day how would kids of same sex parents or gay children feel being taught by people like this?

  9. smiffy

    Has anyone called Heather Barwick a ‘hate-monger’? Or is this another lie from David Quinn.

    Also, if the child in the picture is supposed to be Heather Barwick-lite, why isn’t she saying “I want a Daddy, not two mammies”?

    1. Ppads

      Because most same sex parents are women and we can’t get “OUR” head around that one.

  10. ReproBertie

    Just saw on Six One that the No campaign have brought in a Dutch psychologist who said that the average gay relationship lasts just 18 months.

    Why can’t they be more like straight people and marry the first person they have a relationship with?

    1. Clampers Outside!

      What length did they say heteros last?

      Were the gays in question in ‘civil’ type partnerships and/or marriages? …or just dating / long-term dating?

      The no side are great for shoving out some research or academic just to cherry pic some points and reference research incorrectly… it’s par for the course with them. I’ll have a gander…

      1. Joe the Lion

        Oh please don’t

        Life’s too short Clampers – you’ll never get this moment back

  11. Clo

    ‘Teachers for a no vote’, a group of ‘teachers and academics’? All I see is four teachers and one academic – john Murray, Mater Dei – who’s a paid up member of Iona. Why give such people any publicity?

    1. Joe the Lion

      The shite they are coming out with is appalling. Have you read the actual text? They want a free pass to absolutely disregard the law of the land. They are disgusting venal reprobates who are a disgrace to the teaching profession

        1. tm

          “Why give such people any publicity” These people are entitled to publicly voice their opinions, even if you don’t agree.
          What do you mean when you say “such people”?

          1. Clo

            What I meant by my comment is that 5 people outside the Dail with no signs of other official support or organisation (such as a website/petition with a couple of hundred signatures or similar) is not worth reporting on.They are entitled to their beliefs/opinions, but they are not news. I could get 5 people together, calling ourselves ‘Ladies with big feet supporting a yes vote’ or some such, and then spout some specious stuff about how ‘it is entirely clear that if the no side win this referendum, what will follow is that all children in schools will be forced to learn the words to Dana songs instead of having science classes’. I could do that, but it wouldn’t be worth reporting in the national media.

  12. nellyb

    What upsets me the most is the type of love extended to non-heterosexuals by the ‘no’ side. The type that is extended to people with mental or physical disabilities. I am surprised how restrained and civilised our LGBT community is, given this lingering stink of moral hetero supremacy. Supremacy that failed to demonstrate over and over again how biological mothers and fathers are the fool-proofed guarantors of child’s wellbeing. There are good parents and terrible parents hetero or homo. It’s f&cking laughable, people, that ABCs of life must be explained to mature people, often with own families. What’s next? Discussions about sun revolving around the earth? Penduling rather.

  13. Jim

    I’ve read a lot of upsetting stuff regarding this referendum but those teachers should be absolutely fupping ashamed of themselves

    1. Joe the Lion

      True

      They are the true embodiment of everything backwards, wrong and screwed up in this country

        1. Joe the Lion

          I’m sure that was meant to be some kind of insult.
          But not to worry as a true Christian I’ll turn the other bum cheek.

  14. Bort

    After reading Heathers articles I can confirm that when my parents split I too missed my Dad, even when my Mam moved in with another man I still missed my Dad. This whole a child NEEDS a mother and a father thing is hogwash, the way I was brought I practically had neither and spent most of my time in my neighbors or my granny’s. I turned out ok (hopefully). One good parent of any sex would’ve been a bonus

  15. Scaredtogopublic

    I was a hard “Yes” a year ago, a soft “Yes” six weeks ago, a soft “NO” a few days ago, and a hard “NO” today.

    What swung me over?

    1) Pantigate: Let’s all call anyone who disagrees with us a bigot and a homophobe. Oh gee thanks, you mean my Grandad? Way to go, fellas.

    2) Hacking the YD site. Why? Just why? I know I’m in a minority on broadsheet, but I’m broadly anti choice, as the cool kids say. Happen to think the unborn have human rights. Not a fan of YD, but that sent a very clear message that this was a liberal cause, and a liberal cause alone.

    3) Tearing down the posters. Oh right. This is a democracy, is it?

    4) The general tone.

    I’m a 35 year old straight male. I’m actually in favour of gay marriage, but it’s not something I wake up in the morning thinking about. It’s just another issue, tbh. It’ll happen eventually – let’s face it, if this thing doesn’t pass, there’ll be another vote along in a few years.

    As such, I’ve made up my mind finally. I’m voting NO. The yes side deserves to lose. It’s been, from day one, tone deaf, despicable, and offensively unwilling to treat its opponents with the slightest decency.

    When the boxes open next week and you all start hearing things about boxes going 2-1 NO in places like westmeath, and Kerry, and East Galway, and Tipp, remember, it was people like me who just got sick of your shit. You all better hope there’s enough of you hipsters in Dublin to make up the difference.

    1. Drogg

      If that was the stuff to make you vote no you where never a strong Yes. If you want to deny people equality cause a few things annoyed you, I really think you need to look at yourself and stop acting like a spoilt child.

    2. Ppads

      Scaredtogopublic, you can search around for all the excuses in the world but it boils down to one thing, you do not believe gay people are equal and that stems from your latent homophobia. Most of us are homophobic at some level but we try and keep it in check by questioning ourselves. You on the other hand do not even recognise that it exists therefore it is no surprise that you nitpick the equality message. It Here is a question for you. If one of your children turns out to be gay, would you want him or her to be treated any differently?

    3. Don Pidgeoni

      But you will vote for a no side based almost entirely on lies and mistruths? Hmm, I doubt this hard yes business.

    4. Stumpy

      Let’s get this straight – All FOUR of your stated reasons for intending to vote ‘No’, have nothing to do with the issue at hand. Well done, genius.

    5. Gav D

      I was a hard “No” a year ago, a soft “No” six weeks ago, a soft “YES” a few days ago, and a hard “YES” today.

      What swung me over?

      1) Pantigate: Let’s all call anyone who disagrees with us a bigot and a homophobe. Oh gee thanks, you mean my Grandad? Way to go, fellas.

      2) Hacking the YD site. Why? Just why? I know I’m in a minority on broadsheet, but I’m broadly anti choice, as the cool kids say. Happen to think the unborn have human rights. Not a fan of YD, but that sent a very clear message that this was a liberal cause, and a liberal cause alone.

      3) Tearing down the posters. Oh right. This is a democracy, is it?

      4) The general tone.

      I’m a 35 year old straight male. I’m actually in favour of gay marriage, but it’s not something I wake up in the morning thinking about. It’s just another issue, tbh. It’ll happen eventually – let’s face it, if this thing doesn’t pass, there’ll be another vote along in a few years.

      As such, I’ve made up my mind finally. I’m voting YES. The NO side deserves to lose. It’s been, from day one, tone deaf, despicable, and offensively unwilling to treat its opponents with the slightest decency.

      When the boxes open next week and you all start hearing things about boxes going 2-1 YES in places like westmeath, and Kerry, and East Galway, and Tipp, remember, it was people like me who just got sick of your poo. You all better hope there’s enough of you hipsters in Dublin to make up the difference.

      1. ahjayzis

        I think you may have have mixed up the sides?

        I mean, er, YEAH! VOTE YES AND TEACH DEM GAYS A LESSON!

    6. munkifisht

      *Faceslap

      Wow you’re dumb. You’re voting against what you thought was right and just because of the actions of a few as it seems just to spite them.

    7. Nially

      4) The general tone

      This one kinda says it all really – no actual specifics, just a general “The gays are sounding a bit uppity, so fupp em”.

      1. Nially

        Also, if you were a “hard Yes” a year ago, you were a hard Yes long after Pantigate, so how on earth is that a thing that swung you from “Yes” to “No”? Unless you’re *gasp* lying through your teeth about your former voting intentions and/or the reason your mind has been changed?

    1. Drogg

      Hope you’re here commenting when the results come in. Can I ask why you are voting no? Do you have a reason?

    2. Don Pidgeoni

      Smug and sanctimonious, not at all like what you claim the yes side to be are you?

Comments are closed.