Fair play Mick, a great and succinct point made well.
MOtorCyclist
+1
rotide
Err, This isn’t satire.
Rob_G
haha… :(
donkey_kong
I don’t think it’s fair to comment on the garda case , The DPP didn’t proceed with charges for their own reasons. He was punished internally by the gardai for being a bad garda rather than a criminal.
The case against him isn’t unproven , who bar the DPP knows why.
As of now the Garda in question raped nobody.
Its’ important to highlight and try to combat rape in the strongest terms but also to do it right.
Rob_G
It might not be an actual sexual assault in the legal sense, but it’s definitely very ‘rape-y’.
A 2013 study of sentences since 2007 by the Irish Sentencing Information System found that only three exceptional cases were found where sentences of two years or less were imposed for rape. No rape cases were found for which the punishment was a suspended sentence.
“Thus it would appear that a non-custodial sentence for rape is wholly exceptional and remains the law,” it said.
In 17 cases sentences ranged from three to eight years, and the majority, 15, imposed sentences of between five and seven years for rape. These included historic and more recent recent cases of child sexual abuse that included rape and instances where a degree of violence was used.
In another 23 cases, punishments ranged from nine to 14 years, and in general they involved a breach of a position of trust, such as the rape of a daughter or family member; and involved many counts of rape, particular forms of violence, degradation or humiliation.However, in another 12 cases sentences ranged from 15 years to life imprisonment.
Professor Tom O’Malley of NUI Galway, a member of the Irish Sentencing Information System committee, said the results showed that there were few sentences that were lenient and those that were tended to be highlighted in the media.
Of course it’s the state’s fault when the media highlight the expectional.
Dόn Pídgéόní
Well that’s reassuring. It doesn’t stop judgments in cases like this being outrageous
ReproBertie
No it doesn’t nor was it meant to.
Dόn Pídgéόní
So state’s fault or media’s fault?
ReproBertie
Both. The state should not have allowed such a leniant sentence and the media should not have reported on it as if it was the norm.
Dόn Pídgéόní
Yah, see you point now. As you were :)
rotide
I don’t think the media ever reported on it as if it were the norm?
cluster
The media are right to highlight exceptional cases.
ReproBertie
Yes, they are right to highlight them but they should point out that they are exceptional.
Anomanomanom
The thing is it might be a minority of cases but it’s a big enough % of the overall to be worthy of news coverage.
ReproBertie
There is no might. It is a tiny minority of cases. It still shouldn’t happen but there’s nothing at all stopping the media highlighting how exceptional it is while reporting on it instead of talking about how such sentences could discourage victims from reporting the crime. Perhaps if they pointed out how exceptional it is they would help victims feel more comfortable about coming forward.
There’s an attitude that these crimes are not as serious as they are. Evidence: Garda rape tape, Anthony Lyons, the above, temporary closure of Wexford Women’s Refuge relatively recently due to funding cuts…
Jackdaw
In fairness the Garda rape tape was utter bullpoo.
newsjustin
+1
But good point made in the cartoon.
cluster
I agree with the point made in the cartoon but the ‘Garda rape tape’ was a load of hullabaloo about nothing.
The protestor had shouted rape at the Guards & they were laughing at the very idea that they would do such a thing. I would find it difficult to deal with & I think the Guards involved were within their rights to process it with humour.
The only thing they did wrong was not to check that the camera was recording.
Mr. T.
The DPP is far too secretive. Many people suspect that they are pressured by politicians and people of influence to drop cases. That is illegal of course but this is Ireland. There is the law and then behind the law there is a network of winks and nods and phone calls that nobody else hears about.
I know of one case not pursued by the DPP without a reason given despite compelling evidence and witness statements. A man’s life was broken as a result of the crime committed against him. This state does not serve or protect all citizens equally.
newsjustin
I know you know this, but that’s an incredibly serious accusation (that people with power pressure the DPP into making particular decisions).
I can’t be 100% sure that you’re wrong though, but I really, really would hope that you are. My gut tells me that politicians don’t want to me within 200 metres of the DPP’s offices lest they be accused of trying to influence them – it’s political suicide.
cluster
You (and I) can’t be sure he is wrong because the DPP’s operations are so opaque.
Is here even a formal process to have DPP decisions reviewed – such as happened in the UK when the CPS made the baffling decision not to prosecute Lord Renner?
Ciarán Masterson
The sex between the garda and the prostitute was consensual.
pedeyw
Yeah, kind of. There was certainly an imbalance of power there, though: The IT article says “The garda had been involved in the prosecution of both women”, which, even if the garda didn’t mean it to, probably compelled the woman to consent.
Dόn Pídgéόní
Was it? Or was it I better have sex with him so he goes easy on the evidence in the court case so i don’t have to serve as long/any time? That is not consensual.
Anne
What about the 2 Guards from Dublin on a Christmas night out in Limerick looking for prostitutes, banging on the wrong door.
Ah sure that’s consensual too! Not like they could arrest them if they didn’t. . oh wait
Anne
Yeah.. the batin’ they gave the young fella down down at the chicken hut was consensual too.
Going for chicken, meeting the same pigs who were banging down your door earlier .. what were the chances?
These ones are still serving too.
ollie
When RTE reported this case they didn’t mention the man’s name (it’s Magnus Meyer Hustveit, by the way).
It’s unprecedented for state media to run a news item on a convicted rapist and not name him, I wonder why?
ReproBertie
“It’s unprecedented for state media to run a news item on a convicted rapist and not name him”
That’s not true. The rapist is often left anonymous to protect the victim. In this case she had waived anonymity though so RTÉ should have had no issues naming him.
Lilly
What was really weird about that case was that the victim wouldn’t have known about the rape had her ex not written to her and told her about it. Did his conscience get the better of him or was he taunting her?
Karen
Well she found semen on herself on one occasion and felt as if she had been penetrated on another so she did know something untoward had happened before the email exchange (from what I gleaned from the papers).
Lilly
Cripes. Wondering if his motive in confessing, if indeed it was a confession, was a mitigating factor when in came to sentencing. Apparently he moved on to a committed relationship pretty quickly. I imagine these revelations would be quite hard to stomach for any subsequent girlfriend.
Anne
Ah you’d be grand lilly, just sleep with one eye open
Now, that’s good satire !
Fair play Mick, a great and succinct point made well.
+1
Err, This isn’t satire.
haha… :(
I don’t think it’s fair to comment on the garda case , The DPP didn’t proceed with charges for their own reasons. He was punished internally by the gardai for being a bad garda rather than a criminal.
The case against him isn’t unproven , who bar the DPP knows why.
As of now the Garda in question raped nobody.
Its’ important to highlight and try to combat rape in the strongest terms but also to do it right.
It might not be an actual sexual assault in the legal sense, but it’s definitely very ‘rape-y’.
I suppose, that’s what the “allegedly” is for… anyone got a link to an article on that story, thanks
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-is-sanctioned-following-rape-allegation-1.2282603
Thanks Dereviled
A 2013 study of sentences since 2007 by the Irish Sentencing Information System found that only three exceptional cases were found where sentences of two years or less were imposed for rape. No rape cases were found for which the punishment was a suspended sentence.
“Thus it would appear that a non-custodial sentence for rape is wholly exceptional and remains the law,” it said.
In 17 cases sentences ranged from three to eight years, and the majority, 15, imposed sentences of between five and seven years for rape. These included historic and more recent recent cases of child sexual abuse that included rape and instances where a degree of violence was used.
In another 23 cases, punishments ranged from nine to 14 years, and in general they involved a breach of a position of trust, such as the rape of a daughter or family member; and involved many counts of rape, particular forms of violence, degradation or humiliation.However, in another 12 cases sentences ranged from 15 years to life imprisonment.
Professor Tom O’Malley of NUI Galway, a member of the Irish Sentencing Information System committee, said the results showed that there were few sentences that were lenient and those that were tended to be highlighted in the media.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rape-sentences-here-not-too-lenient-study-finds-29023195.html
Of course it’s the state’s fault when the media highlight the expectional.
Well that’s reassuring. It doesn’t stop judgments in cases like this being outrageous
No it doesn’t nor was it meant to.
So state’s fault or media’s fault?
Both. The state should not have allowed such a leniant sentence and the media should not have reported on it as if it was the norm.
Yah, see you point now. As you were :)
I don’t think the media ever reported on it as if it were the norm?
The media are right to highlight exceptional cases.
Yes, they are right to highlight them but they should point out that they are exceptional.
The thing is it might be a minority of cases but it’s a big enough % of the overall to be worthy of news coverage.
There is no might. It is a tiny minority of cases. It still shouldn’t happen but there’s nothing at all stopping the media highlighting how exceptional it is while reporting on it instead of talking about how such sentences could discourage victims from reporting the crime. Perhaps if they pointed out how exceptional it is they would help victims feel more comfortable about coming forward.
Look at you with your balance and reason !
Great point
Very true
That’s a good point. Noted.
What about this one –
http://bocktherobber.com/2013/07/man-who-punches-kicks-chokes-imprisons-and-threatens-to-kill-woman-gets-suspended-sentence/
Or this one –
http://bocktherobber.com/2013/11/anthony-lyons-goes-back-to-jail-for-sex-assault/
‘Minority’.. ‘Exceptional’.. I presume you mean suspended sentences.
It would seem not RetroBernie.
More comfortable.. yeah whatever.
Thanks for that.
There’s an attitude that these crimes are not as serious as they are. Evidence: Garda rape tape, Anthony Lyons, the above, temporary closure of Wexford Women’s Refuge relatively recently due to funding cuts…
In fairness the Garda rape tape was utter bullpoo.
+1
But good point made in the cartoon.
I agree with the point made in the cartoon but the ‘Garda rape tape’ was a load of hullabaloo about nothing.
The protestor had shouted rape at the Guards & they were laughing at the very idea that they would do such a thing. I would find it difficult to deal with & I think the Guards involved were within their rights to process it with humour.
The only thing they did wrong was not to check that the camera was recording.
The DPP is far too secretive. Many people suspect that they are pressured by politicians and people of influence to drop cases. That is illegal of course but this is Ireland. There is the law and then behind the law there is a network of winks and nods and phone calls that nobody else hears about.
I know of one case not pursued by the DPP without a reason given despite compelling evidence and witness statements. A man’s life was broken as a result of the crime committed against him. This state does not serve or protect all citizens equally.
I know you know this, but that’s an incredibly serious accusation (that people with power pressure the DPP into making particular decisions).
I can’t be 100% sure that you’re wrong though, but I really, really would hope that you are. My gut tells me that politicians don’t want to me within 200 metres of the DPP’s offices lest they be accused of trying to influence them – it’s political suicide.
You (and I) can’t be sure he is wrong because the DPP’s operations are so opaque.
Is here even a formal process to have DPP decisions reviewed – such as happened in the UK when the CPS made the baffling decision not to prosecute Lord Renner?
The sex between the garda and the prostitute was consensual.
Yeah, kind of. There was certainly an imbalance of power there, though: The IT article says “The garda had been involved in the prosecution of both women”, which, even if the garda didn’t mean it to, probably compelled the woman to consent.
Was it? Or was it I better have sex with him so he goes easy on the evidence in the court case so i don’t have to serve as long/any time? That is not consensual.
What about the 2 Guards from Dublin on a Christmas night out in Limerick looking for prostitutes, banging on the wrong door.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/three-gardai-involved-in-alleged-brothel-bustup-at-christmas-party-29840776.html
Cretins.
Ah sure that’s consensual too! Not like they could arrest them if they didn’t. . oh wait
Yeah.. the batin’ they gave the young fella down down at the chicken hut was consensual too.
Going for chicken, meeting the same pigs who were banging down your door earlier .. what were the chances?
These ones are still serving too.
When RTE reported this case they didn’t mention the man’s name (it’s Magnus Meyer Hustveit, by the way).
It’s unprecedented for state media to run a news item on a convicted rapist and not name him, I wonder why?
“It’s unprecedented for state media to run a news item on a convicted rapist and not name him”
That’s not true. The rapist is often left anonymous to protect the victim. In this case she had waived anonymity though so RTÉ should have had no issues naming him.
What was really weird about that case was that the victim wouldn’t have known about the rape had her ex not written to her and told her about it. Did his conscience get the better of him or was he taunting her?
Well she found semen on herself on one occasion and felt as if she had been penetrated on another so she did know something untoward had happened before the email exchange (from what I gleaned from the papers).
Cripes. Wondering if his motive in confessing, if indeed it was a confession, was a mitigating factor when in came to sentencing. Apparently he moved on to a committed relationship pretty quickly. I imagine these revelations would be quite hard to stomach for any subsequent girlfriend.
Ah you’d be grand lilly, just sleep with one eye open
Mick Flavin needs to get over himself.