79 thoughts on “Boil Notice

  1. Thierry AnMhí

    Just got my second IW bill in my email today……I paid it the first time, having serious second thoughts about paying this one….does that make me a bad citizen Mr Kelly?!

      1. Thierry AnMhí

        Didn’t want to get stung for fees and charges like I did with the LPT. At the time the Govt were coming out with all sorts of threats and how they would get payment. I’ll be a little braver this time. Looking forward to the General Election.

        1. 15 cents

          unfortunately, you are an example of how those threats worked. they were designed to frighten and intimidate people. but as long as we all stick together they cant come after us all. and they cant legally make you pay either, just ignore eveything that comes in from them.

    1. Clampers Outside!


      I got mine. I told them they could take it out in the first week of the month and that’s it. Had to jump through hoops and big long phone calls and eventually I said leave it, see if works out. IW went for the money… no funds were there… so later I got an updated form and I put my preference on that, first week of the month or feck off…. that was over six weeks ago…. nothing has happened. Nuttin’ paid like…. the dumb fupps couldn’t even get money out of those willing to cooperate with them…. an absolute joke.

      I’d like to know more, so I can be a citizen…. and go bug huntin’


        Gud for you clamps, we all know deep down your inner rebel has never been that strong, ye know..ye talk a good game but when push comes to shove, well…Its O.K. were all susceptible to Noonan’s cheeky grin. So sometimes its easier just to submit, what with all the daily first world decisions already cluttering your plate.

        1. Clampers Outside!

          Thanks Wodga, by the way, I’ve always said that we need an upgraded system for water, I’ve always said that we should pay for it, I’ve always said the current collection system of adding bits to random tax is stupid, I’ve always said IW is a fiasco, I’ve always said I want it protected from privatisation, I’ve continually lambasted IW for its incompetence… but I’ve never once said, “we already pay” because even if we do, it’s not enough and a stupid unaccountable way to pay for such an important resource… what I am saying is, I know we have to pay, I never said I wouldn’t, what I don’t like is paying into the IW quango.

          If anything, I’ve been consistent, “no push come to shove” sh*te at all.

          I marched on quite a number of IW protests, I never marched against meters, I never marched against paying, I marched against the quango, the intended readiness of IW’s set up for privatisation (that won’t happen now, I believe), and I marched against what I’ve seen in other countries where costs for water have sky rocketed.

          I hope you too have been consistent.. no pushin’ an’ shovin’ at all.

          1. Zuppy International

            We already pay for water. Have done for decades. Where has all that money gone?

          2. JC

            March all you like Clamps, By you paying the bill or attempting to you were supporting IW. You are not a rebel and quite frankly all your bravado about not supporting IW or the collection of this tax is just hot air.

            Payment is acceptance, You should accept that you promoted IW by your actions and ditch the faux protest argument you just made.

          3. ReproBertie

            “We already pay for water. Have done for decades. Where has all that money gone?”

            Taxes? I paid them last year!

          4. Clampers Outside!

            Hi Zuppy, it’s gone on barely maintaining a system on the verge of collapse, a system that was built in the Victorian era and is currently losing over 40% of its product. The EU has been onto successive Irish govts since the early 80s to fix what was considered then to be a broken and not fit for purpose system… if money was invested back then, then maybe the pittance we pay today might actually have gone some way to at least maintaining it better, but that didn’t happen. Instead FF (for the vast part of those 30+ years) kicked the can down the road.

          5. Zuppy International

            Apparently it has cost billions to set up the failed Quango that is Irish Wasters. Why was that money no put into fixing the allegedly leaking water infrastructure system instead of ‘fixing’ the knowingly dodgy procurement system that continually lines the pockets of the usual suspects?

            The people have paid and the state has failed.

            The people have refused to pay again. Why would they give even more money to incompetents, liar and thieves?

    1. Brian Hession

      Abolition of IW for starters. The government call a general election, because they have failed, failed and failed. The public vote on a number of oprtions, like a real democracy, e.g. one option could be a combination of constitutional protection against the utility’s privatisation; local council administration of bills and service; an affordable standard charge of €100 per annum; meters are used to monitor overuse, and those who do are charged accordingly. Make it common knowledge what these cretins have cost us with their hare-brained scheme so we know never to vote for the incompetence again.

      1. Steve

        Ok Brian let’s work that through. Call for a general election because they have failed. That’s your opinion, I think the current government have done a decent job in office. But a general election is less than 6 months out so everyone will get their say on that. I look forward to a bit of democracy myself.

        Abolition of IW. Ok so we revert to LA administration. Do you think it’s efficient to have 31 different SCADA / telemetry systems across they country?? Chlorine procurement / DBO contracts to be negotiated individually by LAs??

        We could revert to the system in NI where Northern Ireland water costs are fully covered by stormont. That has been a disaster for capital investment because stormont has a habit of cutting budgets last minute in the water sector. This in turn harms planning and efficient investment. Have a read of the NIAUR website, some interesting reads.

        Or we could turn to the Scottish model where SW costs are funded through the council tax. Payment rates are close to 100% and they have an excellent water network, however with a flat charge based on Scottish property prices from the mid 90s there is little incentive for conservation. That might be ok for people though.

        Or we could look to england & Wales. Privatised system with excellent water network. One of the best in the world after years of efficient investment driven by EU requirements.

        Your €100 flat charge would result in about 160 million being collected from domestic households. The water system costs about 1.2 billion at present. Do you think it’s fair to source the other circa 1 billion from businesses??

        Constitutional protection for IW?? Perhaps, but why not put ESBN and GNI into the amendment as well?? Water is needed for life. So is electricity and gas supply. Unless you are happy to go back to candles while drinking your treated water from a constitutionally protected water company.

        The choice is yours!!!!! (Big fan of blind date)

          1. classter

            That’s a very interesting idea actually.
            Why is it better than Irish Water’s current status?

            Average household charges are approx £450.

          2. Fine Ali gets it

            I’m no expert but:

            “We finance at a fraction of the industry cost, and that saving has gone to pay for the customer dividend so we’ve reduced customer bills every year for seven years.”


            “being a social enterprise is a very important part of Welsh Water’s success because the people who work in the water industry feel it’s a vocation”

            sounds a mite better than the predicted sky rocketing bills we’ll get…

        1. Zuppy International

          “I think the current government have done a decent job in office”

          Spot the Blueshirt.

          1. Steve

            FG voter alright , have done, and will continue to do so, for decades. Debate me on the merits of my arguments presented above ye big sap, not on who i vote for.

        2. ollie

          Steve, your’e very selective with your comparisons.
          Should we adopt the Detroit model where those who can’t pay are cut off?
          Should we adopt the French model where a meter install costs €50?
          Should we adopt the irish water model where staff salaries are twice the Uk rate, where staff numbers are twice the UK rate, where 120 managers drive audi A6s

          You have did a fine job googling water provision in the UK but no analysis of the current irish model which we all know won’t change, other than the cost moving quickly towards the original €1,000 a year.

          The ownership of the companies shares shouldn’t matter and the arguement should not be about ownership or funding, the management team in place is key however the iw management team has a history of spectacular failures (Eyre Square, incinerator project, to name 2).
          So, the flaws with irish water are poor management, a board made of of fine gael hacks, excessive government interfering, overpaid and surplus staff, wastage of taxpayers money (eg €350 per meter install Vs €50 in other countries), and a public who have finally woken up and are not prepared to be shat on any longer.

          1. Steve

            thanks ollie. not following you at start though. everyone agrees nobody should be cut off, so no we should defo NOT follow Detroit example. Nobody ever advanced that here, although the original proposal for “limiting” supply /reducing pressure was stupid. even in privatised E&W disconnections are illegal.

            Apologies I’m not familiar with the french model but maybe the actual cost of the meter is recovered between the upfront charge of 50 euro with the remainder being recovered through the standing charge on the bill. In the same way that the cost of a new meter from ESB networks is recovered through the electricity standard charge. I think this is the best idea for recovery of costs of meters, long term low charge from your standing charge.

            I’ve seen you quote the staff salaries before, apologies I can’t get back to ye on that one because I don’t know what category/ industry you are comparing against.

            On staffing numbers you see broadly correct , in Scottish water there are 2000 approx staff for a population of 5 million. IW/ the LAs combined water staffing is approx 4000 for a population of 4.5 million. Should IW have ignored the SLAs and fired 2000 LA staff on the 1st of January when it took over to bring numbers down?? I’d say the unions might not have been happy, LA staff would have went on strike id imagine and ireland would have been boiling it’s water over the late winter of 2014 until union staff were re-installed and industrial relations were repaired. SW had similar numbers at their amalgamation in 2000. What did SW do get numbers down I hear you ask…long term progressive voluntary redundancies programmes. No reason why that can’t work here.

            I’ve seen the IW carpark, trust me there aren’t 120 A6s in there…it’s mostly A7s, GTDs and M5s.

            On the board/ governance I agree change is needed. Fresh voice, fresh face, somebody from the outside. Someone from Scottish water, a country which saw a similar transition to ourselves on water services, would be my choice.

            Good to debate!!!

          2. classter

            Ollie, I asked for the stats to back up your claims yesterday. Any luck finding them since you are repeating them today?

      2. classter

        The problem is that the local councils are (with some isolated exceptions) absolutely useless.

        They preside over tiny admin areas, they are riven with conflicts of interest, they have very little real technical expertise and have done a poor job in the past.

        ‘we know never to vote for the incompetence again.’
        Who are you voting for instead?
        Now that FG/Lab are ruled out and FF have proved themselves beyond incompetent (I don;t think there’s a word for how badly FF have soiled their bib). All you’re left with is a handful of independents, SF and the AAA – none of whom have any experience.

        1. Zuppy International

          “All you’re left with is a handful of independents, SF and the AAA – none of whom have any experience”

          More Blueshirt talking points.

          1. classter

            I was responding accurately to a specific point but thanks for your worthwhile contribution.

            Have you figure out Newton’s Third Law yet, you complete spoofer?

          2. classter

            Which is the strawman here?
            You effectively used the FG troll line on me for mentioning the fact that there is no political grouping available for election with proven competence.

            And you did expose a curious mixture of ignorance and arrogance with your silly attempt to quote Newton’s Laws of Motion.

          3. Zuppy International

            Still at it (reintroducing your fallacy from another discussion). You Blueshirts don’t know when you’re beat.

        2. Fergus the magic postman

          “All you’re left with is a handful of independents, SF and the AAA – none of whom have any experience.”

          Nowhere even close to a good enough reason to keep forgiving & voting in the same old parties.

          Labour used to stand for something, not long ago in fact, and always got my vote. Those days are gone and they’ll never get my vote again while Burton and/or Alan Kelly have anything to do with the party.

          1. classter

            I’m not suggesting that one should vote for FF/FG/Lab but merely responding to Brian Hession’s strident comments about ‘cretins’ and ‘ never to vote for the incompetence again.’

        3. Joe the Lion

          You’re a complete and utter spoofer yourself

          Some local councils are outstanding in very particular ways like Kerry in promoting tourism and Wicklow in managing their planning policy.

          Mindlessly dismissing their competence with broad sweeping statements makes my point that you’re a tiresome windbag who speaks mostly to hear the sounds of his drone

          1. Cluster

            You may well be right about me, Joe, but you haven’t quite managed to cleanly catch me out being stridently wrong the way Zuppy exposed himself.

            I don’t dispute that some councils perform well at some things. The problem is that the competence at various areas varied (and varies) hugely within councils and between councils. You can see it, for example, in the quality of secondary road maintenance as you cross some county lines. You also have boundary issues where councils have perverse incentives not to consider their area holistically – ref Limerick City versus suburbs.

            There has been serious problems with corruption and nepotism in many councils and they receive very little outside scrutiny.

            Go around the country and see how small towns and villages have been destroyed by stupid, cack-handed planning decisions, see how most councils don’t even keep to their own rules on one-off housing.

            See how poor even DCC has been in all sorts of ways – the cash-cow area around the docks is full of litter most of the time.

            In an age of greater specialisation, of more exacting environmental standards and greater public education, demands and scrutiny, it is difficult to see how, even with the best will in the world, councils which could be serving populations of 30,000 or 55,000 could consistently maintain the requisite technical competence in all sorts of activities.


    The Q now is, are fg/lab considering abolishment of iw to save themselves come lecy time

    1. 15 cents

      i dont think so. theyre far too arrogant, and they dont know what the public think because they dont listen to us. my prediction is, theyll keep pushin it, the amount of money poured into it will be enormous, then theyll be out of power (please god) after the GE. then whoever is in after them, will hopefully abolish IW. but theyll still need to make up the money that FG/Lab pumped into it, so it might ome out of tax just until its covered.

  3. brownbull

    I don’t understand why all the anti-water charges people are celebrating this. Eurostat’s main concerns are that Irish Water is not charging enough and is not fully privatised and independent – is that what the anti-water charges campaign wanted? If anything this deconstructs many of the anti-water charges claims about Irish Water. Many of the campaigners said they were not against water conservation or paying charges but the privatisation agenda and paying too much, if anything this shows their concerns to have been allayed. Irish Water may have been very badly thought through and set up but is there another suggestion as to how to repair, improve and expand our infrastructure and prevent further wastewater pollution?

    1. ollie

      Good spinning, brownbull. Fine Gael would like to offer you a position on their spinning wheel.

  4. ollie

    Besides the marriage referendum (which by the way has not been legislated for therefore single sex marriage is still illegal), can anyone tell me what this government has achieved through poilcy development and implementation?
    I don’t mean blindly applying the policies of Fianna Fail.

      1. ollie

        Such as what Steve?. By the way, the use of “lLlz” makes you look like a total moron,

    1. swoon

      Enda has a ‘mandate’ from the people of Ireland Ollie so don’t you forget that, and that ‘man’ works as an executioner and the ‘date’ is no later than 3rd April 2016.Yeeehaw

    2. pedeyw

      In fairness, the reason the same sex marriage legislation hasn’t gone through is because of two pr***s appealing the decision of a legal challenge that they lost in June. As far as I know the legislation is ready to go.

      1. Kieran NYC

        ollie knows this.

        Rationality doesn’t come into it. He just likes to Raaaaage at his computer.

  5. 15 cents

    as if europe are guna save us .. water tax was their idea, so they could reel in more money. they wont let their fateful lapdog Enda do anything else but presist with IW.

    1. classter

      Save us from what?

      The same ‘tax’ endured by the residents of almost every single other developed, western country?

  6. Notsayin

    Just wondering are people aware that Local Authorities still carry out all the maintenance work for Irish Water, which occurs through a very odd system…… issue is raised with the LA, is sent to IW who then send it back to the LA as a job of work

    1. fmong


      No one talks about it but Dublin Council water and drainage department still very much in affect, IW is just another layer of admin on top of them a the moment, and a poor one at that.

      Dublin Council could have made VAST improvements to the water works if they’d been given a fraction of the money that’s been sunk into Irish Water to date.

      It would still be relatively simple to reverse, reinvent the moment spent on expensive advertising campaigns and ‘consultants’ into the DCC, set reasonable rates or council charges and have an improving water system that belongs to the Irish people, not just FGs mates and buddies…

      1. classter

        Compare the NRA’s procurement & management of primary roads compared to the local authorities who used to do that task. It makes sense to centralise some things, especially when you have a small, relatively sparsely populated country.

        1. Zuppy International

          “It makes sense to centralise some things”

          Makes it easier for the Cronies to take the cream off the top.

          1. classter

            I would say the exact opposite.

            See the scrutiny being (rightfully) applied to IW now & the pressure they are under.

            In all the years of water being dealt with (inadequately) by local authorities, was a tiny fraction of this scrutiny applied to any single local authority? Even when there were boil notices? Even when there were rumours about the actions of county managers/engineers/architects/planners?

            Why did the leakage rates vary so much from place to place? Why did some local contractors get so much council work in some places? Why did nobody asks these questions?

      2. ollie

        Correct. The 1 billion spent to date on meter installation and IW setup costs would have fixed a lot of pipes.

        1. Steve

          So ollie that isn’t correct. The total ware meter programme is 570 million. They haven’t installed all the metes yet so they are nowhere near 1 billion of expenditure

  7. martco

    haha very good

    Pat Rabitte-In-The-Headlights just been on Newstalk giving his considerable opinion about IW….in a nutshell they’re going for the line that Eurostat has no business meddling in what FG/LAB/IW are trying to pull off here

    Pat should keep his bullpoo for election time, isn’t that what you tend to do Pat, eh?

  8. Continuity Jay-Z

    Fianna Fail are yer only men.

    Grabs banjo and accordian.

    I must now pen a chantey to the Soldiers of Destiny.

  9. Continuity Jay-Z

    If it’s land ya have with plenty of frontage
    Put in FF and get to the bank for the mortgage
    Them oul bucks in blue are done and dust
    giving grants to dinny to clear the pipes of rust.

    We’ll head down to Galway and drink a pint or three
    It’s you and me drinking Bertie’s beer
    We’ll round up the oul tiger and get the digger on site
    we’re back in the game with Fianna Fail, yer alright

    We’ll get rid of the charges for the water and the bins
    We’ll get grants for developers; they make amends
    There’ll be no more Labour waffle or Blueshirt bluff
    The Soliders of Destiny will turf them out be the scruff

    We’ll head down to Galway and drink a pint or three
    It’s you and me drinking Bertie’s beer
    We’ll round up the oul tiger and get the digger on site
    we’re back in the game with Fianna Fail, yer alright

    It’s been far too long without the SSIA
    Neara man has a shilling to go on holiday
    We’ll strike peace with the unions and get them onside
    We’ll reopen Anglo bank and leave regulations to one side

    We’ll head down to Galway and drink a pint or three
    It’s you and me drinking Bertie’s beer
    We’ll round up the oul tiger and get the digger on site
    we’re back in the game with Fianna Fail, yer alright

  10. squiggleyjoop

    If Irish Water is scrapped then Enda’s friend in the pub can finally relax and enjoy his two pints.

  11. Truth in the News

    The editorial writers have finally got in on the act and put pen to paper
    wait till the electorate put pen to paper, thats when the political collerlateral
    damage will be done….Irish Water is an artifical entity contrived without much
    thought, but with the ultimate intention of selling off the water assets of the
    country….what has happened is the citizens have bolted and will not accept it, how
    could they when they pay for it couple times already….what we have here
    are austerity taxes to pay for bank debts that the Irish Government guranteed
    which are really the losses of German and French banks and which are insured
    anyways….there needs to be an all out campaign to stop the drain of Billions
    out Ireland which is dressed up as property tax, universal social charge, water
    tax and remove from office all those who support this wastefull excercise.
    Incidently Irish Water serves no purpose at all as water and sewage services
    by their very nature are decentralised and local….Kenny was to get rid of Quangos, look what he created, the little emperor has been trotting around nude
    for ages

Comments are closed.

Sponsored Link