30 thoughts on “Was It For This?

  1. Davos

    There should also be a line under Northern Ireland as ‘Great Britain’ comprises the nations of England, Scotland and Wales only.

    1. classter

      No, it wouldn’t. It was coined with specifically political intentions in the 16th Century. The political landscape has changed. The term is about as relevant as New Amsterdam or Rhodesia.

      Why are so many Irish people so craven? The UK govt doesn’t even use the term. A host of international geographical & media outlets advise against the term. Yet, you’ll always find some Irishman to express support.

        1. classter

          I don’t need to call the group of islands anything and even if I did there are all sorts of terms available (Britain & Ireland,…) that don’t involve kowtowing to Elizabethan imperialism.

          Anyway the term is usually (though not always) taken to include the Channel Islands which is not part of the geographical archipelago. So aside from anything else, the term is ambiguous as well as offensive.

          What collective name do you have for Australia & New Zealand?

      1. Tidy Dave

        But “British Isles” really should be seen as a geographical term. Just as the “Irish Sea” is labelled as being Irish, despite the fact that it finds itself touching several other countries. If you look at it from this view, it may sit a little better.

        1. classter

          The Irish Sea is also named from the perspective of the powerful country. The ‘Irish’ part is what differentiates it from any other sea surrounding the island of Britain.

          Anyway, there is a big difference between a sea (population 0) and an island (population 6.4million).

          As I have explained above, it is accepted that the term was coined by John Dee, with political motivations. It was part of a campaign to justify & legitimise the Tudor conquests. The reason it remains in use at all, is largely British nationalism. There has been a war between editors on Wikipedia for years whereby Irish editors try to remove it or at least restrict the term to ‘arguably’ necessary uses. Instead they are outvoted by British editors and the term is shoe-horned into a huge number of articles involving Ireland.

          Also, the area covered by this ‘geographic’ term is pretty ambiguous. It often includes areas politically linked with the UK but not geographically linked such as the Channel Islands.

        2. classter

          The Irish Sea is also named from the perspective of the powerful country. The ‘Irish’ part is what differentiates it from any other sea surrounding the island of Britain.

          Anyway, there is a big difference between a sea (population 0) and an island (population 6.4million).

          As I have explained above, it is accepted that the term was coined by John Dee, with political motivations. It was part of a campaign to justify & legitimise the Tudor conquests. The reason it remains in use at all, is largely British nationalism. As an example, there has been a war between editors on Wikipedia for years whereby Irish editors try to remove it or at least restrict the term to ‘arguably’ necessary uses. Instead they are outvoted by British editors and the term is shoe-horned into a huge number of articles involving Ireland.

          Also, the area covered by this ‘geographic’ term is pretty ambiguous. It often includes areas politically linked with the UK but not geographically linked such as the Channel Islands.

    2. cluster's deranged alter ego

      No, it would not. It was coined with specifically political intentions in the 16th Century. The political landscape has changed. The term is about as relevant now as New Amsterdam or Rhodesia.

      Why are so many Irish people so craven? The UK govt doesn’t even use the term. A host of international geographical & media outlets advise against the term. Yet, you’ll always find some Irishman to express support.

    3. Cluster

      No, it would not. It was coined with specifically political intentions in the 16th Century. The political landscape has changed. The term is about as relevant now as New Amsterdam or Rhodesia.

      Why are so many Irish people so craven? The UK govt doesn’t even use the term. A host of international geographical & media outlets advise against the term. Yet, you’ll always find some Irishman to express support.

        1. classter

          I tried to reply on my PC – didn’t work
          Gave it a go on the ipad – didn’t work
          Then tried my mobile – didn’t work

          Those related names are all whatever name I saved way back when on each device.

          I did once, years ago now, have another unrelated name on Broadsheet, which I ditched after giving up personal information about myself. Later I adopted cluster and retreated back into internet anonymity, safe until somebody hacks into Broadsheet & doxxes us all

    1. Kieran NYC

      Someone wrote a long and silly article on the Graunid yesterday. I skimmed over it and it was as pointless and woeful as you’d expect.

  2. meadowlark

    Ah yes but this the nation whose politician called us failed potato farmers and thinks that our national symbol is a shamrock etc etc. So… lets not hope for any kind of cultural accuracy here.

    Another shrimp on the barbie, anyone?

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