Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams with the party’s new TDs at Leinster House this morning
Further to the yesterday’s post about media bias during General Election 2016.
Evan writes:
Having read your article on #VinB with Mick Clifford on media coverage through #GE16 here is a discussion from The Pat Kenny Show last Friday morning on Newstalk. It annoyed me so much I transcribed it (as below) and lodged a complaint about it.
This was a five-minute discussion with participants which included Pat Kenny, outgoing Independent Senator Averil Power, former political editor of the Sunday Independent and Renua communications director John Drennan and political commentator, former advisor to Bertie Ahern, Paddy Duffy.”
Grab a tay.
Pat Kenny: “Just, a by the way, in terms of Sinn Féin, because they are largely irrelevant to this discussion because they are not going to go into coalition with Fianna Fáil or with Fine Gael. What do you think did for their prospects, I mean they’ve improved their number of seats but at 13 whatever it was, point eight per cent was it, or something certainly less than 14%. It was not up to their expectations. I mean was it? They had no ambition really on the USC which would put money back in people’s pockets or was it the Special Criminal Court or?”
Averil Power: “I think it was two words Gerry Adams… was their leader.”
Paddy Duffy: “Yeah, I think it was the faulty arithmetic of Gerry Adams (A), and (B), no middle sector worker or higher is ever going to let Sinn Féin get near their pay packet, okay. Because they don’t believe in that crazy economics that they have, okay, and then all the other attendant things, Mairia Cahill and all of that sort of stuff and the sort of, the, the stronghold that the Central Committee has on the party as a whole, particularly the women who were quite obviously ill at ease during many of those days, and their Deputy Leader in particular”
Pat Kenny: “Micheál Martin has always been pushing the line that Sinn Féin, Dublin, is controlled by Belfast, is that…”
Duffy: “Well, obviously I don’t personally know, so, this is what people think…”
John Drennan: “It certainly was, it was certainly a strong image was were you letting the Army Council into the cabinet rooms of the State via the back door, if you voted for Sinn Féin? I think another thing to possibly bear in mind is that, was it Ruairí Quinn had a very interesting piece during the middle of the campaign, in the Irish Times on Saturday, where he talked about Labour not really being a party of working class people, and that…”
Duffy: “I agree with that.”
Drennan: “…and what struck me was that, to a certain extent, Sinn Féin are not a party of working class people, in that, in that they have sort of, they’re very opposed or seem to have great difficulty in the sort of tax cuts that would improve the lives of working class people and they don’t understand that working class people aspire to improve their lives, aspire to better education, better services, they’ve no concept of that and I mean if you look at the track record of Sinn Féin in West Belfast and the, the, the almost Stalinist…”
Duffy: “The state of it, the state of it..”
Drennan: “…the East Germany economy that Gerry Adams presides over whilst he flies over in airplanes to get his teeth done in America. They do not…they are not a party with which the working class identify with. And I think they were very much squeezed in this election too, by the multitiude of options that were, such as Averil herself in Dublin Bay North, that was competition to Sinn Féin that they would not have expected and would not have wanted.”
Kenny: “But as part of their overall project they have improved their number of seats. They are obviously hoping that Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael will go into one massive coalition which will allow them to be the largest party on the Opposition benches, not necessarily the loudest voices because you’ll have your Mick Wallaces and you’ll have all those other people who have made the running in the last Dáil.”
Duffy: “Yes, and the party has quite a quota now Pat, of intellectual young things who are very bright, very sharp, very good, very well trained communication-wise. But it’s the gospel they preach is wrong. The performance is fantastic.”
Kenny: “Well, it has to be said…”
Duffy: “…economically, I mean…. economically, yeah.”
Kenny: “In Dun Laoghaire, when we had our debate in Dun Laoghaire the young Sinn Féin candidate, and I was talking about Gerry Adams being perhaps a liability, a political liability, and I didn’t want to go through the list of charges for fear I would be accused of actually… you know…labelling him and he said to me “well, what are you talking about?”. So then I had to begin, reluctantly…”
Laughter
Kenny: “….but he said “I am a child of the Peace Process”. You know he doesn’t have any memory, he could read about it in the history books but it’s not in his DNA.”
Duffy: “And we have to give them credit, I mean we give them tremendous credit. Gerry Adams, [Martin] McGuinness and all that team and all around them for having brought us from that horrible fratricidal war to where we are – that’s to their greatest credit. Simply we don’t believe any of their economic policies.”
Drennan: “They got us into it in the first place.”
Power: “It’s not the legacy of the Troubles that’s holding them back it’s their modern day attitudes on certain issues like the Special Criminal Court. You know I’ve a constituency that includes Coolock and other areas that have been blighted by gangland crime.”
Duffy: “Yeah…”
Power: “And, and people simply don’t understand Sinn Féin’s attitude on the Special Criminal Court. The notion that you would expect ordinary people to serve on a jury who would go up against these kind of gangsters without protection, people just can’t…”
Kenny: “About half of their own supporters disagree with their policy to abolish the Special Criminal Court and another interesting statistic in one of their polls was that… I think it was 40% of their people didn’t trust them on running the economy…of the people that are going to vote for them…”
Laughter
Duffy: “That doesn’t surprise me…”
Laughter
Kenny: “Anyway I want to read you some of the texts…”
Listen back in full here (part 3).
Leah Farrell/Rollingnews
Is the woman in the white jacket on the right the first splitter since the election?
(Suppose if she’s on the extreme right she might prefer Rénua)
So ‘couldn’t get elected’, ‘never been elected’ and ‘couldn’t get Lucinda elected’ are now experts on electoral performance….sigh.
the brainwash is strong in that photo
Why did it annoy you?
Because it wasn’t complimentary I’m guessing. Unless it’s complimentary it is extreme bias.
*facepalm*
A failed Election candidate; the communications director for a party that didn’t get a seat and Bertie’s “advisor – how many seats did FF get in Bertie’s old constituency again? are discussing a party that increased its vote share and number of seats.
Dinnymedia at its finest.
SF whataboutery at its best!
I’ve read that transcript, and thanks for transcribing it. It’s quite complimentary towards Sinn Fein in many parts, but not in it’s entirety, I see…. but, in all seriousness, what was the complaint about? Not complimentary enough? Not tough enough on SF? What….?
Clampers, you seem like a nice person.
-But your preamble of ‘It’s quite complimentary towards Sinn Fein in many parts…’ does nothing to cloak your agenda.
You didn’t notice the mentioning of Gangland Warfare, did you? Apparently they’re associated with SF.
You didn’t notice the slander of SF voters towards the end? Apparently they’re a bunch of idiots.
Your bubble needs bursting.
Well said memes.
Well done Evan. A future as a Kommandant in the Sinn Fein online activist regiment awaits you.
“they’re very opposed or seem to have great difficulty in the sort of tax cuts that would improve the lives of working class people”
Ugggggghhhhhhhhhhh.
So. Much. Wrong.
Seems spot on to me. What’s the issue?
What’s the actual problem?
This supposed anti-media bias re Sinn Fein gets me a bit. If a journalist asks the SF leader if he was ever a member of the IRA, he says no, which is a lie, and we all know it. Was he ever the head of the IRA? Again, he lies. Was he involved in Jean McConville’s murder? Again, he says no, so he lies. So, if you’re a journalist, or an editor, you have a problem from the get go. It’s worrying that so many people think that these lies can be allowed, and we all just have to let him away with it, or just forget about it and carry in as normal. Anyone who lies so often, about such serious issues, is going to get a hard time from the press, and as head of Sinn Fein, as the leader, he’s going to take them down with him. If you’re not going to be honest, don’t expect a free ride from the press. That’s my 2cents on the matter.
+1
SF will never get beyond minority support with the current party elders in power. Too many skeletons in the closet. Plus the perception of economic incompetence. They’ll be far more palpable to people when someone who is untainted, and viewed positively by neutrals (ie Pearse Doherty or similar) takes over.
This whole “Where you in the IRA?” thing always seems weird to me… I’m not saying he was or he wasn’t and I have no view on him really being in it or not in it, but it always strikes me the way people keep asking him that and people like you (no offence to you) say he is lying. I’m not trying to be facetious about this or anything but is there public knowledge somewhere that I have missed that shows he was in it? I mean, if he *was* in it, surely to God that would have come out donkeys years ago? All the British spies of the day in the IRA and all the IRA informants for Britain, the Loyalist sides that he would have been fighting against and 30+ years of journalism, surely one of them would have gotten concrete proof that he was in it? Like would it not totally be in their interest to show this proof as it would discredit him totally.
Again maybe I’m missing something blatantly obvious and as I say I’m not opinionated on SF one way or t’other really, I just have always found it so strange that he is always asked the same question over and over and that Joe Bloggs always says, “well we know hes lying”. What I mean is I can’t understand how that it wouldnt have come out yet by a journalist or someone else?
Its like the old saying, A sure sign the moon landing wasn’t faked, is the fact that the Russians admitted they were defeated.
Enda Kenny lied to the Dáil about Seanad appointments. If the principle is that we shouldn’t elect politicians who lie, then I fear we might have an empty house.
Pat Kenny, who gets paid hundreds of thousands, criticising a party that was going to tax him proportionally more is a bit rich, if you’ll excuse the pun.
And again, the absolute certainly with which right-winger dismiss left-wing or progressive tax regimes, while the right-wingers they implicitly defend have overseen the economic ruination of the state… And m*r*ns lap it up, as if what Enda Kenny or Michael Martin says on the economy is in any way more intelligent than what Adams says. It beggars belief.
Morons = people who don’t vote for Trots or Shinners. Got it.
If it’s not broken, don’t fix. Return Fianna Fáil to finish off the great job they started.
All lies are equal…. when the lie you are defending is worse.
SF lies + murder = FG lies.
Got it.
This is a bit unsettling though. It seems that there is a concerted effort from SF supporters to prevent their politicians from being asked any questions that they are in any way uncomfortable in answering under the guise that it is extreme victimhood.
so you think FF and FG like answering uncomfortable questions?
we will see what sort of response Noonan gives on the NAMA story.
Push him on it.
no one likes being asked such questions. Don’t make you a victim by being asked though.
Noonan won’t give any response on the Nama story.
Far easier for him to wash his hands of it and let the next Minister for Finance deal with it.
He’ll be asked the questions though.
And no one will complain about him being asked the questions.
In fairness I don’t see any blizzard of “victim” comments defending him? I expect he’ll need to explain himself, and if the answer stinks there’ll be consequences. I do note that the calls for his resignation are coming from SF MLA’s, so no reluctance to dish it out.
Similar to the abuse that lad got who questioned Mary Lou on Grafton St.
Step 1 – Avoid his concerns
Step 2 – Abuse him (he’s a banker, a millionaire, a swiss tax dodger etc)
Step 3 – Spread made up rumours (claiming he was a FG TD’s brother)
You can’t question the leadership. It’s a religion they’re signing up to with Pope Adams as the figure head.
It’s Step 1 and Step 2 of your very correct post that worry me. There’s an aggression and nastiness and against anyone who doesn’t wholeheartedly endorse SF that reminds me of, I’m gonna Godwin it, the NAZIS!
RE: Step 2
Was he a tax dodger?
RE: Step 3
Who spread the rumour? If you have a link could you post it?
His tax dodging claims was the usual nonsense from SF keyboard warriors on twitter/the journal/facebook etc claiming he was worked for/owned a hedge fund which helped the uber-rich evade tax.
Who started attacking him? Well Sinn Fein’s own online media guy Mark Moloney who also put up an add on their propaganda rag. You can check his twitter timeline for this too with him posting up images of the guy fishing and making claims about his role in previous Banks – basically feeding the trolls that follow him.
http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/25746
You might also note that the I.T. carried an article where FG’s Seymour Crawford clarified that the “concerned citizen” was not in fact his brother given both his brothers were dead – Monday Feb 16, 2015. He needed to do this cause the usual social media rabble were claiming it and Newstalk even listed it in one of its online news article (updated clarification now on line).
So, you can probably find all this yourself out by using google and looking in the usual places the SF online supporters post.
Good man.
good man Andy.
and even if all of those things were true, it wouldn’t make his opinion any less valid.
What was his opinion?
To clarify, no. He was/is not a tax dodger in anyway shape or form.
I am aware of the an Phoblacht article. I am looking for a link to a SF representative claiming the banker was the brother of an FG TD (preferably before newstalk/breakingnews.ie broadcast it, but if you can provide a link to someone who said it after newstalk broadcast it, it would be a start.)
If you can’t do anything other than talk down to me I’ll assume you don’t have a clue.
Of course, An Phoblacht correctly identified him and his previous roles in the banking sector.
It never claimed he was brother of a Fine Gael TD, though Newstalk did!
They talk about SF economic policy like it is ridiculous. FG policy was to reduce tax, increase spending and it will be paid for by the increase in jobs.
Am I the only one who thought SF policy keeping the tax, reapportioning it to the rich and increasing spending on health, education etc, I would rather have less in my pocket and a health service that wont leave me waiting on trolleys to be seen in A&E.
Drennen is an idiot with his “they don’t understand that working class people aspire to improve their lives, aspire to better education, better services” That is what they were aiming for.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/economy-grows-at-fastest-pace-since-2000-1.2567537
they’re very opposed or seem to have great difficulty in the sort of tax cuts that would improve the lives of working class people
As opposed to the sort of tax cuts promoted by Drennan and his party that would have taken from the less well-off, given massively to the better-off, and relied on the magic money tree of “dynamic effects” to close the resulting massive gap in the public finances
About 98% of the electorate saw through those type of tax cuts.
See, poor people are better off with a few euro a week in their pocket, rather than, say, affordable childcare, free primary education, efficient public health services free at the point of use, which of course would only benefit the rich.
Poisonous waffle, shown to be poisonous in the fact that the party he ditched his career to join failed miserably.
Regarding the line of ”all lies are the same” which appears often to be the defence of SF supporters, I say this. While lieing about financial issues is wholly unacceptable which tends to be the lies that FF/FG/L etc. (and lies that SF also make). I believe, and it is my opinion, that lying about being the arbiter of kangaroo courts and the release of paedos and rapists to roam free in another country is a bigger concern.
The two – financial and moral lies – are not the same…. someone being shifty with budgets and finances versus someone who is shifty with kiddy fiddlers being let loose in order to protect ones party.
I’m sorry but it is clear, wholly clear which one is worse, in my book. There is no comparison.
Note: Yes, FF/FG did some despicable acts to protect the finances of religious orders, namely the Catholic Church, a third party.
But in SF’s instance, there is no third party, they themselves are ‘the third party’ that committed the acts.
– SF shifted paedos and rapists around just as the church did;
– SF protected the offenders, just like the church did;
– SF got the offenders off (“expulsion” as Gerry put it, is not punishment), just like the church did;
– SF refused to deal with the proper authorities, just like the church did.
…I could go on.
To say they are the same, what FF/FG did and SF did, is whataboutery and nothing more.
For me the final straw that broke my back was the fact that Sinn Fein put children, and vulnerable women in Ireland at risk of rape and sexual abuse in order to protect their party. And in order to continue that protection they expelled from Northern Ireland to other countries these criminals without punishment resulting, in Ireland alone, 29 cases (Source: Michael Martin in Dáil) being brought before the courts of victims of these expulsions.
I’m not aware of the rape or child abuse victims, whose entire lives are ruined, by financial lies, but I am aware that there are such innocent victims for the lies SF have told.
Yes, these scenarios are awful, mental. Its weird that they dont really come up too often, considering we have an actual victim now in our government in Senator Cahill. He probably should be hammered over that rather than his IRA things and lack of fiscal knowledge. Again its a weird thing from the media.
Do you give any credence to Noonan knowing about the ‘Grace’ case and Shatter not continuing with the ‘House of horrors’ case?
Think you’ve just let your SF keyboard warrior mask slip there Art….as you said yourself earlier “and as I say I’m not opinionated on SF one way or t’other really”. Indeed.
Indeed what? Ease up on the defensiveness there pal, I’m asking from the POV how come all dodginess is not raked over in the same way? I’m not questioning clampers here per se, I’m asking more from POV that if it weren’t for Broadsheet and Gemma, I would never have even heard of these cases. Maybe I just didn’t follow the general news enough.
Is everyone who questions the establishments view of SF in the media automatically a keyboard warrior now? Strange world.
It’s a valid question.
If I may keep my answer simple to make a point…
On Noonan and SF doing the same thing. Yes. Both hiding the truth and prolonging suffering.
But, did Noonan ‘create’ the situation, is he responsible from the beginning, does the buck stop with him as the root cause, no. Ask the same question of SF, the answer is a resounding ‘yes’.
No no, absolutely I agree with you. And also noonan and shatter were doing all their dealings in the public domain (kind off) whereas Gerry knew of dealings in ridiculous secret courts.
I’m more or less just framing all these questions from the point of the original post which was about the bias in our media. If we had a MSNBC to counter act our Fox news, I wouldn’t give a fiddlers really because then at least the nut jobs on both sides could no longer shout ‘comspiracy’!
How did SF create the situation?
Kangaroo courts
…did Noonan ‘create’ the situation…etc,
That’s an interesting choice of words Clampers.
You abdicate one while you castigate many.
You seem to have something to say, but you won’t say it.
-Then again, maybe you haven’t…
In what way are the allegations about kangaroo courts worse than the allegations made in the link below?
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/24/grace-noonan-and-monageer/
What is said of SF and the Kangaroo Courts are NOT allegations…
– Gerry himself said there were “expulsions”
– There is official SF documentation on the kangaroo courts
– Mary Lou apparently apologised for her gross, despicable, spittle fueled screaming at cameras till she was blue in the face, denials of their existence
Ok, let me try that again.
In what way are the things you have said about kangaroo courts above, specifically in relation to the expulsion of paedophiles;
in what way are they worse than what is described in the link below?
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/24/grace-noonan-and-monageer/
I think it’s so weird that you think so many things that are not weird are weird that I think that makes you weird.
Top contribution, brah
Lads, can we not just agree that Gerry needs to step aside for Pearce?
-Arguing over who lies the worst is just pantomime politics.
Imagine if we have another election soon…
Imagine if Gerry stepped down in the run-up…
…imagine…
#TeamMerdyLou
Glad you got the bunny, Clamps =]
Ta Kieran :)