‘They Are More Scared Of Wombs Than The IMF’

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Further to this morning’s reports that seven of the 15 Independents, who were in coalition talks with Fine Gael, are “opposed outright to any constitutional change regarding abortion, while a number of others have serious reservations”.

The Irish Independent reports Fine Gael told Independents it wants to establish “a citizens’ assembly, without the participation of politicians” which would, in turn, make recommendations to the Dáil about the Eighth Amendment.

Fine Gael risks losing votes of Independents over abortion (Irish Independent)

Jeanne Sutton

38 thoughts on “‘They Are More Scared Of Wombs Than The IMF’

      1. ahjayzis

        Bull, it’s fear of the people having their say.

        One can be in favour of a referendum while being pro-choice or pro-life. These troglodytic backwoodsmen are anti-democratic.

        1. Vote Rep #1

          Depends on whether they were elected by troglodytic backwoodsmen who believe the same thing as them. Then they are doing what they were elected to do. Which is slightly more depressing.

          1. ahjayzis

            The independent TD elected on the fifth count in one constituency does not have a democratic mandate to veto a national referendum.

          2. rotide

            Does the same apply to Zappone?

            Does she have the mandate to veto a possible government on the basis of a single issue?

          3. ahjayzis

            The issue is the holding of a referendum – demanding the people be consulted as promised is very different to demanding they not be given a voice when the polls emphatically say they want one.

            Fine Gael, Sinn Fein Labour, the Soc Dems, AAAPBP, the Green Party and many independents campaigned on holding one or setting up the mechanism to lead to holding one.

            Asking the Dail to stick to it’s commitments, and demanding a government jam the spokes of that commitment are different things.

          4. ahjayzis

            Again, she’s arguing that the people be given a voice – which is very different to demanding that they be shut out.

    1. ahjayzis

      Male independents being the stumbling block to the people having their say in a free and fair referendum = bad.

      Do keep up, love.

  1. Rob_G

    Strange that it’s Ireland’s Christian Democrat party that seems to be doing most of the leg-work to advance gay and reproductive rights.

    1. realPolithicks

      Actually it was the Labour party that brought FG kicking and screaming into the 21st century on these issues. You won’t see much action in the upcoming Dail on any of these issues whether it’s FG or FF running the show.

      1. Rob_G

        I agree to an extent, but I think that there was some buy-in from FG. FG showed themselves willing to lose some TDs by supporting the marriage referendum, and I have to say, it’s rare that ‘inspiring’, and ‘Enda Kenny’, appear in the same sentence, but I did think it impressive when Enda (who I’m sure is a fairly devout Catholic) stood up to whichever bishop it was who threatened excommunication during one of our never-ending abortion debates.

  2. Jimmee

    Oh the naivety of the first tweet!

    They (I presume FF and FG) won’t form a Government because they have their own long term interests in mind. Coalition of the two will mean less seats for both of them possible in the next election. Wombs and vaginas? Nobody really gives a s**t.

    1. Vote Rep #1

      Its about the independents demanding no abortion rather then FF or FG. Try reading beyond the first few lines.

  3. eoghan

    Those male independents you refer to were elected by the men and the women of their respective constituencies. Men & women who presumably knew something about their chosen candidates views on a variety of issues.

    Personally, I think a proper Yes / No referendum is long overdue. But the line that these poor, powerless women are being controlled by these evil men to the extent that they have no control or say in how our society got to the point that we’re at is patently absurd.

    1. classter

      I reckon a lot of people voted for an independent on the basis that he or she was not one of FF/FG/Lab/SF.

      But knew little of the individual’s personal manifesto.

      At least with Renua, Labour, SocDems you knew where you stood on the topic – agree or disagree.

      1. ahjayzis

        And now it’s all coming out in the wash – they’re mostly ‘Independent Fianna Fail’ or ‘Continuity Fine Gael’.

        Genuinely independent TDs are ones you’ve probably heard of, it’s the ‘gene pool’ type that have flown below the radar. Parish-pumpers basically, who left their mother-ships but not their loyalties for personal, local benefit.

        1. newsjustin

          I dunno. Take, for example, Michael Collins in a Cork SW. He’s “genuinely” independent and pro-life. Sometimes, TDs just genuinely hold different opinions than we might like. Doesn’t mean they’re faulty, big party agents or geriatrics.

          1. ahjayzis

            But it’s not about pro choice or life – it’s pro referendum or anti referendum.

            The 8th Amendment no longer affects anyone who had an opportunity to vote on it, and a clear majority of the Dail membership stood on giving the people their say.

            Pro-life people should argue for their position, not campaign against a democratic process to either renew or repeal.

  4. Clampers Outside!

    Yeah… let’s blame men…. Nothing to do with the Breda O’Briens and any of the female politicians who are anti-choice. It’s easier to come out swinging at all men :)

    Way to go at keeping/growing the support for the campaign, bunch of muppets. Men and women voted for them ffs!

    1. ahjayzis

      In fairness, they’re all geriatric old rural men.

      I think we’re learning that that demographic does not represent modern Ireland (hello marriage equality) – to have individual TD’s holding a government to ransom over something so utterly, utterly tangential to their own lives is pretty unedifying.

          1. rotide

            I’m not geriatric or rural. I am a man.

            Well spotted. Don’t let me keep you from the pressing crime problem in gotham city.

          1. Lan

            “relating to old people, especially with regard to their health care.”
            48 is old now?
            Or 49?
            Or 50?

          2. ahjayzis

            All members of the Indy Alliance are either beyond or teetering on the edge of pension age.

            3 out of 4 leaders in the debates were above pension age.

            It’d just be nice if the people calling the shots in Irish society actually had to live in that society again once they were done.

          3. Owen C

            3 of the 6 Ind Alliance TDs…

            Kevin Moran 48
            Sean Canney 55
            Michael Fitzmaurice 48

            Yup, all teetering on pensioner status…

          4. Owen C

            In fact, lets break this down further…

            “In fairness, they’re all geriatric old rural men.”

            18 “non party” TDs in Dail Eireann now.

            Of these, 3 are women.
            Of the 15 men who remain:
            Shane Ross and Finian McGrath are from Dublin
            John Halligan had been on Waterford City council as far back as 1999
            Noel Grealish, 59, had been on Galway City council as far back as 1999
            Denis Naughten is 42
            Mattie McGrath is 57
            Michael Healy Rae is 49
            Michael Fitzmaurice is 48
            Thomas Pringle is 48

            In fact, how many of the independents are actually geriatric old rural men? Like 5 or 6 out of 18?

      1. Rob_G

        They were elected by both men an women, however.

        If either FF or FG try and cobble together coalition with independents, expect to see this gridlock repeated ad infinitum over the life of the govt (which would mercifully only about 18 months or so).

  5. DubLoony

    The current talks are about cobbling together a minority FG government that will last for 3 budgets.
    Assuming we don’t have an election in next few months, we will have one in at least 2 1/2 years.
    Repealing the 8th is unlikely to be on the agenda if the govt is on such shaky grounds.

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